Stupak: 12 Dems ready to oppose health care bill

[still_one]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A congressman who has played a key role in the long-running health care debate says he and 11 other Democrats will vote against the overhaul unless a provision subsidizing abortion is removed.

Rep. Bart Stupak argued Thursday that the provision in the Senate-passed version has language that would permit the federal government to "directly subsidize abortions."

The Michigan Democrat said he supports health care change, but he said several Democrats who voted for it the House would oppose it next time around in the absence of change. Stupak said on ABC's "Good Morning America" that "we're not going to bypass some principles that we believe strongly about." The administration argues that Obama's bill would retain existing restrictions on federally-financed abortions.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stupak-12-Dems-ready-to-apf-4292805111.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

[ShortnFiery]

1. Good. Plus as a robust public option and I'm OK with the House voting AYE. Not before! eom

[bullimiami]

2. does anyone know if their congressional healthcare prohibits funding abortions.

[Nite Owl]

3. Ever notice how when

the conservative dems/repukes insist on something because it is a 'strongly held belief' they get bowed down to, everyone understands but when a liberal wants something they are just holdouts who want everything and can't settle for less? They will bend over backwards to please a right winger and a progressive gets mocked.

[still_one]

4. The Democrats will never be viable until they stand for fundamental issues that distinguish

themselves from the republicans

One of these issues used to be a woman's right to choose

[bluethruandthru]

20. You got that right!

....but we just want a pony, right?

[Ohio Joe]

5. Must... Control... Women...

Douchebags.

[customerserviceguy]

13. It's more complicated than that

and you know it.

[DaveinJapan]

31. Actually, no. You are wrong. It's not complicated at all.

"Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman’s right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay. We stand firmly against Republican efforts to undermine that right. At the same time, we strongly support family planning and adoption incentives. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare."
Source: The Democratic Platform for America, p.36 Jul 10, 2004

"Democrats stand behind the right of every woman to choose. We believe it is a constitutional liberty. This year’s Supreme Court ruling show us that eliminating a woman’s right to choose is only one justice away. Our goal is to make abortion more rare, not more dangerous. We support contraceptive research, family planning, comprehensive family life education, and policies that support healthy childbearing."
Source: Democratic National Platform Aug 15, 2000

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Democratic_Party_Abortion.htm

[RainDog]

39. thank you. Anti-choicers do not belong in the democratic party, if...

their stance includes the desire to overturn the law or to restrict women's rights by creating new laws or provisions that do the same.

Yes, there ARE litmus tests.

If you think homosexuals should be second-class citizens, if you think homosexuality is a sin that you must legislate against then you do not belong in the democratic party.

same thing with a woman's right to privacy.

it certainly is that simple and anyone who claims otherwise is not being honest about the reality of abortion history.

[JerseygirlCT]

44. Thank you

Any individual is free to object to abortion insofar as her own choice goes.

No one should be free to limit another person's choice in such a deeply personal matter.

[Ohio Joe]

49. Agreed and well said - nt

[customerserviceguy]

55. Stupak's trying to gin up some "radical" talk

while this reconciliation thing is going on. He'd love to see someone work in no abortion restrictions in reconciliation, it would make the bill fall completely apart.

This is just political gamesmanship, he's pushing the hot buttons to get the response he wants.

[saigon68]

6. Stupak= a tool of pedophile Priests

[AllentownJake]

9. He's menonite, not catholic nt.

[hobbit709]

14. That doesn't necessarily bar him from being a tool.

[AllentownJake]

17. No but he is not catholic.

[erinlough]

51. Not that I care, but

everything I googled said he is Catholic. I would love a link to your info.

[JerseygirlCT]

53. He said he was Catholic nt

[Kaleva]

56. Stupak is a life long Catholic.

"The Stupak Amendment was promulgated by a devout Catholic Democrat from Michigan, who is now being celebrated as a pro-life hero."

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/CatholicBishopsCalltheShots.asp

http://illinoiscatholicprayerbreakfast.com/

[saigon68]

58. I never said the mother fucker was a catholic

like this criminal

but YOU ARE MISTAKEN THE COCK SUCKER IS A catholic


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x440049

I never brought his fucked up religion into this you did

[Triana]

7. They are NOT Dems.

Period.

[jefferson_dem]

10. What about others, even on this thread, who also oppose the health care reform bill?

:shrug:

[still_one]

28. Those reasons are not the same, that is a major difference /nt

[AllentownJake]

8. Pelosi doesn't have the votes right now

Or a vote would be scheduled

[jefferson_dem]

11. They want it scored by the CBO before scheduling a vote.

I read where they were hoping to get it there by Friday and, hopefully, get a score by next mid-week.

That's not to say she does have the votes. :)

[AllentownJake]

16. The Senate bill was scored months ago nt

[samrock]

36. They want to score the accompanying legislation that will

be passed afterwards for majorities in both houses BEFORE voting to pass the senate bill in the house.

[AllentownJake]

41. They are dancing and spinning in public

As they try to figure out a way to do what they want to do. It is quite humorous people actually believe any words coming out of politicians mouths at this point in history.

Pelosi doesn't have the votes for the senate bill. The GOP is working on procedural measures to delay any possible vote on reconciliation before March 18th. The CBO numbers are meaningless and will be way off anyway. They haven't figured put how they are going to do it because they are still talking. When they shut up, they have the votes and will schedule one.

[customerserviceguy]

12. And she's running out of time

The Arkansas primary is on May 18th, if Blanche Lincoln gets thrown out by Democratic voters in that state (and mischevious Repukes, since it's an open primary), then you won't see any chance of Blue Dogs supporting this legislation.

[jefferson_dem]

15. This shit is not going into May.

Besides, if Lincoln (a Senate blue dog) gets tossed, it would be an indication that the public wants more (not less) reform. Blue Dogs beware.

[AllentownJake]

19. They have to two weeks from Friday

After that there is a recess and the fall campaign begins. Nothing of significance gets done outside of responses to natural disasters and acts of war.

[customerserviceguy]

25. I interpret the situation differently

Blanche Lincoln voted for the Senate HCR bill, and if she lost her primary, it would be taken as a sign by Blue Dogs that aligning oneself with HCR is like drinking poison. I don't know how you'd get them to make the stretch that voting for a public option, for instance, would make them more popular with voters.

Besides, the open primary is the wild card here. The Repubes might vote for Lincoln's opponent, in order to put such fear in the hearts of Blue Dogs everywhere (thus insuring the failure of HCR) or they might vote for Lincoln, seeing her as the weakest Democratic candidate in the fall. Either way, fear will spin the story into whatever the listener fears most.

[backscatter712]

52. Considering that Bill Halter went all over TV in favor of the public option...

I'd say that Halter winning would be a sign that voters want health care reform, specifically, real health care reform.

Disingenuous DINOs might try to spin it as "Health care is unpopular", but Scott's defeat of Coakely didn't make that meme stick - we're still talking reconciliation, are we not?

[customerserviceguy]

54. It stuck

And only the safest, most progressive Democratic Congressional leaders (as well as the President) are talking reconciliation. I hear silence from the Blue Dogs, and anyone in a purple district.

[KharmaTrain]

21. The Nuts And Bolts And Sausage Are Still Being Worked On...

There's a lot of backroom dealing going on right now. And a bit of a Mexican stand-off. The House won't touch the Senate bill until it's assured of the "fixes" that could include public option as well as other provisions of the bill that passed the House last fall. The Senate wants the House to pass the Senate bill and then worry about the fixes afterwards. The delay sounds like Pelosi is getting her way in getting the fixes defined before she moves forward. The end game here will be having the House vote then the Senate in quick order...so the deal has to be done beforehand and the votes assured. From what I can see, Pelosi has the votes in the House and the Bennett letter is closing in on 35 signers.

[AllentownJake]

26. When a vote is scheduled

They have the votes and the way to pass it worked out, until than, all of this is political posturing, bluster, and speculation. They have till march 18th.

[blueworld]

18. Which other legal procedures will they not be subsidizing based on their "principles"? n/t

[RainDog]

22. We're not going to bypass principles we feel strongly about either

Stupak is an enemy of woman in this nation.

He does not deserve to be a democrat. Anyone who claims they support the right to kill women because they don't like reality is a piece of shit.

Because the reality is that anti-choice legislation only serves to endanger the lives of women. It does not effect the number of abortions performed.

I will not donate money to any party that includes him as a member.

If someone wants to give money, they should give it to candidates that reflect their values, not a political party that is willing to KILL WOMEN.

The backlash is coming, democrats.

Independents are not anti-choice.

[Toots]

23. I don't believe twelve Democrats voting no is enough to stop it.

I think Democrats have to lose eighteen to cause it to go down, and who knows maybe just maybe a Republican or two will break ranks.

[RainDog]

24. his principle is that he wants to give money to the Catholic Church via HCR

the reality is that the Catholic Church hospitals cannot receive federal funding if they refuse to perform a legal medical procedure because of their religious beliefs.

so, let the catholic hospitals survive with their hate for women intact and their federal funding gone.

others can provide healthcare that's based upon reality, not the voodoo of religion.

[AllentownJake]

30. Actually if he is an observant menonite

He has a Theological opposition to abortion. I have no problem with catholic bashing when it is earned. Stupak is not catholic.

[RainDog]

32. the "bishops conference" opposes abortion rights for this reason

it's not catholic-bashing to note the truth.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2009/11/13/the-bishops-huge-financial-stake-stupakpitts

The Bishops' Huge Stake in Healthcare Reform

The justifiable anger at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops for lobbying on the Stupak-Pitts amendment overshadows what is possibly the bigger motive for the Vatican: the billions of dollars at stake for the church's hospitals.

The scale of the church's involvement in the rapidly growing $2.5 trillion dollar American health care industry is staggering.

What the Stupak-Pitts amendment does for the Catholic health care system is omit a competitive advantage secular and other religiously-affiliated hospitals without doctrinal restrictions can use to simultaneously market their services to both the expected influx of newly insured patients and the outpatient medical professionals who will treat them.

By restricting insurance coverage of women's reproductive health care, the competitive barriers faced by Catholic institutions will be eliminated... Which is why pro-choice advocates should expect nothing short of a full-frontal attack by the Vatican on conservative Senators.

[AllentownJake]

34. Stupak is not catholic

I disagree with him but I have the brains to at least know my opponents religion.

[RainDog]

35. He can be a non-Catholic and still work to provide money for them.

personally, I don't care what religion someone claims to use as an excuse. it really doesn't matter. what matters is what they do.

the point is that this is the reason for the legislation.. to protect a religious group that wants to discriminate against women.

he has aligned with the catholics. he supports their position.

The name is assigns to his cult is of little matter to me.

[spanone]

27. fuck these so-called democrats....fuck them

[n2doc]

29. Anybody primarying this bastard? n/t

[Kaleva]

57. Nobody has tried since 2000 I believe.

[sinkingfeeling]

33. Of course, there really isn't any provision subsidizing abortion in the Senate bill.

[mod mom]

37. I just emailed Josh Marshall for linking this story to Breitbart. WTF?

Glad you used another source, still_one! :hi:

[COLGATE4]

38. To paraphrase Forrest Gump

Stupak is as Stupak does. He's just a thick-headed ex-cop from the wilds of Northern Michigan whose next thought will be his first. It's infuriating to think that a moron like this (and 11 of his BFF's) can hold up HCR.

[unblock]

40. 12 "dems" side with repugs to make centrist bill more repuglian, at the risk of crippling a dem prez

obama should hold a press conference and announce that he is very disappointed that that 12 formerly democratic senators just informed him that they had left the party in any meaningful sense of the word, and that the democratic party would continue to strongly pursue its goals with a strong minority in the senate.

the 12 senators would then be on their knees begging to reclaim their democratic party fealty.

[Vidar]

42. I vote for euthanizing Stupak.

[The Wizard]

43. As long as secret off shore accounts

are being filled to the tune of $1.4 million a day, this will be dragged out as long as possible.
The Democrats know that if they fail to produce a health care bill they're headed back to minority status.
This is one of the major planks in the platform, and they know how the voters feel.
Some provisions will have to go into effect immediately for the voters to get a taste of a little freedom from the health care cartel that's been ass raping the citizens for years.

[RainDog]

46. how does this care health bill bypass the health care cartel?

without a public option?

[gkhouston]

45. Sigh. What color are the Kabuki scarves today? n/t

[harun]

47. Senate should vote on the House HCR bill.

[jefferson_dem]

48. They could try but it would never reach the floor for a vote.

Remember..60 votes required and Scott Brown and all that?

Reconciliation can only be used as a "fix" not for the entire package.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

50. Maybe we cna get 12 Republicans if we apply enough pressure a few

came over in the Senate on the jobs bill. Will your GOP obstruct your future and health, sounds a good slogan. OR some independent challlengers if they don't choose to relent.