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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:38 PM
Original message
There will be more pain
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 05:49 PM by AllentownJake
To preface, if you don't like reality, please go here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49jKeGyUCJE

Logically, mathematically, spiritually there has to be. The economic Gods demand it. Our leaders, and I use that term loosely because it implies they are taking us somewhere, have refused to heed the warning that things actually do need to change. They liked the world we were living in before the first wave of the economic attack in October of 2008, I kind of liked it to, however, we aren't going back, and every action they have take is an attempt to take us to a false reality that could never have been maintained. I've begun to think of them as the band on the Titanic. Dutifully playing the same tune they were playing before the Iceberg hit, to calm all those that aren't making it into the lifeboats. They better have the honor to go down with the ship.

Where we are on March 8, 2010

The unemployment monster has stalled. It can be interpreted as good news or bad news or no news. Just because something has stopped falling really bad, doesn't mean that it is about to start moving up in an inverse course that it was falling before, nor does it mean that it that something cannot happen to make it fall again. The most troubling thing in my mind is the increase in productivity with no technological advancement. People are being paid less to do more, and there are less people doing it and the people at the top of the pyramid are collecting more as a result. Wages are deflating.

The debt to GDP ratio is skyrocketing. The only debtor left that seems to be able to wrangle creditors to give them money is the US government and other sovereigns. The only creditor lending substantial sums of money out there also appears to be the US government and other sovereigns. The private portion of our financial system, appears to be totally broken. It also appears the leaders of the private portion of our financial system are taking as much as they possibly can from the broken system before the house crashes down due to the lack of any foundation.

Most of the state and municipal governments appear to be going through some sort of budget crisis. The year over year tax collections for these governmental agencies is down 87 billion. That is a pretty big hole. 11% of tax collections before the crisis started. This is coupled with the fact that more people are demanding services due to the drastic downturn in the private sector. This is a recipe for disaster, as the people who have paid into the system for years, demand the social safety net they invested in and watch it cut. Higher taxes and cut services leads to a very, very, very not happy populace.

The banking sector is nothing more than a zombie. The repeal of Mark to Market accounting rules has left assets that should be seriously impaired on the balance sheets carrying a full pre-bubble fantasy value. There are more defaults and delinquencies coming in the future. Every default and delinquency is less liquidity. This means less lending. The less they lend, the less businesses have access to the capital they need to survive, which leads to more defaults. The viscous cycle in nowhere close to over as Commercial Real Estate loans need to be refinanced on impaired assets and the residential mortgage crisis continues to spread. This is coupled with the fact that the government is taking more and more capital out of the system with its financing of the deficit. If that debt is being monetized, inflation will invariably show up. If that ever happens, the CDS Nuclear bombs that are sitting on the sidelines will do more damage than anything ever seen financially in mankind's history.

Our immediate future

If you want to know what our future is, look to Greece and Europe. It is only a matter of time, before the markets start paying attention to our own little fiscal problem in states like California, Illinois, and New York. The markets have ADD. Some of the largest cuts are to higher education. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know, those are cuts to our future.

How did we get here? We borrowed more than we could possibly ever pay back, we consumed more than we produced, and we were apathetic to all warnings because we were comfortable. We listened to people who told us what we wanted to hear, not what was logical.


Suggestion if your feeling sad or angry watch this and pour yourself a stiff drink.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK0l2tqFDvM&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2F4EFYM_MA&feature=related







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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R...and not just for the youtube links.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
3.  I love kitties!
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. I see from the recs that fake bad news is still more popular
than REAL good news.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Back it up.
Your rhetoric that is.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Here is some back-up
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. He posted NOTHING but wishful thinking
your challenge is impossible because there is nothing of substance to dispute. It's like if I posted that a meteorite was going to wipe out the planet next year. You can't dispute it until next year comes along and I am proven wrong. By then few will remember.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I posted the world as of March 8, 2010
Care to dispute where the world is, I'm more than happy to post links that back up my assertions

:evilgrin:

Here is another one for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txq_BogA1NM&feature=fvw

Might cheer you up sport!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Surely, you jest! lol! nt
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Tinkerbelle still dies but you will never get it.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. but...but....we've been clapping really hard
and posting talking points as fast as we can!:scared:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. How did we get here?
We borrowed more than we could possibly ever pay back, we consumed more than we produced, and we were apathetic to all warnings because we were comfortable. We listened to people who told us what we wanted to hear, not what was logical.

Not quite. Our future was stolen through a massive 30-year fraud.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well
Jimmy Carter said we need to tighten our belts, Ronald Reagan said here are some credit cards and for 30 years, that is what we did.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Reagan was "Don't think about the long run, here's some credit cards"
Go on America, just tell yourself you're doing well enough times and you'll believe it.

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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Our fearless chimp stood on the carcas of WTC and exclaimed: 'Go shopping!' n/t
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Yes and our current occupant is discussing Health Insurance why the world burns. nt.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Yep-while the world burns and polar icecaps melt. nt
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. Cheney: "Reagan showed us deficits don't matter." nt
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. woop
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 10:32 AM by mdmc
there it is
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. That, too. nt
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. It will be tough for much of the muddled class.
For the poor? Business as usual pretty much.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. See the state budget line
Shit is hitting everyone under 250k a year in income.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Agree 100%, AJ. Could you expound on the coming CRE problem? Also,
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 06:25 PM by Subdivisions
"mark to market" is the key to everything. When they suspended that, it enabled banks to keep debt off their books. That debt will have to be marked to the books or defaulted eventually, correct?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Commercial loans
Are generally different than a loan for a piece of residential real estate. In a residential real estate mortgage, you pay a principle and interest.

In CRE loans you finance the whole thing. So if a property cost 1,000,000 you finance 1,000,000. Investing in property is silly if your goal is to maximize profits.

For the sake of simple discussion, I will say a piece of CRE purchased in 2005 at the price of $1,000,000.

So if in 2005 you bought a piece of property at $1,000,000 and in 2010 it is worth 800,000 you may continue to make your interest only loan till the end of 2005 when the principle is due. Now when the last principle payment is due, you have 3 options

1) Cough up $200,000 and refinance the $800,000

2) Negotiate a default and pay the $800,000 it is worth and walk away without legal wrangling

3) Stop making interest payments a few months before the bill is due, prepare for bankruptcy and say fuck you to the bank.


You do option 1 if you think the property will appreciate. You do option 2 if you have other businesses and you don't want the bank coming at those legally, You do option 3 if it cost less to close your business than it does for option 1.

These are purely logical mathematical decisions. Very little emotion involved in them, like is involved with a house.

Now when option 2 and option 3 are selected a bank now has to sell a piece of property. They aren't in the business to do that. If they don't sell it, they have expenses of taxes, insurance, and maintenance. Desperate sellers sell things at a discount.

So, a building valued at $800,000 will sell for $600,000 at auction.

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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wish I could disagree with this, but I can only support, kick and rec it
There is no question that trouble is around the corner, and it not Obama's fault. This has nothing to do with that. It is the past two decades of a global economy based on cheap lending, cheap credit, predatory lending, and a future that entails millions of more foreclosures and a commercial real estate calamity, and a half dozen European Central Bank countries defaulting on debt, and the tenuous condition of a number of "Too Big To Fail" banks in the United States as well.

No way to sugar coat this.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. We aren't going back
but you have to build something new...I think if we looked backwards to the last time this happened...there is a solution.

Paging Mr. Roosevelt, Mr. Franklin Roosevelt.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. It's been a 50 year Ponzi

both Republicans and Democrats...
'Fair Trade', offshoring jobs, toxic financial investments, and more.

It's like we've been living the biggest party ever, and it's coming to an end.
:(

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. At this point it IS Obama's fault because he is doing little to solve the problems
the MAJORITY of people in this country face.

Obama needs to quit sucking up to the rich and do something for the majority of people in this country or they will vote him the hell out in 2012. Make NO mistake!!!
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. I didn't see the response to my post upthread...my comment about the youtube links was not meant in
to be insulting -- I thought the OP was excellent and the inclusion of youtube posts hilarious.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. One would think that NOT spending a TRILLION dollars at elective wars would help a bit
Of course, when it comes to getting a piece of the pie, the Military/Industrial complex has the biggest sticks and will stay at the table long after we have starved.
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. It chilling and ...
... sobering when the truth of just how deep of a hole we are in comes crashing onto your world. Nothing less than the survival of this nation is at stake. There will be a revolution, of that there is absolutely no doubt, the only questions are:

How soon will it happen?

Are we capable having a revolution without violence?
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
27. Run for your life
Jake says the world is coming to an end. It's all Obamas fault!
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