21 year old godson in the Army at Ft. Gordon, FUBAR, need some advice.

[elocs]

He finished a tour of duty in Afghanistan (up in the mountains near the Pakistan border) last August and went to Ft. Gordon from Ft. Hood for advanced computer training. (He re-upped in August for another 6 years because he loves the Army.)

This month he was scheduled to go Germany for 3 years. Earlier this year he was to take his PT (physical training) test, but they twice canceled it because there was snow and although he didn't care if there was snow because he was from Chicago they still canceled because at Ft. Gordon they would only conduct the tests in large groups (he has never failed any test and other places would give the test to individuals).

By the time he could take the PT test again he was sick with strep throat. A week later he thought he had recovered and they sent him out into the field and he came back sick again. During this time while he was recovering he took another test (not PT) even though he could have avoided it because he could have taken bed rest. He passed the test with a score of 96. He thought he could tough out the PT test, but when he tried it he got to where he could not breathe and he passed out and was taken to the ER.

Needless to say the sergeants were pissed at him because he failed the PT test (believe me, I saw this kid at Christmas and he is absolutely buff and in shape) like it was somehow his fault, so one sergeant in particular decided to make life miserable for him. My godson did pass the PT test but was told that they only sign off on it on Wednesdays (this was 2 weeks ago). He checked everyday on the status of his orders because he was going home for a visit before his battalion left for Germany on the 10th of this month.

As it turns out the sergeant "forgot" to turn in his paperwork Wednesday and not only will he not be able to come home this weekend before he goes to Germany for 3 years, his battalion will leave without him because he won't have his orders yet. Needless to say, he is furious, but it seems this is being done to him deliberately to get him to negatively react and get into trouble. He has been threatened with Article 15s (nonjudicial punishment) for standing up for himself and his rights. In other words, he pissed off some NCO who now has it in for him.

My godson claims that this entire matter could be taken care of with an email and could be solved in less than an hour. He is afraid he will miss going with his battalion to Germany and then might get different orders to go elsewhere (like back to Afghanistan) if his orders are further delayed and messed up. He has already tried going to the chaplain, but didn't get any help there.

It seems like Ft. Gordon is a real crappy place and is already under investigation for a lot of things. My godson was there for his initial AIT after basic a few years ago and one day while all the troops were out on maneuvers somebody broke open all of their lockers and stole any electronic equipment they could find (sure sounded like an inside job). I read a comment from a guy in Iraq who said he would rather spend another year there than to go back to Ft. Gordon so it must be a terrible place.

Any suggestions? His mother is beside herself, but feels there is not much that she can do herself because her son's life would be hell if it went around that he had to get "mommy" to help him. But the kid is really getting demoralized with this situation.

[FarCenter]

1. He's in the Army -- what do you expect?

Situation Normal...

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. Maybe he could write to his CO about it?

Without accusing anyone, he might ask to be kept with his unit while the paperwork follows him.

[NoNothing]

3. He needs to see his First Sergeant

That is the guy in charge of NCOs in his company and responsible for dealing with this kind of bullshit. He will either resolve it or get the CO involved.

[old mark]

4. Fort Gordon was a shithole when I was there in the late 1960's.

And what you are describing is NOT very uncommon - it is a poorly run place, many of the officers and cadre in training/replacement units are not the best or they would not be there. If he can bear it till he leaves to re-join his unit, he would be better off. Just suck it up and get out of there, and speak to someone in his regular unit later to see if they left any bad reports in his file.

FWIW, the barraks and hospital at Gordon were built as temporary structures in WWII, sere still in use in 1969. A miserable place.

mark

[HereSince1628]

8. I thought the USASESS had good facilities in 1970. Really. Clean, modern

I was there about 9 months and took 2 schools to get my 31J20-B3 MOS.

I thought the PEOPLE in surrounding GA, and the redneck grads of the MP school on the base were sociopaths. Black civilian workers and black platoon members were referred to as "MY BOYS." Rolling a soldier 'looking for a fuck' was child's play for Augusta high school jocks and their cheerleader girlfriends.

Two of the soldiers in my squad (I was a squad leader in a training company) had judgements made against them for being gay. One, from New York state, was denied leave over Christmas. He was murdered while walking back to the company from the cinema. Another soldier, from small town Pennsylvania, was detained and later released from the Army because in early December, just after arriving on post, he sat in a theater next to the first soldier and according to the CIS didn't reject the 'petting' of the other soldier strenuously enough 'to be convincing' to be considered "straight."

There was a war on, there was conscription, these guys VOLUNTEERED. And the fuck-up grads of the MP school at Ft. Gordon thought purging gays during the Christmas holidays was fun.

Living on Wrightsboro Road just off Bobby Jones Expressway and a couple miles from the Master's tournament didn't make my time in Red Dirt, USA pleasant.

[elocs]

11. Evidently there has already been a Congressional investigation there about the hospital.

From a letter from a father whose son was at Ft. Gordon in 2007:
http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1791973305/m/6650091541001

You will find many postings by current active duty soldiers and their parents and spouses. Many of the parents who have posted are veterans like me and many of the current active duty soldiers who have posted are mid range to senior enlisted personnel that have recently been there for classes. You will find that the majority of the posts describe the conditions at Fort Gordon and the quality of the leadership as deplorable. Theft of soldiers’ personal property is rampant and one parent who was a former US Marine described the barracks as looking like a ghetto. While the ghetto comment is, in my opinion, somewhat excessive I have to say that on my first visit when we dropped my son off after he graduated from Basic Combat Training (BCT) at Fort Jackson, I was very surprised to see how shabby the post looked when compared to 1972.

[DrDan]

5. I have never been to Fort Gordon, but

have spent many years in the military. I was in the AF, but due to the nature of my job, spent a lot of time with the Army.

First - take the complaints with a grain of salt. It is just in the nature of all in the military to (1) hate your current duty post and (2) think your previous post was the best place to be stationed.

Second - I would really be surprised to find he is being singled-out for some sort of punishment. That will involve quite a bit of effort and is usually avoided unless absolutely necessary. The fact that his current Chaplain could not provide any additional help is a bit of a clue in my mind. Just do not expect the Army to be flexible - it rarely happens.

He does not want to be labeled as any type trouble-maker. That could truly make his life miserable.

I am sure this is not the advice you want to hear - but I suggest "go with the flow" - do what he needs to do to ship out with the rest of his battalion. I was in Germany for 4 years - loved it. I am sure he will also.

Any way his Mother can arrange to visit him there?

[DevonRex]

7. +1. Agree with everything you said.

Go with the flow is the best advice. He must NOT go outside the normal chain of command because that really will label him as a troublemaker. That kind of thing will follow him to his next duty station.

[DrDan]

9. absolutely - funny how those reputations follow one to the next duty station

[elocs]

13. His last post was Afghanistan and he didn't consider that to be the best place

to be stationed. His battalion leaves in 6 days and all he needs is his paperwork taken care of. I wonder about the being singled out since the sergeant conveniently "forgot" to take care of it yesterday after telling him last week he would have to wait until this Wednesday. I have read a lot of negative comments about Ft. Gordon, so I don't think his is an isolated case.

He said that the chaplain told him he was not with his battalion, but he would see what he could do which evidently is not much. My godson is not a new recruit but a veteran of Afghanistan where he was at a forward operating post in the mountains of Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan. I wonder when the last time, if ever, the NCOs at Ft. Gordon were in any kind of combat situation.

I agree with you that it is most likely he will just have to suck it up. The best he could hope for was to join his unit in Germany. I think he might already have had his car sent there. He was supposed to be home in Chicago tomorrow (Friday) and I was going to see him there for maybe the last time in another 3 years.

Such is life, but it still sucks.

[maxrandb]

6. Send a letter, or an e-mail on behalf of him

to your Congressman or Senator, or both.

Once that is done, it becomes what we in the military call a "Congressional Inquiry". Congressional staff will task his command to look into the complaint and take action, if warranted, so be sure he's not just "blowing smoke up your skirt".

Trust me, we take Congressional Inquiries seriously, and they will get the attention of his CO.

[elocs]

10. A letter (2007) from a father whose son was going through Ft. Gordon hell:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1791973305/m/6650091541001

Here is one of the comments:

sigsouljah

Posted Fri 05 October 2007 02:47 AM Hide Post
WOW.

I haven't stopped by Military.com in a while, but during AIT I actively searched it and read the forums for information on what I should expect once I was out of AIT. I also attended AIT at Ft.Gordon about a year and a half ago. I am now on my 13th month of my Iraq tour and I can honestly say that I would rather be here for another year than re-live my time spent in Ft.Gordon. It was a place I will remember as one of the worst experiences of my life. I thought I had it rough having to attend Ft.Benning for basic training as a support soldier.

I am not very surprised to see that it has become such a huge problem for so many people there. I am under the assumption that the old chain of command still runs the 15th Signal. It was a very very poor, negative environment since the moment I got there. The leaders were all very dishonest with us and our 1SG did everything in his power to scare us and make us miserable. I remember him finding a food wrapper in my backpack for school and telling me I had eaten food in the barracks against the SOP (wasn't the case) and threatened me that I would lose my security clearence and be forced to re-class infantry. While I was not scared of becoming infantry, I moreso wouldn't know how to explain not making it through AIT to my loved ones and it had me very worried. Nothing ever happened other than the threat.

Either way, the whole way they ran things was very unfair and twisted. We dealt with it because we really had no choices. We even had a soldier attempt suicide then he was openly ridiculed by our 1SG in front of the entire company on a weekend briefing. I felt disgusted that someone that signed up on their own free will to serve our country would be treated like such garbage by a man who seemingly had no morals, yet was in such a powerful position. Lastly, he constantly would tell the group that we would be on Stars and Stripes and would be dead within a year in Iraq when someone had messed up (very very unfair mass punishment went on). Things like that made it the worst experience I have yet in the Army and then and there I decided to serve my time and get out. Never once have I seriously reconsidered reenlisting or serving any other branch. On a side note I come from a military family - Dad was a Major in the Air Force and sister currently attends West Point.

I am wondering if my godson had knew then what he knows now if he would have reenlisted last August. I have read a lot of comments about Ft. Gordon to know by now that it is not a good place and it does not have a good reputation. I too think that his only real recourse might be to suck it up and roll with the punches and hope he gets to join his battalion in Germany. All of this over not getting a paper signed.

[Zywiec]

12. He's been in the Army for rmany years and must know how the CoC works.

Why hasn't he exercised that?

He should speak with his squad leader, platoon leader, commander, etc. I don't know many commanders that don't have an open door policy.

Again, very surprising that they would hold up a PCS move because of a PT test.

:patriot:

[elocs]

14. Well, I went to Military.com and read tons of forum posts about Ft. Gordon.

Most do agree that it is at best a shabby and poorly run place with a lot of theft, stupidity, NCOs that don't care, and lack of communication. Yet the only thing that I've heard my godson complain about is how they are screwing him over with his paperwork and orders and how hard it is to find somebody to help even using the chain of command (I thought "YOYO": You're On Your Own, was the freeper motto).

In the end I do think he will just have to suck it up and get out of there as soon as he can and hopefully be able to join his battalion in Germany (they leave on the 10th). From what I have read Ft. Gordon is just a big pothole on the Army road that many have to drive over. You just don't let it damage you so you can keep on keeping on the path. He not a new soldier having been in 3 1/2 years and done a tour in Afghanistan and he made it through Ft. Gordon the first time (the only complaint then was when he and a lot of the others guys had their lockers broken into and stuff stolen while they where in the field). He knows how things work, but his current situation sucks and he did hope to get home to see his family before he left for 3 years. It's just a little demoralizing, but this too shall pass.

[elocs]

15. My godson is getting some help on this matter from a relative in the military.

He has a 2nd cousin who is a Major, a decorated veteran of Iraq, who called him and advised him what to do as well as specifically giving him numbers to call. He told my godson that he should respectfully inform those at Ft. Gordon as to what he was going to do. Hopefully this will get things moving.

This major was impressed with my godson, that he had never failed any tests before (particularly PT) and that he had never been in trouble. Also, although he always had the help of this cousin available, he never called on it before but tried to work things out himself. This was how his mother knew that he was desperate because he just doesn't call her to say he needs help (the major is her 1st cousin, her uncle's son).

I also had the details of my godson's problem reaffirmed. He had before gone through the chain of command concerning the sergeant with whom he was having the trouble. When this sergeant found out about this he threatened him with an article 15 (nonjudicial punishment) and that intimidated him. This is no different from the regular work world where an employee's superior may wrongly threaten them for reporting something that the superior does not like or that may get them in trouble.

So in the wee hours of this morning my godson was calling his CO who is already in Germany to let him know of the situation. He missed an opportunity to visit home, but maybe he can leave on schedule with the rest of his unit next Wednesday. He knows that Ft. Gordon is not a good place and has poor leadership, but unfortunately that is the place he will have to go to again for any further training he needs. But through this difficulty and with his cousin's help and advice he has learned better how the system works, or doesn't, and what he can do to remedy it.