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Really now, for the good of us all, we need to start again.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 09:47 PM
Original message
Really now, for the good of us all, we need to start again.
Health care reform has become a joke, worse than a joke. We now have a bill, the Senate version, which is going to hand a mandated monopoly over to the insurance industry, with price control loopholes big enough to drive a truck through. It will continue to drive insurance premiums higher, it will hit union members doubly hard, since the health care plans fairly negotiated by the unions will be taxed, while the rich, not so much. It will also put further constraints on a woman's right to choose.

The charade of passing this "progressive legislation" has become obscene to behold. Time and again they have capitulated to the minority, running for the hills when the 'Pugs said boo. The Dems, including the President, have inserted provision after Republican provision chasing mythical bipartisanship, trying to avoid a filibuster, trying to avoid a fight.

Fuck that.

I'm not one of those who have advocated for single payer over all, I am old and wise enough to realize that we're not going to achieve that in one fell swoop. However I do think that a strong public option, especially in the face of any sort of mandate, is a necessity. That should the compromise position. We should also put a stop to this constant drip we've seen in legislation after piece of legislation that has continued to limit choice. It's that simple, just take a stand. Oh, and as far as pissing all over your liberal base and union base. Not a good idea. Make the rich pay their fair share for once instead of balancing our country's economy on the back of the working person.

Take a bill like that and put it through Congress. After all, the public option was what the Dems supposedly wanted for everybody, that should pass through a Democratically controlled Congress and get signed by a Democratic president. And choice, and unions, well supporting both of those constituents has always been bedrock Democratic political philosophy, isn't it time that they started acting like it?

But I hear the wailing now, "We don't have enough to break the filibuster, we must put through the worst possible world of all "reform" bills by reconciliation so we can claim a win." No, you put through what you were elected to do, what your constituents want you to do, force the 'Pugs to filibuster, a real live, broadcast on Cspan filibuster and beat them about the head and shoulders with their obstructionism until they stop.

Everybody likes a winner, but better yet, everybody likes a fighter, win or lose. The Democratic party is no longer a fighter, at least not on any level above a few select states. What they have become is a tool of appeasement, afraid to fight for what is right, right for our country, what is right for the people of this country. We, as a people and a government, need to show conservatives in this country just what a minority they are, and a filibuster will do just that. It would mean that the party would have to find its spine, it would mean that we would have some tough sledding, it would mean that you and I would have to actually support the party both in word and deed, thus showing that there are more liberals, progressives, Democrats, left of center of all flavors than there are conservatives. But if we made that show, if we fought that fight, the Democrats would continue to win elections and this country as a whole would be better for it.

But were not going to do that, we're going to force through a POS "reform" that is going to do more harm than good for our country, and it's going to be done in such a manner that will be perceived by many as hypocritical at best. It will mean a loss for the Democrats this fall and 2012, and it will be a loss for all of us in general.

We need to start again, and this time actually fight for the right thing. Not the pie-in-the-sky thing, just the right thing.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. "just the right thing. "
Very good post.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Start over with something that excites people. Something real. Make em filibuster
Edited on Wed Mar-03-10 09:50 PM by Oregone
If they succeed, theyll look like assholes. If a Democratic majority doesn't entirely vote for it, throw the bastards out on a pathway to real reform.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Very well said.
knr.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. the senate bill is shamefully bad....
I've re-written this response several times. Words just fail me, I'm so angry and disappointed at how the opportunity to do some real good was squandered by a bunch of parasitic old men and women clinging to power and corporate greed. We put those people in charge. Epic FAIL.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yeah, I know what you mean
I never expected much, but we're coming down to what is really the worst possible option. Yet we're supposed to cheer this as some sort of victory. Nope, can't go there.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree if the Republicans say they want to start over then let's start over
But this time let's start over with single payer. It is time to see the Democrats grow a spine, if the Republicans say we need to start over then show them the bill that we intend on starting over with and watch the right-wing heads explode. Let's pass real health care reform and I can guarantee you the Republicans will never dare to ask us to start from scratch on anything ever again. We need to start from a position of strength and refuse to back down, I only wish our members of Congress had enough spine to put a single payer bill forward right now and tell the Republicans their wish has came true and we are starting over.
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Foo Fighter Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Exactly!
HCR should have been single payer from the beginning. The Dems didn't merely take if "off the table" but never even had it on the table to begin with. Yes, it's time to start over and the new bill should be for a single payer system. No compromises.

Unfortunately, the Dems don't really need to grow a spine to do this. What they need to do is throw off their corporate shackles and start representing the people and doing what we sent them to DC to do. The Dems have plenty of spine when it comes to fighting for whatever their corporate masters want. But when it comes to representing the interests of the remaining 99% of us, they collapse like amwet paper towel.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good post
too bad the unrec ijits have been here.
I did rec.
I only unrec puke nonsense or total bs.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. I still think it's a mistake to tackle this AGAIN (and fail again) without
FIRST addressing the economy, jobs, and the banks in a MEANINGFUL way.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I don't necessarily disagree with that,
God knows were all tired of this whole thing, Obama should have taken charge and have it wrapped up by last August as originally promised.

But we simply can't allow this god awful bill to pass. It will devastate the middle and working class in this country.

Hit the economy and jobs, and start start working on a real HCR bill, I could handle that. But just don't settle for this POS and call it a victory.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Medicare for ALL...
...would be an immediate GIANT stimulus.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. How so?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. The reason we are where we are is because the Democrats are either afraid of the repukes
or in collusion with them. What makes you thing starting over will get a different result. Starting over will give the republicans a victory and they will use it to hammer further legislation. And besides Obama doesnt want a PO. He has made that clear. Face it, HCR is dead. And nothing of substance will happen until until after we fix Congress. Kick the lobbyists out. Until then it is a joke.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. They all serve the corporations that line their pockets
Evan Bayh's wife, for example, sits on the board of several health insurance corporations.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well, it would be nice if the Democratic party returned to the party of my youth
Edited on Wed Mar-03-10 10:41 PM by MadHound
When LBJ said "fuck you" to the 'Pugs, forced them to filibuster Civil Rights Act and beat them about the head and shoulders with it on a daily basis. I would vote for that kind of Democratic leadership again.

The trouble is, as you say, they aren't that type of party anymore. They are simply one arm of the two party/same corporate master system of government we currently have operating things. One would think that the threat of losing their asses in the upcoming elections would move them, but yes, apparently that hope is dying as well.

If that's the case, then we've simply got to make both parties pay for this madness these upcoming elections.

Make the people's voice heard once again.
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Foo Fighter Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. They don't care if they lose in the election because they have cushy
lobbyist jobs waiting for them. They LOVE the power they have in Congress but they also LOVE the money a lobbyist job will bring.

Ousting them all regardless of party and replacing them with people from some non-corporate-sponsored party is the only way we will actually see "change." Before we can hope to get even a public option for HCR, we need to have public financing for campaigns.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Public financing for campaigns? We cant even have free elections. nt
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Foo Fighter Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yeah, I know.
Makes that whole concept of voting them out of office rather difficult.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Damn
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. In every other civilized country in The WORLD,
Health Care is a basic Human Right.

If THIS Bill passed, the only RIGHT it guarantees is the RIGHT of Health Insurance Corporations to make a profit on the backs of sick people!

In fact, it MANDATES Profits for the HI Industry.
Every American will be REQUIRED to donate every year
to a Corporation that manufactures NOTHING and produces NO (value added) Wealth.

THIS is Obama's/Democrat's "Uniquely American Solution".
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!
(I wonder if bush is still using that old banner?)

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. +1
but it feels like we're shouting into the wind these days.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The discussion has moved so far to the right
That anything to the left of Nixon is considered to be ridiculous. Seriously, this "reform" is something that Nixon contemplated back in the day, before he got caught up in Watergate. A mandated gift to the insurance industry.

To think that we're so far to the right in governing this country that Nixon looks like a leftist:banghead:
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Foo Fighter Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-03-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Oh c'mon bvar22, Haven't you heard? Corporations are people too!
The corporations enjoy the same rights that we as people do. They have the right to profit off our labor, much like we do. They also have the right to profit off of charging us huge health insurance premiums and then denying any and all medical claims, much like...oh wait...yeah, I guess we don't really profit from something like that, do we?

Mandates are nothing more then legislated extortion. Plain and simple.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. In other countries, though, it is NOT an UNLIMITED right.
They do not pay for EVERYTHING, indefinitely.

There are limits.

We are the only major industrialized nation that does not place a hard-figure budgetary cap on the amount the government will spend on health care each year.

We have to change our mentality before we get single payer. We cannot expect unlimited spending on unlimited procedures. We have to accept that the government will have to say "no" sometimes.

Americans don't like hearing "no."
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Americans don't like hearing 'no'
yeah, sure.....

NO.....we're not going to start THAT war (started with lying pretense)

NO.....we're not going to stop "health insurance" companies from drinking us dry

..........

Republican/Military-Industrial Complex elements have been running rough-shod over the American people (and their sensibilities) for DECADES!

The PEOPLE have been hearing a constant "NO" about the things that they care about/would make a difference to the current scene.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
27. great post! too late to recommend, alas
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