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I have to admit that I really no longer know who to believe, who to believe in or where the truth

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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:45 PM
Original message
I have to admit that I really no longer know who to believe, who to believe in or where the truth
can be found regarding health care, the Patriot Act, torture, our wars or---just about anything else.

I can count on one hand the Democrats that I trust to consistently and honestly pursue "traditional" Democratic values. As a party, we seem to have abandoned labor, the poor, and the "different" among us. The old-style, in your face, "gonna vote for what's right and let the next election take care of itself" Democrat exists now only in history books.

I've come to the conclusion that there just isn't a whole lot I can do about the above. I want to. I am willing to do---something.
But, for now, all I can reasonably accomplish is some introspection, a renewed commitment to the liberal values I've tried to live by since the sixties and a determined effort to prevail, eventually.

I WILL suvive what is to come. I will choose what is right over what comes easily. I will choose integrity over popularity.

But, at my age, I have to acknowledge that I will likely not see the America I foolishly thought I was helping to build with my enthusiasm and my vote in 2008.

Maybe my children will.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. I hear ya
This week I heard a Democratic president approve of firing teachers. Never imagined that would ever happen.

Also pretty upset at the lack of progress on health care.

Tough times.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Education is a corporate racket
Once corporate America figured out there was billions to be made on standardized testing it was all over. I seriously think the long term goal of the education/industrial complex is to eliminate schools and teachers entirely (that's just overhead) and "teach" students at home with just their software and their standardized test. It's not as far fetched as you might think.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I don't think that's far fetched at all
Homeschooling for all! It's the future.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Yeah, but how can parents homeschool when more and more homes are being foreclosed on?
I mean, are we going to begin to hear phrases like, "tent city-schooled" or "car-schooled" or "packing crate-schooled," or even "squalor just outside city limits-schooled?"

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but perhaps we're returning to the age of "education only for the privileged," and the privileged would be those folks who still own homes...
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. 'but perhaps we're returning to the age of "education only for the privileged,"'
I believe that's exactly the plan. You need little education to fire a machine gun at a bunch of brown, Muslim people on the other side of the world. However, you need lots of desperation (no jobs), & lack of critical thinking (never question authority) to get the masses to be fodder for wars that only benefit the elite.
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Red Knight Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. No question about it
They want a dumbed down population.

And they're getting it. Just check the Fox News ratings. We're on our way.

Education will soon be only for the wealthy. The rest will only do menial jobs or underpayed technical jobs that will enslave the student who pursues it to debt for his lifetime.

It's really is all about control.
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #52
64. I didn't read it as sarcasm. And thats pretty scary too!
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Walk away Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
97. On the up side no one will have a job so there will be plenty of time...
to stay home (in your cramped apartment) and teach your kids. :sarcasm:
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
55. There may be another reason
I noticed it when I saw Walter Payton College Prep HS after it was built. The school looked like a corporate HQ. Corporations running schools and education will churn out corporate drones with the skills they need for the future, not the skills our children may need for the future. Home school might be the safest bet from 'corporitizing' our young.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. say bye bye to liberal arts and critical thinking ...
... you're completely right, all the up-and-coming US citizenry needs to know now is how to be a good worker drone. Asking questions & bucking authority does not fit that mold. That's why community and technical colleges are getting shitloads of money, and 4-year universities are priced out of existence for most kids.

Who wants another generation of pointy-headed liberals, anyway? ;-)
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
57. Oh hell yeah! Big time!!! As Broad rakes up more cash to
"educate" these superintendents on how to pull off this scam!
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
71. and you're a lawyer? god help whoever it is you represent...
:rofl:
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #71
98. Pray tell...what is it about what DefenseLawyer says
that you find so funny? I'm an educator and I already see this happening.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #71
100.  The perfect example of the broken system.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #71
106. A little food for thought
Not from a lawyer, but from a teacher- national teacher of the year, no less. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7559944

Keep laughing.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
89. It's already happening.
There are masters degrees in online and distant learning. I might add it to my doctorate.

In some ways it is the wave of the future - content delivered by experts in virtual reality environments. Imagine a chemistry class where you can actually see what happens to your avatar when you mix certain chemicals. Or see what changing a variable in a physics experiement does without all the set up.

But it will only be valuable in context with concerned and involved classroom teachers, only if it is a reasonable adjunct to good teachers (who are, after all, the number one predictor of a students success).

Having said that, if education becomes privatized in the US, then that will be the last nail in the coffin, IMHO.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hope our children will, my dear Atticus...
I am too old now, for it to happen in my lifetime...

There was so much promise...

Maybe it was just a dream...

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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I'm about your age Peggy
maybe a bit older, and I'm continually confronted with things I never thought I'd live to see. I didn't think I'd live to see the consequences of anthropocentric climate change. Or how about imbeciles parading around the local market with pistols on their hips like Gene Autry? We live in strange time, dear lady. Strange times indeed.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. i'm 68. been a democrat my entire life. my grandfather
was president of a democratic club for as long as i can remember. the party has changed.

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
96. I am almost that age. I havent been a Democrat all my life. Took me longer to figure it out.
But Nixon did it, and I even voted for the bastard. My father and grandfather were GOOD republicans, when there were such things. But now I am growing disenchanted with the Rahmbo Party. Seems they favor corporations over people.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. The truth is - politicians will tell you what you want to hear, then do something else
Been that way a long time.

How long were pubs in power and abortion is still legal? But they told their followers they were against it. People voted them in on that issue, and it never even got to a vote on the floor....they told them what they wanted to hear, just like our side does, and people eat it up.

We believe, time and again, that what people say during a campaign is what they really believe.

No wonder I am a registered independent :)
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. +1 You speak the truth
.....and what you said IS the "Straight Story".
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
60. For the first time in my life I'm seriously leaning that way!! n/t
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SutaUvaca Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. I will adopt your creed.
"I will choose what is right over what comes easily. I will choose integrity over popularity."
Thank you, Atticus.
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humpty dumpty Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Do ANY of our representatives have integrity?
Do ANY of our representatives have integrity?

It is very discouraging to read one thing -- only to click over to the You-Tube video and hear with my own ears something COMPLETELY different.

I don't EVEN trust our news medium. And if THEY are lying, then we are doomed, because have to rely on someone for the truth.

Personally, I believe the You-Tube videos more than anything else.
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Welcome to DU. nt
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M155Y_A1CH Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. “Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.”
B. Franklin

:hi:
Welcome, humpty dumpty!
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
44. Welcome. I feel I need to consult several sources and then try to decide
making the assumption that most of these people are doing corporations' biddings. Follow the money and there is the truth, or some version of it. And if you remember the media is corporate too, you know they will lie to protect their advertisers.

I do believe Grayson has integrity. And Kucinich. And to a large degree Bernie Sanders in the Senate. I'm not too thrilled about any of the rest of them.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. Has Grayson given a reason why he voted yes on the Patriot Act extension?
I pledged $50 to him a few weeks ago & got the pledge in the mail a few days ago. I've waited until payday to send what I pledged, but then I read about his 'Yea' vote on this reprehensible piece of legislation & I'm left wondering what the fuck?

Yeas, nays & the sneaky way the extension was added to the Medicare reform bill:

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2010/02/25/patriot-act-without-reforms-passes-house-roll-call-included/

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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. You know, I really don't. At some point, they all do stupid crap I don't like
Most of the time, he seems to vote for us and at least tries to call attention to the hypocrisy of the right. Sigh...If we ran for office, we'd never get elected by the corporations.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #44
91. Integrity roll call.
Edited on Fri Mar-05-10 07:07 PM by wolfgangmo
I'll add to your list of

Grayson
Sanders
Kucinich (plus kudos for having the hottest smartest wife in politics)

and add


Franken
Ellison

Please add to the list.
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. Weiner. n/t
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
45. Welcome. I feel I need to consult several sources and then try to decide
making the assumption that most of these people are doing corporations' biddings. Follow the money and there is the truth, or some version of it. And if you remember the media is corporate too, you know they will lie to protect their advertisers.

I do believe Grayson has integrity. And Kucinich. And to a large degree Bernie Sanders in the Senate. I'm not too thrilled about any of the rest of them.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
90. Welcome to the desert of the real.
Once you break out of the matrix and stop listening to US broadcast news then you have a hope.

Fight the machines / GOP / DLC / corps / military / agribiz / pharma / AMA.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. k&r
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Believe in Imajika!
I won't lead you astray ;)

But yeah, I hear you. No politician or party is really going to speak to your every concern. That is just the way it is. These guys/gals are going to really do something you support sometimes, and then a week later cozy up to some god awful special interest and push some atrocious piece of legislation through.

Here is the thing to remember when you elect someone like Obama. Will he infuriate you 25% of the time? Yup. But what you get is a guy in office who is mostly appointing the right kinds of judges, who is mostly doing things behinds the scenes that aren't too awful, who is generally going to lean towards at least throwing a bone to the little guy, etc, etc.

When you get Republican politician, not only to you have to be ready to be outraged at them for the big things, but you gotta watch every vote, every appointment, every executive order, etc, for how your about to get screwed.

With our guys/girls in office, you should be able to enjoy at least a little piece of mind! That is about as good as it gets I'm afraid.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
63. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think we are on the road to being a third world country
A ruling and a peasant class and the ruling class keeping the peasant class deluded that the gov't cannot be a force for creating a great country.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. by design. n/t
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
92. "Revolt in 2100" - RA Heinlein
Seems the old man might have predicted this one.
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. trust YourSELF.
if YOU & Yours feel led to do something,
ck out PEACE & JUSTICE rallies in DC
& other cities, March 20th, hell's anniversary:

www.march20.org

50 cities are planning transport to DC,see
www.answercoalition.org

Don't let the bat rastards get You down..
YOU are NOT alone.

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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's Easy. Just imagine that Bush is still President .... And that
Edited on Thu Mar-04-10 10:52 PM by SlingBlade
the Republicans still hold power in Congress.
What would you be saying about right now ???

OK, Now that we have a Democrat in the W.H and a Democratic Majority in both Houses of Congress

HOW ABOUT NOW ????................

Extending the Patriot Act, Union Busting, Wall Street insiders,More War and Assassinations, More Handouts to Wall Street and Big Insurance,More Tax Cuts, More Warrantless Wiretapping,More Detention without Charges or Trials, More Whitewashing Torture and Corporate Malfeasance, More Expanded Faith-Based Initiatives, More Nuclear Power

It started just moments after the elction..."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7764365
Senators Propose Big Corporate Tax Cut
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4281652
Senate Dems look to one-year extension of key provisions in the Patriot Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4281305
'Volcker Rule' Stalls in Senate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4281134
U.S. Will Slow Iraq Pullout
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4280150
Record bonuses on Wall St
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/the-real-reason-obamas-pl_b_473924.html
Eight Democratic Senators sent a letter to EPA requesting greenhouse gases not be regulate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7779550
Pelosi: House Dems Can Support Obama Healthcare Proposal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x194319
"The Democratic Party's Deceitful Game"
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010
Why is the White House killing the public option?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7783269
Yoo is back in our faces claiming HE did Pres. Obama a favor
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7783243
No Banker Left Behind
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x520268
If Obama really wanted a public option, there would be one
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7783518
The real cost of the loss of hope
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7783543
The lack of justice is the first sign...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7783646
The White House thinks there isn't public support for the public option
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x195169
Despite Criticism Holder Has 'Utmost Confidence' In DOJ Ethics
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/holde
Sanders: Senate has the votes to pass public option via reconciliation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4283389
Ignore Medicare For All and the Public option 'at your very grave peril'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#35573472
HRW slams Obama's rights records
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4284219
We dropped the Medicare Buy-In because we "only" had 59 votes w/o Liebermann
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7801959
Obama: Compromise on health if GOP is serious
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_HEALTH_
House Democrats: Obama's support could lead to final passage of health-care bill
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4285761
Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4287047
If the Medicare cuts of 21% go through with a Democratic majority
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7813082
TYT: White House Deal w/ Hospitals Killed Public Option
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxnZfDJdv6I&feature=player_embedded
Obama Admin Defends Corporate AR Senator - Why?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x439103
Labor Unions Regroup After Being Stunned by Losses Under Obama, Democrats
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7825876
"President Obama is going to alienate every school teacher in the United States."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7828440

Yea, Reality Sucks,
Cause Bush aint President anymore and the Republicans aint in power anymore

Time to wake up sheeple, The alarm bell has been ringing for over a year.


CAll these bastards and tell them YOU WILL HOLD THEM RESPONSIBLE !
Contact the White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Call the White House
(202) 456-1111

Call, Write, Fax and E-mail your Representatives, House and Senate
http://www.contactingthecongress.org /
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
82. SlingBlade, Thanks for posting this impressive list.
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #82
113. There's a lot lot more where that came from unfortunately :(
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Stellar Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
87. The President always said we needed better teachers
during his campaign. If we have a whole school of inferior teachers and principle running our schools it's time for them to go. They need to be placed in a better environment.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
93. Good research. Thanks for putting that together.
Now...


Can you drop the entire Sheeple pejorative. It weakens your argument, insults those who may not agree with you 100% (but who do at least 80%), and is bad english to boot.

Cheers.
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
112. Nope, it stays as is.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. A lot of the time I feel exactly the same, Atticus. Seriously considering the third-party route.
Rec.
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
108. Third party will be the only way to go, bertman.
This administration, which could have been transformational, is nothing but a lame joke.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. Our children will have
a lot of work to do, this country is a mess. It's going to be hard for them. I feel so discouraged about that more than what our work has lost.
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cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. Russ Feingold, Anthony Weiner
are the only two I can think of.
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ChicagoSuz219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Feingold's too erratic for me. n/t
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. how about alan grayson?
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. Dennis Kucinich
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. Al Franken
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
62. I'm kind of done with Feingold. He refuses to make a statement about
the PO with reconciliation, even though he says he supports the PO by itself. Numerous phone calls to his office have given me the same response: that he's not sure that is the way to go. As if what they have already done was the right way. He's not as erratic as Kohl, but I'm not enamored of either of them right now.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-04-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
22. Blame whomever it was that told you there is a truth to believe in.
...it's just another concept. That should be obvious after the last decade.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. welcome to the desert of the real.
Edited on Fri Mar-05-10 12:23 AM by Hannah Bell
there's a kind of freedom there.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. "Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...
"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
25. We gather our truths in small baskets...
and sometimes we must weed the garden.
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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
28. It's basically game over for the American Dream...
I realized that after-well I don't want to go all the way there. But yea-it's obvious the game is so thoroughly rigged you can't get by on hard work at all.

I have 2 kids who I believe would be better off if we could move to Canade,Sweden or Germany. But none of them would take us without a sack of cash & some fancy finagling. Just happen to be out of sacks of cash. So hunker down & I'll just keep on pushing the boulder up the hill...
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
94. With the right qualifications you or your kids could emigrate to
New Zealand.

Hope you like mutton.
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Golden Raisin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
29. I feel very sorry for those who are
young today and (politically) am glad I'm no longer young. Like other posters I have seen things in the last few years that I never thought I would see in the U.S.A. The American "Empire", like so many before, is declining and falling in front of our eyes. Both parties have moved sharply and disturbingly to the right, the Republicans much more so. Ike would be considered unpure and "liberal" by today's Repubs. The deathgrip of corporatists, and the media propagandists on their payroll, are choking democracy and we, as a nation, are speeding out of control towards some variant of fascism.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. The Republican Party is becoming a scary party
Dwight Eisenhower wouldn't believe what's happened...

or perhaps he might.

Dwight D. Eisenhower Speech, January 17, 1961
http://www.archive.org/details/dde_1961_0117

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
80. +1, Daphne08!
Dwight D. Eisenhower tried to be a good man.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. Ike would be a liberal compared to most of our current Democrats. nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
30. In the 'Anything Else' category I strongly recommend Anne Sexton.


- - -
Her Kind


I have gone out, a possessed witch,
haunting the black air, braver at night;
dreaming evil, I have done my hitch
over the plain houses, light by light:
lonely thing, twelve-fingered, out of mind.
A woman like that is not a woman, quite.
I have been her kind.

I have found the warm caves in the woods,
filled them with skillets, carvings, shelves,
closets, silks, innumerable goods;
fixed the suppers for the worms and the elves:
whining, rearranging the disaligned.
A woman like that is misunderstood.
I have been her kind.

I have ridden in your cart, driver,
waved my nude arms at villages going by,
learning the last bright routes, survivor
where your flames still bite my thigh
and my ribs crack where your wheels wind.
A woman like that is not ashamed to die.
I have been her kind.
- - -

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. +1 I think many of us have been her kind with all its variants.
I am not afraid to die.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #56
105. Hi, ooglymoogly. Yes, and thank you
for saying such a strong, brave thing in this hard, heartless world.

Anne Sexton just blows me away. I never get tired of her words.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. Same here
I think Dean is the only one I trust and even him not %100. :-(
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
67. I trust myself completely
Unfortunately I am unelectable. And only the good die young.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
34. It is you who has changed, not the world
Edited on Fri Mar-05-10 08:31 AM by lunatica
Your understanding of it has grown. Your awareness of the truth is expanding. And you're finding your truth from within yourself. This is what all that woo-woo means. There's nothing magical about it and the angels don't sing nor do the clouds part nor is any religion involved. It's how one gains wisdom.

Thanks for sharing. I've been comparing our psychological evolution on DU to the five stages of grief only instead of grieving the death of a loved one we're grieving the loss of our country and our idealized views of it. Your Op shows you're in the last stage of grief. Acceptance of things the way they are and deciding to do what one can with what one has.

Five Stages Of Grief

1. Denial and Isolation.
At first, we tend to deny the loss has taken place, and may withdraw from our usual social contacts. This stage may last a few moments, or longer.
2. Anger.
The grieving person may then be furious at the person who inflicted the hurt (even if she's dead), or at the world, for letting it happen. He may be angry with himself for letting the event take place, even if, realistically, nothing could have stopped it.
3. Bargaining.
Now the grieving person may make bargains with God, asking, "If I do this, will you take away the loss?"
4. Depression.
The person feels numb, although anger and sadness may remain underneath.
5. Acceptance.
This is when the anger, sadness and mourning have tapered off. The person simply accepts the reality of the loss.

edited to add a sentence



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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Well said. Thanks for that.
Our values have ALWAYS been twisted in this country, but we've been brainwashed from cradle to grave into believing that they're okay in order to keep feeding the fat bastards who suck the life out of all of us.

Like Philip K. Dick said, "The empire never ended."

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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Like old man Vonnegut said:
"You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages — they haven't ended yet."
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
70. There's a reason why it's called "the American Dream".
It's not based in reality. We've all been brainwashed, and withdrawal is very painful.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. That may be true, but the "Democratic Party" has also changed:
"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."---FDR

THATS the Party I joined 44 years ago. It bears NO resemblance to the political party using that name today.
In fact, the values listed above are no longer welcome in today's "Democratic Party".
I'm looking for a new home.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
110. +1 Prescient timing. DU has been a painfully learning experience
Edited on Sat Mar-06-10 01:25 PM by ooglymoogly
for all of us. It is through DU, the Internet and boards like this, that truth and the reality of it, is appearing out of the murk like Swamp Thing in all its horror.

You are of course right, we must do what we can with the tools we have to make things the way they never were but only dreamed of....except for a few, for whom the dream is reality. It is those not willing to share that dream, gained by hook or by crook and at the expense of us all, we are fighting to the last gasp; But alas, except for a few mercurial glimmers, it has always been thus from the beginning. Truth is the light that will take us out of the dark ages we are, only now, beginning to comprehend; But not without a bloody fight.

The Fault dear Brutus lies not in the stars, but in ourselves; For ever believing we are living in a democracy.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
35. I will be right there with you,
choosing right over easy and integrity over popularity.

You're at least lucky that there are a handful you trust.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
38. K and a sad, sad R
Bad enough that we gray warriors feel that way. What we got for our work is robbing youth of their hope also.
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
72. What we got for our work is robbing youth of their hope also.
That is the saddest part of all...:cry:
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. Welcome to the realist side of the fence, Atticus.
There is some comfort in clarity, I think you will find.

If I may ask, what was it that finally brought you to this point?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
40. Caveat: from this point on your chances of being deemed a Crazy Conspiracy Theorist increases
;)
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PreacherCasey Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. And in this respect, I hope you would embrace it as a badge of honor. nt
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
41. k/r
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jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
46. Two of my three are grown.
I see them struggle with the current lack of viability and know its elusiveness will only increase. The elites see themselves as in control nine tenths of everything that is perceived as valuable and continue to avidly demonstrate their appetite to devour what little remains. Our children will only fall prey unless our own generation blazes the direction of a fresher path.

I trust you, you should too. I think we both know the tide if it can be turned the sooner we swirl, the better. We may not live to see it done, but we can sure as hell start the process of returning to a nation governed by the will of we the people so our children will know what the ingredients in the secret recipe of independence are.

Ethically centered existential reflections are axiomatically kicked.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
48. "I will choose what is right over what comes easily. I will choose integrity over popularity."
Well said, and a code for all to follow.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. You have three powers:
Your vote.
Your voice.
Your wallet.

That's all any of us truly have, so use each one with a reat deal of thought and care.

That is where real change can come from. I am at the same place you are, and am taking the opportunity to reevaluate my beliefs and goals. I have decided it is time for me to align my personal life and my politics even more closely.

Every cent I spend is, whether I want it to be or not, a political statement, so I am more conciously embracing that. From the food I eat to the clothes I buy to the political funding I do. My local thrift stores and farmers markets will be seeing much more of me, and any money going to a campaign will be stricly and directly for a progressive candidate.

As for voting, I am liberating msyelf from party identity and voting for who I think is the best choice for our country. If that is a Democrat, fantastic. If not, then I am sorry the Party couldn't have done better. I will also not allow myself to be paralyzed by the current political realities. I will continue to educate myself on the issues, politics, and candidates so I can gain an even deeper understanding of what I am facing, and how I need to respond.

As for my voice, Washington and my Congressional representatives will be hearing from me. Often. And loudly. And so will my fellow citizens -- I will take every opportunity that is presented me to educate, enlighten, and guide.

It can be awfully scary out here, in the political wilderness -- but, take heart, you'll find there's lot of us out here. :hi:
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. And your labor. That's what keeps this system running. The dirty secret is: they need us
more than we need them. You can have a world without bankers. You can't have a world without teachers, shipping clerks, and engineers. Well, you can, but not a world they could still extort money from.
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
50. "I will choose what is right over what comes easily. I will choose integrity over popularity."
New Rule: Adopt Atticus' attitude.

K&R
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
53. Whoever DLCers label as "fucking retards" - I trust
Kucinich, Franken, Weiner, and Independant Bernie Sanders - come to mind. We need to take back our party FAST or our children will inherit a 'Blade Runner' world.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #53
85. Same here
Especially Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders. These two really want what is the best for American people. I am loving Franken and Weiner as well.

K&R
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ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
65. I agree... I have been a Dem all my life and supported liberal or
progressive thinking. I no long can identify completely or even a little with most of the Democrats in office. When I look at the Green party everything they stand for I agree with. I'm tired of voting for people I just disagree with less. I could never vote a republican but I must vote my conscience.
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ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
66. sorry got posted twice
Edited on Fri Mar-05-10 02:43 PM by ThomThom
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
69. yup
Right there with you. I feel pretty lost. I know what I believe in. I just don't trust any politicians any more.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
74. I hear you loud and clear...K & R
I have taken a lot of verbal beatings over the years because I like to think for myself and look outside the box...and it is so annoying to see the same things happen again and again.

A new "Scary, fear-mongering, keep the people in terror and stress" story comes out. We are given the official version.

Then comes the same story out of the mouths of the tv pundits over and over.
As all that is going on..the P.W.W.T. (People who wont think) start blathering it about as well ...as if it was God's truth carved in stone.

Then in come the people who are honestly trying to find the truth and they get verbally stoned and ridiculed.

But all the while...painfully and slowly the truth comes out and we find...once again..it's all been a big fat ugly pack of lies to line some assholes pockets or to further the New World Order.

Then you don't hear a peep or an apology out of the P.W.W.T. that were once again..proven to not only not think for themselves, but proven to be dead wrong...again..and again and again.
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dhpgetsit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
75. Nobody has said it better than this.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
76. Personally I trust only one Senator, Sen Bernie Sanders of VT, who
Edited on Fri Mar-05-10 04:32 PM by truedelphi
is an "indie" and not even a Democrat. (Though he believes and does what a real Democrat would believe and do.)

I trust about fifty people in the Hosue of Representatives, including Lynn Woolsey, Barbara Lee (don't evenknow if she is still there or not) Maxine Waters, Kooch, and a few others.

But the average elected official in Washington is merely a spokeperson for the Upper One Percent.

I don't even hold out any trust for the First Lady.

Michelle Obama? Give me a break. While her husband says that Mike Taylor and Valsick are good for our country's food supply, despite or maybe because of the ties they have to Monsanto, Michelle is all about being organic. Ple-a-s-e Michelle, I am not that stoopid!

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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
77. There are three I trust
Howard Dean, Al Franken, and Dennis Kucinich. They seem to be the only ones who consistently fight for real Democratic ideals and principles.
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
78. Documentary: Adam Curtis: The Trap: What Ever Happened To Our Dream of Freedom
You need to watch this excellent documentary made by the BBC several years ago. The world will make more sense afterward.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
79. I know the feeling, Atticus. nt
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FunMe Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
81. Did we elect a DINO?
Edited on Fri Mar-05-10 05:32 PM by FunMe
I worked so hard to elect a Democrat as President. But Obama doesn't seem to work hard to represent many of the Democrat Party ideals.

At this rate, I don't think Obama has much of a chance of winning reelection (and it's barely ONE year after his election!)
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
83. "The dirty secret is: they need us." - readmoreoften
That is the secret the Few are trying to keep from the Many.

They fear that the Many are beginning to wake up. Thus, the growing security and police state.
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CubicleGuy Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
84. I think everything that's wrong boils down to a single thing
We, here in the USofA, have been living off of everyone else's credit card for too long now.

That worked for a long time because we were smart, and we were productive, and we were able to count on getting a collective raise, as a nation overall, every year. We could put stuff on the credit card and say, "Hey, when my raise comes in, I'll just pay it off, and then everything will be all right."

The creditors kept buying our story, because the GNP kept going up, and the future looked rosy. So, they kept lending to us.

Unfortunately, you can only get away with doing that for so long. The bills eventually come due, one way or another. The bills are now coming due, and guess what? The promised raise has evaporated. We're right where Clark Griswald finds himself when he opens up his supposed Christmas bonus and finds a subscription to the Jelly-of-the-Month Club, instead.

Worse for us, though: we have no Cousin Eddie that we can go sic on the boss in order to get our bonus back.

The backyard pool has been ordered, and there's no way to pay for it.

Welcome to America.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
86. You're not alone.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
88. Fox News.
At least you can be certain they're wrong or lying.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #88
95. In reference to your signature line, I will only be happy if Cheney, the Big Dick dies in prison. nt
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
101. Quid est veritas?
Edited on Fri Mar-05-10 09:30 PM by sulphurdunn
When I was 12 I first climbed Mt. Pilchuck in the Cascade Mts. From the summit I could gaze out over the Robe Valley. When I was 12, the Robe Valley was an expanse of unbroken old growth forest. Every few years I'd climb the mountain and look out over the valley. As the years past, logging operations ate big square patches of the valley. The last time I was on the summit of Pilchuck I was 50. The Robe Valley looked like a moth eaten old rug. The green carpet that had impressed me as a child was gone. It was depressing because I'd watched it happen and had an historical memory of it. That day there was also a young couple at the summit. They were in their late teens or early twenties. I watched them gaze out over the valley and heard the woman say, "Isn't it lovely?" What America should be is like the Robe Valley of my youth. We will not see it again. Our children will never see it. They won't even know what it was unless we stop the logging now. I only wish I knew how.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
102. I am heartsick. there are very few Democrats left in the Democratic Party and even those
are subject to debate. So far only Weiner and grayson have shown any spine . Some of my favorite progressives have allowed themselves to be derailed.I will vote for the issues, not the man. Never again. And not the party but i will never vote for the gop. however I am no longer a guaranteed Democratic vote.I belonged to the party of fdr .I want to know who hijacked it and why? An awful lot of so called Dems are sounding very GOP.
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Tashca Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
103. Welcome
The reality is some scary stuff.

I'm starting to realize the enemy isn't who I am told it is, but rather the very people who are telling me who to hate. If we stay divided we lose.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
104. Just go with what you know
Things, in general, will work out. Be positive.

Don't let the negativity drag you down.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #104
111. I know Obama and the Dems have let us down at every turn
Despite the words they said.

Easy to be positive if you have a job, live indoors, and eat food. Get ready for that "don't worry be happy" chicken to come home to roost.
Obama and the Dems are better than the fascists who usurped power. Agreed. But corporatist-light is just tearing the phone book in half 1 page at a time. Same result, less grimacing and sweat.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. There are few people with no home, no food.
Very, very few. They could get food stamps even under the Bush Administration.

How could you expect a particular President to get this country (this country, full of right wing idiots) in one year to have no homeless left?

Yet the stimulus did a lot of good.

That's letting negativity get to you. Not appreciating any progress at all.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
107. Believe your eyes. n/t
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
109. God Help Me, Atticus: I Feel Exactly The Same Way.

And you nailed it: It's not myself I feel sorry for; hell, I'm getting old and worn out. No, it's my kids and their kids I want to cry for. They're the ones who are going to have to deal with the unprecedented squandering of positive political influence that we're currently living through.
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