"President Obama is going to alienate every school teacher in the United States."

[Bluebear]

The firings of all of the educators at Central Falls High School in Rhode Island -- and President Obama's comments praising the move -- seems to be sparking a backlash against federal officials among public school teachers far beyond that state.

Support for the fired teachers is being sent from around the country -- and from Canada as well -- and now some are discussing a national march on Washington so that teachers can personally deliver this message to Congress and the Obama administration:

Stop blaming teachers for everything that is wrong with our troubled schools. Leave us alone.

“We feel so beaten down,” said George McLaughlin, a veteran counselor at Central Falls who is one of the 93 people recently told that they would be out of a job at year’s end. His wife, too, will lose her job; she is a chemistry teacher there. The soon-to-be jobless couple has one child in college and another entering this fall.

“President Obama is going to alienate every school teacher in the United States,” he said. “We want to march over to the White House and hand a petition signed by tens of thousands of teachers, even more, that says, ‘Leave us alone. Let us do our jobs.' ”


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/education-secretary-duncan/teachers-discuss-marching-over.html

[Richard Steele]

1. And rightly so. I've seldom been so DISAPPOINTED with anyone as I am with this President.

[Tx4obama]

166. Ever hear of Geoge W. Bush? Obama is a hell of a lot better than most presidents. n/t

[Hissyspit]

186. Can't be disappointed in someone you didn't expect anything from.

Most people here knew some of what to expect from Bush. Finding out that he was even worse and more extremist than maybe expected didn't lead to disappointment.

[icee]

213. No, he is not--!

[Jester Messiah]

223. Wow. I think we're all convinced by THAT dazzling display of wit. [nt]

[icee]

228. Res judicata

[Jester Messiah]

231. For you, maybe.

But I have the sense that you never gave the man a fair shake anyway.

[Name removed]

310. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

219. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

296. Deleted message

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[Forkboy]

220. Nothing sets the bar higher than being better than Bush.

[donco6]

239. And yet, for some it seems to be the end of all arguments. n/t

[QC]

240. Yeah, I guess you would rather have Pol Pot in the White House!1!11!! n/t

[ChiciB1]

352. Oh C'Mon... Pol Pot!! The Comparison With Bush Has Some Merit... But Let's

not get so sarcastic to those of us who see things as THEY ARE, and then walk away scratching our heads because we THOUGHT they were going to be BETTER!! Personally I was holding out for MUCH BETTER, but NOW I don't know what to think!

As I said many times... I Voted For This Man... But This Man ISN'T The Man I Thought I Voted For! And to attack those of us who are seeing things we didn't think could ever happen makes one wonder about those who AREN'T seeing the obvious!!

I may be more to the left than some, but Obama isn't ANYTHING close to being LEFT OR LIBERAL! I'm seeing leaning to the RIGHT these days!

Not good, not so good for me! I guess you don't see things like more and more people are beginning to. What I'm seeing worries me, but we'll find out more and more as times goes by. It would be nice to feel better, but I don't!

[QC]

354. Oh I agree with you. I was riping on the "I guess you want Sarah palin" talking point,

which has really gotten a workout these past few days.

Hell, why stop with Sarah Palin? Why not accuse people of wanting the rotting corpse of John Wayne Gacy to be president? Might as well, since the "argument" is pure foolishness to begin with.

[ChiciB1]

368. Okay... My Bad! Popped Off When I Should Have Shut Up!! Thanks

for correcting me! Never a problem for me when I have to admit I was wrong!

:hi: :thumbsup:

[Enthusiast]

257. I was devastated when

the supreme court awarded Bush the presidency. But I actually voted for Obama. If Obama wants my support in the future he will change direction and quickly. When I voted for Obama I did not vote for a Republican.

[donco6]

274. If only our kids' standard was that low -

All those kids would be proficient and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[femrap]

304. Look at our culture.....

Step back and see what these kids are growing up with. MTV now has shows on being 16 and pregnant! Yeah...it's cool. Calling women 'hos...that's tres cool.

Boys emulate convicts by not wearing belts. Try to run when your pants are falling down. Not good if you're protesting. The violence and degrading pron is everywhere.

I'm glad I'm old.

Go read Chris Hedges new book...'Empire of Illusions' where he looks at today's culture. It is a book of TRUTH.

Americans are now stupid and like being that way.

[donco6]

308. Yes, it's a wonder we can make school relevant to them all.

And I just saw an episode of that MTV show. Just sad.

I'll say it again, to punish teachers for the outcome of an entire community's "efforts" is hugely unfair.

[femrap]

375. I'd rather hold

Murdoch responsible!

Who knew that Teachers would be this nation's new scapegoat????

Unbelievable!

[Name removed]

275. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

305. Deleted message

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[defendandprotect]

318. Heed, former SC Justice Thurgood Marshall's words . . .

"It's not the color of a snake which is important -- it's whether or

not it bites" --

and that goes for gender, as well!!


And another attack on unions -- AFT is a huge union --

[CoffeeCat]

286. Yes, but Bush didn't promise...

...repeatedly to fix healthcare. Obama did.

Bush didn't promise to get the lobbyists and the corporate interests out of government. Obama did.

Bush didn't promise to close Guantanamo. Obama did.

Bush didn't promise to restore Habeas Corpus. Obama did and has TURNED HIS BACK ON THIS!

Bush didn't promise change. Obama did.

Bush didn't promise to do something about No Child Left Behind, nor did Bush point out that
NCLB was an unfunded mandate. Obama did.

I could go on for weeks!

You want us to see the glaring differences between Bush and Obama--when Obama is the one
who has not lived up to his promises and has let down and turned his back on the very
people who voted him into office and donated money!

In that respect, Obama isn't like Bush. Bush never turned his back on those who voted for
him! Bush's policies SUCKED, but at least he was loyal to the people who voted for him!

I feel like Obama has contempt for us!

[Action]

290. To Yes, but Bush didn't promise

Excuse me, but how can you blame this all on Obama like he operates in a vacuum? Where is the blame for the Repubs who only care about destroying Obama and getting back in power? Where is you blame for the Dems who seem shell shocked and not able to use the power we gave them?

Wake up. It is not as simple as you make it out to be.

[donco6]

295. He's the one supporting the move.

And he possesses the power to make changes of his own, but he chooses not to.

[Name removed]

294. Deleted message

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[bkozumplik]

309. So GWB is the bar we measure everyone else by?

Why not choose a bag of rocks or a ham sandwhich or something? Why do we hold ourselves to such crap standards?

[Bluebear]

381. 'Why not choose a bag of rocks or a ham sandwhich or something?'

I like you :)

[ArcticFox]

326. He is not better than most

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The emporer who wears no clothes. He has done nothing for the benefit of average Americans. Sure, he's a great orator, but speeches don't count. They're not action.

[backtomn]

355. Nice try......

What is Obama doing for teachers?? Or students??? I am glad that you are an Obama...homer, but how does that help kids???

[liberal N proud]

202. It is absolutely amazing how quickly everyone forgets the previous 8 years

:wtf:

[Name removed]

215. Deleted message

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[Mike K]

313. Well said!

[defendandprotect]

319. +1000% --- a little union busting here, as well?

[Name removed]

282. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

299. Deleted message

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[defendandprotect]

320. The highest we ever got to unionization in US was 39% ...now I think we're at 8% or lower???

And this is an attack on the largest union -- American Federation of Teachers --

and Obama is doing the dirty work for them --

Government union workers have also been attacked over the last years --

Perhaps some of the real Democrats from the past will come back and lead the way

of this government fakery?

How aobut Bernie Sanders 2012?

[Captain Hilts]

2. Rahm Emanuel made him do it!

[Enthusiast]

260. Really?

That damn Emanuel.

[tekisui]

3. Obama and his shrinking coalition.

I wonder what demographics he is planning on putting together to have a winning coalition in 2012.

[emsimon33]

161. I think he wants to be a one-term president

[Peregrine Took]

303. My sentiments, too. I think he is deliberately alienating his progressive

base (the spark plugs of his campaign) and he wants to end any future attempts at same. I don't think he has much to worry about on that score.

We drove over 100 miles to one of his campaign events back in the day now I, honestly, wouldn't go across the street to see him.

[emsimon33]

389. I walked over 500 miles canvassing and registering voters for him

and I am still paying off on my credit cards all the donations.

Every day he looks more and more like Bush Lite.

[Enrique]

4. i'm sure he's done the political calculations

lose some teachers' votes, but pick up a lot of anti-teacher, anti-union votes and cash.

[laughingliberal]

16. IOW, continue to cater to the corporatists and move further right with more R members of the House

and Senate. I think it's been the plan all along.

[INdemo]

198. It seems like he is a Republican posing as Democrat

I see no difference between Obama and Bush except that Obama is a great politician and gives a great speech.He is no more than a corporate puppet

[roguevalley]

41. teachers are the army and backbone of every democratic local

and state organization there is. good going, Obama.

[WinkyDink]

104. Do you---does HE--- have ANY IDEA how the UNIONS GOTV??! UNIONS win the BIG BLUE states!

If WE sit home, literally, no Democrat will win the WH.

[flyarm]

110. or congressional or senate seats!..or locally or any freaking where!

The unions are the worker bees in the dem party!

Anyone who doesn't know that or understand that is a damn fool!..or has never worked during a campaing..which i think many around here have not.

The entire backbone of any major campaign is the unions in the democratic party! Without them..there is no campaign!

Good going Obama keep fucking the unions..( I am beginning to think that is the plan!!)

[rapturedbyrobots]

143. the dems stopped relying on the unions beginning in the mid-90s

you can thank clinton for that. don't believe all the BS about obama's grass roots campaign...he was floated in by the financial industry that the dem's have been sucking up to since clinton. the next four years are going to be the official divorce between unions and the dems. they can't fund-raise to match the repubs if they stick with the unions. everyone knows it...union-based power politics are soooooo last century.

[flyarm]

148. Not where I am in Florida..they are the backbone of our party and national elections!

They donate their buildings for headquarters of a pres campaign..they are our #1 volunteers! They give the most money and they GOTV big time! And they work the phones like no other! They are the #1 feet on the ground!

[JDPriestly]

156. That is not true in Los Angeles.

I have campaigned with groups of union members, walked door to door with them. They determine what happens in the elections in heavily Democratic areas.

Obama snubs unions, especially the teachers' unions, at his peril. I am beginning to believe he does not want a second term. He is not at all focused on encouraging his base. It isn't just his positions on issues of concern to his base. It is his complete lack of communication about topics of concern to his base.

I've never seen a Democratic president who was such a lousy politician. He makes mistake after mistake. It's maddening.

[avaistheone1]

283. Perhaps it is because his base is not who you think it is.

Obama's base appears to be the huge multi-national corporations judging both by his actions and words since coming to office, and also judging by his campaign donations.

[defendandprotect]

316. This is about destroying the Democratic Party and what's left of its liberal/progressive agenda ...

That's the overall corporate agenda from the highest perspective --

And Obama is doing their dirty work for them --

Breaking up this largest union is a prime goal of the elites --

[icee]

217. I thought of that too. But I think the supporters you assume he will

pick up will not be there. I think they will simply not vote.

[CLANG]

244. Anti-teacher, anti-union folks don't vote for black presidents

[arcadian]

288. Yup, instead they'll just look on as Obama sinks his own ship.

And be glad he's doing it.

[saracat]

5. I can't believe this is supported by a Dem Admin. This is indefinsible.

[tonysam]

43. You have people right on this board pretending NCLB was some kind

of Democratic issue just because the GOP was ABLE TO MILK SUPPORT FOLLOWING 9/11 and the so-called "need" for bi-partisanship in this country. NCLB was GWB's baby, based on the Texas model.

Suddenly, we have the twisting of the facts claiming Ted Kennedy invented NCLB when yes he and other Democrats supported it--right on the heels of 9/11--and never mind he got disgusted later on with the lack of funding.

Then we have more garbage spewed that Obama is "pro-labor" but justifies his shitting all over teachers. They can't seem to grasp the fact Obama is pure University of Chicago neoliberal on this and other issues.

It is INSANE for anybody on a Democratic board to trash public education just because Obama and Duncan have "D"s beside their names.

[neverforget]

126. It is insane but since Obama does it, it's okay with them.

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

6. Were the principals fired? Was the superintendent fired? How about the school board?

If an organization is failing in its mission it is vanishingly rare that the entire blame for the failure lies with the low level workers.

[berni_mccoy]

15. Yes. No. And it was the school board who fired them.

[Fumesucker]

18. Do you think this will turn around the system?

How often is it that an organization failing in its mission is the entire fault of the lower level employees and no fault of upper management?

[redqueen]

I'm wondering if the voters will toss out the school board in the next election.

I wouldn't think they'd be too happy about this.

[Fumesucker]

28. School board elections are all about who is most popular and connected..

We had a case not far from me where the school system lost accreditation thanks to the incompetence and corruption of the school board.

Clayton county is by no means a small or rural one..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/education/29clayton.html

ATLANTA — A county school system in metropolitan Atlanta on Thursday became the nation’s first in nearly 40 years to lose its accreditation, and the governor removed four of its school board members for ethics violations.

The school system in Clayton County, just south of the Atlanta city limits, was ruled unfit for accreditation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, one of the nation’s six major private accrediting agencies, after school board members failed to meet the group’s standards for leading a school system.

An investigation by the agency found that county officials had not made sufficient progress toward establishing an effective school board, removing the influence of outside individuals on board decisions, enforcing an ethics policy or meeting other requirements for accreditation, Mark A. Elgart, the chief executive of the association, announced Thursday at a news conference.

County officials said they were planning to appeal the decision.

[Fumesucker]

30. School board elections are all about who is most popular and connected..

We had a case not far from me where the school system lost accreditation thanks to the incompetence and corruption of the school board.

Clayton county is by no means a small or rural one..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/education/29clayton.html

ATLANTA — A county school system in metropolitan Atlanta on Thursday became the nation’s first in nearly 40 years to lose its accreditation, and the governor removed four of its school board members for ethics violations.

The school system in Clayton County, just south of the Atlanta city limits, was ruled unfit for accreditation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, one of the nation’s six major private accrediting agencies, after school board members failed to meet the group’s standards for leading a school system.

An investigation by the agency found that county officials had not made sufficient progress toward establishing an effective school board, removing the influence of outside individuals on board decisions, enforcing an ethics policy or meeting other requirements for accreditation, Mark A. Elgart, the chief executive of the association, announced Thursday at a news conference.

County officials said they were planning to appeal the decision.

[amborin]

45. per the plan of Obama's pick, Duncan!

[spanone]

109. this town has serious issues...

At one square mile, Central Falls is the state's smallest and one of its poorest communities.


http://www.necn.com/02/23/10/Rhode-Island-teachers-fired/landing.html?blockID=185539&feedID=4215

[dflprincess]

123. And what responsibility were the parents expected to take?

Teachers always get all the blame for a child's failure and the parents' role is ignored.

(NOTE: I am not a teacher)

[Fumesucker]

194. Clearly it is a failure of parents also.

But government has little to no control over that aspect of education, it is more an aspect of culture and the media.

[dflprincess]

302. Government can step in when children are being neglected by their parents

and clearly, everyone is failing these kids.

Holding only teachers responsible gives the parents a pass and that allows them to continue to ignore their kids. At the very least, they should be expected to show up for meetings with teachers when their child is not doing well and, unless they have a good reason for not showing up for such a meeting, they should be fined.

[Fumesucker]

311. So any student who does not meet the standards should have an intervention in their home life?

By the government?

That would be 93% of the students in the school I believe.

[dflprincess]

317. As I said

if the parent isn't showing any interest in their child's education then it is time for someone from outside the family to step in. Teachers are not the only ones responsible for how well a child does in school.

What's going to happen when all the fired teachers are replaced and the results still don't improve?

[Fumesucker]

322. You think there's controversy now..

If government tries to intervene in the home life to that extent it will ignite a social firestorm the like of which this country has not yet seen.

Of course since the money is not and will not be available for anything like the kind of programs it would take it's never going to happen.

These communities are already going broke, they mostly don't have much of a tax base to start with.

[dflprincess]

338. If all parties involved are not going to be held responsible

then it's not right to blame only the teachers.

[Fumesucker]

369. I agree.. But a scapegoat is always necessary, and certainly not always guilty.

You don't think the politicians or the media are going to take the blame?

It never fails that the big wheels find some lower level schmuck or schmucks to take the heat, never anyone at the top.

[dflprincess]

378. That's for sure (n/t)

[frazzled]

"Leave us alone? " That's not an acceptable answer when only 7% of the students...

are achieving basic competency in math.

Something has to be done. I agree that teachers are not wholly responsible for the performance of students. But they also are not free of any responsibility whatsoever for that performance. President Obama has repeatedly praised teachers, and at the same time, admonished parents and communities and students themselves for being part of the problem.

When things are going that fatally wrong at a school, new performance models have to be tried. And if the teachers refuse to get with the program, I think the public is, frankly, pretty supportive of starting over.

I know I'll get assaulted for saying all this. But I believe the union has grossly miscalculated on this one.

[Deep13]

8. +1

[rpannier]

182. Read the article

No teacher or union member said that.

It was a lead in used by the writer -- Kind of like a chapter title

-1

[Chef Eric]

197. According to the article, "leave us alone" is what their petition says.

And one of the teachers is quoted as saying so.

[rpannier]

200. It's not a quote

Support for the fired teachers is being sent from around the country -- and from Canada as well -- and now some are discussing a national march on Washington so that teachers can personally deliver this message to Congress and the Obama administration:

Stop blaming teachers for everything that is wrong with our troubled schools. Leave us alone.

“We feel so beaten down,” said George McLaughlin, a veteran counselor at Central Falls who is one of the 93 people recently told that they would be out of a job at year’s end. His wife, too, will lose her job; she is a chemistry teacher there. The soon-to-be jobless couple has one child in college and another entering this fall.

It's not a message attributed to anyone in the story.

[JTFrog]

204. Huh?

“We feel so beaten down,” said George McLaughlin, a veteran counselor at Central Falls who is one of the 93 people recently told that they would be out of a job at year’s end. His wife, too, will lose her job; she is a chemistry teacher there. The soon-to-be jobless couple has one child in college and another entering this fall.

Was it really that hard to read the very next paragraph? I hope you aren't a teacher. :eyes:

“President Obama is going to alienate every school teacher in the United States,” he said. “We want to march over to the White House and hand a petition signed by tens of thousands of teachers, even more, that says, ‘Leave us alone. Let us do our jobs.' ”

[Bluebear]

10. Evidently, torturers & Wall Street bankers aren't accountable to this Administration, though.

[laughingliberal]

35. Now, you're just being unreasonable

Expecting accountability from Wall Street Bankers! Commie!

[bbgrunt]

154. you got that exactly right...only those on the bottom are

going to be held to account while the fish is rotting from the head.

[jonathon]

276. Excellent and beautiful point.

[Xipe Totec]

13. How about busting up the apartheid ghetto in Central Falls?

When a state with 9% minority population corrals them into six poverty stricken ghettos, Central Falls being one of them with 72% of the population being minorities, you have to wonder if Civil Rights ever succeeded in this country.

[frazzled]

19. I'd be all for that, too

My children attended inner-city public schools in Minneapolis that (at that time) were still operating under a very successful desegregation plan. It was the best education I could ever hope to have gotten for them, and having been highly involved in the schools there, I believe it was enormously successful for the great number of minority and new-American populations as well. Desegregation WORKS, and not just for the minority kids: it's important for middle-class, white kids, too.

Let me just say as an aside: I spent twelve years volunteering 4-5 hours every single week helping to tutor and mentor low-achieving kids (from first grade through 12th grade). I did this for free, and I carved out time from a busy schedule to do it, including planning and preparation at times. I guess one of the reasons the Central Falls story irritates me a bit is that the teachers seem to have been unwilling to devote a small amount more time over issues of contract and compensation. Those of us who really care about helping kids to succeed academically and have devoted our time absolutely gratis have difficulty understanding why these teachers would not want the opportunity to help. Especially during these times of recession, when people have either lost their jobs or are working the jobs of two people because other workers have been laid off, it's not a good time for unions to be so demanding. The public is not all that receptive at this particular moment in time.

[MattBaggins]

138. Nice try..

It wasn't a "small amount of time". It was four or five small amounts of time that added up to a sizable addition to what they were already doing.

[JDPriestly]

159. And some of the time would not have been well spent.

Asking teacher to spend additional time just having lunch with students is not worthwhile. It is very tiring for the teachers. Being in the classroom in which students are not doing well is tiring enough. Teachers don't need more stress.

What people forget is that the problem is not bad teaching in most cases. It is the fact that children come to school without being prepared to learn, sit and listen in class, without the skills they need to succeed. That is the real problem. Changing teachers may improve the situation for a short time. But eventually the new teachers will succumb to the stress of dealing with children who started school before they had the personal and social skills to profit from just being in a classroom.

[rpannier]

175. Ahhhh... The "It's not the right time..." Argument

Kind of like
"It's not the right time for marriage equality.

Had people listened to that line of reasoning in the 30's, we'd have never gotten the 40 hour work week or work safety.
We should always wait for the right time-- Keep our powder dry

[Hippo_Tron]

32. That's my suggestion as well

But if you suggest that people will complain that doing so means forcing poor people to move against their will.

[readmoreoften]

120. +1

[ipaint]

20. That number was pulled out of thin air. nt

[frazzled]

29. No it wasn't

From a progressive news blog in RI, and from an article from someone who is actually against the firings:

The District web site describes several initiatives put into place after the SALT visit in 2006. NECAP (standardized test) scores have increased since then, in reading and writing. Math scores, at 7% proficient, remain extremely low, and the aforementioned graduation rate continues to be a problem.

http://www.rifuture.org/myblog/trying-to-make-sense-of-central-falls.html

[Hell Hath No Fury]

39. "NECAP scores have increased since then, in reading and writing. "

That is proof right there this has nothing to do with test scores and that there is another agenda at work here.

Other than math, this school has been improving its test scores -- there were teachers who were clearly doing their jobs and doing them well.

Math was the big problem -- in thatc case, fire the math teachers. There didn't appear to be any reason to fire the entire faculty.

[DissedByBush]

127. Fire the math teachers?

No, we can't do that! All teachers are equally good, or haven't you heard?

This mass firing just extends the stupid equality logic some teachers unions use to turn down merit-based bonuses for teachers who excel.

[ipaint]

60. 7% of one grade level and that is a 4% improvement from 2008.

Most of the kids don't speak english. 90% of the kids live in poverty and the population is transient.
All I'm reading in every news article "7% aren't proficient in math!ll!"...gasp, the horror.

Well how about the break down of how many kids can speak english, how many kids are new to the 11th grade, how many kids are new to the high school. How much money is available for extra help, tutoring in english, remedial math for kids who this may be their 3rd, 4th or 5th school.

What's the backstory and how come this 7% meme has taken off, no questions asked.

I've seen this type of bulldozing approach to hide the truth too many times from right wing conservatives with an entirely different $goal$ in mind to accept these assumptions about the teachers, no questions asked, no context allowed.

As I have said Milton Friedman would be proud, create a disaster through years of neglect and then burn the place down with a blowtorch and replace it with a for profit non union system that will proceed to screw the kids at every turn.

A neo-liberal dlc, reagan democrat, gingrich republican wet dream.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. Usually a 1st defender of teachers, I agree with you on this one. n/t

[rpannier]

191. 1st Defender... Yeah Right

:rofl: :wtf: :rofl: :wtf: :rofl: :wtf: :rofl: :wtf: :rofl: :wtf: :rofl: :wtf: :rofl: :wtf: :rofl: :wtf:

[donco6]

246. Just not on this board - right?

Cuz I sure haven't seen that.

[laughingliberal]

34. If that was truly the issue, they would simply have fired the math teachers

Another agenda at work, here.

[tonysam]

51. These teachers make "too much money."

Time to hire more cheapo bimbos right out of the colleges and universities so they can be fired in two or three years. The kids, of course, get screwed over having experienced, good teachers.

[Bluebear]

37. Why was the band teacher fired? And the home ec teacher? And the Latin teacher?

[hughee99]

40. As I understand it, the government gave them 4 "models" to pick from...

but none of their choices gave them the option to pick and choose which teachers to fire and which to keep. It's a cookie cutter approach to a complex problem. Having said that, I'm not sure if that were an option, the school board would have taken it, or the union would have gone for it. There are likely other agendas at work here.

[mzteris]

62. the school wanted to keep the teachers

- GUARANTEEING them 100% retention! - and implement some changes to their duties. The offered to pay for some of these additions to the tune of $30/hr - which is in the contract, and a promise to try their best to obtain a grant to pay them some more monies. - the union wanted $90 an hour for more hours.

The budget cut to Central Falls was $1.7 MILLION for next year - so not sure where that would come from.

The horrible conditions being sought? 25 minutes more per day. One lunch with the kids per week. One 90-minute scheduled tutoring time each week. And two weeks of training in the summers. (or something close to that. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. There were six conditions - reasonable one!)

The idiots who were in charge of "negotiating" for the Union had no business being in that position. They screwed up royally and screwed those teachers and the kids.

Not saying it's the UNION - but the stupid stupid stupid people who were supposed to be looking out for the best interests of the teachers. And they didn't. They blew it.

[hughee99]

66. I posted on this the other day.

That option was the first one proposed by the school board, and was rejected by the teachers. As I understand it, the school was offering to pay the teachers for the summer training at $30/hour (about the rate they get now), but wasn't offering any additional payment for the 25 minute extended school day or for the one lunch. I'm not sure about the tutoring time, whether that was paid or not.

In either case, my point at the time was that the teachers would put in roughly 90 hours of additional time over the course of the year that they would not be paid for (done a 1/2 hour at a time, it wouldn't feel so painful). I can understand why teachers would WANT to be paid for the extra time (hey, who doesn't) but given the current economy, I don't think I would have drawn the line in the sand if it were me. The teachers asked for (again, as I've read) for $90 an hour for the summer training, which would essentially cover the extra school time, but that didn't get anywhere.

Given the choice between A job and NO job, I would have taken the deal, and given economy, the union doesn't seem to be getting a lot of support from non-teachers or those who aren't in another union.

[mzteris]

84. One point 7 MILLION Dollar budget REDUCTION

for Central Falls next year . . .


FYI: The $30/hour is what's in the contract.


some specifics:

"Attend two weeks of professional development in the summer at a rate of $30 an hour ($1,800 per year).

Stay after school for 90 minutes one day each week to work with fellow teachers analyzing student work and test data and discussing ways to improve teaching at a rate of $30 an hour if Gallo could find grant financing ($1,620 per year).

Gallo said she could pay teachers for some of the additional duties — but not all. Gallo said she offered to pay the teachers $30 per hour to attend two weeks of professional development in the summer, and said she would try to find grant money to cover 90 minutes of weekly “common planning time” after school. All told, Gallo said the 74 classroom teachers — 56 of whom earn the district’s top step of $72,000 a year — would likely earn $3,400 more.

[hughee99]

101. Isn't this basically what I said?

The teachers are basically adding 4 hours onto each work-week (the extra 25 minutes x 5 + 90 minutes per week and throw in the 1 lunch a week at, say, 25 minutes for the sake of nice round numbers), which they MAY be paid for if Gallo could get financing, and paid $30/per hour for the summer training which seemed to be guaranteed.

If they work 36 full weeks (180 days / 5), they'll work an extra 144 hours (36 x 4) over the course of a year for which they may or may not be paid (about 3 1/2 weeks), and another 2 weeks that they will get paid for the training.

IF the extra 4 hours a week was guaranteed, the teachers may have gone for it, but with grants harder to come by these days and a 1.7 million budget shortfall, the teachers may have been ended up working 144 hours for free.

Personally, I'm on salary and routinely work somewhere between 10-20 extra hours each week, so 144 doesn't seem like much to me. As I've said, if it were me, I'd have eventually taken that offer whether the extra 4 hours a week were guaranteed or not. I understand why the union wanted to get more guaranteed money, but if I were the union, I don't think I would have put all the workers out of a job over this.

This was a big "win" for the school administration from a PR and budgetary standpoint which now has something to point that they teachers union was trying to get more money, and what do you want to bet that of the fired teachers, most of the ones that don't get hired back will be in that top salary step. I'm not sure if any of this helps the students, though.

[Hannah Bell]

164. you go around repeating the same bullshit talking points, don't you?

over & over & over & over&over&over&over.....


FACT: The only guaranteed money offered was the $30/training rate for a training that added 2 weeks to the contracted school year.

For the extra 5 hours/week + loss of a contracted lunch/planning period, NO GUARANTEED MONEY.

In total, more than one month added to the work year.

A mere bagatelle to noble spirits like yourself, I'm sure.

[defendandprotect]

314. It's simply more exploitation of labor -- Saturday & Sunday's yet ????

[hughee99]

365. I can absolutely understand why the union wanted to be paid for 2 1/2 weeks

of additional work, and I can understand why they'd be skeptical that a promise to TRY to find the money in this environment had any real value.

On the other hand, as someone who routinely works more than 10 hours of unpaid OT a week, routinely works nights, weekends and holidays, who took an involuntary pay cut last year, whose "work value" is based strictly on results, not on effort, and still feels they have it better than most people in the work force, I can see how those who aren't teachers or in a union might not have as much sympathy for the plight of these teachers.

[defendandprotect]

382. People who don't understand the value of unions don't "get it" . . .

I agree --

but we all have a stake in unions -- as we all have a stake in the Minimum Wage

which should be a living wage -- and Unemployment Insurance --

These are things we have to pay attention to and protect -- otherwise our children

truly will be slaves --

Do you really want your children to work the way you are working?

Or maybe twice as hard?

The public has to understand holding the line -- stopping the downward spiral --

Currently, our workers are competing with slave labor all over the world!!

[JDPriestly]

162. The extra training was a good idea.

The tutoring would be more effective if done by people who are not teaching in the classroom of the children.

Volunteers from the community should do the tutoring. The teachers should be encouraged to spend the extra time preparing their classroom presentations -- and resting.

Do people know how tiring teaching is? Good teachers are performing all day. What they do is more difficult that artists performing music or in a theater. It is improvisational theater -- hours and hours of it every day. It's that magic of the improvisational theater that makes good teaching -- the unexpected, the inspiration of the moment that comes from the interaction of teacher and students.

I base this understanding on my experiences as a student and on those of my family and friends who are teachers. I am not a teacher although I taught at the university level for a very short time and did student teaching in college.

[Daphne08]

190. Do people know how tiring teaching is? No, they don't.

They don't have a clue unless they've done it themselves day after day over a period of years. I lasted seventeen years and had planned on continuing for many more because I loved the students, and I felt that I was making a difference.

After a pilot program for NCLB was implemented, I left.

Mine is a family of educators going back three generations, so I'm well aware that we've always been political footballs; however, it's become much worse over the past couple of decades.


Edited to add: I think Arne Duncan is an idiot.

[tonysam]

267. It's REALLY exhausting

It isn't like other jobs. You have to be "on" all the time--no daydreaming, no thinking about that vacation you are going to take. It literally wears you down. You are on your feet for the bulk of the day--you BETTER be, or else you get in trouble with the principal for not circulating around the room.

It doesn't matter if you have five kids in a life skills class (which is actually HARDER because these kids need the extra attention) or 35. The job will exhaust the hell out of you.

Then if you work with small children especially you are SICK all the time, which wears you down even more.

I was dog tired every single night from a day of working with kids. I wasn't that way when I worked in the business world even working overtime.

[mlevans]

307. That doesn't sound too onerous.

My wife, an elementary school guidance counselor, puts in considerably more "extra" duties/hours each and every week throughout the year, for which she receives her regular salary. I do think the mass firing was an extreme and uncalled for measure, but teachers gnerally expect to put in more time beyond regular school hours. I speak as a former teacher and the son and grandson of teachers.

[mzteris]

330. they didn't WANT to "fire the teachers"

the idiots in charge of negotiating for the teachers managed to accomplish that!

[haele]

340. Tutoring during lunch or after school does not help if you're still faced with 20 kids needing help

I remember the "new homeroom" set-up we were guinea pigs for when I went to High School, when there were only about average 10% "problem children" with failing standardized test scores.
Initially, if your teacher indicated you needed help, you would be assigned one of 9 subject specialized 20 minute daily homeroom before/after school or during lunch where there was one volunteer teacher and a student peer/teacher's aid to "tutor" at risk children who were falling behind in homework or having problems with a class. In 1975 when this program started, the school body was around 1100 more or less, three grades (they had just started middle school two years before) Each subject homeroom started out with least 20 kids in it; the Math, English, and Science homerooms tended to have around 30.

Within two months, the homerooms were split up, 4 times a week, two sessions just to get the homeroom sizes down to 10 students per teacher, and give the teachers a break so they could take care of their regular classes. Teachers stopped volunteering and the administration started assigning rotating teaching duties to cover the homerooms. This went on for five years before they finally gave up on the program, because even as the teachers were getting paid extra and had started out volunteering to help, the problem with at risk children is that homerooms and tutoring only work when the kid wants to learn.

And when you put a bunch of kids with issues ranging from learning disabilities to dysfunctional home life to "not enough time" to attitude or emotional problems together for just twenty minutes at a time, you end up spending most of that twenty minutes just settling them down and assessing the day to day situations with them. Only the kid that didn't have enough time to finish his or her homework because of home duties gets anything done, and even then, only if they aren't getting distracted by the attitude problems getting settled down.

My school was a university feed school in the Pacific Northwest; even with busing, we tended to be 80% middle class with educated professionals for parents, 25% minority (mainly asian), and perhaps only around 10% living at poverty level and probably around 20% from single parent or separated parent households. And with willing, dedicated and experienced teachers, we still had problems with getting a good "during school hours" tutoring program operational in house. The only tutoring programs that halfway worked were the hour and a half long after school "homework at school" programs with about a dozen or so volunteer "student mentors" (some serious Senior class credit was involved to get the mentors) as well as babysitting teachers that they implemented for my baby brother's peers after the one they tried for my peers failed miserably. At least the kids got their homework done and kept out of trouble while they were in the program, which was about half the battle right there, whether or not they actually learned anything.

Haele

[lordcommander]

49. [phone] n/t

[Starry Messenger]

63. You've been in the ed forum for days

and have had several posters explain things to you and despite that you persist in this meme. Something smells funny in here.

[frazzled]

97. Is it by invitation only?

It's the same three posters, and they haven't "explained" anything to me. I've read all the original source material from local Rhode Island papers. And then I've applied my own experience in working with academically and socially challenged students from a range of minority groups: Hmong, African American, Mexican, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Turkish, and plain old white bread.

I don't go "into" the education forum, which appears to be a private club I guess. I read threads from the "Latest" page, and whatever looks interesting to me I click on, whether it's in General Discussion: Presidential, General Discussion, Editorials, or even, gasp, education.

I guess only your view is valid?

[Chulanowa]

329. Do you believe that firing 93 teachers will "work"?

Are their replacements already hired? Are said replacements unquestionably better?

Doubtful, for all three questions.

What you are lauding here is basically just a "save face" move from the schoolboard. You know, the body that makes the decisions regarding education. By blaming the teachers (all of them? Every last one? Really?) they deflect blame from themselves, and they make a show of harrumphing and "doing something" even if that something is ineffective and useless.

This move will not improve the school. The base issues of the problem are not addressed, and the problem will be made worse. You think any quality teachers are going to come to a school where the school board has already demonstrated that they regard teachers as little more than disposable assets? What's going to happen here is that these kids are going to end up with teachers that have been scraped up. Classes are no doubt going to be much larger, some subjects may even get cut.

This is a losing recipe.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzteris]

112. funny -

I see that tactic on here all the time from a few people! (Well, to be honest, in a couple cases I don't actually SEE that tactic anymore, but I hear others bitching about it over and over again.)

[Hannah Bell]

160. i've seen it from you.

[goclark]

102. I am a former school administrator

and I have never heard of 7%!

That is a reason to take strong steps.

I have been assigned to schools in the heart of the Urban Areas and I have never heard of scores like that --- never.

[Hannah Bell]

163. You haven't? Gee, I found another one in Rhode Island in about 1 minute:

Central High School, Providence Rhode Island

4% proficient in math on the same test.

http://www.greatschools.org/modperl/achievement/ri/29#necap_subgroup

not surprisingly, another low-income school.

you were saying?

[rpannier]

183. Read the article and get the full effect

If you did read it, read it again or get someone else to read it to you

[JTFrog]

210. Well you obviously didn't or struggled with it. n/t

[donco6]

249. How "former" are you?

Because I see it all the time on standards-based tests. These are not norm-referenced where 50% is "average."

[goclark]

337. Former enough to know that the children in that school

have a long way to go!

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MattBaggins]

137. No you have grossly miscalculated

Obama puts one more needle in the eye of Unions; and he will be a one term President.

Teachers are being scapegoated so that schools can be turned over to private for profit enterprises and staffed with H1-B teachers. You are the type that swallows hook line and sinker that the teachers are wholly at fault and weren't have asinine draconian requirements demanded of them.

They were already "on board" a long time ago.

[JDPriestly]

158. From an earlier article on the situation in that school, I learned

that the performance model that the principal suggested to the teachers would have required them to do things that would not have helped classroom performance at all -- like eating lunch with students. Asking teachers to come in earlier to tutor students was not a bad idea, but it was not the best idea. A better idea is to ask students from a local college or university -- or even high school -- to tutor students who are having a tough time mastering the material one on one.

[mzteris]

232. how could that not help?

Having a relationship with students outside of the classroom would be win-win for everyone. Getting to know each other as people. Seeing each other as individuals.

[JDPriestly]

315. The relationship outside the classroom would be helpful if teachers

and students were doing something that was fun together. But monitoring the lunchroom and tutoring before school are not the kinds of activities that build relationships. Neither the teachers nor the kids want to be in those situations. The teachers need their lunch breaks. And the before school tutoring is just too exhausting for the children and the teachers. Our school days are long as they are. Teachers need more time for preparation and paper-grading. Requiring them to tutor takes away either from their sleep or from their preparation and paper-grading.

People do not understand how much most teachers really work and how difficult their work is. They stand on their feet many hours a day and have to be alert every minute. Very few jobs are that demanding. Oh, and in addition to having to discipline kids whose parents have never prepared them to sit in a classroom, teachers are supposed to present exciting lessons so that the children stay interested and learn.

We already demand the impossible of our teachers.

I favor requiring the parents of children who do not do well in school to take parenting classes. In many cases in communities, the parents need to learn to read and write well and do math themselves so that they can help their kids.

[rpannier]

180. Actually had you read the article you would have known that it wasn't a quote from anyone

The writer put that in as a lead in.

As to your 7% in math... They have an above rate of English as 2nd language and IEP children (it's in the article). Since many problems are word problems low English would make it difficult

In addition from the article:

-Seven principals during the past six years at the high school.
- Twenty-six different administrators (including superintendents, assistant superintendents, principals, assistant principals, etc.) directly involved with the high school during the past five years.
- Six months before the firings, the school underwent a massive restructuring into content-specific academies. Isn’t it a little early to know if they are working?
- the number of college applications by Central Falls High School seniors has tripled during the past 5 years, according to McLaughlin.

[Chef Eric]

203. Hmmm. Maybe we didn't read the same article?

George McLaughlin is quoted as saying, "Leave us alone."

Look, I agree with you that mass firings of public school teachers is WRONG. It is a huge mistake. But you're not going to convince people of that if you falsely accuse them of not having read the article.

[JTFrog]

209. I really hope you aren't a teacher.

Your reading skills are a little under par.

“We feel so beaten down,” said George McLaughlin, a veteran counselor at Central Falls who is one of the 93 people recently told that they would be out of a job at year’s end. His wife, too, will lose her job; she is a chemistry teacher there. The soon-to-be jobless couple has one child in college and another entering this fall.

“President Obama is going to alienate every school teacher in the United States,” he said. “We want to march over to the White House and hand a petition signed by tens of thousands of teachers, even more, that says, ‘Leave us alone. Let us do our jobs.' ”

[Fruittree]

193. I'm sorry for people losing their jobs but I agree with frazzled.

From what I read weren't the teachers and staff told that they had to make some changes which included a 25 minute longer day, rotating schedule of tutoring, staff meetings, once a week lunch with the kids and a 2 week teaching course (paid) in the summer? Given that the students whose success should be the main focus there are obviously not doing well academically, these seemed like reasonable and necessary changes. Why would the staff not go along with this? Or is there something I don't know here...
Teaching, like medicine, counseling, veterinary care and other such professions should be a deeper commitment than something done simply for a paycheck. Students who can't graduate high school are not only hurting themselves but the entire society by not being easily employable and at times turning to crime. It's a lifelong hurt.

[RBInMaine]

195. I'm amazed these performance issues haven't already been addressed. There are so many measures that

already should have been taken. I'm a public educator myself. First, where are they with their state and federal standard sanctions? ALL schools are required to meet state and federal (No Child Left Behind) standards, and those mandates should have already created certain changes if this has been a chronically failing school regardless of union approval. There are many mandates that unions have no say in. On some of the other things, it seems odd that the union would not have been willing to concede on additional, reasonable measures such as having to stay after for a minimal amount of time each day to work with kids, etc. These are very common practices in many or most school systems with which I am familiar. There are so many other things that can be done and many models out there. How well has the administration tried to work WITH the teachers to determine what they can do TOGETHER to address these issues, or has it all been top-down dictation? On both sides there may be more to this story. And, YES, if a school system is chronically failing, it is most likely due to such a large cohort of at-risk/low socioeconomic students and families, and it is CRITICAL that parents and families be engaged to work WITH the schools as well and step up, turn off the video games, and do THEIR part too. But it looks like there is too much factionism here and not enough COOPERATION going on. That may be an ongoing cultural problem in this location, but the first responsibility to fix that is the administration and their approach. I think we need to know the whole story here.

[Jester Messiah]

224. I'm glad -somebody- is paying attention to the real issue.

Nobody is entitled to their job. If a person, of any profession, fails so badly for so long then they deserve to get fired. This is what we call accountability. I know it's almost an alien concept after the reign of B*sh, but I'm glad to see it making a comeback.

And before anyone starts their goddamn tireless bitching and moaning about Wall Street bankers, know that I consider the teaching of our nations youth quite a bit more important than what some spreadsheet-twiddlers get up to.

[donco6]

252. But every teacher, from every subject? THAT'S "accountability?"

Interesting concept.

[Jester Messiah]

336. When encountering a systemic failure, yes. [nt]

[Deep13]

7. I'm not going to pretend to know the details in this case.

Nevertheless, it is no secret that schools not only employ dedicated, hard working teachers, but dead-weight two. In my high school (that was the 1980s) my estimate is that it was about half and half. I have to think the real teachers find the dead-weight to be a discouraging waste of resources and opportunity.

[Romulox]

9. Guys you don't get it--shitting on unions is a CALCULATED PLOY to win the OTHER guy's support

:hi:

[Bluebear]

11. Right in this thread, matter of fact.

[leftstreet]

12. [phone]

[readmoreoften]

121. You got it. He's appealing to his base: "Moderate" Republicans.

[Jester Messiah]

226. Why is it "shitting on unions" to fire people who obviously suck at their jobs? [nt]

[EFerrari]

293. Because those people didn't suck at their jobs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7830386&mesg_id=7830386

[Jester Messiah]

334. Their graduation rate says otherwise. [nt]

[EFerrari]

353. Their last assessment by the state shows improvement over the last two years.

And THAT is what was just slammed on national television by our executive.

[Jester Messiah]

379. An improvement to "abysmal" is still abysmal.

It does make one shudder at what the previous level was. "F*cking Horrible" maybe?

[EFerrari]

380. You have no clue about this school and you didn't read the report, did you?

Fail.

[Jester Messiah]

396. Whatever you say, pal. [nt]

[eridani]

393. Who never misses a chance to remind us that getting universal health care

--is going to take a lot of time. Geez, you expect him to get it all done instantly?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Teachers have become the new "welfare queens" to the politicians. K&R

Especially the ones teaching poor kids.

[Craftsman]

26. Mark these words, politocos will start to take aim at all gov workers

Gov workers are well compensated, not due increases but the decreases the private sector have had over the years. Some goat must be scaped and the politocos will throw the gov workers under the bus to protect their corporate masters.

[upi402]

17. Retards (liberal activists) not wanted by this Whitehouse -Rahm Emanuel

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/02/rahm-apologizes-for-privately-calling-liberal-activists-retarded.html
I don't accept his apology.
Obama knew what Rahm was about when he picked his team, and we better know by now what Obama is all about.

[Craftsman]

21. My wife is a teacher at an alternative high school and this has angered

her and her fellows.

[wroberts189]

22. Glad I never became a teacher... KNR

[stray cat]

24. If my employee said leave me alone let me do my job and was incompetent

I would can them with no regrets. I can't afford to pay people who are incompetent.

If the person was doing a better job than I can do - I'll let them do their job

[Bluebear]

25. I'm not surprised that you don't support the teachers or their Union.

[stray cat]

33. DO you want to pay for my incompetent technician - she is looking for a job

60,000 but you have to teach her to divide 10 by 2. After all she is only a biology major with her degree why should she be able to do 3rd grade math? However, I'm glad you will pay her to sit around. I use tax payer dollars and I don't think tax payers should have to pay people to sit around.

[Bluebear]

36. is your technician born of poverty & relegated to an underfunded school system?

[laughingliberal]

38. There you go! Teachers, like all the rest of the working class, continue to be required to do more

with less.

[liberation]

177. And that is your patriotic duty citizen! If the rich can't do less with more... The terririst win!

Do you hate America? Because if you do love it, you should have no problem getting an extra job and spend even less time with your family, just to break even. Mr. Bush told us it was a "genuinely American" trait.

The American workforce is one of the most abused collectives in the modern world, I don't think any other collective's productivity has been able to overcome inflation so consistently and thoroughly as the American worker. But there is a limit... and if current health care costs keep on rising coupled with stagnant or eliminated wages. Something is going to give and it won't be pretty.

Like my grandpa used to tell me: be weary of people sporting suspenders asking you to tighten your belt.

[sabrina 1]

82. Me too, which is why if I were president, I would

not have rewarded with nearly a trillion dollars in bail-out tax-payer dollars the most criminally incompetent economy destroying CEOs in the history of the world.

I don't think incompetence is the issue in this case.

[flyarm]

116. or hired the same incompetent treasury people as the previous boss that collapsed an entire nations

economy and many other countries as well!

[liberation]

174. ... and keep the same secretary of defense from the previous administration

because if one thing defined the Bush presidency was the whole war on terror nonsense. So it makes perfect sense for the so-called "change" candidate to keep the person in charge of the most defining issue from the previous clusterfuck of an administration.

So apparently continuation is change
War is Peace, I mean we have a nobel peace winner escalating a WAR right after accepting the award
And now with the attack of teaching unions, ignorance will soon be hailed as a strength.


This is like bizarro world or something. Seriously, I most definitively did not expect to be saying that about our first cool half black president dude. Whoever are in charge of the whole operation, must be geniuses really. Well played, well played.... LOL

[JTFrog]

227. Gates is hardly Rumsfeld. n/t

[liberation]

325. You are right, Rumsfeld was not up to the gills in the whole Iran-Contra deal...

and they have a different last name.

Differences which I assume you find far more crucial than their similarity policy-wise.

[JTFrog]

327. You said "the person in charge of the most defining issue from the previous clusterfuck

of an administration."

You believe that Gates defined the issue and coordinated Bush's "war on terror" even tho he wasn't brought on until the middle of Bush's second term?

[flyarm]

384. Gates was up to his eyeballs in the Iran -Contra crimes..wake the fuck up!

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_16.htm

snip:

Gates and Casey's November 1986 Testimony


The events leading up to the preparation of false testimony by Director Casey in November 1986 -- preparations that Gates nominally oversaw -- are set forth in a separate chapter of this Report. There was insufficient evidence that Gates committed a crime as he participated in the preparation of Casey's testimony, or that he was aware of critical facts indicating that some of the statements by Casey and others were false.

Conclusion


Independent Counsel found insufficient evidence to warrant charging Robert Gates with a crime for his role in the Iran/contra affair. Like those of many other Iran/contra figures, the statements of Gates often seemed scripted and less than candid. Nevertheless, given the complex nature of the activities and Gates's apparent lack of direct participation, a jury could find the evidence left a reasonable doubt that Gates either obstructed official inquiries or that his two demonstrably incorrect statements were deliberate lies.

[JTFrog]

392. What the fuck does that have to do with who defined and ran Bush's "war on terror"?

I'm wide the fuck awake thank you very much.

We can all argue apples and oranges all day long if you wish, but it doesn't really accomplish much does it?

[flyarm]

399. YOU BROUGHT UP GATES. Gates is not Rumsfeld right....he is now Obama's man

and he is a god damned criminal..


why in gods name would Obama keep Reagan/Papa Bush's guy?

why?????????

Was there no one else in the whole damn country that Obama could have hired that was not a criminal who was smack in the middle of the Iran Contra crimes?

Was there no one else Obama could have hired that was not tied to the CIA and the shadow government?????????

No you were exactly right ..and YOU BROUGHT IT UP>>Gates sure as hell is not Rummy..he is just AS BAD THOUGH! MAYBE THE KINGPIN NOW OF THE SHADOW GOVERNMENT.. and he has the goods on all the bad guys ..and the ties .

Funny everyone here was screaming our heads off when Bush brought this fucker into his administration..but silence now by dems that Obama hired the fucker too!

another example of ..if a D does it ..it is aok.........

[JTFrog]

405. Those caps making ya feel better? lol

Go back and look at the post I initially replied to and try to figure out who brought up Gates. I know it's confusing because that poster obviously makes it sound like Obama appointed Rumsfeld to his cabinet. :shrug:

The reading comprehension in a thread about education is hilarious.

[flyarm]

400. I believe he was brought in by papa bush to cover up the crimes !

[liberation]

171. And if my grandma had balls we would have called her grandpa...

... it is always "IF"s and made up scenarios with some of you to make your point.


It is so easy to assume you could tell other people what to do without having been in their shoes, right?

[Hissyspit]

189. "and was incompetent" There's the rub.

And what if you were the one incompetent?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7831790

[NightWatcher]

27. the teachers can join the gays, Progressives, and others under the Admin's "bus"

Obama's burning his bridges really fast. I'm afraid when 2012 gets here he's going to be very lonely

[QC]

70. Is there a single remaining Democratic constituency that he has not betrayed?

I honestly can't think of one.

[spoony]

88. No, but there are those who don't recognise that they have been.

And nothing will convince them, apparently.

[QC]

157. A few still have stars in their eyes. n/t

[liberation]

176. Come on guys... don't be so mean. He is so dreeeeeeaaaammmmmyyy

Apparently, if you were to be an actual moderate republican with capacity for critical thought and analysis (HA!!) you could make a very good case that Pres. Obama has not betrayed a single item which is consistent with a moderate conservative agenda.

Which is funny, because that is exactly the DLC's intended audience. You know the mythical moderate conservative, who normally would rather have a colonoscopy than vote for a Dem ever. But for some reason the DLC feels a weird infatuation with, maybe because they are too chickenshit to register as Republicans (now that the brand has been damaged beyond repair) and instead they want their loved ones to switch over to the Dem party they so hate. It is really unhealthy when you think about it.

So maybe next time, progressives, gays, unions, et al... should vote for a center-left candidate which is the side of the spectrum more likely to fit with their collective interests. It gets really frustrating when people keep bitching that a moderate conservative somehow is failing as a progressive. Well, duh!

[ixion]

31. get in line...

he's alienating many of the people who voted for him with his "triangulation"

[Vidar]

42. Obama deserves to lose his office over this one.

[tonysam]

46. Being against public education is being against democracy. Period.

It has no place in the Democratic Party. I can't believe people spewing think tank nonsense in favor of charters and school privatization.

[Vidar]

59. Thank you.

[DailyGrind51]

44. Reaching a class of middle-school students today is analogous to

obtaining consensus from Republicans and ConservaDems, Mr. President. Would you like voters to judge you by the standard you would set for teachers?

[amborin]

47. K&R

[reggie the dog]

48. I am a teacher

Obama has lost my vote unless he seriously changes direction on a lot of issues.

[branders seine]

50. was he always this dumb?

or did he catch something in the White House?

[tonysam]

52. Sadly, he always was.

It's just that the public wasn't informed about his stances on a number of issues.

I knew he was bad news on education, but he's even exceeded my low expectations. He's much, much worse than Bush on this issue.

[branders seine]

89. He has been the biggest political disappointment of my life

(first vote was for Jimmy Carter)

and I didn't expect much.

[anonymous171]

111. He's not dumb, he is just morally wrong on this issue nt

[readmoreoften]

122. Nope. Just that corrupt.

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

53. Where is the concern for the poor students who are being hurt?

[Bluebear]

54. All over GD if you care to stop spinning and look for it.

[NJmaverick]

55. Funny it seems to be missing in places it should be present

[tonysam]

56. I don't see Obama giving a shit, let alone Duncan

The "kids" are being used as an excuse for wholesale privatization of public education.

This isn't about the "kids" at all--this is about the venture philanthropists who have apparently bought both political parties getting their filthy hands on a public service and try to make a profit out of it.

[tonysam]

58. So the teachers are hurting them, and we should hire cheapo bimbos

at half the pay, with half the knowledge and experience, so THEY can be tossed out like so much garbage after "careers" of two or three years?

Do you know ANYTHING about this issue? Obama isn't perfect, you know.

[Fumesucker]

61. I think the poor students are being hurt by the school board, who are clearly incompetent..

It's a prima facie case, the organization is failing at its mission, the leadership is incompetent.

But of course, the superintendent and the school board remain, only the peons are going to be changed leaving an incompetent upper management in place.

It is a poor workman who blames his tools and a poor manager who blames his staff.

[saracat]

95. Certainly not in the Admin who is taking their money, closing schools

and pouring the money into charter schools and vouchers that are only useful to the wealthy because they never cover the entire tuition.That money could have gone into hiring more teachers,reducing class size and providing books! Do you even know how amny teachers spend thousands of dollars of the pittance they make providing matgerials for those 'poor students".The teachers themselves, not the governmnts either state or national.

[MichiganVote]

99. Were they fired? Are they raising families? Do they pick the curriculum?

If and when an entire staff is let go---its management, the school board who are at fault. Some leadership. Not.

[donco6]

254. I'm concerned for them. They're like my kids.

And I just don't see how firing the band teacher helps them want to come to school.

[arcadian]

292. Spin spin spin.

[flyarm]

402. where was the concern before the election of the poor in Obama's own district he let freeze in ORD

winters..? wtf was that concern? The very poor in his own district !!

Oh yeah..it was racist is you brought it up here..if i remember correctly! and i do.

[reggie the dog]

57. How high do you want test scores to be at a school where

most kids "math" involves cutting up 500 dollars of drugs into 100 dime bags. Really, what is the drop out rate? How many of the kids want to do something other than be gangsters? How can teachers be responsible for such kids not learning?

[Rockholm]

64. Poorly perfoming teachers should be fired.

As should poorly performing firemen and cops.

[Bluebear]

67. And poorly performing Wall Street Tycoons. And torturers should be held accountable.

That doesn't matter to this administration, however.

[EFerrari]

124. This school was praised by a state audit last year for improving.

We're being fed a big steaming pile about this school and if those teachers march, we should march right along with them.

[flyarm]

128. and you know that every single one of those teachers is poorly performing how?

every school has excellent teachers..even poor schools..but at this school ..ALL THE TEACHERS WERE FIRED! Even good and possibly great teachers.

Teachers that had absolutely nothing to do with MATH SCORES ..were fired.

This was Union Busting..plain and simple.


All union members know that they do not break their own contracts. These teachers were following the collective bargaining done by their union.

And for that they were fired.

[MattBaggins]

140. Leave him alone... He's busy spouting platitudes

[EFerrari]

172. KBR just got another 2.8 BILLION dollar contract from the Pentagon.

[flyarm]

403. good money to be had by Obama and the dems if you electrocute soldiers!!

If you are well connnected to the Bushes and Cheney's..Obama opens the cash bag and tells them dig in!!

But if you are a teacher in a very poor area with kids who many are challenged and don't have a very good support system and a new principle every year and no administration stability..You have no use to Obama or the dems any longer..because there is big money$$$$$$$$$$ to be made in those schools they shut down!!

Don'tcha know..

Same as the poor in Obama's district in Chi town he ignored, when they were left to freeze in the Chicago winters ..( hint hint..they are damn cold winters) ..while he was making those bucks with Rezco. Same guy..he didn't care they were shutting down the projects and leaving the poor destitute...with no where to go ..but to freeze...but there was money to be made..oh indeed there was money to be made.

So this time it is teachers..and busting a teachers union..but setting the stage for this nationwide...and a president.

[JVS]

225. poorly performing students should be fired

[donco6]

255. OK.

So what does that mean in teaching? How much time does a teacher get to pull a kid from 7% to proficient? Because you know they weren't there as incoming freshmen, right? And it's not a matter of getting them to proficient in basic skills - they have to be proficient in whatever the state curriculum is at that point in their career - in this case, algebra II/trig by 11th grade. And the trig teacher has the kid for less than 1/2 a semester before the testing starts. So, do you fire all the math teachers along the way?

Just curious.

Oh, and PS. You may want to explain why the band teacher has to get canned, too.

[eridani]

394. And obviously you judge cops by the crime rate in their assignment areas

Just fire all the cops in areas where crime is too high, and all will be well.

[Starry Messenger]

65. The Teach For America

teachers who take these jobs will quickly see the value of solidarity. Unfortunately it will be too late. Mandating unpaid hours will be part of the workplace culture. They'll be all shocked when they're replaced by teachers on h1b visas. For-profit schooling people. It's coming.

[corpseratemedia]

68. +1

As a former teacher I am against this scapegoating and am afraid we're going to end up exactly where you predict. Then we'll see it covered by the m$m like it's a big surprise.

[Starry Messenger]

94. Thanks.

I second your prediction about the media. There will be serious newscasts about this sudden "crisis in American".

[Kitsune]

69. No base constituency left unbackstabbed.

I really wish it wasn't, but it seems to be the president's motto. :/

[EFerrari]

144. Seriously, it looks EXACTLY like that. n/t

[Jakes Progress]

280. Well, maybe we can get the republicans to like us though.

That effort has gotten us so much support in the congress.

[Uzybone]

71. They should rally support and march

more action; less talking and whining back and forth.

[Bluebear]

73. I would "whine" too if I lost my job in one fell swoop.

And if the President sanctioned it.

[Uzybone]

78. but that wouldn't get your job back

The damn reactionary tea partiers sure know how to get attention. Our side just complains amongst ourselves and gets nothing done.

Threatening a march on Washington is much less effective than actually marching on Washington.

[NYC_SKP]

72. My R.I. teacher friends disagree, they don't blame Obama. Blame Supt., who had FOUR CHOICES!!!!

While nobody there is happy, or proud, neither does anyone I've spoken with have the idiot streak that would blame the administration for this.

Union busting LOL. The school had to choose from four reform models:

...Weingarten said the local school superintendent abruptly halted negotiations with the local teachers' union. Weingarten said she personally appealed to Rhode Island's new education commissioner, Deborah Gist, to restart talks but was rebuffed.

The shake-up at Central Falls High School came after Gist identified it as among the worst 5 percent in the state. She ordered local school officials to pick from one of four reform models, including mass firings.

Superintendent Frances Gallo said she initially wanted teachers to agree to changes including a longer school day, offering more tutoring and receiving extra training over the summer. She offered the teachers more pay for some, but not all, of the changes.

Gallo said she resorted to firings when talks with the teachers' union broke down.
...

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/education/22713048/detail.html

The four reform models:

Final Rules Set for School Turnaround Grants

States, Districts Must Pick From Four Models for Grants to Fix Lowest-Performing Schools

December 4, 2009

-snip-

To get their money, states must target schools that rank in the bottom 5 percent in student achievement. In one change from the proposed regulations, the definition of lowest-achieving schools has been expanded to include high schools with graduation rates below 60 percent for a “number of years.”

The money will flow to states based on the Title I formula for aid to disadvantaged students, but states will award the money competitively to districts.

School districts must agree to one of four turnaround models: closing the school and sending students to higher-achieving ones; turning it around by replacing the principal and most of the staff; “restarting” the school by turning it over to a charter- or education-management organization; or implementing a mandatory basket of strategies labeled “transformation.”

During a 30-day public-review period for the proposed regulations, 180 comments were submitted, many of them critical of what was described as highly prescriptive reforms from the federal government. Critics said the models might not work in communities where teacher and principal shortages exist, where teachers’ union contracts pose barriers, or where closing an entire school isn’t feasible.

-snip-
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2009/12/04/14brief-b1.h29.html?tkn=QUVFjtaZOAG18XUc%2Fn90N6akQTBVdMIpNL9d&print=1

In preemptive defense of the plan lets keep in mind that schools don't HAVE to try to get these grants.
I think that the fourth option, "implementing a basket list of strategies", creates a lot of opportunities for schools that don't wish to apply the other three.

Blame Obama, blame Arne Duncan?

Nah, bullshit.

:patriot:

[Bluebear]

80. Obama PRAISED the firings.

[mzteris]

114. the way I see it - the union negotiators CHOSE that option

to have them all fired.

The admin wanted to guarantee them all 100% retention.

Face it, the negotiators were incompetent and over their head. They didn't stop to think this through and thought they could play "hardball".

[MattBaggins]

142. He... praised... the... firings

idiot streak indeed

[JTFrog]

233. +1

Thanks for the links.

[NYC_SKP]

74. My R.I. teacher friends disagree, they don't blame Obama. Blame Supt., who had FOUR CHOICES!!!!

While nobody there is happy, or proud, neither does anyone I've spoken with have the idiot streak that would blame the administration for this.

Union busting LOL. The school had to choose from four reform models:

...Weingarten said the local school superintendent abruptly halted negotiations with the local teachers' union. Weingarten said she personally appealed to Rhode Island's new education commissioner, Deborah Gist, to restart talks but was rebuffed.

The shake-up at Central Falls High School came after Gist identified it as among the worst 5 percent in the state. She ordered local school officials to pick from one of four reform models, including mass firings.

Superintendent Frances Gallo said she initially wanted teachers to agree to changes including a longer school day, offering more tutoring and receiving extra training over the summer. She offered the teachers more pay for some, but not all, of the changes.

Gallo said she resorted to firings when talks with the teachers' union broke down.
...

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/education/22713048/detail.html

The four reform models:

Final Rules Set for School Turnaround Grants

States, Districts Must Pick From Four Models for Grants to Fix Lowest-Performing Schools

December 4, 2009

-snip-

To get their money, states must target schools that rank in the bottom 5 percent in student achievement. In one change from the proposed regulations, the definition of lowest-achieving schools has been expanded to include high schools with graduation rates below 60 percent for a “number of years.”

The money will flow to states based on the Title I formula for aid to disadvantaged students, but states will award the money competitively to districts.

School districts must agree to one of four turnaround models: closing the school and sending students to higher-achieving ones; turning it around by replacing the principal and most of the staff; “restarting” the school by turning it over to a charter- or education-management organization; or implementing a mandatory basket of strategies labeled “transformation.”

During a 30-day public-review period for the proposed regulations, 180 comments were submitted, many of them critical of what was described as highly prescriptive reforms from the federal government. Critics said the models might not work in communities where teacher and principal shortages exist, where teachers’ union contracts pose barriers, or where closing an entire school isn’t feasible.

-snip-
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2009/12/04/14brief-b1.h29.html?tkn=QUVFjtaZOAG18XUc%2Fn90N6akQTBVdMIpNL9d&print=1

In preemptive defense of the plan lets keep in mind that schools don't HAVE to try to get these grants.
I think that the fourth option, "implementing a basket list of strategies", creates a lot of opportunities for schools that don't wish to apply the other three.

Blame Obama, blame Arne Duncan?

Nah, bullshit.

:patriot:

[Bluebear]

77. .

[flyarm]

129. Obama Praised the firing and Union Busting..what part of that are you not getting? eom

[MadHound]

75. This is already turning every teacher I know against Obama

The AFT and NEA were already on shaky grounds with Obama to begin with, and the happenings of the past few months have really turned them against Obama.

Frankly, unless he does a quick one eighty, he is not getting this teacher's support, nor the support of any teacher I know. He thinks that wholesale firings are OK, fine, let's make his administration be on the receiving end of the pink slip.

[mzteris]

115. I know lots and lots of teachers

who still support him. (and no, they're not Republicans. They're card-carrying union member Democrats!)

[flyarm]

133. None I KNOW are supporting him and his union busting praise! In fact I belong to 3 unions and i am

finding more and more Union member friends and family saying they are staying home in Nov..and I am one of them..oh and Obama and the dems can kiss my ass for my money and my volunteer ..You know the Same "kiss my ass Rahm told liberals " to do to him?? Well now he and the dems can kiss mine! And among many union friends and family of mine..that feeling quickly becoming universal.

[mzteris]

230. that's the spirit! Put Sarah in the White House!!

:woohoo:

there's a really good idea.

:eyes:

[QC]

259. So this is what we are reduced to: "He's not quite as bad as Sarah Palin!1!!11!"

That's a very low standard, don't you think?

[mzteris]

332. actually, I think the

"I'M NOT GONNA VOTE FOR HIM 'CAUSE HE pissed in MY cornflakes" a pretty low standard.

it's idiotic to be a "one issue voter".

[donco6]

300. Do you never tire of that old canard?

So our best option is to be satisfied with a person only marginally better than a nutball? Fabulous.

[mzteris]

335. I think he's WAY better, and if you don't

then you have some issues.

Do youy REALLY think that having McCain/Palin in the White House would be PREFERABLE?? REALLY?

How about another Bush? Or Romney. Maybe Boehner or Santorum or someone like that?

Our best option is to keep the GD republicans OUT of the WhiteHouse and get more Dems IN the Congress/Sentate so progress can be made more readily.

I'm sorry you don't like the methods being used in your "arena" of interest - but there are plenty of people - good Democrats - who do. I may not like everything he does. I completely dislike SOME things (yes, even some things within the whole education arena), but overall - I know good and damn well we're a whole damn sight better off with Obama in the WhiteHouse than the alternative would have given us.

Of course, I would have rather had HILLARY, but that's another story.

[donco6]

342. You just regurgitated it all over again.

You have nothing to offer.

[mzteris]

346. everyone has something to offer

if we're willing to listen.

[donco6]

347. You don't have to work at it anymore - the thread's going to be locked anyway.

You've done your job.

[mzteris]

349. I'd say it's the anti-Democrats on this thread

who'll get it locked.

I support MY PRESIDENT and MY PARTY.

[donco6]

359. All that's missing is the pom-poms. GO TEAM! n/t

[mzteris]

373. nah - never had any use

for cheerleaders.

[flyarm]

385. I won't be putting anyone in..I will sit it out because the dems in congress and this pres will put

them in by shitting all over their base and constituency!

That is their choice..my only means of holding them accountable to my democratic principles and values is to withold my vote!

Attack them for what they are doing to piss off so many that put them in leadership!

False flag is blaming those holding them accountable!

[earth mom]

76. Obama has thrown just about everybody under the bus. Who's left? nt

[karynnj]

79. Not just teachers - it is likely all of us have friends or family who are teachers

Here the problem is that every single one was fired. It is very hard to believe that there was not even one good - or even exceptional teacher in the school.

I have a huge amount of respect for anyone willing to take a teaching job in an area like that. I spoke to one teacher back in the late 80s or early 90s who worked at an innercity school. Many children in her class had been crack babies. Most had no books in their home and the school library did not let kids take them out of the school - because they never returned. Although she had a second grade class then, many kids were already more than a year behind. In that school, it likely took a very good teacher to help the kids at all.

Meanwhile, in my affluent suburb, between parents, kids smart enough to learn it from the book alone or tutors, you would never be able to see whether a teacher was bad - the kids had multiple safety nets and usually enter a grade achieving above their grade level.

This type of action would penalize the teachers who already had the harder jobs.

[tonysam]

81. The BEST, most SENIOR teachers should be paid EXTRA

to work in the inner-city schools. It should NOT be allowed for newbies and especially TFA temps to take on such a hard job. It is a recipe for burnout and a disaster.

Not that our elected officials care.

[Bluebear]

83. gotta say...

you are on fire with this issue. :toast:

[ProSense]

85. "56 of whom earn the district’s top step of $72,000 a year — would likely earn $3,400 more"

Gallo said she could pay teachers for some of the additional duties — but not all. Gallo said she offered to pay the teachers $30 per hour to attend two weeks of professional development in the summer, and said she would try to find grant money to cover 90 minutes of weekly “common planning time” after school. All told, Gallo said the 74 classroom teachers — 56 of whom earn the district’s top step of $72,000 a year — would likely earn $3,400 more.

But Gallo said she didn’t have enough money to pay teachers for the other duties, including adding 25 minutes to the school day, tutoring students and eating lunch with them once a week.

Union officials said they were willing to make the changes but wanted to be paid for more of the extra work, and at a higher rate of $90 per hour.

“It’s not about time and money,” said Jim Parisi, a RIFT field representative. “It’s about our right to negotiate time and money.”

Talks broke down.

link

That's a damn good salary.

[saracat]

98. Most teachers I know don't make anywhere near that.

The highest average salary for teachers with experience is $55,693. Most make considerably less and put in ungodly long hours as well as having to provide books and tools for the kids out of their own pockets.Don't you feel any shame in attacking teachers at all? How can anyone claiming to represent Democratic values attack teachers? And demand they compete on the same level in poor districts as the wealthy? And compete with schools that can cherry pick as opposed to those that must take everyone.This is a true crime.Link to salaries below:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary

[ProSense]

100. Well, that is actual salaries of the teachers being discussed. n/t

[saracat]

106. And so what? That isn't much at all for what they do.All teachers should be

paid at least that much.

[YvonneCa]

139. 56 of 74 earn the top salary...

...of $72,000. Think about that for a minute. If those teachers are gone, that is a LOT of money saved...newbies come in around $26-28,000. It's almost a 3 for the price of 1 deal...especially if benefits are added in.

There is more to this than what meets the eye. "Follow the money.":7

[donco6]

301. I don't understand.

So you're saying they really didn't have a choice to take the offer or not? It was "take the offer or be fired?" I've never heard of negotiations working like that.

[haele]

376. Hmm, how much do most companies pay engineers with Master's Degrees?

Most teachers start with at least 6 years of college and a couple years "internship" or substitute teaching behind them before they become full time.
Most computer, mechanical, or electrical engineers who sit at a desk with a Master's and 3 - 5 years experience get around $40 to $60 an hour for their pay - more if they specialize, so what's the difference in pay again?
How much is all that education, all the extra work, worth?
A friend of mine who was a certified Nanny (at the time, requiring an associates in child development and a background check)got $30 an hour for a 40 hour week, plus medical, room and board and OT if she stayed to care for the children during house parties and went on paid vacations with the family; her "salary" ended up looking like approximately $85K to the IRS.

But according to most, she, like charter school and private school teachers, are innovative professionals taking risks because even though they could pick their positions, their students, they could be fired at will - unlike those whiny overpaid and over-educated babysitters known as public school teachers, who can't pick their students or their class sizes - nor their curriculum down to the way they might want to manage their classes.

If one views a teacher as nothing more than a facilitator/warden that shovel information at students, than there's not going to be much of a value to be seen.
But I'll tell you what - if I started teaching music or art again, I would charge at least $25 an hour - only because I don't have a degree or have music or art as my profession, but am good enough at both that I can teach someone - and have taught several - to be a highly successful professional in music or art. If I had a degree or my profession was in the arts - where I could network my students - I'd go up to $50, easily - scale up depending on how professional the student wanted to take it.
But I'm only going to be as good a teacher as my student wants to be a student, no matter how much I charge. It's not my fault, nor a liability to my business, if my student is a lazy pothead with delusions of greatness, or if I'm basically being paid to be a friendly face or a way to pass time with someone who has little talent but a lot of time and money.

So how much is a public school teacher working full time with 40 + children of varying skills and attention span worth again?
And don't make it a matter of public good - does the local fire department get criticized and penalized when they can't save a house after the owner passed out on a cheap, dirty couch with a still-burning cigarette?

Haele

[YvonneCa]

136. Thanks for this, karynnj. You just...

...described my life as a teacher, except I was teaching sixth grade. :hi:

[David Zephyr]

86. I've been very ill lately and am catching up with the news. This story floored me.

I don't even have a response as I'm so shocked.

[Bluebear]

87. Here is hoping just "here is some chicken soup and rest well" ill?

:hug:

[David Zephyr]

134. Thanks.

I've had acute bronchitis for two weeks, fever, chills, breathing problems. There's no sun anymore in California. Thanks for the hug. I needed it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. I am livid and regret deeply my vote for this man

If there is a march, I am there. :patriot:

[Celeborn Skywalker]

91. You know,

I used to support Obama. Through McClurkin and the bailouts and everything else, I still believed he was genuinely trying to make this a better country.

Now I see that he is just on the opposite side of the same corporate coin as the Republicans. The Democrats are now the party of right wing corporatists and the Republicans are the party of insane, theocratic, fascists.

Great choice we have, huh?

[Libertas1776]

93. Obama kissed my vote bye bye a long time ago...

but this really is icing on the cake.

[proud2BlibKansan]

96. Some very interesting facts in this article:

One problem is that the school has started over in various ways before, over and over. There have been, according to McLaughlin:

Seven principals during the past six years at the high school.

Twenty-six different administrators (including superintendents, assistant superintendents, principals, assistant principals, etc.) directly involved with the high school during the past five years.

Six months before the firings, the school underwent a massive restructuring into content-specific academies. Isn’t it a little early to know if they are working?

Meanwhile, school district officials have cited statistics to show how badly the students -- and therefore the teachers -- are doing at the school, though the teachers say they are exaggerated.

For example, it was said that half the students graduate. The teachers say that figure includes students who returned to their native countries (many after an illegal immigrant raid in New Bedford, Mass.), and left for another high school with an honors program (because the honors programs at Central Falls were eliminated).

Another figure thrown out was that 7 percent of 11th graders were proficient in math in 2009.

That is objectively, and sadly, low, but statistics don’t tell a whole story when they are without context.

Of the students at the school who participated in the New England Common Assessment Program, 22% were identified with Limited English proficiency with English as their second language, compared to 3% for the state. Twenty-three percent had an individualized education plandesigned for students with special needs, compared to the state average of 17% and 85% were classified as economically disadvantaged compared to the state average of 35%.

Meanwhile, the number of college applications by Central Falls High School seniors has tripled during the past 5 years, according to McLaughlin.

[MichiganVote]

103. This is a school board problem. 7 different principals in 6 years? Pathetic.

No wonder they can't make headway.

[Starry Messenger]

105. That might be a good OP.

I read that buried in another RI article last week. Evidently some people who have been following this closely in the local papers missed these salient facts.

[maryf]

117. Sounds like my district is heading this way...

5 principles in the past 4 years at the high school...second lowest in region in graduation rates...the ptb want to do away with public education, does cannon fodder really need to be educated? K&R

[flyarm]

107. and Unions as well and they have their annual meetings this week in Orlando..

anyone want to bet this will have the Unions folks tongues wagging? and pissssssed!!!

APFA retired.
SAG/AFTRA member

[Brickbat]

108. It's like Reagan and PATCO all over again. The air traffic controllers union endorsed that bastard

and look what they got.

[flyarm]

135. Yep and i can tell you as a flight crew at that time I argued with my union and other union leaders

in the airline industry that we should shut down the airspace in this country..and i and many like me were not listened to..therefore airline incomes dropped and we were put on an A/B salary structure..everyone hired after the Patco firing were hired and paid a much lower salary..which caused alot of heartache among the workers within the airlines..

All I can say to teachers is this..get and stay unified.

Because today it is these teachers jobs..tommorrow it could very well be yours!

Learn from the Patco strike and replacements.

Stand unified with these teachers..shut all schools down if you have to nationwide.

Stand together.

And tell Obama to STFU..and make him accountable for his support of this union busting tactic!

[Jester Messiah]

229. One key difference

The air traffic controllers were fired for engaging in union activity, striking.
The teachers were fired because they had a 7% student graduation rate. 7%. There is no excusing that kind of abysmal performance. It is simply unacceptable. I wouldn't hire a roofer who had a 7% rate of roofs that didn't collapse within a year; I sure as hell wouldn't trust any kid of mine to a school system with a 7% success rate.

[QC]

269. That's one of the worst analogies ever devised.

Admittedly, it is not as bad as comparing a war to a visit to the dentist's office, but it's still pretty weak.

Analogies only work when they compare things that are similar in significant ways. Teaching and roofing are not really similar. Children and shingles are not similar at all. Etc.

[Jester Messiah]

333. You seem to have missed the point.

That being that no matter what the field of endeavor, a 7% success rate is unacceptable. You may attack my admittedly poor analogy if you wish, but that doesn't change the truth behind it.

[depakid]

113. Not only was it a gratuitous slap- but it was aimed at appeasing the Chamber of Commerce!

Meanwhile, criticizing Bunning today was considered to be "too partisan," so he purposely left it out of the remarks.

Wow.

[RedCloud]

118. Exactly. Pigs off campus. Especially political pigs!

Just change math like this. Zero to the zero power is one. You have nothing and do nothing to it, you will get something.

Now kids, is math fucked up or what?

[gaspee]

119. The problems in Central Falls

Are of poverty, immigration status and English as a second language. You could put the best teachers in the world in that school and it would still face the same problems.

It's a societal problem, not a school problem, yet teachers get blamed.

I live in RI and Central Falls is about the poorest city in the state, with an extremely high latino population, both documented and undocumented.

[liberalhistorian]

125. Every day I am more and more glad that I did not

go into education. Having grown up with teachers as parents I saw the daily shit they went through for forty years and had no fucking intention whatsoever of becoming a part of it. And it's far worse now. My mother is very glad she retired when she did. Those of you who've never been teachers don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Teachers do not operate in a vacuum. They are not solely responsible for everything. The parents bear a huge share of responsibility. You cannot effectively teach children who are not adequately fed, clothed, treated, who are abused, neglected, ignored, involved in drugs, gangs, with parents who don't give a shit if they don't do their homework but who blame teachers if they don't pass the kids anyway, with parents who don't make their kids go to school and who don't care if they don't. High turnover and low attendance isn't exactly in their control, either. Teachers have them for very, very limited time compared to parents, especially in junior and senior high. And administrators are paid three times as much as teachers for doing far less work.

Unlike many other jobs, teachers don't have control over a lot of the factors that go into education of their students. Those of you who've never been in a classroom have no clue about that. I have rarely been more disappointed and disgusted with many DUers than I am regarding this issue.

[YvonneCa]

141. Thank you for your kind words in...

...support of teachers.

[Zoigal]

145. thank you, liberalhistorian, you summed it up nicely.

Was a teacher for forty years. Would never recommend anyone to go into the profession now....z

[liberalhistorian]

247. You're welcome, happy to do it.

I saw what it finally did to my parents and many of their colleagues. It's never been easy to be in the field, but now is the worst I've ever seen it. When you have even solid progressives and Democrats joining in on the war, when they have no clue what they're talking about, it's truly depressing. I agree, I would never recommend anyone to go into education now; my mother is especially strong on that. My stepdad is in a nursing home with early dementia; he had to retire early, in his late fifties, and rapidly went downhill from there. He never even got to enjoy any of his retirement after spending nearly forty years working his ass off for students and their families, with little appreciation.

[pecwae]

216. You couldn't be more correct.

The teaching environment has become more like a DMZ. One practically requires FBA to walk into a classroom and be skilled as a hostage negotiator to deal with parents when they charge in to accuse the teacher of failure when little Johnny doesn't pass.

I'm from a long line of teachers. I know what they've been through, what they're going through. I also know that there's not enough money in the world to get me into that thankless, ill paid and sometimes very dangerous profession.

[liberalhistorian]

248. Me either, I don't care what you paid me or what perks

you gave me. People always wonder why I didn't follow in my parents' footsteps and go into education. But I say it was precisely BECAUSE I saw my parents' footsteps, and where they led and what it did to them and what they went through daily, and for little understanding and appreciation, that I had and have no intention of doing so. Ever. I'll sub once in awhile, but that's about it.

[Political Heretic]

130. I DEPLORE Obama's attitude on teachers. It sickens me.

This is another example of Obama's stupid fucking ignorant false parities.

He assumes that both conservatives and liberals must have equally legitimate points on all subjects, and that his job is to recognize both sides' valid points and reach a compromise.

That's simply NOT always the case.

When it comes to our educational system, teachers have N E V E R been any significant part of our structural education problems. Ever. Blaming them, as conservatives do is not an "equally valid point."

It's

BULLSHIT.

Inadequate pay, shoddy treatment, inadequate investment into schools that serve more brown people than white people, and constant attempts to break the public education system by siphoning money out of it and into private or charter schools - these are the problems that are fifty times more responsible for our failing public education than teachers ever were.

The next time Obama opens his mouth in anything other than FULL THROATED SUPPORT of the hardest working, most sacrificing, most demonized people in all of our country, he can quite simply GO FUCK HIMSELF.

:rant:

[girl_interrupted]

146. K&R

[wordpix]

131. ya want to know what's REALLY going on in the schools?

Age (a.k.a social) promotion is killing the idea of "grade levels." Why even have grade levels, or schools for that matter, when you have 11th graders reading and writing on the 4th grade level, and everyone's ignoring that fact?

Yes, this is happening and it would be a relatively easy fix, but everyone wants to ignore it.

[upi402]

149. That's interesting

It makes sense on its face. But what explains how earlier students had better ability and success?

[wordpix]

263. their parents have better parenting skills--- that's mostly the answer---HOWEVER

That is a loaded answer b/c there's a lot to consider, for example, you might be a great parent, but you're poor and have to work 2-3 jobs, so you're not home much, so your child has to be in after school care or with a sitter who's not so good. OR you're a great parent but you're overworked and when you get home after an 8,10, 12 hr. day, you don't have much energy for your children. OR you're a great parent but your spouse just left you and now there's chaos in the home, you have to move, you go from 2 incomes to 1 and you're not paying attention to the children...

Or you're a great parent but you moved from another country and you and your children don't speak English and your kids are placed in a grade level based on their age, not their ability to do that grade level work without knowing the language.

On and on---there are lots of variables.

[eridani]

395. Well, if schools are supposed to be like businesses, then kids and

--parents are customers. If the customers insist on passing grades no matter what, the customer is always right.

[Maraya1969]

147. We get rid of bad politicians. If these teachers were allowing their 5th grade

students to read at a first grade level I blame them. I've been a substitute teacher and I learned that any praise given to a student makes them work harder. And that is just one thing I learned. I am sure there are plenty of new ways of teaching that can make our students at least in competition with the students from Europe. And now that these teachers were fired maybe the other bad ones will get cracking and become better at there jobs because they will realize that these kids depend on them for their future.

[roody]

150. He already has.

[SlingBlade]

151. Drip, Drip, Drip ...Deja Vu All over Again

"President Obama is going to alienate every school teacher in the United States."

He's lost or is in the process of losing large groups of Liberals, Progressives, Unions etc etc
And for what ? Joe Lieberman, Nelson, Lincoln, Blue Dogs and Re-thugs who will and have back stabbed
him over and over again, Or did they ?

Remind me once again, Where does the buck stop ?

K & R For Truth
And a spot on the ....
Democratic Party Suicide Prevention Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7764365

[tranche]

152. Leave us alone. Seriously?

This is what teachers are about these days? Give me a fucking break. If you stink it up year after year with no improvement in site, you get canned. Period, no whining or bitching about it. That's how it is in the real job market.

[Skittles]

153. yes

that's why we see buttloads of bank managers and wall street ripoffs getting canned

[EFerrari]

173. That's what Eric Prince said and why Black Water is out of business.

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

168. Except that didn't happen in that case.

That's what Obama said and he said it in error. From the AFT's response:

What's even sadder is that the firings and the President's comments come in spite of a state report written last April that focused on the high school's reading and writing proficiency, which have gone up 22 percent and 14 percent respectively over the past two years. Nowhere in the report is there any criticism of teachers' efforts, skills or dedication to their job or their students. The report does, however, point to problems with constantly changing programs and the instability of school leadership. The report reinforces the fact that, today, teachers are being blamed unfairly for the schools' problems.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/03/obama_criticized_by_aft_for_co.html

Real job market, my granny. It doesn't get more real than a president humiliating a group of teachers on television based on a fallacy. How many more chances to "stink things up" does Obama get?

[Skittles]

181. this is the ultimate worst in political posturing

it is downright cowardice

[EFerrari]

187. He's signalling that he'll sign off on privatizing what's left of our system.

We're screwn.

[Hissyspit]

188. And if YOU were incompetent and/or were constantly being replaced

and/or your board was doing ridicoulous incompetent capricious things and your employees were constantly being made the scapegoat, you would be surprised that you employees might be thinking 'why do you just leave us alone?'

More: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7831790

[mr1956]

165. Too bad President Obama doesn't speak in 30-second sound bytes

Reading the actual remarks, in context, gives a different reading than many of the remarks on this board suggest.

If you care to read it yourself and come to your own conclusion, click on the link.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-americas-promise-alliance-education-event

[EFerrari]

167. It's too bad Obama doesn't bother to hire fact checkers that can spare him

from making blunders of this magnitude.

[Bluesbreaker]

178. Okay, I read it

And my opinion hasn't changed. Obama is a product of one of the wealthiest private schools in the country (Punahou in Honolulu, HI).
The school is a pillar of elitism. Obama looks down his nose on public schools, like all Punahou grads. That's why I will work to defeat Obama in 2012, and until then, I'll spend all the time I have available pointing out his duplicity and support for corporations and the wealthy over the working and middle classes.

In his remarks, it's clear Obama is blaming the teachers, instead of telling the school district to come up with the funds to do it right. His priority is not to make education a top priority and fund it accordingly. It's to do it on the cheap to avoid taxing his wealthy campaign contributors and the DLC types.

The district in question is composed largely of hispanic immigrants, with a large number of transient families. You should take the time to read the comments made by the students, many of whom consider their teachers to be a force for stability in their lives.

It's very difficult for teachers to get students to perform at grade level when they don't speak English or speak it as a second language. Many students drop out because their families move. Yet Obama and Duncan see these students' academic problems as a reflection on the teachers.

The standardized tests Obama and Duncan love are a poor measure of teacher performance. It would be much better if the measure was based on a student's progress throughout the year. If a student comes to school with a poor reading score and improves by 50% by the end of the year that should be cause for praise, but it isn't if the student is still scoring below the national average, which is normed to students coming from stable homes and violence-free neighborhoods.

Obama is the worst Democratic president in the past 100 years. He's more like Ronald Reagan who fired the air traffic controllers than FDR, who stood with working people against Wall Street.

[Skittles]

184. he sure can pony up the bucks for bankers and endless wars though

[rpannier]

185. Obama should read the article linked by the OP

Because he has very little idea of many of the facts surrounding this school

[Chulanowa]

169. Well... That's about the stupidest shit I've heard of Obama doing

I certainly don't expect perfection like some, but c'mon, that's just blatantly stupid.

[ShortnFiery]

208. It's not stupid, but PROFITABLE to turn every damn school into a "for profit" endeavor.

Wake up to the fact that members of our own party value "big money" above the welfare of the average Wage-earning American.

The ruling politicos of BOTH PARTIES have given their loyalties are to the Multi-national corporations, NOT their constituents, NOT their party ... or hell NOT even their Country. They're MULTI-NATIONAL CORPORATE WHORES, plain and simple.

[Chulanowa]

306. Sorry, you seem to have mistaken my intent

I was tossing out criticism of the president. You seem to have taken it as a cue to do some Alex Jones-style proselytizing. Not interested, thanks, and keep your pamphlet.

[democrank]

170. K & R

for reply #10

[pundaint]

179. If Obama hasn't alienated you yet, you haven't been paying attention.

[jeanpalmer]

192. Obama believes he has overpowering rhetorical abilities

If he says something, people believe it. That's what he knew going into his campaign when he told Harry Reid he had "the gift," and that's what he learned during the campaign that he could say damn near anything and get people to believe it. The fact that he threw a lot of what he said overboard doesn't change things because he knows he has a cult like following who will believe anything. He can criticize teachers and union members now, and two years from now give a speech somewhere about how great teachers are and all will be forgiven and forgotten. Mostly forgotten, or simply not absorbed by many. Some people won't forget, but they'll be few in numbers. Especially when people have to face the alternative. Obama is 100% sure of that, and he will be proved correct on that. They've done the calculation.

[boppers]

196. "Leave us alone"?

Hi, teachers.

Welcome to accountability.

Sucks to be graded, doesn't it?

[Hannah Bell]

199. You need to read this before you spout off from a position of complete ignorance:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7830386

[boppers]

201. I read that thread tonight. I also responded.

Sucks to be graded, doesn't it?

Teachers who *for years* blamed their students for a lack of progress are being held accountable.

The really telling bit in the mess is math scores. Math knows no language... which is why it's math.

[Hannah Bell]

205. You're saying algebra, geometry & calculus can be taught without language?

And most high school students will catch on? Including those who missed something in grade school or jr high?

Okey dokey, whatever you say, bright boy.

[boppers]

206. Are you saying that math depends on language?

pi has no language, neither does sine, cosine, etc.

Pity that in your world people can't learn math, because it depends on language.

To learn numbers.

Do you work in Rhode Island?

[Hannah Bell]

207. No, I asked you if you were saying it could be taught without language

under the constraints of a US classroom (e.g. at least 17-30 students per class, at varying levels, taught by one teacher & maybe an aide)?

I notice you didn't answer *that* question.

If so, teach me some algebra now. No words, just the numbers & figures you could write on a blackboard.

Come on, it's just one student, it ought to be a snap.

[boppers]

211. ||||||| . ||| = ||||||||||||||||||||||

||||||| . (?) = ||||||||||||||

This is the stuff Raven tests are made of.

[Hannah Bell]

212. you lose.

[boppers]

214. Yaaay! Do I get a participation certificate!

Maybe a hug?

[Hannah Bell]

218. tell me, is that supposed to be 7 X 3 = 21? if so, it's not algebra.

& you have 22 lines in the answer.

for starters. then, your little "find x" problem - wtf is the point of the little stick thingees? do they already know 1,2,3,4, or do they not? if they don't know what numbers are, why are you trying to teach them to "find x"?

[boppers]

221. Oh my, it *is* 22 pipe characters!

Imagine if only characters were representations, and not an actual meaning of anything specific! That could totally mess up fractions and decimals, if only integers existed! Even worse, unknown "numbers" could be confused if their numbers weren't known beforehand!

Do you know that trailing "|" equals +1?
Do you know that trailing "|" equals -1?

....

All that being said, it was a typo, but if children are being taught to think in limited ways when they're young, it's no surprise they don't advance in their thinking. Simply compare children who learn base two, *and* base ten, vs. children who only learn base ten.

[donco6]

258. You do realize teachers don't get to pick the curriculum, right?

They get to teach whatever they're given. And if they don't teach it with fidelity, it's a mark on their evaluation. Hopefully, their curriculum is rich and varied, as you described. But it's not likely.

Some states set their curriculum at the state level (TX, CA). They even buy the textbooks and ship them to the schools based on estimated pupil counts. There is no freedom to introduce much into your classroom.

[Hannah Bell]

339. you miss the point entirely, not surprisingly.

your assignment was to teach me some algebra without language: from the pov of a non-english speaking 15-year-old who's just been placed in your high school classroom of 25 students, all of whom are at different stages of understanding.

your little lesson, even ignoring the "typo," already assumes students' prior learning - about math concepts and teaching methods both. you started in the middle of a process which builds on itself: without the foundation, incomprehension.

you didn't "teach" anything: you wrote out a math problem in an alternate notation. if kids don't *already* understand what you're doing, and you can't catch them up on the background & instructions -- using *language* -- you're going to have to write out about 50 more before they start catching on purely by analyzing the patterns.

good luck in getting them to stay attentive while you do.

[mzteris]

234. based on the frequency

and time of postings, I'd say this one doesn't work at all.

[Hannah Bell]

331. The tireless charter school promoter who boasts of having me on "ignore" can't stop talking about me

-- i wonder what the point of having me on "ignore" is?

the complete bankruptcy of her routine resort to personal attack is duly noted.

[GeorgeGist]

253. You really are stupid

[nashville_brook]

344. these are hard times for supporters of Obama's failing education strategy.

[nashville_brook]

345. these are hard times for supporters of Obama's failing education strategy.

[GeorgeGist]

251. Obama is failing.

[LWolf]

222. .

"is going to" should be "has."

:grr:

[craigmatic]

235. I have to agree with the thread starter. Alot of the problems with our schools today is the parents

not helping their own kids or teaching them how to behave. How can you expect teachers to do it all when parents don't do shit at home?

[peace13]

236. I am amazed at the number of posts here and yet nowhere is Obama's actual quote.

I read the article and I see the author taking a word from what Obama said but what was the context? Why do people get so upset before they find out what was really said?

[donco6]

261. It's been posted quite a bit, but here you go.

Speaking at an event intended to highlight his strategy for turning around struggling schools by offering an increase in federal funding for local districts that shake up their lowest-achieving campuses, Obama called the controversial firings justified.

"If a school continues to fail its students year after year after year, if it doesn't show signs of improvement, then there's got to be a sense of accountability," he said. "And that's what happened in Rhode Island last week at a chronically troubled school, when just 7 percent of 11th-graders passed state math tests -- 7 percent."

The board that oversees Central Falls High School took the startling step last week of firing 93 teachers and other staff members after the teachers union refused to agree to a plan for them to work a longer school day and provide after-school tutoring without much extra pay

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103560.html

[peace13]

270. Thanks for that.

I agree with his statement. I am sorry that the board could not come up with a solution that was palatable to the teachers.

[donco6]

271. Yeah, guess it sucks to be that band teacher.

Oh well.

[peace13]

277. I don't live in the world of education but I have lived with 9 years of depression in Ohio.

Businesses fail, good workers get laid off and people lose everything. It happens in every walk. I do think that teachers have had security in the past but unfortunately they are out here with the rest of us now. Performance means something and we all have to work together to make it happen. The band teacher was caught in a crack unfortunately. I am sure that many of those who were fired were good teachers caught in a bad situation. It is sad for everyone.

[Hannah Bell]

390. not for the wall streeters forming private education corps. they're loving that steady stream

of taxpayer money.

[peace13]

404. If the parents and the teachers would have stood up to NCLB we would not be here.

The educated parents and the teachers that knew this was wrong needed to act but we Americans sit we don't act and that is what the administration counts on. Little pharmacies are gone now for just that same reason. We let the insurance companies dictate and then the only thing left is CVS. Change takes action and we don't have it in the US. I have been on the Mall many a time and the 'turnout to speak out' is very sad.

Wall Street is an infection but Main Street needs to fight it.

[activa8tr]

237. This is another completely botched situation, another Gates-arrest type

mis-statement by the President, who should have kept his mouth shut

The President should not micromanage local districts, but trust the process and the laws of the land to handle the situation.

I'm reserving judgment on Duncan, but not for long, I think HE probably blew this, too, allowing a school district to fire ALL
teachers at one school doesn't seem to me to be the way to handle something like this.

As some pointed out, letting the band teacher, the Latin teacher, etc be fired for the mere fact of low math scores...pretty over the top.

ANOTHER MORE REASONABLE APPROACH..would have been to send in some "expert" experienced successful teachers/principals, etc who have actually TURNED A SCHOOL AROUND, and paid for THAT help with federal $... in some sort of pilot demonstration project. The superintendent could also have sat down personally with each and every failing teacher, (there were only 90 total so maybe this would have required sitting down with 40 of them, at most), and attempted to get THEM to reform or leave by year's end. Of course, maybe the Unions prohibit this, I'm not sure.

AND YES, I think the Union negotiators failed this situation, certainly as much as the President did, as much as Duncan did, as much and the Superintendent and the teachers did. Problems like this need solutions, not mass firings, sewing more seeds of distrust between all parties involved, starting more rumors, (like several posted on this thread... E.G. Duncan wants to privatize education.)

This situation in Central Falls, if it were NOT a total failure of all systems, local, state, federal, even Presidential, BEFORE this week....NOW it's a total failure in our nation!

Remember "YES WE CAN!"????

My opinion. SHAME on all involved for not acting like adults who CAN work together to solve problems!

[lonestarnot]

238. What a fucking nightmare!

[Generic Other]

241. Proud2BLibKansan posted some interesting FACTS about CF--link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7830386

[scentopine]

242. I guess this leaves only the "centrist" right wingers as his supporters....

Obama is trying to pull a Reagan - Reagan fired aircraft controllers based on their extremely reasonable demands on working conditions. Obama, being the shrewd chess player, is following in his footsteps - punish the poor reward the rich. Yep we are a stupid ignorant people because its the teacher's fault. Meanwhile there is so much stress at home with low wages, job loss, no medical care, how can parents be involved in the education process? Schools are not surrogate parents - what the fuck is wrong with the democratic leadership?

Meanwhile those of us who worked hard to get a great education are finding a literal hemorrhage of jobs to Asia where labor markets are unskilled, but more importatntly, unregulated.

So Obama gets bonus points for focusing on the wrong end of the problem - thereby distracting us from the real problems of greed and the parasitic culture being nurtured here in USA.

He's playing chess and we are just pawns.

[CLANG]

243. You mean they hadn't been alienated already?

I guess they can join the rest of us then. I really think it is WRONG to hold teachers responsible for poverty, drugs, and broken homes. This world is so upside down!:mad: :wtf:

[lutefisk]

250. While we're at it, let's blame oncologists for their patients' conditions

And the "best" oncologists would be the ones who work with patients who don't have cancer . . . fire the rest of them.

[CLANG]

262. Could you imagine the cost savings!

[AllyCat]

245. I am at a loss for what to think about this President anymore

[earcandle]

256. The marketing ploy that got Obama elected demonstrated how powerful Americans can be when inspired

to action.  Let us act in our own behalf, instead of for one
person. Let us act collectively with power, knowledge and
spirit. 

[suffragette]

264. So, bailed-out banks paid large bonuses to keep "talented staff" who had caused

their problems in the first place.

Yet, teachers and staff who work for much, much less in extremely challenging conditions were turning around the situation at this school and for these students and they're fired.

Consistency, fairness, priorities?

Backwards, if you ask me.

[EFerrari]

289. KBR just got rewarded for electrocuting our troops with a 2.8 BILLION $ contact.

[suffragette]

321. It's union busting and privatizing

It's happening nationwide and it's disgusting.

In the meantime, corrupt private industry like KBR, Wall Street, and Blackwater (under other names) continue to receive staggering amounts of our tax money through corporate welfare.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-isenberg/the-get-out-of-jail-and-s_b_482581.html

"The Get Out of Jail and Stay on Contract Free Card"

For them, avoid prosecution and keep receiving giant contract pay-outs.

For our teachers, destroy their unions and kick them out the door.

[Quezacoatl]

265. Obama truly screwed this one up.

It's becoming so sad to watch him fail time and time again.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

266. Over 250 replies, and nobody thought

to make

:popcorn:

:hi:

[butterfly77]

268. Too bad ..

You can't win them all

[valerief]

272. I want to believe in him, but I'm afraid you're right. I really didn't want a Republican prez. nt

[ncteechur]

273. Are you guys kidding me? These teachers were not getting the job done and were given the

opportunity to do some additional things to help and THEY refused.

They were rightly fired.

You just prove that doing the right thing is sometimes not the popular thing.

[CBR]

278. OK. I have avoided these topics because my husband teaches

at an "evil" laboratory school. This lab school serves all natural foods, has a robust special education program, attempts to maintain income and racial balance and provides alot of family/community/teacher programs. He makes no where near what these teachers make (or local public education teachers for that matter) -- he is college educated with all the certifications.

He is not turning on the President and neither are his co-workers. I think schools of all type should be uniting around issues but there seems to be a big division amongst teachers depending on the type of school they teach at.

In the city where I live, many students are bused 45 minutes - 1 hour to suburban high schools due to the redistricting of the 1970s. These students are flocking to the charter schools for options.

[eridani]

397. And they can kick out any student who causes too much trouble, right? n/t

[CBR]

398. Technically, I guess they could but they don't. My husband works through

intensive processes if there is a child having problems. He often get "problem" students placed in his class if another teacher is having trouble.

It really is a great school with great teachers.

[McCamy Taylor]

279. There goes another piece of the base.

[DURHAM D]

370. Yep - Obama may be failing math as well. nt

[1776Forever]

281. Can someone tell me if they agree this points to paying for Private Schooling?

I have seen this going that way for so long and I for one don't think this is the way to go. I am for the public school programs! There are so many home schooled and religious based schools now. Everything seems to be pointing to that and the funding to them that has been withheld for years. I think President Obama may be out of touch with the problems that are facing teachers now days. I know myself that a lot of children are just left out of any kind of future because they give up and we have a whole lot of young adults out there with no skills to move on to good job with now and it is getting worse! I know that General Powell is a Republican but I think he and his wife seem to be on mark with their program:

Powells Campaign to Keep Kids in School

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/colin-powell-discusses-grad-nation-campaign-9985917

[CoffeeCat]

284. I specifically remember Obama saying...

...during his campaigning--that NCLB was "an unfunded mandate".

He repeatedly told educators that they needed more support, and that
the NCLB requirements needed to be supported with funds and other kinds of
support for teachers. Otherwise, NCLB was a failure--"an unfunded mandate".

I was a precinct captain for Obama, and I had a few educators in my
precinct who were undecided. I pulled them over to Obama's camp by
reading directly from Obama's "Blueprint for America". In that
document he was very clear that NCLB was underfunded and that
the government needed to be more supportive in helping teachers
reach those NCLB benchmarks.

Clearly, this is NOT what has happened. Education is being cut
like a Thanksgiving turkey. Where is that support? At my child's
elementary school, all associates in the kindergarten and first-grade
classes were fired, due to lack of funds. So...teachers are supposed
to do MORE with less??? Kindergarten teachers are supposed to have
these 5 year olds reading by November, with no support? It's CRAZY!

In fact, praising the firing of those teachers is praising an
action that was caused by the underfunding of NCLB. If we want
to truly support teachers--we must give them benchmarks but also
the funds and resources to meet those goals. We certainly shouldn't
be celebrating teachers who get fired because they weren't supported
with resources that Obama promised them on the campaign trail.

OUT FRICKIN RAGEOUS!

[QC]

297. He said a lot of smart, sensible things during the campaign.

Since then, well, that's another story.

[liberation]

328. Those things seemed sensible simply because he lacked all sorts of specifics in his speeches

Giving an immense benefit of the doubt, it sounds as if he was deliberately being vage in order to allow everyone to project their expectations. Obama seems now to be more interested in building a political brand and getting votes, than in following up or even delivering on those speeches... vague as they were.


To this day, there are intense debates in this forum in regards to what Obama does or does not stand for. And I believe a lot of that nickering is due to Obama being vague in his stands on purpose.


However, if we make a clear analysis of what he has done so far... a pattern emerges in which we can make a case that while he seems to have a fantastic hard time listening to and compromising with progressive points of view, he doesn't seem to have the same difficulty in yielding and incorporating conservative policy items. And if anyone disagrees, I would like them to present one example, a single one will suffice, in which Obama took a milquetoast policy and pumped it up to be more compliant with the wishes and expectations of progressives. Go ahead...

[QC]

387. Yes, he has a rare gift for making each person in the audience think

that he or she is being addressed directly.

He really does remind me of a clever graduate student taking orals. He knows that one of the professors is a Lacanian, another an admirer of Bakhtin, and the third an avid Deconstructionist, so he tailors his answers to please all of them.

[Puglover]

401. +1

Your post says very nicely what I've thought for a long time. Obama is a politician, nothing more, nothing less. Is he an improvement over that thing that was in office 8 years prior? HUGE IMPROVEMENT! Would I like to see a real progressive in office? I sure would.

[DukeT]

285. Give me a break . . leave us alone - to do your job poorly?

Correct me if I am wrong . . . but weren't school admins were fired along with the teachers? From what I heard about the situation, both are responsible. One thing that teachers are going to have to realize is that they NEED to be held accountable for the education (or lack thereof) of their students.

You know as well as most of us, that there is a sizable number of teachers that shouldn't be teaching - esp ones that have reached tenure and are just going through the motions. The ramifications of allowing that to continue (students that are uneducated but are still funneled through like animals for slaughter in today's world) is unacceptable. I am a firm believer in merit-only pay increases for teachers (and admin) and weeding out of teachers (and admins) that are just going through the motions. If their students fail - teachers and admins SHOULD be held responsible!

Of course, admin (principals etc) can have an even greater impact on how well a school educates its students, but just like in many private industry, the incompetent and lazy - need to be terminated - and the teachers and admins that are doing more than just a good job (educating their students) need to be rewarded. BTW, I might add that everyone should be expected to do a good job. Performing above that level is the only thing that merits rewards.

Failing to properly educate a student will have consequences for a very long time. If admins are keeping you from doing your job, then march/demonstrate against them so that you can do your job properly (in short - accurately identify the obstacles that keep you from doing your job - and that is not the Federal gov't and/or Pres Obama).

"Leave us alone" -- give us a break! Only if your students are surpassing global educational levels (here is clue - American students are lagging behind most other countries in educational levels - even tho' we spend more than most of those countries).

If you cannot produce that - we are going to be all over you! In short . . .if you are doing your job poorly . . . you will lose it! We don't care many children you have in college or how big your mortgage payments are (etc).

[EFerrari]

291. If that's what you've been hearing, you haven't heard the whole story.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7830386&mesg_id=7830386

[donco6]

323. This is really enormous thread with lots of good stuff in it.

I highly recommend reading a lot more of it. It answers many of your statements.

[Jim__]

287. It's not only school teachers. Every working man and woman should be alienated.

We all have to stick together. If they can pick on one set of workers, they can pick on another. Reagan started this when he fired the Air Traffic Controllers. There should have been a national strike in protest then. We should all respond to this in a way that sends "bosses" everywhere a very clear message.

[wroberts189]

298. "if he has not done so already" nt

[defendandprotect]

312. They're also after busting up this huge union -- American Federation of Teachers . . .

and Obama is doing a major part of the dirty work for them --

including backing Charter schools -- !!!

Why did we vote for Democrats? Remind me, please . . . !!!

[madrchsod]

361. because we knewt the other side would be worse....

the democrats give us a half a loaf of bread and the republicans give us the crumbs.

[defendandprotect]

383. Nah . . . they're giving us crumbs and many are still worshipping the crumb-givers!!

[totodeinhere]

324. We need to make it easier to fire bad teachers.

Here where I live it's almost impossible to fire incompetent teachers. Yes, the vast majority of teachers are good and hard working, but a few rotten apples are spoiling the whole barrel and we have got to come up with a better more efficient way to get rid of the bad ones. Our children deserve no less.

[fatbuckel]

341. bad teachers

the teachers here in Youngstown are mostly terrible.You want job security?Do your job good.

[EFerrari]

360. Wrong. That school got a good report from the state last time out.

[donco6]

343. The disruptors have done their job. The lock is on its way.

Thanks for playing everyone!

[mzteris]

348. you mean the ones who say abandon

Obama. Abandon the Democratic Party?

[donco6]

350. No need to stalk anymore.

It's the end of a great thread. Just let it go.

[mzteris]

351. funny -

you posted to me, did you not? I'm merely responding.

Nice tactic to divert the fact your POV is the one to blame for locking.

This is the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. Not the "I only support Democrats who do what I want Underground!" :rofl:


edit typo

[EFerrari]

362. It's possible that you don't know what "democratic" means.

It's possible.

[mzteris]

374. possible, but unlikely.

and - I know what this board is supposed to stand for.

Seems like a lot of people lately around here, don't.

Me, me, me, me, me, me!!

There's a bigger picture and diverse problems and little money and no cooperation. You try herding cats while the dogs are chasing them and the gate is open and birds of prey swoop down - and THEN - your own people just give up because you wouldn't chase only the grey cats or the black cats or the striped cats!

[Hannah Bell]

391. funny how you only post on threads related to charter schools. i guess public $$ to private corps =

democracy -- to some people.

[QC]

356. Once he gets through making the Republicans love him, he won't need the teachers.

It's more of that chess.

[Bluebear]

357. When is checkmate declared?

[QC]

388. When there is nothing left in the country not owned by a corporation. n/t

[northofdenali]

358. Is it possible that our President

made these remarks before knowing the whole situation?

If not, I am disappointed in his attitude and will write the White House about this. It is one thing to encourage a better educational system for our nation; it is entirely different to blame teachers, especially in this case.

[YvonneCa]

363. I hope you do write that letter. You might also want to...

read at Ed.gov (the blog...go to Listening Tour Online's oldest postings to hear teacher/educator voices). I still support President Obama...but not his school turnaround policy. Good teachers are being unfairly targeted...and that is wrong, IMHO.

[northofdenali]

367. Will do both (I'm composing as we chat!)

I am a strong Obama supporter and worked my ass off in this very, very red state for him. This was a huge disappointment to me.

Which reminds me, where is the NEA in all this? Our union-busting repukes up here have greatly limited any union's power to act, but I think they are stronger in the Lower 48?

[YvonneCa]

371. So far, the NEA is pretty silent. I'd guess that they...

...agree with much of Obama's education policy, but so much has been done under the radar that there is little need for them to stand up on any one issue. I think many teachers are just now waking up to this. With the imminent re-authorization of ESEA (NCLB), we should start to hear more...I hope.

Good luck on your letter. :)

[mrmpa]

386. NEA not radical enough & they're responsible for many problems

Don't get me wrong it's a strong union, but it doesn't like upsetting the apple cart. The NEA likes to go with the flow, every new practice is okay. It bit into the NLCB hook, line and sinker. It never gave a thought as how it was going to affect union members. Well Rhode Island should be the wake up call. It it isn't then union members are SOL.

[EFerrari]

364. Yes, it is possible. And I hope you call the White House

and ask that question, it's a perfectly legit one but it needs to be asked. There are many jobs at stake here, not to mention, all those children that will be shipped out like so much refuse to some other school. :(

202 456-1111

[northofdenali]

366. Done.

Of course, one must leave a message, but if there are a few million of us? Reckon they'll get the idea?

My state (Alaska) has the highest dropout rate and one of the lowest literacy rates in the nation. When I was going to school here, the stats were exactly the opposite; since the repukes took over in the 70's Pipeline/Big Oil boom, our tax base has gone to shit, and education funding is dismal. Why don't we fire the fucking Repuke Antitaxers instead of teachers? (I had some of the best teachers ever in high school - and my AP courses were TOUGH.)

[EFerrari]

377. Thanks! I went to a great public school system

and by the time my little brother was half way done, I didn't recognize it. Gosh, we had art and music and Spanish classes, PE every day and an after school girls league that was real AND free. A full time nurse AND a school psychologist/learning spec who was wonderful. A library with one full time and two part time librarians. It was like heaven only with color paper and hand outs. lol.

By the time my brother got there, half of all that was gone. By the time my kids went through, that school was gone and they were bunched up at another struggling school. Thank you, Ronald Raygun!

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

372. Can we fire the SCOTUS and Congress and Prez, for not doing THEIR job??!! EOM

[JTFrog]

406. Don't they teach about the executive, legislative and judicial branches in school anymore?

:eyes: