Conservatives have a similar utopian worldview that communists and Marxists have

[ck4829]

They think that if we just get the government monkey off of everyone's backs with tax cuts and deregulation, we'll enter this magical paradise where corporations and the wealthy will police themselves and will be guaranteed to keep prices low because they choose to, everything will look like "Leave it to Beaver" in real life if we go defeat the "evil liberals", if we cut people off of unemployment and welfare, they'll all magically find jobs that can pay the bills, etc.

These guys are our opposition, these same guys who I can't tell if they're just smoking something really weird when they they have this worldview or something else.

[izquierdista]

1. And what do you know about communists and Marxists?

Very little if you see similarities between such opposite world views.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Everything is about money to each of them.

I guess it would be more accurate to say that both share common assumptions. That's something you could even credit Marx with -- dialecticism.

But you are absolutely right in the practical sense. No matter what they share, they are committed to opposing each other, obsessively in many cases.

--d!

[melm00se]

2. all political parties

have Utopian world-view specific to their political ideology.

[Warpy]

6. Liberals seemed to be a little more sanguine and less Utopian

and realized the best way to achieve an economy that worked for everyone was to limit the super rich through a combination of taxation and regulation, always realizing the super rich would fight them every step of the way.

Liberals were the only people to achieve a stable economy. Unfortunately, it's hard to amass a large fortune quickly in a stable economy, so the Republicans couldn't wait to overturn every bit of it.

What we have now is the result. What we had before was far from Utopia, but we old folks knew it mostly worked, something we can't say about the economy now.

[left coaster]

3. You've just pretty much described the last 30 years in America..

..and quite obviously it didn't yield those results at all. The U.S. is a perfect example of a failed socio-economic experiment. Point that out to a conservative in conversation and watch his/her head explode.

[w4rma]

5. Yup. They are idealists. So, when they see BS pulled by DLC types, they don't like it either. (nt)

[blindpig]

7. Slander

Communists and Marxists are anything but utopian, rationality is premium. Marx himself railed against the utopian tendencies of other socialists. They have no intention of letting the corporations and wealthy 'police themselves', the object is to eliminate private wealth.

You really don't know your ass from first base, do you?

[wolfgangmo]

9. I find no difference in your post and in the ranting of those on the RW

Who keep parsing that this repub or that repub is not a TRUE CONSERVATIVE.

[Cal Carpenter]

11. The OPs argument is about as valid a representation of Marx

as the 'conservatives' pushing the idea that Obama is a Marxist. Ya know, if you really want to compare total misrepresentation of someone's social theory...

And 'conservative' is about as vague a term as 'progressive', all sorts of people identify with the term but have different meanings for it.

Whereas Marx was an actual person, who wrote actual books, and if one is literate they can read those books and decide if he was a utopian with a magical paradise (he was not) or a hardcore materialist (he was). He's pretty straightforward and consistent, regardless of whether or not someone agrees with his theory.

[blindpig]

14. Apparently you lack discernment

You probably cannot tell day from night either.

This is the sort of argument used to preclude any variance from the status quo, which serves the ruling class just dandy. Congratulations, you are a tool of the rich.

[anigbrowl]

22. LOLOL

"Communists and Marxists are anything but utopian, rationality is premium. Marx himself railed against the utopian tendencies of other socialists. They have no intention of letting the corporations and wealthy 'police themselves', the object is to eliminate private wealth."

Uhuh. And we all know that corruption or abuse of power is simply impossible in a Marxist economy. I mean, that just never happens. I can personally attest to the fact that communist countries are no more utopian than capitalist ones, though. They just have a different flavor of suck.

[anonymous171]

26. Those weren't true communist societies.

True communist countries are good. If they are not good then they are not communist.

[anigbrowl]

29. Yeah, I guess not

And let's face it, in a true communist society nobody feels any need to consider any other political/economic philosophy, so there's no point in allowing people to waste time on such fruitless discussions.

[anonymous171]

24. I love the tears of communists in the evening. Goes well with almost any dish. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Who would police the Socialist Leaders?

What would be the limit to the perks the "Socialist Leaders" kept to themselves? Is there a historical example you could put forth that shows "Socialist Leaders" living no better than those whose lives they control?

[BaltimoreDemocrat]

8. Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

I've been saying this all along! The far right, libertarians, teabaggers, etc. are living in a fantasy world, no better than communists who believe in a "socialist paradise." It's funny how much the far right looks like the very, very far left...
:rofl:

[izquierdista]

12. Then you need some schooling too

Instead of laughing, you might try reading.

[BaltimoreDemocrat]

16. And this means what?

OK, I'll bite. What's this supposed to mean?

[Cal Carpenter]

17. I think what it means

is that it may behoove people to read Marx before commenting on his so-called 'utopianism', otherwise they might come across as ill-informed and reactionary as the right-wingers who call Obama a Marxist.

My apologies to izquierdista if I have misinterpreted his/her comment...

[Cal Carpenter]

10. Can you quote me the part where Marx talks about a magical paradise?

Thanks.

[Arkana]

13. Their utopia is the 1950s.

Eisenhower was President, McCarthyism ran rampant, women stayed home and cooked and cleaned, and men were the breadwinners.

Also, the n***ers knew their place and AY-bortion was ILLEGAL.

That is their utopia. They want a time machine that will take us back to those days.

[Better Believe It]

15. That's a slander against authentic socialists and socialist organizations

The assumption is made by the poster that all or most socialists are utopians. That is absolutely false.

[Cal Carpenter]

18. C'mon, OP

Hit and run? Really?

[Cal Carpenter]

19. I'd really like to see

the OP address some of the replies, so here's a last-ditch effort kick.

[maryf]

21. another kick for you...

I'd like some replies too...

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

20. The political Spectrum is TWO-dimensional, like a grid.

Conservative & Progressive - these are political & market ideologies. This would be the horizontal grid axis.
Your right or left ideologies determine how you stand on each topic and it's suitability for society.

Authoritative & Liberal - these are political legislative mechanics. This would be the vertical grid axis.
This is the manner in which you guide or enforce your political ideology. A dictator would likely be very authoritative whereas a true direct democracy would tend to be more liberal. Liberal in this sense of the word means "free" like liberty. Not so much liberal as in "politically left".

IMO, the political mechanics of any administration are far more important than the ideology. "Conservative" does not worry me near as much as authoritative. Republicans might be conservative... but they are also extremely authoritative. I'm a bit more anti-federalist myself. Obviously the two dimensions of the political spectrum are not independant... there is some degree of intersection of the different philosophies.

[anonymous171]

23. I've always thought that they had more in common with the "latte liberal" set

They just adore businessmen and (right wing) pastors instead of actors and academics. Same elitist shit for different tastes.

[amborin]

25. absolutely bogus nonsense!

please read up before posting something so imflammatory and inaccurate

[gulliver]

28. Well sort of. Their Utopia is for them.

They think the non-them will just go wherever the hell.