Teacher suspended for denying Wiccan altar

[proud2BlibKansan]

A Guthrie Center teacher this week received a five-day unpaid suspension for insubordination for not allowing a student to build a Wiccan altar in his shop class - discipline he said he still doesn't agree with.

Dale Halferty, who has taught industrial arts at Guthrie Center High School for three years, said he was asked to meet with the school district superintendent and high school principal when he returns to work Tuesday.

Halferty said Wednesday he still doesn't understand why school officials are forcing him to act against his own beliefs as a Christian and allow the student to disrupt his class with a project based on a religion he believes is wrong and bad for youth.

"Personally, I think it's offensive to worship rocks and trees," Halferty said of Wicca, a religion based on ancient beliefs and a reverence for the Earth. "I am just trying to be moral. I don't know how we can profess to be Christians and let this go on."

more . . . http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100304/NEWS/3040352

[Tim01]

1. Wow. He's really ate up. nt

[Ron Green]

2. Don't worship trees, cut 'em into boards.

[Cetacea]

140. +1

[alp227]

3. Good job GCHS! Keep standing up for religious freedom!

I'd feel the same if the student were building a cross or menorah and Halferty prohibited the student from doing so.

[Ignis]

47. I sure hope you're kidding.

The guy is obviously a bigot, and this is just his chance to evangelize for his chosen religion at the expense of others.

RTFA.

[antigone382]

54. I think the poster was congratulating the school for punishing this teacher...

...not congratulating the teacher for being a bigot :)

[alp227]

75. Yes, correct. +1

Bigotry is bigotry. If I were principal, I'd fire any teacher who personally attacked a student or other faculty member based on religion, race, sexual orientation, or other trait that the school legally cannot use to discriminate against people.

[Ignis]

107. Oh, good.

I thought your post above was lauding the school for supporting the teacher who wouldn't allow the student to build the altar. Thanks for clarifying.

:hi:

[csziggy]

148. He had done so, he claims

From the link in the OP:
"After the student told him he was a practicing witch, Halferty said, he told the student he could work on his project but must keep any religious materials at home. He said the student kept returning to class with a book of witchcraft, which prompted him to tell the student he couldn't build the altar in his class.

"Halferty has said he previously told another student he could not build a cross in shop class because he believes in the separation of church and state."

So at least he is being consistent.

[DesertFlower]

4. what about us non-christians

who have christianity shoved down our throats?

[timtom]

98. Where the hell do you hang out

that Christianity is "shoved down throats"?

I live in South Florida, and Christianity most certainly not shoved down my throat.

Perhaps you should change the channel and avoid televangelists.

[Taverner]

117. oh its shoved down our throats all right

you just don't see it being a Christian

[timtom]

122. You may be quite right.

But, would you explain a couple of circumstances?

[philly_bob]

126. Preacher prayer before public meetings, funding of 'faith-based' programs,

school textbooks written to Texas anti-evolutionary standards.

Off the top of my head.

[timtom]

127. Thanks.

Maybe South Florida is different. I see none of that outside of church. And, then, it's only prayer.

[Taverner]

132. Catholics aren't as proselytizing as Fundies and Evangelicals

Go up North, and you'll find more of the pushy Christians

[Taverner]

131. "Hi I'm Bob! Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?"

[Geek_Girl]

145. I lived in South Florida folks are pretty tolerant of different beliefs

Now North Florida, Central and anywhere in the south east you will have evangelicals trying to shove religion down your throat.

[Larkspur]

5. Like with most neo-Puritans, this teacher only thinks freedom of religion applies to them

not anyone else.

[Wizard777]

52. Especially down south.

I've actually had people down there tell me, with a straight face, the first amendment only protects christians. :wow:

[Enrique]

6. he 'still doesn't understand'

they should suspend him until he does understand.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. MTE

It's not about what offends him. He is the freakin teacher. He needs to buck it up and do his job.

[Jkid]

7. Good, that should remind him that this country is a nation of relgious tolerance.

[Echo In Light]

11. +1

[TommyO]

8. Congratulations to the school board and principal for doing the right thing

and supporting the student's rights.

[crim son]

10. Yeah, well. Fire him

if his religious beliefs won't allow him to do his job. I'm sure he can find something "Christian" to do with his life.

[NNN0LHI]

12. I wonder if the school is named after Arlo?

[hootinholler]

23. Woodie n/t

[jody]

13. I assume a favorable student book report on "Mein Kampf" would also be acceptable?

I really don't know how to react to the incident given the multiethnic, multicultural, multiracial society in which we live.

Darn there is so much more pressure on teachers today than in the small country school I attended 70 years ago.

:thumbsup: to all teachers

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Teachers need to be tolerant

This guy isn't.

[jody]

22. I agree re "be tolerant" but are there some things that will not be tolerated? What if the student

chose to make a detailed wooden replica of a Colt 45?

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. That would probably violate state safe schools laws

[jody]

26. We agree but then could not a state ban any religious symbol? If so then the teacher would have

been right in the action he took.

Similar situations have occurred over books assigned for reading where parents objected.

Darn, I really do appreciate the dedication all teachers have to continue under such pressure.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. I have never heard of religious symbols being banned

[jody]

35. Alabama Chief Justice Moore was kicked out of office for displaying the Ten Commandments in a state

building.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. I thought we were talking about schools

Sorry for the confusion.

[jody]

43. No problem, I believe the Ten Commandments cannot be displayed in schools if the

intent is to clearly promote religion but are permitted in a secular context. That per a SCOTUS decision in 2005.

[antigone382]

63. He was an official representative of the government.

The student is not. In general (and counter to the cries of the "persecuted" zealots who claim "our CHILDREN can't PRAY in SCHOOL!!!"), students are allowed to practice and express their religious beliefs in school, so long as their religious activities are not led by a teacher or administrators (employees of the state), are not unduly pressuring others into participating, and are not disrupting the educational process--interrupting a teacher's lecture with a sudden loud prayer, for example. While there are educational situations where the expression of religion is not necessarily appropriate (citing scripture or theology to back up a point in a persuasive essay, for example), there is no reason to prevent a student from expressing their religion in art, creative or personal writing, or in this case, a shop class--particularly when preventing such expression is selective, based on a teacher's personal preferences, as this teacher admitted was the case.

[jody]

71. My reply was to #33. Agree with your point but wonder how students from small religious groups

are treated.

In my county a few years ago a new family left after a short time in the area because their children were treated shabbily by students and faculty purely over their religion.

[tblue37]

144. The school OR the teacher CAN deem certain subjects or projects off limits

for academic work, as long as they do so even-handedly. This idiot singled out the student's religion as "immoral" and presumed to say what it is and is not appropriate to worship. He has a right to say so outside of the classroom, as a private citizen, but never in his role as teacher.

[Posteritatis]

27. Please tell me you didn't compare a Wiccan altar to Mein Kampf. (nt)

[jody]

32. I simply gave one example of an item that is not accepted by the majority of society. n/t

[Ignis]

38. Most Americans don't "accept" mezuzahs, either.

That doesn't make them morally equivalent to Mein Kampf. :argh:

Kindly take a step back and think hard about the analogy you're making here, and how offensive it is to a significant number of DUers.

[jody]

40. No problem, just substitute any symbol book, image etc. for my original contrast and the result is

the same.

Surely there is some minority group in society with which you disagree, perhaps a swastika?

Don't let my contrast mislead you, IMO the shop teacher was wrong.

[Ignis]

42. You're confusing secular practices/symbols with religion.

One has protection under the Constitution; the other does not.

I'm sure you're trying to make a larger point here, but the opacity of your argument isn't helping. Perhaps you could spell out more clearly how Mein Kampf is equivalent to a mezuzah?

[jody]

44. SCOTUS says religious items can be displayed in a secular context but not not in a manner to

promote religion.

[Ignis]

45. ...And how is Mein Kampf a religious item? (nt)

[jody]

48. History records that Hitler grew up in the Roman Catholic church. His biographers suggest

that once he had conquered Europe and established his thousand year reich he intended to replace the Catholic religion with his own concocted religion based on Aryan myths and who knows what else.

Mein Kampf was revered by his followers.

[Ignis]

50. Mein Kampf is a religious item of *what* religion, precisely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

[jody]

51. For a start, read "Adolf Hitler's religious views" and its references.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

[Ignis]

59. Thanks, I'm quite familiar with the history. I'm not asking for a history lesson.

I'm asking for the name of the religion that uses Mein Kampf as a holy book, tool, icon, or other religious icon.

[jody]

60. Since you don't need history lessons, then answer your own question. Goodbye. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

87. You were wrong and you were cornered on it.

Everyone is wrong once in a while. Those of us with the big kid pants learn to admit it with grace.

[jody]

88. I was not wrong but some people have a chip on their shoulder. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

89. You aren't merely wrong. You're making a laughing stock of yourself.

[redqueen]

121. Yep. (nt)

[Ignis]

115. And some people think passive-aggressive behavior is OK. (nt)

[Zhade]

136. Yes, you were. It's painfully obvious, too.

You should quit while you're behind.

[Ignis]

108. Touchy, are we? It's a straightforward question. (nt)

[donco6]

118. A perfectly legitimate question.

I'd love an answer to that one.

[Tailormyst]

57. WTF? please do not compare my religion to Nazism

[jody]

62. My post was not a comparison, merely an example of conflicting views. n/t

[Tailormyst]

66. No- talking about making a cross or an essay on Hindism would have been a comparison

Not comparing it to the worst genocidal regimes in modern history. You should probably delete that if you can. it's incredibly offensive.

[jody]

70. My post did not disparage the Wiccan religion as I stated. Do you protest every DU post that

actually demeans and disparages religion in general, an action not at all similar to mine but one that would apply to the Wiccan religion?

Do you want DU to censor all such posts?

The broad issue in the OP is whether a public school should allow students to use religious symbols for class projects, e.g. building a Wiccan altar or a book report on the Bible.

Since most posts in this thread and mine support the student's right to build a Wiccan altar, I assume those authors also support a student's right to write a book report on any part of the Bible, Quran, Book of Mormon, or other religious writing.

[Tailormyst]

79. You did not choose any of those though.

You chose Nazism as the comparison. I'm not sure why you can't understand how offensive that is to others. Anyway- you do what you want. I can't stop you. I just think you made some comments that were of really bad taste and when told that others find real offense you chose instead to defend it. If that's who you want to be then so be it. I'm done with this conversation.

[Dragonfli]

72. If you ask me, I'd say you are a rather hateful person

I am no fucking nazi.

Do you know anything, anything at all about Wicca?

Among other things, we DO NOT PUSH OUR BELIEFS ON OTHERS.

No Wiccan I know or have ever met would proselytize, this is not a question of a student attempting to do anything other than a project important on a personal level, for personal use.

If I were not a pacifist I would punch you in the mouth for the Nazi comparison.
But as it stands, I shall tolerate your ignorance and hate and just shake my head.

[jody]

73. I do not know Wicca doctrine but my few friends of that faith have diverse beliefs just as

I find among those of other religions.

I assume you are angry at those DUers who post disparaging and demeaning comments about religion so vent your anger against them instead of me because I'm not your enemy.

[Posteritatis]

74. I assume he's angry at your claim that Wicca and Naziism are in any way comparable.

I don't buy the "but but but people object to both!" line.

[jody]

77. The issue in the OP was whether schools should permit projects with religious themes. If people

don't see that, then they have a problem.

My example with Mein Kampf is valid and certainly provokes replies because Hitler's biographers point to the religious theme of many passages in the book.

I wonder if those who support the Wicca faith reply with such anger to posts in DU's Religion/Theology forum that disparage religion in general?

[Ignis]

109. I'll ask again, Mein Kampf is a holy book/tool in WHICH religion?

If you can answer that question, people might stop assuming you're a bigot who's comparing Nazism to Wicca.

[Dragonfli]

76. Then stop behaving as an enemy. Since "Some of your best friends are Wiccan" I

suggest you ask them what the student would do with his hand crafted alter that would in any way involve influencing other students.

This is not a book report intended to influence others as you pretend to claim, he is crafting his own tools in a shop (appropriate, I happen to be a carpenter) because one is often encouraged to make such things personal, using one's own hands.

Why would you deny him the use of what may be his only wood shop to do it in?
Actually you are an enemy and are arguing in ignorance, I am not buying this "some of my best friends are---" bullshit either.

Spread your intolerance at a site more suited please.

[jody]

78. I never objected to the student's project. You've become so angry that you can't understand what I

write.

Have a great evening and goodbye. :hi:

[Tailormyst]

80. How difficult would it be to just apologize?

To just say "sorry, I didn't meant o offend you guys" . That's what most people would do. We all screw up sometimes and say or do the wrong thing without meaning to.

[jody]

86. I've said nothing for which an apology is appropriate. n/t

[Ignis]

110. Some people are never, ever wrong. NEVAR!

So it goes. :shrug:

[JoeyT]

82. Well, had the person

used "a prayer wheel with Swastika" they might have had a point. (Though I'm not sure what point they were trying to make in the first place.) Not because of the Nazi symbolism, but because of the symbols use in Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism. Even then it would've been a stretch. As far as I know no Wiccan or Pagan symbols were ever used the way the swastika was.

A student probably wouldn't get in trouble for a favorable report on Mein Kampf. Especially not from that teacher.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

147. He's just using his freedom of expression. Don't try and censor him.

[ShamelessHussy]

100. it should be

as it would have been an excellent opportunity for a teachable moment.

however this case has nothing to do with politics, it is about FREEDOM of religion.

FYI

[winyanstaz]

134. What has a racist little nazi book have to do with the Wiccan religion?

What even makes them comparable in your mind?

[Ignis]

141. Apparently, the answer is "Watch the History Channel."

That's the best sense I can make from the replies to this very question, at least.

:shrug:

[tblue37]

143. Essays and reports are supposed to be graded according to certain

criteria--including logic. Have you read Mein Kampf? Its premises are obvioulsy flawed, as are its conclusions. A favorable report on it would be equally flawed.

On the other hand, a favorable report on a political position that I don't agree with, as long as it is supported with either factual evidence or reasoned argument, would be graded according to the quality of the writing, not according to whether I agree with the student's political position. Similarly, even if a student's political position is exactly the same as mine, he cannot get a good grade if he makes assertions without properly supporting them either with factual evidence or with reasoned argument.

The situation in this case was quite different. The schools (and by extension, teachers) are not allowed to say that a student's religion is unacceptable to them and that therefore they will suppress the student's right to express his religion. Unless that teacher is equally strict about not allowing other students (including Christians) to make things related to their religion, he has no right to forbid this student from doing so. And whether he forbids the making of all religious objects in shop class or not (and I contend that he does have the right to do that), he still has no right to tell the student that his religion is "immoral."

The teacher could have simply said that he doesn't allow students to make religious objects in class, because those are not appropriate objects for the situation. But he singled out a specific religion, and did so while calling it immoral.

When my students write their essays (I teach college English), I don't allow them to write about their religious sentiments, because those are not a suitable subject for the sort of academic essay they are supposed to write.

For example, last semester a Saudi student told me he wanted to write his first analytical essay about God's greatness. I told him absolutely not. That is simply not a subject that lend itself to the sort of essay we write in class. Furthermore, it would be impossible for me to grade such an essay without incurring charges of religious intolerance, because if there were problems with the essay as essay (and there always are, no matter who the student is or what he is writing about), then the student would suspect that it was my agnosticism that led me to grade him down rather than his inadequate writing skills, and I will not be put in that position. But I also would not allow an agnostic or an atheist to write a supposed analytical essay declaring religion nonsense. It's just not the right kind of topic for our assignments.

[krabigirl]

14. He should quit his job if he can't be tolerant of other beliefs.

ignorant idiot...when will the rapture come and take these freaks away?!

[ieoeja]

15. We could have had a real flame fest if he'd done it for separation of church and state.

Fortunately for us he proved to be proud of his bigotry.

[KittyWampus]

17. Read the article- that's what he is claiming.

[Posteritatis]

37. Then why his ranting about how offensive Wicca is, and his "trying to be moral"? (nt)

[Ignis]

41. "I think it's offensive to worship rocks and trees"

Nah, he tries to take the moral high ground, then shoots himself in the foot by revealing the depth of his bigotry.

[guitar man]

16. hmmm

why do I have trouble believing this:

"Halferty has said he previously told another student he could not build a cross in shop class because he believes in the separation of church and state."

:shrug:

[KittyWampus]

18. it does seem incongruous.

[guitar man]

19. If it weren't for the way he was going on earlier

I might be a little more inclined to believe him. If it is indeed true, I'd have a little more respect for him, but he would still have it wrong.

IMO, allowing the kids to build a wiccan altar, a cross or any other symbol of their faith in shop class does not violate seperation of church/state as long as non are excluded. However, requiring students to build such things would be a violation of seperation.

at least that's the way I see it.

[petronius]

30. If he was truly motivated by a separation issue, then the matter would be

finished when the administration and the school attorney explained to him that there was no problem with a religiously motivated student project. His continued resistance indicates to me that that isn't really his concern at all.

If he did actually prevent another student from building a cross, it was probably because a cross is too easy of a project...

[guitar man]

53. I think you're spot on

He was incensed that the student wanted to do something counter to "Christian rule" and would stop at nothing to prevent him from doing it. He needs to sit down, shut up, take his suspension. From there he can either get with the program or chose his hill to die on.

[Shell Beau]

29. If that were true, then I think this would be somewhat ok.

But I don't believe it either.

[northofdenali]

20. Koolaid sucking scumbag.

Why isn't he "teaching" at a Christian school if his "beliefs" are so strong? His "morality" is not only questionable but WRONG.

[era veteran]

25. Should be fired

[WeDidIt]

28. Suspension is too good for this goober

Fire his dumb ass.

[Skidmore]

31. That man needs to be reminded that his job is to teach kids how

to build things. He's not hired to be a preacher and his beliefs should be left at the door when he enters the classroom.

[proud2BlibKansan]

+1

[deaniac21]

34. I wonder if he would let an English peasant build a bridge out

of a witch?

[Codeine]

36. Kids shouldn't be making any religious symbols in school shops.

Neither Jesus freakery nonsense nor animistic hippy bullshit are appropriate for a public school venue. Keep your Invisible Skydaddy/Earthmommy junk out of secular public schools.

[NNN0LHI]

46. I think that sums this up in a nutshell

I really like brevity.

Don

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. On this, you speak for me. n/t

[Cleobulus]

56. The school has to be secular, the students don't have to be, some people seem to have a problem...

free expression around here.

[Codeine]

81. I am not of the belief that children

have the right to free expression in a school environment.

[Cleobulus]

83. When it comes to religion they do have that right, with few limits...

indeed the only limit I can think of is the carrying of ceremonial daggers for Sikhs, and even then a substitute has to be accepted by the school.

[frustrated_lefty]

58. The course sounds like a grandiose shop class.

If the project displays the necessary skills and talent, the subject matter is largely irrelevant.

Teens often love to shock the viewer. Going all secular on their ass just adds fuel to that fire.

[frustrated_lefty]

65. The teacher doesn't sound like a hate-monger,

just a young, well intentioned teacher with an overblown sense of his responsibility to his students and poor sense of where his responsibility ends. In fairness, it can be difficult for a young teacher to distinguish between providing guidance and invading a student's space.

A lot of the lenience in my view of the situation is dependent on the assumption that this is a young instructor with the best of intentions. Based on that assumption, I think he should be required to take weekly courses in tolerance training.

[Posteritatis]

67. He described a student's religion as "offensive" and wants it forbidden.

That's hate as far as I'm concerned.

[frustrated_lefty]

96. he found the beliefs offensive and didn't want them portrayed

in his shop. That's a far cry from wanting them forbidden.

Your conception of "hate" is infantile in my view, and it gets in the way of people reconciling differences because, in your view, the dialogue just isn't pc enough. You have the northern elite tone of a person demanding change they have not yet experienced themselves. Walk a mile in someone's shoes before casting that stone in your hand.

[Ignis]

116. "Northern elite tone?!" Oy, what is this, 1860? (nt)

[Cleobulus]

69. What road is paved with the best of intentions again? n/t

[TransitJohn]

64. +1

:hi:

[Tailormyst]

68. I agree- religion should stay separate from school

But what this teacher did and why is the problem.

[mike_c]

101. bingo!

Agreed, 100 percent.

[Viking12]

104. It's freakin' shop class. The course's objective isn't critical thinking.

It is to demonstrate that you can use tools, etc. The symbolism represented by the project has no bearing on assessing the shop skills exhibited by the student.

[LanternWaste]

119. So no lamps made in the form of an elephant?

So no lamps made in the form of an elephant? No carved peace signs? No metal lightning bolts? (each one being a currently used religious symbol).

Is there a list of any and all items which are currently used as religious symbols that should be displayed?

[Ignis]

123. No geometric symbols at all, it would seem.

After all, the circle is one of the primary religious icons of many earth-based religions.

The answer to be gleaned from the approach above appears to be "Ban circles in schools!" I'm not sure how we get there from the 1st Amendment, but so it goes.

ETA: And :thumbsup: to you for the great Breakfast Club allusion! :D

[bigmonkey]

125. Well, that's certainly a uncontroversial statement!

No-one could possibly be offended by that!

[Codeine]

129. I'm a moderate, low-key sort of fellow.

Don't like to rock the boat much. :evilgrin:

[whopis01]

135. Kids shouldn't be told to not express their beliefs by people like you.

Just because you disagree with their beliefs doesn't give you the right to take away their first amendment rights.

[Codeine]

139. Again,

I am not of the opinion that children have "rights" as such, nor am I of the opinion that a school is a place for religious expression.

[whopis01]

142. I understand that you feel some people have rights and some people do not have rights

Fortunately the Constitution does not make the same such distinction.

[Tailormyst]

55. Well I think HIS religion is FAR more destructive.

It's not his place to judge ANY students religious beliefs. He needs to find a new job.

[RedCloud]

61. Title should be "religious moron", not teacher.

[TexasObserver]

84. This guy is fairly typical of many religious types.

He cannot fathom why his ill founded beliefs are not the standard by which we are guided.

Go teach at a church school, John Calvin.

[The Straight Story]

85. If it were a cross he denied we would have DU'ers sending this guy flowers and praising him (nt)

[Codeine]

90. But animistic hippy bullshit gets a pass, always. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

91. While true that if a cross shouldn't be allowed to be made then a Wiccan alter shouldn't either

your comment is very intolerant and hateful. What I think is bullshit is when people call other people's religion bullshit whether that is a Christian calling Wicca bullshit or an atheist calling Christianity bullshit.

[Codeine]

92. Religion is a blight.

It is poison, whether it's the old-fashioned poison of the Bible-thumpers and the Jihadists or the New Age-flavored poison of Wicca, Scientology, or generalized woowoo. It's all fucking fairy tale nonsense and it has absolutely no fucking place in a rational modern world.

[liberal_at_heart]

94. Hate and intolerance are a blight

Whether it is intolerance and hate due to religion or hate and intolerance of religion. Your intolerance is no better than the intolerance of religios people.

[Codeine]

95. I do not hate religious people.

About half the people I know and love have some element of religious thought in their lives. I just think they're idiots for buying all that baloney. They probably think I'm an idiot for being a vegan. That's life, I guess. :shrug:

[Flaneur]

124. And gratuitous insulting drive-posts appear, as always.

You can count on some people...to be dicks.

[donco6]

120. I wouldn't.

In fact, we have it happen quite often. I've seen many, many crucifixes in our arts classes - with a 70% mexican catholic student population, you see it a lot. That and Guadalupe.

[Vidar]

93. Good, he had it coming.

[saltpoint]

97. Mr. Halferty seems not to much like "rocks and trees."

One of the headline apostles, Peter, has a name that invokes 'rock.'

As for trees, they look pretty damn holy to me. Mr. Halferty ought to check out the root system of an oak tree one of these days and see if he isn't amazed by it.

I'm not up to date on what a Wiccan altar involves, but if the student had called it a cabinet for his house cat the project would have proceeded without Halferty's objection.

Sometimes good teaching involves leaving well enough alone.

[Ignis]

113. Since you asked, here are a few examples:

Sacrificial babies not included. (I kid! I kid! :hide: )

[saltpoint]

146. It looks like very handsome work to me. A mature craft for an

enrolled student.

Thank you for the pics.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

99. I hope Obama doesn't publicly approve the suspension

or this thread will go viral.
:hi:

I'm not sure what a "Wiccan altar" is, but if it demonstrates the necessary industrial arts skills (mortise/tenon joints, welding/brazing, adhesives, etc), then it should probably be allowed.

But the issue seems to be whether a teacher's beliefs trump the direct orders of principals and superintendents. This is something the teacher's union will need to get involved in.

[LWolf]

105. Given his record,

he would side, in this case, with the teacher. This is the man who allowed Donnie McClurkin to campaign for him.

A Wiccan altar made of wood is something to set candles, bells, dishes, salt, stones, feathers, and other items used in ritual on. It may have symbols inscribed on it.

So basically, some sort of wooden platform. Maybe with some sort of symbol carved or marked in some way that attracted the teacher's attention; probably a pentacle, which christians mistakenly consider "satanic."

Teachers' beliefs don't trump the first amendment. A public school teacher is a government employee serving the general public.

[Hepburn]

102. Blessed be....

...a school district with some brains! :applause:

[LWolf]

103. "We" don't profess to be Christians.

Our nation is not a christian nation, our government is not a christian government, and our public schools aren't christian schools.

Teachers come from many faiths, but we don't use our positions to promote our faiths, or to deny other faiths.

I hope he "gets" the simple concept of professional behavior when he meets with the superintendent and his principal on Tuesday.

[Hepburn]

106. Quote from the teacher that tells me exactly where he is coming from:

"I don't want any religious symbols in the shop. We as Christians don't get to have our say during school time, so why should he?"


http://www.parentdish.com/2010/03/03/build-a-wiccan-altar-not-in-my-shop-class-teacher-says/

Asshole...:puke:

[Ignis]

112. Yeah, that's pretty telling.

He obviously considers himself a shock troop on the front lines of the War Against Christians. :rofl:

[Soylent Brice]

111. bwahahahaaaaa!!!

:rofl:



but the kid is the crazy one.
gotcha.

[wolfgangmo]

114. The law is pretty clear on this. The teacher is wrong but only in this one way.

The teacher needs to understand the separation of church/state teaching rules state that the students are perfectly free to bring their religion into the schools (provided they do not disrupt the learning environment - usually this is specific to the common spaces in the school and applied to instruction time only within the classroom. It is perfectly OK for a student to bring any holy text they want to school and to use them in any project they are working on in context of their school work.

Students are allowed to form and hold meetings of church or religious related activities as long as their are no official representatives of religions running the meeting for the students and students are able to express their faith any way they want. Of course other students are able to react to that any way they choose to within the bounds of law and school rules. The faculty, staff and administration are not allowed to start, help, facilitate or otherwise assist in any religious meetings and they must respect all faith expressions as long as those faith expressions do not disrupt the learning environment.

In short, it's OK for the students to do it and not for the PAID staff do have anything to do with it including public opinions in the course of their duties.The teacher CAN hold any opinion they have as long as the HOLD it and don't share it.

I used to be a teacher and union rep back in the day and so I used to council and teach other teachers in what lines they could and could not cross. This teacher crossed them when he interfered with a legitimate student project that did not fit in with his erroneous and fallacious interpretation of the law

[callous taoboy]

128. I made a bong in High School art class- My teacher thought it was cool.

This was in 1982.

[winyanstaz]

130. This ignorance will never go away unless people open up and learn a few things.

The Wiccans do not "worship" trees and rocks...they worship the God and Goddess that made those trees and rocks and they realize that each of these trees etc have a spirit as well..as there is a level of consciousness within everything. Even the atom.

There is a reverence for the Earth and the Sun as she is our Material Mother....as well as our Spiritual Mother.

From her all life is born..she is an aspect of the Goddess/feminine of the Universe. Everything you have..everything you eat and even the air you breath comes from the Mother Earth/daughter/crone/wise woman/female/magnetic aspect and the Sky-Father/Sun/Son/wise man/male/electrical aspect. So yes...they are treated with respect and love.

All things come from the union of Force/Father and Form/mother...including you.

This is no worse a religion than one that believes in an angry jealous old male off somewhere that will come back inside the form of his child and kill everyone that doesn't get it right in one life-time and torture them for eternity in some fire for being what he made them and making a wrong choice.

The Wiccan religion is a gentle, loving and healing religion that holds all life sacred. In this it is similar to the Native American Beliefs and the Advanced Yoga Philosophies.

I am sick of the ignorance and the lack of even trying to understand different beliefs and cultures.

This planet is for all of us.

[Zhade]

133. Good. Fuck that whiny, non-oppressed magical thinking douchebag.

What he did was illegal. He's lucky his ass wasn't fucking fired.

[and-justice-for-all]

137. If you would allow a xtian to build an alter...

because you 'approve', then you should also allow the building of a Wicca alter. It is a two way street; Freedom of religion and all that...

But, since this is a public school, there should be no building of anything religious in school.

I would also rather worship rocks and trees, since they DO exist, instead of bronze age desert dogma with invisible friends.

[Ed76638]

138. Christianity is bad for youth.

It's terrible on the developmental mind.