I've confirmed 4 of my newphews teachers told him he could pass the 10th grade with D's,...

[uponit7771]

...I'm going to call and talk to every one of them and ask them why they would tell a 10th grader something like that when for it's not true and that type of information can demotivated many 16yr old boys who aren't being motivated anywhere else.


The school district he attends is one of the worst school districts in the country with one of the worst records, I'm seriously thinking about paying for him to go to private school...


Any suggestions on the conversation would be welcomed....


TIA

P.S. It's not true that he can pass to the 11th grade with all D's the district will NOT pass a student with anything below 1.9 GPA, even if it was...why would you tell a 10th grader something like that?!

[XemaSab]

1. D's get degrees

It's a low pass, but it's still a pass.

[stopbush]

31. D is a passing grade, but Ds on a HS transcript will keep you out of a 4-year college.

It's that simple.

[XemaSab]

40. We're not talking about Harvard

We're talking about 10th grade.

[stopbush]

97. What's the problem? All I'm saying is that you will pass HS with Ds on your HS transcript,

but that those Ds will keep you from being admitted to a 4-year college.

[Codeine]

42. It should not be

A D should never be acceptable.

[XemaSab]

62. So you think it should go directly from C to F?

F is failing; the other grades are passing.

[Codeine]

85. Yes I do.

I don't think a 60% grade should ever be considered a passing grade.

[backscatter712]

66. In my university, they've raised the standards.

Most degree programs don't consider D's to be acceptable, and won't give you the degree unless you get C's or better in the program classes.

[etherealtruth]

160. When I pursued my degree one had to have a 3.0 in all major classes

... and a 2.0 in everything else .... sheesh

[liberal N proud]

2. All they are concerned with is getting him out the door

Education in public schools is a numbers game.

[Zoeisright]

7. FAIL.

Some kids refuse to work, no matter what. Teachers can stand on their heads and some kids won't work.

I can tell you've never been a teacher or have been related to one.

What a dumb statement.

[liberal N proud]

Motivation

What motivates the child.


"I can tell you've never been a teacher or have been related to one." Now that is a dumb statement, making assumptions about others. We all know what happens when you assume.

[seabeyond]

9. how about the kid that did D work? nt

[liberal N proud]

39. There may be a reason the student is getting D's

It may be that he/she has trouble paying attention, a condition that should and can be dealt with without punishing the student.

The reason may be a simple as getting assignments turned in, and sometimes just getting their name on the assignment they turn in.

Schools don't investigate why a student is under-preforming, they just shuffle them off. (kick the can down out the door and down the road).

[seabeyond]

73. this is TENTH grade. not 2nd. if the kid has learning issues, parents should be well informed

and taking appropriate and worthwhile means in helping the kid. teaching the kid how to address the weakness.

there is not an adult with an adult child at all times to take care of the kids. by 10th grade these things should be addressed. at some point, this is on the kids shoulders, exclusively. and the parents.

the schools are set up in all kinds of manners to allow kids and parents to be informed of progress. for it to be the point of FOUR d's, the kid and the parents are not doing their part

just what do you want from the teachers. to actually do the work for the kid?

[rfranklin]

19. Are you siding with the home schoolers and the corporate charter schoolers?

Because neither of those is the solution.

[liberal N proud]

29. What I see is failure at the administration level

They don't allow teachers to give an extra effort to help those kids who need it.

I have a daughter who is in the 10th grade with ADHD. With a little extra effort on both the teacher and our part, she gets good grades. Break any link in there and her grades are D's at best.

We have a 504 Plan registered with the school, but unless we send email weekly they will not enforce the 504 Plan. They did not inform her teachers of it as I learned in a Parent Teacher conference when the teacher said she was doing poorly, the teacher was shocked to hear she had a plan.

It is not the teacher responsibility to know the plan is in place and the administration does not want me to contact each teacher to let them know, yet they failed to do the job.

The solution is for school administrations to start caring about teaching and not so much about policing the hallways. Teach and the hallways will take care of themselves.

[seabeyond]

80. my oldest has had learning issues too. we have dealt with them since kindergarten

he is a freshman. and not ALL teachers patiently guide him thru life in understanding. most do. but the few that havent have been excellent learning examples and opportunities for him to see HE has to take responsibility. that regardless of the teacher, it is HIS grade. regardless of teacher patience with him, HE will suffer or have the reward. he is freshman and now clearly understands. and is taking that responsibility. he had a lot of years to understand his issues and work on them.

[pitohui]

111. out of curiosity, what's the use of that really, liberal and proud?

you make this claim -- With a little extra effort on both the teacher and our part, she gets good grades. Break any link in there and her grades are D's at best.

if yr daughter has to have her hand held to get good grades instead of the Ds, then her degree means nothing anyway -- she might get hired for a job but she won't keep the job, for in the real world no one has time to hold yr hand to keep you going -- someone else will be put in that job who doesn't need the hand holding

it seems like you have a gimmick whereby, for now, yr daughter can "succeed" at high school but that's all it is -- a gimmick to put off the inevitable failure at life

i dont know what the answer is either but asking administrators and teachers to hold yr daughter's hand in 10th grade is not a real solution, it's a fake one so that you can pretend that there isn't a genuine problem

in college, and in the workplace, it's down to you, and if you can't motivate yourself from within, it don't matter what that you were in the high school honor society

the OP's nephew's Ds are bad, don't get me wrong, but at least he knows where he stands in life, if yr daughter is in reality a D student when she isn't propped up on all sides, then she has a bad crash coming in adulthood

if a person doesn't have any kind of internal motivator by 10th grade, when they're 15 or 16, then they're pretty much screwed (aimless, purposeless) for life in my observation, or else they're vulnerable to destructive props like religion or alcohol

[mzteris]

35. they could be, of course.

(Correction - FYI - they're PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS)

Some kids do better in different settings with different methodology. Maybe he needs something different from what he's getting? (Sounds like he does if he's getting advice like that from his "teachers").

[arcadian]

3. Last time I checked, a D is a passing grade.

Maybe your nephew should study harder.

[4lbs]

21. Yes, but at least in the high school I attended 23 years ago, they wouldn't graduate anyone that

didn't have at least a 2.0 GPA.

Now if the student had a few D grades, but still an overall 2.0 GPA or better, they could graduate. Any F's though, and they couldn't.

[uponit7771]

38. EXACTLY!!!!

[Tailormyst]

4. Because it's true?

60 is a passing grade. If he asked what a passing grade was and they told him 60, what's the problem?

I have a feeling I am missing part of your story, maybe you could elaborate.

[Fumesucker]

5. In my state as far as I know a D is a passing grade..

And an F is a failing grade..

[mzteris]

45. in my house -

i was in college before i figured out that "C's" weren't failing grades. Just AVERAGE. Of course in my house, average was considered failing. :shrug:

[Zoeisright]

6. A D is a passing grade.

Why would the teachers lie to the kid? It's the truth.

And if it's one of the 'worst schools', what are you doing to make it better? Do you vote for more money for the schools? What's the budget like? Have there been huge cuts there?

[seabeyond]

8. because he asked if d's would pass him and the teachers didnt lie.... you are on the teachers ass?

how about shifting blame to your nephew for having four d's and tell him, not good enough, get his fuckin ass in gear

a private school isnt going to do the work for your nephew either

[FormerDittoHead]

10. In my college, a "D" in your major is a FAIL.

At least it used to be. "D's" could NOT be applied toward a given degree if that was a required class in your major.

So it's not universal.

Drexel University Grad.

[seabeyond]

12. that is college. not high school. never has been lower grades. nt

[Fumesucker]

Umm... The kid is in high school.. n/t

[uponit7771]

So is my cousins kids middle school here in Texas and my nephew school wont allow passing with all D

[seabeyond]

82. why are you blaming the school? why arent you blaming your nephew?

this make no sense to me one bit.

this is exactly what i see in the schools. they are busting their ass off to do all this shit and the parent whines when little johnie doesnt do what he is suppose to do and they blame the school

[Quantess]

96. My thoughts exactly.

+1

[seabeyond]

101. can you believe? i havent seen it so blatantly. geeeez. that kid is going to take this attitude

thru out life. everything he does, he gets to be lazy, non production adn gets to "blame" someone else. talk about setting this kid up for life

[Quantess]

122. Blaming the teachers is an all too common cop-out.

I taught High School briefly, and more than a few of the students were lazy, dependent, not interested in learning, and seemed to want everything spoon-fed to them.

But also, I had some students with learning disabilities who accomplished quite a lot despite some difficulties. They were self-motivated (or their parents kept on them), and they had a much better attitude.

Teaching High School was the worst job of my life. I quit after 1 year.

[seabeyond]

AP classes, lol. i understand that is the place to be. lol. much different mentality in those

classes.

i hear ya

[uponit7771]

137. I'm blaming them for telling him false demotivating information not his bad grades

[seabeyond]

139. because of your nephews already clear irresponsible behavior, i suggest your nephews is telling you

a story adn probably did not happen as you are seeing.

i do not see a teacher "lying" about a kid graduating or not. i hear ya when you say the "whole" district is corrupt and bad, but personal experience.... it is your nephew

[uponit7771]

145. Again, we've confirmed that they told him this and I don't think they were "lying" to him

... per se just not being careful with what they say to a teenager that is already struggling with being motivated to go to school.

[theHandpuppet]

+2

:thumbsup:

[Uzybone]

11. Its Obama's fault

all teachers are excellent

[seabeyond]

14. right... casue the kid that gets for D's certainly isnt the one that should own it. nt

[Cerridwen]

17. Thanks for the example of nuance displayed on DU. n/t

[donco6]

13. Some schools don't award Ds at all.

Depends on the school.

[seabeyond]

16. sons high school has no d's. 69 or below an F. elementary and middle school has D's at 70-74. nt

[uponit7771]

67. Yeap, this one too...figure you made a D you made an F just as easy

[Cerridwen]

15. First question - why is your nephew doing only D quality work?

Second question - How long has he been doing D work and why is it just now of concern? Graduation? Why not long before graduation was looming?

Third question - What do your nephew's parents have to say about/do with this?

Fourth question - What will you (since you appear concerned) and your nephew's parents do to help your nephew improve his D work?

Fifth question - How will all the above mentioned work together with nephew's teachers to improve his work?

The answer to your question is in the replies above; D is in fact passing. If it's not good enough in your eyes, please see questions one through five above.

[uponit7771]

26. Answer to your first question is: he's a rational being...why should he put more work into it than..

...is needed?!



"Second question - How long has he been doing D work and why is it just now of concern? Graduation? Why not long before graduation was looming?"

For 3 months, he last reports were pretty good...I just learned he was convinced of this

"Third question - What do your nephew's parents have to say about/do with this?"

Long story, his parents aren't available and he doesn't have a lot of oversight where he's at

"Fourth question - What will you (since you appear concerned) and your nephew's parents do to help your nephew improve his D work?"

Again, possibly place him in a private school...he cares somewhat about school. His sister went through a charter program and started to care more after she saw what was available.

Fifth question - How will all the above mentioned work together with nephew's teachers to improve his work?

The answer to your question is in the replies above; D is in fact passing. If it's not good enough in your eyes, please see questions one through five above.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. You're contradicting yourself.

If D is doing only the work that's needed, then it would be a passing grade.

But in your OP, you say it's not.

:shrug:

[uponit7771]

47. Please read my OP, I'm not talking about passing a class but the grade level.

[Ms. Toad]

159. In every public high school I am familiar with a D is passing

and that applies whether you are talking about an individual class, or the overall average. (Private schools may have different standards - I have no familiarity with them.) Since NCLB came along, even students with passing grades (whether that is straight Ds or straight As or somewhere in between) students can still be kept from graduating if they can't pass a graduation test of some sort. BUT - passing is passing as far as moving from grade to grade is concerned. It would be wrong to tell your nephew that he will fail when that is not true (and if it was true, he would not have been told that it was by four teachers).

What varies from school to school is what scale/algorithm is used to convert from percentage grade to letter grade. The two most common are a 10 point scale and a 7 point scale (the number of percentage points in a letter grade). On a 10 point scale, 60% is the lowest passing grade; on a 7 point scale 72% is the lowest passing grade. Some schools also use a standardized curve, so your percentage grade doesn't have any fixed relationship to whether you are passing or not. What matters is whether you fall in the lowest fixed size clump of students.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

43. Why should he put more work in?

So he can get into college and not work at McDonald's for the rest of his life.

[Cerridwen]

58. If that's good enough for his rational self, then I see no problem.

He passes. He graduates. He goes on to "put no more work into it than is necessary."

Or, you put him in a private school and see if he does more if more's expected (presuming that actually happens) or he continues to do the least he can to achieve a passing grade.

Or maybe he stays where he's at and learns to expect more from himself if it's not expected of him otherwise.

At some point in time, someone might want to talk with him about doing or not doing any more than what's expected.

Maybe he's not the "book learning" type and would be happier graduating from a trade school. A good friend of mine did this and has had her own business since graduating in 1975 and has done well for herself and her family. Of course, she did a bit more than just getting by in order to do so.

Maybe he needs a role model or two or five.

[uponit7771]

60. Again, he does NOT pass to the next grade level with all D's

[Cerridwen]

75. I did not see your edit stating that was the case.

Since that is the case, your "rational" nephew is not doing "what is needed." Hand him the paperwork which shows what's required for graduation. Perhaps he can be encouraged to put some effort into something other than asking his teachers what is the least he can do to get by.

[uponit7771]

83. He was told that he COULD pass the 10th grade with D's, that is false

[Cerridwen]

87. Then show him the requirements that state otherwise. n/t

[uponit7771]

93. We have, IE the reason I want to go to the school and find out why a teacher would tell himsomething

...like that

[Cerridwen]

107. Perhaps he asked the question in much the same as you did here.

Perhaps he asked about passing a class rather than passing to the next grade.

Perhaps the teacher(s) told him no such thing.

Too many unknowns here. If he's as clear in his communication with his teachers as you have been in this thread, specifically with me, it's no wonder there's confusion.

Now, I'll wish you a good day. Your moving goal posts and defense of "only what's needed" as "rational" while trying to place blame is tiring.

[uponit7771]

112. No, we asked the teachers ourselves...that's why I type that it's confirmed.

[proteus_lives]

79. "he's a rational being...why should he put more work into it than is needed?!"

That's not rational, that's lazy.

Your nephew needs to develop a work ethic or he's going nowhere in life.

[seabeyond]

91. and this adult wonders why the kid does so poorly. i am amazed. this is EXACTLY what is wrong with

schools

parents like this that make excuses and justifies poor participation and blame the school

this post floors me

i would be embarrassed to even think this let alone post it

[proteus_lives]

161. Motto all around.

The school didn't fail this kid, his family did. From the OP's posts, this kid has been taught no work ethic. Unless he take charge of his life, it's going to bite him hard after high school.

[uponit7771]

116. or maybe he should be told the correct criteria for passing?

[seabeyond]

86. rational being...why should he put more work ... THIS is the PROBLEM.

your acceptance of inadequate.

[uponit7771]

117. Ummm, I'm speaking from a 10th graders perspective not mine. I wouldn't post somthing like this if I

...thought that was adequate

[seabeyond]

121. lol lol. i get you now. i get your situation now. it is not the school.

they pound their head on the wall, just like you do, with kids like this. kids that can be excellent, but because of things in life, these kids chose not to.

and yes

this is your kid speaking..... why even more, not the teachers.

[MineralMan]

129. The problem is not yours. It is that kid's parents' problem.

I'm not sure what you think you're going to do to convince this kid that he needs to work harder. If the parents haven't done it, I doubt you have a chance.

[MineralMan]

127. If that's the case, then the problem lies somewhere other than

his school. Perhaps he needs better parenting. That's where the drive comes from. The school can only work with what parents sends them.

[HereSince1628]

18. You could also tell him that he could pass 10th grade with A's

Milwaukee County has 4 of the worst 20 HS's in the country.
The biggest problem here seems to be that students acquire a sense of pointless-ness to school.

Somehow creating an aspiration seems needed here. Maybe you could involve him in things you do that lean on having an education, like maybe you could talk politics with informed cynicism. Kids love cynicism it might light a flame in current events which is a cornucopia of teaching/learning opportunities.

[Zoigal]

20. Perhaps a "D" is the best your nephew can make...if not, he needs to be

motivated to do better. A "D" is a passing abeit definitely on the lower end of the scale....z

[peace13]

22. Does your nephew care if you call the school?

When my son was in High School he hated it if I talked to a teacher or admin. He said that it always make it harder on him.

[guitar man]

23. Shame on those teachers, they should have told him

That with grades like that, he could become POTUS. W* did!

:D

[MrCoffee]

24. Call and apologize for your nephew's lackluster performance in their classrooms

[RedEarth]

33. lol.....wonderful!

[uponit7771]

54. Yeap, but only after I ask them WHY they would tell him that and it not being true

[Tailormyst]

98. Unless you are his guardian they can't speak to you about his grades

[uponit7771]

132. I'm listed as an overseer

[eShirl]

25. tell him you'll give him $100 for every B, $300 for every A

It would be a lot cheaper than private school.

[uponit7771]

28. He's not movtivated by money

[eShirl]

34. is he depressed, learning disabled, being bullied, ????

have you asked him what's going on?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Is he stupid and lazy?

[uponit7771]

49. Neither, he's motivated by attention. P.S. your condescending posting aren't needed

[Fumesucker]

48. In that case there's little you can do..

Unless you are motivated either by a love of learning or by money there is no reason to get any kind of grades at all.

[uponit7771]

52. It's attention and love, I have 2 kids of my own and I'm seriously thinking of bringing him here

[Fumesucker]

61. Attention and love won't instill a love of learning..

And moving kids around is often bad for them, particularly if they are shy and don't make friends easily, he could end up really resenting it if you take him away from what friends he has and putting him in a place where he has none..

By tenth grade having friends his own age is quite possibly more important to him than home life.

It's certainly a generous and loving thing to do, I'm just saying that he might not see it that way, it depends a great deal on the individual.

[uponit7771]

63. Understood, right now I'd just like to motivate him and money doesn't do it. When someone is paying

...attention to his life he usually is on the ball.

I just found out my brother talked to him recently also about the grades and we're both going to find out why the teachers would tell him something that's not true about passing the 10th grade in that district

[Xithras]

56. I give my kids an "ask for anything" reward for a straight A report card.

My son got a new bike last semester that way, and my daughter is using hers to go to a highschool math camp thing at Stanford next summer.

I don't let them ask for cash though. Cash is too ephemeral and kids are fully aware that they'll end up blowing it on silly things like movies and fast food. Instead, I like to focus them on a goal. What thing or activity do they want to earn? What places do they want to see? I even let them override me...my son wanted to take a motocross dirtbike class last summer that his mom and I had nixed out of safety concerns. When he brought home a straight-A report card and asked for the class, we relented and let him take it (he had a blast and didn't get hurt).

The trick is to find something that the kid really wants and hold THAT out as a reward. If you can't figure out what they want, the simple knowledge that they can ask for anything and get it is often motivation enough. You may want to set some spending caps though, to keep the kid from asking for a new car or something :) Our cap is at $500, but they usually come in far under that.

[uponit7771]

59. THX!!! I'll talk to his oversears and let them know I'll pay...this sounds better than money right n

[renate]

124. thank you!

This is a great idea!

We started paying for grades many years ago (in grade school, it was for the teachers' assessment of effort, not for the grades themselves) but I think the idea of a really big reward for across-the-board excellence might be better. Our son is exactly the type to set his sights on, say, a video game, and earn the money for that, but if he doesn't have any other needs at the moment he wouldn't do any more work than necessary.

Thanks! Great idea! :thumbsup:

[Xithras]

155. I don't pay my kids for single A's though.

We do a "Pick Dinner" thing instead. They get to pick dinner one night for each A they get. We started out with the whole "$20 for each A" idea when my oldest daughter was in third grade, but ended it a few years later when my older son came home with a report card full of C's and D's, and one solitary A for PE. His lack of effort was obvious, but he still wanted his $20. We gave it to him (we had an agreement, and I don't lie to my kids), but that was the last time we paid for an individual grade.

My kids actually love the Pick Dinner option anyway (and yes, they do get it even if they score straight A's and get the Ask For Anything). A couple of weeks ago my wife started making a dinner my son hated. Homemade salisbury steak, potatoes, and lima beans (yes, it doesn't sound good to me either, but she loves lima beans). My son immediately came running into the kitchen with his report card, pointed out that he still had two unused Pick Dinner's left, and asked for pizza instead. The pizza was pretty good that night! Unfortunately for him, my wife just made the lima beans a few nights later, so it really just bought him a little time :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. And how do you know it's not technically true?

[uponit7771]

30. I read the requirments for passing to the 11th grade and even if it was why would they tell a 10th..

...grader that?

What do they expect one to do after hearing such info?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. But in post #26, you say it is passing.

Did you yourself finish high school? Particularly english classes?

[uponit7771]

44. No I don't that was a part of the posters statement not my answer, in this district you can NOT pass

...with all D's

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. "D is in fact passing."

Make up your mind.

[uponit7771]

50. passing a class but not the grade level, again...please read my OP title

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. So what's the requirement to pass to the next grade level...

besides passing all 10th grade classes?

[uponit7771]

53. passing with above a 1.9, all D's wont do that

[sinkingfeeling]

65. Excuse me, but isn't a GPA across all years? Perhaps if one had higher grades as a freshman, one

could still have a 1.9 GPA and receive all D's (1.0s).

[uponit7771]

69. "Excuse me, but isn't a GPA across all years?" - not in relation to passing to the next level of...

...grade, when it's relating to overall GPA you take the whole 4 years.

[uponit7771]

57. Again, that was not my statement that was part of the posters I was answering

[Xithras]

37. I tell my kids that a D is the worst grade they can get.

If you truly don't understand the material, you're going to get an F. That's ok. We can deal with that, and there are tutors and afterschool programs to help you learn it. Not knowing the material isn't always the kids fault, and sometimes it simply means that they need a different teaching method or more one on one work.

If you get a D, it means that you DID get the material, but didn't put enough effort into it to actually develop your understanding to the level needed for a decent grade. It's a "I did just enough to skate by" grade, and "just enough" never is in my book. Any kid who can earn a D, can earn a C by working a bit harder.

My kids have two teachers as parents. When it comes to homework and grades, they don't get much of a free ride.

[Confusious]

163. Have you ever taken calculus?

I can get A's and B's in pretty much everything, but I put in hours of time and came out with a D.

The second time around was a C.

I'm expecting a B the third time around.

Lets hear it for stubbornness! RAH RAH!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

55. Biology Chair always answers our questions with "D for Diploma"

I think he does it to quiet the nerves of students freaking out over C's. If it's true, it's true. What should the teachers do? Lie?

On Edit: I see that the teachers were mistaken? Perhaps they meant that he could pass if he got a D in *their* class, not all classes.

[zbdent]

64. Tell your nephew to register as a Republican ... he could become President ...

well, that is, if your nephew had a Republican president in his family beforehand ...

[uponit7771]

71. You know the sad thing is he kept up with politics to a certain degree and saw Bush as stupid as he

...was and I know that didn't help

[backscatter712]

68. What do you call a med student with a D average?

Doctor...

[Ozymanithrax]

70. In 1967, I was told by an English teacher that I would drop out and end up in the gutter...

She told me, "You are just too stupid to succede."

I graduated in 1970 with the rest of my class. I have an English Literature degree.

For the right person, proving some asshole wrong is a great motivator. But for most, it sucks.

[mzteris]

72. Learning Differences:

About The Anti-Defamation League
EQUAL TREATMENT EQUAL ACCESS

The lessons included in this curriculum unit seek to challenge myths and stereotypes about people with disabilities and to promote awareness of various forms of disability. The first three lessons are designed to explore a broad range of physical disabilities with elementary students.

The fourth lesson introduces middle school students to the science behind learning disabilities, and seeks to remove the stigma around this invisible disability by engaging students in an exploration of multiple intelligence and the broad range of human learning styles.

In the fifth and final lesson, high school students explore the historical legacy of bias and discrimination toward people with disabilities, and learn about the self-advocacy and self-determination of disability rights activists. In addition to the lesson plans, various resources on disability are included for educators and students, such as communication guidelines on disability, a school assessment of environmental access to people with disabilities, and a terminology reference sheet on disability.

By raising awareness about different types of disability and the struggle for equal treatment and equal access, these educational activities challenge the “idealized notion of ‘normality’ against which disabled people are constantly compared,” and force a re-evaluation of ableist beliefs and policy.


Lesson 4: Understanding Learning Differences

Rationale : The purpose of this lesson is to increase understanding about learning differences and empathy for people who have them. Experts estimate that 6 to 10 percent of the school-aged population and nearly 40 percent of the children enrolled in the nation’s special education classes have a learning disability; yet most students don’t understand what learning disabilities are and those who learn differently frequently bear the stigma of being thought of as “slow,” lazy, or “weird.”

. . . Explain to students that researchers believe that dyslexia and other learning disabilities occur because of the way the brain is formed and the way it processes the information it receives. Emphasize that people with learning disabilities are not less intelligent than others, but that their brains may actually be “wired” differently. Explain that for this reason, many people prefer the term learning difference (able to learn in different ways) over learning disability (not able to learn). Though both terms are acceptable, encourage students to try and use the term learning difference in the future. . . Tell students that, unlike physical disabilities, learning differences are usually invisible to us and it may therefore be harder to understand and empathize with the struggles of students like Matt .

http://www.adl.org/education/curriculum_connections/fall_2005/fall_lesson_4_2005.asp?cc_section=lesson_4


Sounds like a good lesson plan for students. And evidently a whole damn lot of adults.

[uponit7771]

76. His 9th grade GPA avg was 2.8, I'm starting to think this is his way of getting a lot of attention..

...from the whole family because we go nuts when his grades are down.....

Hmmmm....

[eShirl]

84. then maybe family counseling might help

[uponit7771]

90. Or maybe the teachers could tell him true information and learn what NOT to say to teenagers

[eShirl]

118. That would still not solve his problems, now would it?

[uponit7771]

136. In this case yes, before being told that he was just fine and he was doing good for more the

...whole school year (nothing like last year)...I'm of the understanding now that this is more than what meets the eye and he's prolly screaming for attention

[mzteris]

95. that can never hurt! n/t

[mzteris]

94. uh - no -

i seriously doubt that. Unless - maybe - he never gets any positive attention??

Kids want to do well until it's drummed out of them or they feel it's too hopeless to continue.

9th grade is a whole different place from elementary or middle schools. Is it organization?

What, exactly, seems to be the difficulties he's experiencing in the classroom?

[seabeyond]

113. this is the point. this is the issue. it isnt the school. i have two nephews failing too. cause

they dont care. they like having a parent that allows them to make excuses, and jsutify their behavior, always on their side and not follow the rules, or put effort and work hard.

your nephew is chosing a path that wont serve him

you all are going to struggle and fight to get him to see things differently... and he ahs already decided his course

sorry you are in this place. you love him. you want the best for him. but he isnt going to do it. he is making that clear to you all

teachers, you .... cant make him

these are his choices

and i know you now want to believe teacher lied, but at a guess, .... teacher told him the truth, whereever that truth is, then you got your nephews story

[uponit7771]

123. Yeah,...yeah, it's the school...the school district is corrupt and has been in the local media a LON

...long time with negative news.

It has a a disapproval rating of around 85% and the people in the are have even elected new governorship before the state took it over then handed it back.

In this case my nephew was told false information that demotivated him even more...

[seabeyond]

130. i have never allowed my kids future to be dependent on anyone but them. it is a good lesson to

teach your kids.... nephew. my kids dont get to blame bad teachers or anything else. a grade, their future is always their responsibility.

[uponit7771]

134. He's ultimatly responsible for making A's and no one is letting him off the hook, being told false..

...demotivating information for a kid that is on the brink already isn't helpful and I'm going to find out what that was done

[proteus_lives]

74. You should talk to his parents.

They need to drop the hammer on the little slacker.

[uponit7771]

78. They're not available...

[proteus_lives]

88. Then you need to put foot to ass on him.

Or he's going nowhere fast.

[uponit7771]

102. I understand his situation is touchy and multiple people telling him needless false information...

...doesn't help either.

[LostInAnomie]

77. Tell your nephew to get his ass in gear.

It's not the teachers' fault he's not applying himself. They aren't miracle workers. If his family can't motivate him, what are the chances someone that sees him one hour a day and has their attention divided between 25-30 students can do it for you?

[uponit7771]

81. The information they told him was false, that IS their fault also.....

...why would anyone in their right mind tell a rational teenager something like that?!

[LostInAnomie]

120. It's not false though. They gave him an honest answer.

If he asked the teachers individually, and they told him he could pass their class with a D they were giving an honest answer. You can pass a class with a D. There's just no way around that. They probably don't know what his grades are in other classes so they can't speak for his cumulative GPA.

If he asked if he could pass this grading period with four D's they were probably telling the truth also. I doubt he's only taking four classes. If he was doing well in his other classes he could still pass with higher than a 2.0.

If the 2.0 GPA to be promoted is just for his grade it would be very possible to be promoted with only four D's. Especially, if his grades have just recently started to suffer.

If the 2.0 GPA is based on his total high school career, four D's will probably move his cumulative GPA very little.

Any way you slice it, the teachers were being honest. You just don't like the answer they gave.

[uponit7771]

125. My OP title relates to passing the 10th grade not a class, what they told him was false about passin

...to the 10th grade with D's (below 1.9 GPA) and again, why would they tell a 10th grader something like that?

Not everyone is motivated by learning etc, that kind of information...even if true...could demotivate a person on the brink and that's exactly what happened with him.

He argued us down about it before we showed him the correct information...

[LostInAnomie]

135. You'd tell him something like that if you were honest.

There are numerous scenarios where you could pass with a higher than 1.9 GPA if you receive D's. Based on how they are scoring the cumulative GPA, how many D's he receives, previous grades received, etc., it is very possible to get a 2.0 for your final GPA. Kids are smart enough to do the math. If a teacher lies to them it will totally delegitimize anything they say when asked for honest answers in the future.

[uponit7771]

140. It clearly states they aren't going to pass to the 11th grade with a

...the same rules apply in the state I'm living in right now (which is different from his) there are no D's it's a-c and f that's it

[LostInAnomie]

146. That obviously can't be true.

If he's asking about D's that obviously has to be a grade you can receive. In terms of passing based on GPA you might be correct that anything less than a "C" is considered a failure. That doesn't mean that if you receive any grades lower than a "C" you will fail though. As long as your cumulative GPA is high enough to take the blow you can still pass.

[uponit7771]

148. In this school districa and in my cousins kids school district in another state their GPA has to be

...> than a D to pass to the next grade. We've confirmed this in BOTH situations and what they told him was false.

I'm also learning the rules for that district were changed here lately so.....we'll see

[mzteris]

89. LAZY? Just "work harder"?

Lazy Kid or Executive Dysfunction?
By: Tracy Landon and Linda Oggel

Do you have a student who seems incredibly lazy? Intentionally forgetful? Absolutely unmotivated? Deliberately late? Do you feel like a broken record? Constantly asking where his homework is? Constantly asking him to clean out his desk? Constantly asking her to pick up stuff around her desk? Do you have a student who is chronically distracted? Are you repeating directions to get the student back on task when he gets distracted? Do you have a student who knows the information but can’t seem to communicate it to you in a logical sequence? Do you ask a question and get an answer that’s related but not quite connected to the question? If so, it might be that the student is not using these behaviors intentionally.

One of the least studied and most frequently overlooked contributors to academic and behavioral problems is a problem in the frontal lobes of the brain known as executive dysfunction (Parker, 2001). Students with executive dysfunction have problems of a neurobiological nature that particularly affect “planning, flexibility, organization, and self-monitoring (Ozonoff, 1998, p.282). These students may have “difficulty picking a topic, planning the project, sequencing the materials for a paper, breaking the project down into manageable units with intermediate deadlines, getting started, and completing the activity. And because these students frequently underestimate how long something will take, they’ll generally leave the project until the night before it is due” (Packer, 2001, p. 2). Just imagine how difficult it would be if you had trouble organizing your time, materials, belongings, thoughts or any combination of these!
-more-
http://www.ldonline.org/article/Lazy_Kid_or_Executive_Dysfunction%3F

**************

'Children perceived as lazy at school may actually have a learning disability or anxiety disorder, an educational psychologist has said.

Linda Gilmore, of the Queensland University of Technology (QUT), and colleagues have studied 50 children aged seven to nine with poor motivation at school.
She found most had previously unrecognised learning disabilities, anxiety, attention disorders or, in a few cases, were assessed as being gifted.
"We can offer an explanation, apart from just laziness, in about 90 per cent of cases," Dr Gilmore said in an interview.

"I want to raise people's awareness. Don't just write off a child as being lazy. Don't blame a personality defect like laziness.

"Look beyond that for the underlying reason for that child's low motivation," she said.

Presenting the findings of the study to the Australian Psychological Society's annual conference in Melbourne, Dr Gilmore said undiagnosed learning problems could have a big impact on a person's future. http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Lazy-kids-may-have-learning-disability/2005/09/28/1127804518313.html

******

Disability vs. Difference
Thousands of children display some of learning disability, and the emotional impact can be profound.

. . . Bob had undergone several courses of psychotherapy during his childhood and adolescence to help him deal with his "laziness" and "resistance to learning," to no avail. Bob's therapists understood that he had dyslexia, but thought it was emotionally based and not a neurological disorder that affects the ability to process, receive, or communicate information. The condition is common and often runs in families. Ten percent of all schoolchildren demonstrate some form of learning disability, usually in language or math.

. . . Emotional Consequences
Thousands of children display some of learning disability, and the emotional impact can be profound. The students experience a sense of futility and frustration as they struggle with reading, spelling, or math. One boy described his embarrassment at school when a classmate asked him the time. He couldn't "read" the wall clock. Another student was sure she was stupid and tried to hide her failings from her family and friends.

Some mainstreamed youngsters have the advantage of parents who engage tutors or learning specialists. Others spend their entire academic life in special education classrooms. Anxiety, depression, school avoidance and attention deficit disorder may coexist with the academic problems as a byproduct of the failure to learn. Feelings of worthlessness and low self-esteem are common.

It is important to recognize a learning disorder early in life. On the other hand, I have seen six year olds who were outgoing, happy and exuberant until first grade, when they became sullen, despondent and even depressed. If there had not been a major traumatic event in their lives, such as illness, death of a family member or divorce, I always recommend a psychological evaluation with a learning specialist. Bright children know when they cannot perform the ordinary tasks required by others. They know that something is wrong.

There are many recognized forms of learning disabilities. Some children do very well in the early years but by fifth grade their grades begin to drop.

Do not believe the words "Jimmy can do better but is lazy and not really trying." Explore the reasons underlying his symptoms and get him back on the path of healthy development. The neurological condition can be helped. That is why I think the term "learning disability" should be replaced by the more accurate term "learning difference."
http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=1892

******

The Many Different Differences in Learning
First, give your child the benefit of the doubt. All children would like to be successful in school. Therefore, if your child is doing poorly, start by assuming that the problem is not just laziness, that there is something in the child's basic "wiring" that is standing in the way of success. . .

What can schools do to be better able to help these children in need?

Most importantly, we need to help teachers become experts on the development of school-aged children and the many differences in learning that exist within a classroom. They need to know how to observe, describe, and manage children with differences in learning.

Communities must be committed to the ongoing professional development of teachers, clinicians, and school administrators so that we can have an educational system that is able to nurture individuals with differences in learning. http://www.kidsource.com/schwab/learning.differences.html

[renate]

114. thank you so much!

How nice of you to put all this material together!

:applause:

I kind of suspect that my son is just plain lazy--he can get his act together if he truly needs to (it's just that he doesn't often think it's a "truly needs to" situation) but I will read these articles with a lot of interest. Thank you! :hug:

[FirstLight]

92. My teen was told the same thing, and it is true here

He ca legally pass and GRADUATE with D's in math, english, civics... D is still considered passing. :wtf:

I don't know when they changed the rules, but D has NEVER been passing in my world....and certainly not in college. Isnt this setting them up for failure in future education? In LIFE?

sheesh...and not ONE of the teachers or counselors called me last year when he was in danger of flunking english. They don't have time anymore and I am supposed to be tracking his progress on the internet through the school...trouble is, the teachers don't update that info either!

I am the one who had to get us in to see his 'guidance counselor' (read:scheduling secretary) to discuss what we could do to insure he had all his credits for graduation!! They weren't even going to address the F in english last year ...until when? ...til they send me a note a week before graduation that he is 4 credits short?

still waiting to see if he can pull it off this semester. He is a super smart kid, but has NO motivation or desire to do anything bu th minimum needed to get by under the radar. ugh, teens!

[mzteris]

99. please see my earlier posts...

teens - especially "super smart" ones - who are doing poorly - there's a REASON! If it's not drugs or peers or some other outside influence to "dumb down" - then there's something else going on.

[uponit7771]

104. For my nephews school distric and the one my cousing kid a D GPA will not pass to the next grade

[Contrary1]

100. I can put him in touch with my own nephew...

Sounds just like him. Not motivated, doesn't care. Finally dropped out of high school when he was 16. Joined a carnival (no kidding), because he wanted to be on his own with no rules.

When he came home, my husband and I offered to pay his expenses if he went back to school. We would have bought him new clothes, paid to have his car fixed, gas money, etc. Our only condition was that he find a part time job, because we felt it was important for him to have some personal responsibility. Didn't matter to us how few hours he worked.

Nope, not interested. School wasn't necessary. He was going to get a "real job" and make big money. Fast forward 16 years... his "real" jobs have paid minimum wage or slightly above, and he has never worked full time anywhere.

He's 33 years old now, married and divorced, with one child he can't support. He just got his GED last month, and wonders why he can't find a job.

Feel free to send this on to your nephew. If he doesn't get his act together, it will serve as a glimpse into his future.

[seabeyond]

103. and blame everyone else for the position he is in.... nt

[Swamp Rat]

105. IF he wants to go to college, I have a suggestion:

Does he want to go to college? Does he really want to improve his intellect and learn new things? If yes, take him to a campus (or two or three) and go around to different departments. Let him take time off from high school to investigate colleges to see what life is like on the other side of HS. Since he is doing poorly grade-wise at this time, it won't matter if he misses school. I say this as someone who saw high school as a totally worthless endeavor, was already failing and had nothing to lose, and found that I could go around the gatekeepers in the system. ;)

I was kicked out of many high schools and had mostly D's and a few F's. However, I cut a deal with my last high school during my senior year (who had no idea what to do with me) to let me go to a university for half a day instead of high school classes. By the end of my senior year I was making straight A's (I was finally motivated to get the hell out of high school). Since my high school transcript sucked, I found a small community college that had low tuition and open enrollment; I completed my first two years there and did great (especially since I studied exactly what I wanted to study). Then I transferred to a 4-year institution where I completed my undergrad, and also received scholarships to study abroad in Europe, Central America, and South America (where I learned to speak 3 different languages). I beat out kids with better grades for some prestigious scholarships because I did great in the interviews and essays, showing how far I had come and demonstrating how useless our grading system can be at times. I subsequently earned more scholarships to do three different graduate degrees, and am currently working on another PhD.

So, I went from being a high school failure to a college success, mainly by beating the grading system and working very hard on my own (my GPA is very good now). I love school now, and look forward to doing a post-doc abroad, and perhaps another PhD (at a foreign institution) or JD. :D

If I had figured this out when I was a sophomore, I would have taken the GED, then applied at a community college ASAP.

edit: Hello, OP? :shrug:

[seabeyond]

106. he is getting 4 D's. he doesnt give a shit. thinks as long as will get him thru, good enough. nt

[Swamp Rat]

109. I felt the same way when I was his age.

However, I also wanted go to college sometime in the future, and I was determined to become smarter than the average bear. :)

[seabeyond]

126. good for you. school is easy for both kids. one has challenging time in math. neither "like"

school. and they do tend to only what has to be done. but geeez, they get their ass chewed out with anything less than an A in all subjects but math, lol. their "getting by" is pretty limited.

[Swamp Rat]

133. Sorry, but I do not understand your post.

What 'both' kids? Are you talking about your own children?

My parents knew better than to chew me out for grades. For me, it had zero value as a motivator - I am not knocking your or anyone else's system. I just know what worked for me.

I am only trying to give the OP advice as to how to deal with someone like me. I hope she bothers to read what I wrote, as I spent valuable time to respond to her plea.

[seabeyond]

138. "I spent valuable time to respond to her plea." yes you did. i took note of that.

since i am not in same situation as your experience, i really didnt bother to read. but, since it may help my nephews, i am going to go back to your post to hear what you said. maybe it may help nephew. huge iq. wants school. and doesnt have motivation nor desire to follow rules to succeed

thanks

[okieinpain]

108. why you mad at the teachers. what about his parents. n/t.

[uponit7771]

110. Because the teachers told him false information after we fought tooth and nail to motivate him to a

...2.8 GPA last year.

[YvonneCa]

153. He's playing you. Be the adult here. JMHO.. n/t

[uponit7771]

157. Again, we asked them...they confirmed that they told him this and while it's not an excuse it's wron

...information that, if there wasn't an adult with a foot up a childs butt, could demotivate many teenagers.

I truly believe it was a simple mistake but I'm going to see it through and get some grounds set with him

[YvonneCa]

158. Good luck. n/t

[snooper2]

115. "Any suggestions on the conversation would be welcomed...."

don't speak in run-on sentences :)

"I'm going to call and talk to every one of them and ask them why they would tell a 10th grader something like that when for it's not true and that type of information can demotivated many 16yr old boys who aren't being motivated anywhere else."

[uponit7771]

119. lol...

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

143. You call that a run-on sentence?

You must not have listened to our president at the "Health Care Reform Summit" the other day. That's a guy who really knows how to make a sentence run on, and on, and on.

And he probably got good grades.

[pitohui]

128. i'm curious as to why you are so involved in a nephew's schooling

i've read this thread w. some curiosity but i don't think anyone has addressed the real issue here -- why are you, as an aunt or an uncle, putting this much time into a nephew's education.

it seems like the nephew is winning a drama/attention reward from the whole family by kicking back and being lazy and also potentially hitting up aunt/uncle for some outside money -- you're talking about PAYING this kid for grades or sending him to private school out of YOUR money?

that's way out of line

the relationship of aunts/uncles to nephews/nieces should be more casual and fun, it should not be about figuring out ways to hit them up for extra side $$$

if the kid needs private school, HIS parents should pay for it, if he must be "bribed" to get good grades, HIS parents should pay for it

you're leaving yourself open to being scammed/ripped off with NO upside for you

no nephew ever paid for your nursing care in your old age or sent you on a cruise around the world in your old age either, this is simply a one way street

EVERY family relationship SHOULDN'T be about "how much money can i, as a bratty kid, screw out of the lonely older person?" that's just sooooo negative

if you're concerned abt the kid's education, find other ways to open his mind that DON'T involve money or just butt the heck out is my opinion

if you have to "buy" your relationship w. your nephew it isn't worth much anyway, in my humble opinion

[uponit7771]

131. His parents aren't available...also

"it seems like the nephew is winning a drama/attention reward from the whole family by kicking back" -

This is my first thought after reading all the posts of this thread here, he's motivated by attention to his schooling and life but it has to be constant...I'm glad I started this OP


I'm still pissed they would tell him false information that even if it wasn't false could demotivate a lot of teenagers. I'm of the thinking that they don't know that he can't pass to the 11th grade with a D gpa either and told him what they knew.

[mzteris]

141. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

don't put that label on him.

There's more going on here.

If you want to PM me I'll send you my email. If you wouldn't mind telling exactly how his "failure" in the classroom is manifesting itself. A little about his school history BEFORE this year. Maybe a bit more about the obviously screwed up family dynamics...

I'm sorry, but people really don't understand that children WANT to do well. They WANT to be smart and succeed, but when "whatever" is preventing them from DOING THAT - then OF COURSE they're gonna get an attitude and PRETEND THEY DON"T CARE!

[uponit7771]

144. "...If you wouldn't mind telling exactly how his "failure" in the classroom is manifesting itself.."

....he says he was told he could make D's and pass to the 11th grade, we confirmed that this information was told him and that it was false.

His parents are "troubled" to say the least and he's estranged from them right now, his school history is one of having to be motivated to go to school and get good grades and last year money did it but not this year.

I understand he wants to do well and from us (his uncles) talking to him it sounds like he will if we stay on his butt and looking at the home situation where ALL of the adults are now having to work more hours it's starting to make sense why they didn't stay foot in butt with him.

[mzteris]

149. I mean specifically -

What's going on that he's "MAKING D's"?

How does he learn? What seems to be the "difficulty" in the classroom?

Does he listen? Fidget? Goof off? Does his homework and can't find it? Make A's on tests and F's on homework? Does he do half his homework and forget to do the rest? Does he do "really well" in some subject and poorly in others?

Does he sometimes do "really well" on a project in a subject he usually does poorly in? Is he good at math and bad at reading or vice versa? Does he seem to be good at math (in his head) but does poorly on paper?

How's his vocabulary? Is it better than his writing? Does he write legibly? What are things he's "really good at" without even trying?

How was he as a child? Was he ontarget developmentally - ahead or behind in some ways? How was he in the early grades? What's his temperament?

Does he have trouble processing information he reads or information he hears? Is he easily distracted? Is he athletic in any sense? How's his spatial ability?

Is he disorganized? Is he poor at "estimating" time or space? Does he have to constantly be moving? Does he often "mishear" or "misunderstand" what people are saying? Given a choice would he A) write a report; B) give a speech; C) do a piece of artwork/poster; D) do a video; E - some other format?


That's what I mean by "exactly" . . .

[uponit7771]

151. What's going on that he's "MAKING D's"? - Hmmm, will ask more but my neice was the same way BEFORE..

...going to another school district with a more challenging curriculum and then getting straight A's.

His GPA was 2.8 in the 9th grade and he made great grades on his second report,...after we hounded him so his attitude etc about learning changed 180 degrees because we'd hound him if he wasn't doing good then reward him with everything if he was.

He now gets up at 5 to go to school and is usually early so that's why, on the face of it, such demotivating false information like "you don't have to try to pass" sounds like it could be a gating factor but I think it's mostly because all of the adults in the house are working more hours and no one is hounding him any longer because of the more responsible behavior changes.

How's his vocabulary? - diverse

Is it better than his writing? - way better, he's not convinced that he's smart though until I bring up his art...

Does he write legibly? No, chicken scratch-ish but not on the level of engineer (I am one) or doctor.

What are things he's "really good at" without even trying? - art, just found out he's making an A in this class and has never gone below A-


Again, fairly bright person but someone has convinced him that he's not...

[mzteris]

162. someone has convinced him he's not

well - that seems to be a huge problem right there.

I would encourage you to read through some of the links I sent you. See if you recognize any of the issues/traits.

Being extremely bored (bright/gifted underchallenged) will cause a child to do poorly. Having learning differences will do so as well. Seeing as how many gifted children ALSO have learning differences (masked by intelligence) - then I would implore you to do more research on this.

WHY is he making D'S? What about his work is "D" worthy? (See my list of questions again.) I'm not really sure what I'm miscommunicating here. . . you need specifics. Pinpoint what - exactly - is the problem he's having that he's not achieving more.

[YvonneCa]

154. It's not about what grade he needs to 'pass'...

...it's about what grade should he earn that shows he has actually learned something in HS. A D says he didn't learn much, but an A...

[Cronus Protagonist]

142. Is the OP in Esperanto?

I've never seen "when for" used together in a sentence like that in the English language... neither have I seen the construct "can demotivated".

In any case, he would no doubt benefit from private school, so I say go for it.

[tammywammy]

147. Did you not read the rules for his classes at the beginning of the year?

How about the districts conduct handbook? Grades and what's passing are listed in both of those. I grew up in Texas schools below 70 wasn't a passing grade then either.

And also, have you entertained the possibility that your newphews aren't telling the whole truth?

[uponit7771]

150. Again, we've confirmed that they told him this and I don't think they were "lying" to him

...per se just may not know the rule themselves.

I also live in Texas so thank you for confirming this because hardly anyone in this thread believes the Below 70 standard set by some districts when it comes to passing class and the next grade level.

I don't have kids my nephews age and I'm thinking the adults that are in the house are working a lot of overtime....again.......and not hounding him like he wants and this is one of the reasons he gets attention.

[On the Road]

152. If Four Different Teachers Told Him the Same Thing,

it seems unlikely that they were four spontaneous conversations, and more likely that it they were answers to a specific question posed to each teacher. The teachers may have been uninformed about graduation requirements and passing on misinformation, or it could be that the teachers were speaking only about passing the individual course -- in this either case the question or the answer was not understood, or the student is not accurately depicting the conversation.

Not knowing any of the parties, there's no way to tell the teachers' motivations. However, it is possible to think of scenarios where it is a reasonable response. If a child is considering dropping out school, or if a child feel in danger of failing and never completing high school, a teacher might encourage them to finish school by emphasizing how low the minimum requirements are. In this case, passing with a D would be an alternative to failing or dropping out.

My girlfriend's son had difficulty in college and graduated with a 2.5 GPA in Studio Art. He does not have a very marketable degree, and I have been encouraging him to find a way to attend grad school or even medical school (some Caribbean med schools have very low admissions standards). He is depressed about his poor GPA, but I have been encouraging him by saying that all you need to do is get to the next level. Once in med school, nobody cares what your college GPA is. And once you graduate and finish your classwork, it doesn't matter if you graduated last in your class -- you're still on your way to being an MD.

Not the right approach for everyone, but there are times when it's the right message.

[uponit7771]

156. Yeap, it's most likely they didn't know what the true requirments are and didn't know he was already

...unmotivated towards anything else but art.