Veil of secrecy covers Toyota cars’ ‘black boxes’

[DainBramaged]

Has frequently refused to provide key information sought by crash victims and survivors.
Uses proprietary software in its EDRs. Until this week, there was only a single laptop in the U.S. containing the software needed to read the data following a crash.
In some lawsuits, when pressed to provide recorder information Toyota either settled or provided printouts with the key columns blank.
Toyota's "black box" information is emerging as a critical legal issue amid the recall of 8 million vehicles by the world's largest automaker. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration said this week that 52 people have died in crashes linked to accelerator problems, triggering an avalanche of lawsuits.

When Toyota was asked by the AP to explain what exactly its recorders do collect, a company statement said Thursday that the devices record data from five seconds before until two seconds after an air bag is deployed in a crash.

The statement said information is captured about vehicle speed, the accelerator's angle, gear shift position, whether the seat belt was used and the angle of the driver's seat.

There was no initial mention of brakes — a key point in the sudden acceleration problem. When AP went back to Toyota to ask specifically about brake information, Toyota responded that its EDRs do, in fact, record "data on the brake's position and the antilock brake system."



Toyota recall timeline
Toyota is facing the biggest recalls in its history after uncovering widespread problems with several aspects of its vehicles.

But that does not square with information obtained by attorneys in a deadly crash last year in Southlake, Texas, and in a 2004 accident in Indiana that killed an elderly woman.

One attorney in the Texas case contends in court documents that the Toyota may have deliberately stopped allowing its EDRs to collect critical information so the Japanese automaker would not be forced to reveal it in court cases.

"This goes directly to defendants' notice of the problem and willingness to cover up the problem," said E. Todd Tracy, who had been suing automakers for 20 years.




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35713831/ns/business-autos/


Yup, all you folks defending these bastards..........they KNOW what the problems are, THEY KNOW. And they refuse to allow ANYONE see the data. GM Routinely allows investigators to read the data on their boxes.

I wish I could shake these bastards by the throat to make them realize ONE HUMAN LIFE is worth more than the yen they covet.

[DainBramaged]

1. On GM's openess...from the same article

General Motors, for example, has licensed the auto parts maker Bosch to produce a device capable of downloading EDR data directly to a laptop computer, either from the scene of an accident or later. The device is available to law enforcement agencies or any other third party, spokesman Alan Adler said.

[UP_4012]

3. In my opinion, they are just covering up.

There is NO FUCKING EXCUSE for the amount of electronics in these japanese shit boxes. (by that I mean what meets the academic definition of "car") Seriously, my friend's Camry has more electronics in it than ANY other car I have EVER been in. Anyone who has ever used a computer knows that software is not necessarily the most reliable thing on the planet, but yet we trust it with our lives and the lives of those around us. Give me some fucking cables that move mechanical parts that we have been using for the better part of 70 years.

[Grand Taurean]

4. As you said.

I am no fan of Japanese cars these days.

[Canuckistanian]

5. The engineering alone must cost millions

WHY would they spend so much on engineering on parts that have no practical use?

It doesn't make sense.

[LiberalFighter]

7. Blue Screen of Death

How many times do electronic devices with OS need to be rebooted because it locks up?

[DainBramaged]

9. Toyota's new campaign

[OhioChick]

2. Rec'd n/t

[roamer65]

6. GM or Ford for me from now on.

I love my 2006 Chevy Colorado.

[LiberalFighter]

8. Only 5 seconds prior to the crash?

In the crashes involved didn't the triggering event occur possibly as much as minutes before the crash?

[madokie]

10. One second would be better than nothing

5 seconds before the crash and two seconds afterward is a long time. I've been in a couple and believe you me time does slow down enormously when you see that vehicle coming at the door you're sitting on one side of. or the hood that is between it and you. In this case any is better than none.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Five Seconds Is An Eternity...

If you've been in a serious collision, it doesn't take long. The boxes can't measure the operator...such as being distracted on a cellphone or asleep, all it measures is the actions or reactions of the mechanics of the car and in a crash those details don't become appearant until the second before the crash. This information is stored on a chip...not much room for a lot of data, especially if there are more systems added to the monitoring.

[LiberalFighter]

16. I understand that. But IMO it is going to miss out on what caused the crash

in this type of situation. If the incident happens prior to 5 seconds it will not record the electronics happening at the point it occurred. At 80mph it is only 586 feet in 5 seconds. And if it happens out on the highway the driver has a bit more than 5 seconds before it crashes. How many of these Toyota crashes that occurred took 5 seconds or less before the malfunction started?

Now I can see where a chip wouldn't hold much information several years ago. But in the last few years the amount of info it can hold has greatly increased. Or at least I thought it has.

[nc4bo]

12. I wish I could find a video of Mr. Toyoda answering questions about this very thing

during the hearing.

Reading it is one thing, listening to his jive excuses is something completely different.

:mad:

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Criminal charges against the corporation

That will do it.

A paradigm shifter

[mwb970]

14. Toyota is toast.

I don't think they are going to recover from this. They had half a chance before their stunning malfeasance and horrific cheating was revealed. Now they have no chance. They will be effectively gone within 5 years.

[sendero]

15. I've felt since almost day one.

.... that "floor mats" and "sticking pedals" did not begin to explain the events that happened.

Here's my number one rule Toyota, it would serve you well "when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging".

[LiberalFighter]

17. I want to know when they stopped allowing the EDRs from collecting the data?

[HopeHoops]

18. You're damn right they know - it is the software (probably burned into hardware). Shims are cheaper

Replacing the electronics is expensive. One would think it would be cheap, but the problem is almost certainly in a core system encoded in hardware and probably sealed in epoxy in a little "module" to make reverse engineering difficult. That's an expensive fix. Giving the owner a placebo called a "shim" is a much less expensive way to handle it. I don't know how anyone can be dumb enough to believe their car was fixed by that and based on the post-shim incidents of runaway cars, obviously some are aware that it isn't a "shim", it is a "sham".