Watching Certain People--the police state is here

[spanone]

From 2004 through 2009, in a policy that has gotten completely out of control, New York City police officers stopped people on the street and checked them out nearly three million times, frisking and otherwise humiliating many of them.

Upward of 90 percent of the people stopped are completely innocent of any wrongdoing. And yet the New York Police Department is compounding this intolerable indignity by compiling an enormous and permanent computerized database of these encounters between innocent New Yorkers and the police.

Not only are most of the people innocent, but a vast majority are either black or Hispanic. There is no defense for this policy. It’s a gruesome, racist practice that should offend all New Yorkers, and it should cease.

Police Department statistics show that 2,798,461 stops were made in that six-year period. In 2,467,150 of those instances, the people stopped had done nothing wrong. That’s 88.2 percent of all stops over six years. Black people were stopped during that period a staggering 1,444,559 times. Hispanics accounted for 843,817 of the stops and whites 287,218.

While crime has been going down, the number of people getting stopped by the police is going up. Last year, more than 575,000 stops were made — a record. But 504,594 of those stops were of people who had done nothing wrong. They had committed no crime, were issued no summonses and were carrying no weapons or illegal substances.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/opinion/02herbert.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

[babylonsister]

1. How is this even legal? nt

[Lerkfish]

2. because its a crime perpetrated by the enforcers of criminal laws

therefore they are more lenient on themselves.

[Raster]

6. Who will police the Police?

[Javaman]

17. No one. that's the beauty of the system the police state relies upon.

Honor among thieves.

[spanone]

3. good question...i guess we have no more civil liberties

[Echo In Light]

21. G.Carlin - "Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away; they're temporary privileges."

[lonestarnot]

4. Probable cause, did SCOTUS do away with that too, or is this treatment renewed with the Patriot Act?

[lunatica]

5. To me it shows that authorities are deeply afraid of the populace

It's not just a matter of abusing their role as law and peace enforcers, because evidently no laws are being broken to warrant such action. It's far more indicative of fear of the people they're stopping.

[BeFree]

7. I hate that...

...but at least the cops are getting to know people, rather than just being in a closed society of crooks and cops.

Having been stopped by police about 20 times over the years, it really is not a bother, since only 4 times was I in real danger.

I actually enjoy harassing the cops when they do stop me. I've even told a few they were wasting their time with me - "go find some real criminals".

My advice: if you get stopped and you are clean, be respectful but let them know you know your rights and you won't put up with a bunch of bullshit. If you have something to hide, then kiss ass til they leave.

Good luck!!

[spanone]

8. it's still called america, but it's not the one i grew up with.

[Kievan Rus]

9. Eight years of fascist Giuliani will do this

[Javaman]

18. plus a patriot act, a right wing supreme court, the dumbing down of voter laws, etc, etc...nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. Not limited to New York.

The hidden purpose of "War on Drugs" and seatbelt laws and DUI "checkpoints"
is to stop and search.
We have "checkpoints" galore down here.On highways, on freeways even,
and in our teeny town. On residential streets. They have been doing it here at least since 1993.
The scary part is no one questions the practice.

It is a pattern of getting us used to being under police control. Soon, few people will be around to remember what a pre-police state was like, and no one is getting sufficient education anymore to
realize what the Constitution says.

[Mopar151]

12. "Customs checkpoints", "Motor Vehicle Inspectors"

A regular feature of Northern New England these days - and there always seems to be one around Motorcycle Weekend.
If you have a race car on a trailer, you are likely to be stopped because you may be "operating a commercial enterprise" by racing for prize money, or carrying a sponsor's name. You may be asked to produce "shipping papers" for oil, fuel, chemicals (like WD-40), or even a can of wax, or to produce a "physical card" as a commercial driver.

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. I had no idea.

Slowly the noose is being tightened.

[Mopar151]

24. Yes, we get the DWI checkpoints too.

And I've seen a seatbelt (mandatory in NH under 18) checkpoint in the middle of one of out worst intersections (I-89 + 12A) on a Friday afternoon. Customs/Immigration has taken over a rest area on I-91, with office trailers and the like.

[Barack_America]

11. They do this in Philly too. The goal is to get illegal firearms off the street.

Considering that municipalities are currently unable to set their own gun laws and laws set for urban areas can be no stronger than what's acceptable for rural folks.

Starting this was a tough call for Philly to make and it was initiated given New York's "successes" with the program. In Philly there is supposed to be some cause for the search (i.e. a motion made that would indicate a concealed weapon; dressing inappropriately for the season, possibly to hide a gun). Still, there is no doubt that civil rights are being violated with this policy, yet what is a greater violation of your civil rights than being an innocent bystander caught up in a drive by?

Honestly, I am glad that New York is compiling this data. If civil rights are going to be violated, better that the violations are recorded and analyzed.

[spanone]

14. they are not frisking people in cars, so you can still be a victim of a drive by.

you can have your civil right abused and STILL be shot in a drive by!!!!!!

[Barack_America]

15. I think you know what I meant.

There is clearly overlap between people who walk around with guns and people who ride around with them.

It's a complicated issue that I'm torn on. I'm sure I would be soundly against it if I didn't live in an inner city, where I hear the gunshots and read about their victims.

[spanone]

16. i do, but abusing civil rights is abusing civil rights...we are all presumed innocent

if our bill of rights is to be believed

[Barack_America]

19. I agree, yet I understand the catch-22 that local officials are in regarding gun violence.

State law prevents them from really going after people who are illegally selling these weapons, so their only recourse is to go after the people who are illegally carrying them. And they feel that "stop and frisk" is the only way to get these guns before they are used in a crime.

Both sides have valid points regarding "stop and frisk", IMO. That's why I think that gathering statistics about its implementation and results is so important. If municipalities are going to be violating people's civil rights, they had damn well better be working to balance violations vs. success.

[spanone]

22. i agree too

:thumbsup: :hi:

[Echo In Light]

23. There will always be those who defend/downplay this scary bullshit no matter what

NY? Philly? ...okay, then why do they do the same in Bumfuck, Ia, where there's zero "gun problems?"

[L0oniX]

20. kick