"Neither Sharia, nor coup but fully democratic Turkey,"

[Coexist]

Why can we not bring ourselves to say this about our own government?

This story gives me hope. Hope that there are people in the world that are not afraid to say religion and politics DON'T MIX and we won't let you force the mixture on us.

Influential business leaders expressed their dissatisfaction with the government on Sunday in a statement which called for early elections to "protect secularism and democracy," The Associated Press reported.

The statement by business group TUSIAD said: "The indivisible integrity of secularism and democracy lays the foundations of the Turkish republic, a sacrifice of one for the other is unthinkable. Turkey can healthily emerge from this process by lowering tensions and renewing the will of the nation."

On Sunday at least 300,000 demonstrators gathered in Istanbul, Turkey's largest city, to protest against Erdogan's Islamist-influenced government in defense of the country's secular political traditions, The Associated Press reported. Local media estimated that around one million people took part.

"Turkey is secular and will remain secular," flag-waving protesters shouted as they demanded the resignation of the government and called Erdogan a traitor.

Will Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity burst a vein? How will they reconcile this? People are saying no to religion in their politics - bad thing - with people turning down Islamic rule - good thing. What a delightful conundrum.

[MADem]

1. Democratic, secular, with a dash of military dictatorship, when needed.

Turkey has this cute little system where, if things go too far afield, you wake up one morning and there's a general on your tee vee, telling you not to worry, that the government got a little "too crazy" (be it too LIBERAL, or too CONSERVATIVE) and the general is gonna mind the store until everyone gets over the vapors.

This little system wasn't an issue before they got wrapped up with the EU, though: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2865943220070428?feedType=RSS

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union warned Turkey's military on Saturday to stay out of politics after the General Staff said it was watching the parliamentary election of a new president with concern.

Turkey's secularists believe the ruling AK Party's presidential candidate, Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, a former Islamist, would chip away at the secular state if elected. As president he would be commander-in-chief of the armed forces.

"It is important that the military leaves the remit of democracy to the democratically elected government and this is a test case if the Turkish armed forces respect democratic secularism," said EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehns.

The powerful General Staff, which has intervened four times in the last 50 years to topple governments, issued its statement hours after an inconclusive first round of voting in parliament split Turkish secularists and the Islamist-rooted government....

Quite frankly, there's a lot to criticize about Turkey, but the odd irony is that the occasional military intervention, odious as it may seem upon surface examination, is the one thing that has prevented democracy from slipping away from that nation. Kemal Attaturk was a champion of the democratic system of government, and the military keeps his legacy very much alive. So long as the military is following the "Path of Kemal" so to speak, democracy in Turkey is safe. I gotta disagree with the EU on this one--this system has worked since Attaturk set it up, and the military doesn't STAY in charge--they hand it back. They just insist on a moderate course, not too liberal, not too conservative. Even keel...

[dave_p]

2. Let them govern

The system worked admirably until 1980, but the subsequent Evren regime didn't keep to the old moderate course, it lurched far to the right. The AK's less conservative RP predecessor arose partly in response to that, but now it's pretty much pots & kettles. None of it's done Turkey's prospects for secular development much good. The EU's probably right in thinking the military long ago did anything useful that it's ever likely to. Let the AK have its moment of glory and self-destruct amid the customary curruption & factionalism.

[MADem]

3. I dunno. I guess this is one of those things where there will be disagreement.

The Army is really a silent partner in the whole government, and has higher approval ratings amongst the population than many of the civilian politicians. And they always have been close at hand when it comes to governing, even though they are "subordinate" to the civilian authorities, as they have that National Security Council (aka MGK) role that is described in the Constitution.

Of course, Turkey being a conscription nation, the Army is not a great "other"--it's all in the family.

The EU dictating how the Turks run their show (and it is, de facto, a Turkish decision, because if it weren't, they'd pass specific laws against it) is a bit of a rankle. Really, they'd have to change their Constitution to suit the EU, because it says that the military serves as "guardians" of the democratic principles right in the document, even as they've increased the civilian representation on the MGK.

A conundrum, certainly.

I have a feeling that, EU or no EU, if the country slides too far one way or another, we'll see the same sort of "leaning on" and "cajoling" that we saw back in 1997--a bit less overt, but to the same effect. I just can't see the Army sitting idly by and allowing any situation to go too far afield.