This Is WAR

[Dinger]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/234590

Fuck you newsWEAK, thomas, wingert, duncan. Obama, this will cost you my vote if you keep this shit up. I can't speak for other educators, but something tells me I'm not the only one.

[Taverner]

1. Why is it so many "populists" go after the teachers' unions?

Ahhnnold, now Obama....

WTF?

[Ardent15]

2. Because they're not populist..nt

[MissDeeds]

22. + 100 n/t

[enlightenment]

3. Carry cell phones so students can call them?

All the time? Are they encouraged to sleep with them on in case the little darlings want to call them at 2 am? Weekends? Holidays?

That's not dedication - it's the short road to sainthood.

There is a disturbing tone to that article, for many reasons, but the one that bugs me the most is the conflation of 'dedication' and ability. Dedication is all very well and good, and should be encouraged in everyone, but in teaching, dedication is often used as a code word for 'calling' . . . and someone with a 'calling' is often assumed to be more like a cloistered nun or a self-flagellating monk than a professional doing a job.

The last section of the article admits that one of the reasons European countries can demand higher 'quality' teachers is because they can offer them both a decent wage and a level of social respect that is all but unheard of in this country. Then it turns right back around and suggests that the ONLY reason teachers in the US are not highly valued and decently paid is because there are so many bad teachers.

And to be a 'good' teacher wheels back to that 'dedication' thing, wherein the teachers should welcome the opportunity to give up a normal life in order to give more to their 'calling'.

The natural, though unwritten, conclusion is tied to that idea of 'dedication' - if you're doing it for love, you aren't doing it for money . . . so why would you want to be paid more?

[TornadoTN]

4. My wife is a teacher and she's already turned against Obama

Sad too, because I can't refute anything that she is saying. I'm just as frustrated as she is. They seem to be forgetting that it's not just the teachers that figure into the education equation and they are merely expecting teachers to be pseudo-parents more than they already are.

This is coming from two people that donated a lot of money & time in 2008 and two fiercely loyal Democrats.

[PATRICK]

6. My union(APWU)

is up for a big contract and crap like this from the WH gives management enormous backing to screw us over or offer the receptive blue dog administration the "compelling" option of total privatization. The Frankenstein, bizarre and destructive consolidation and privatization and lessening of services has only the logic of paving the way for the elimination of hundreds of thousands of good, solid union jobs and another public service meltdown for America, for private profit.

Anxiety, disgust, fury. THAT is what we are supposed to carry to the polls in November? Oh, I forgot about the token reforms and compromises that are so much better than GOP Armageddon. Are they digestible and healthy? When the administration gets its brain out of RW think tanks I will be able to peruse if it actually has one.

Well, to be fair the education attack is now a full party press against us, as per example our mayor( from my high school, below me a year) who is on track to do the public schools in along the same lies and lines as is being done in current corporate gold rush.

[TornadoTN]

12. It's sickening and truly disgusting

I have yet to hear anyone give one solid argument for this current idiotic scheme. "It's all for the children" only goes so far before it just completely loses its power. They (the current administration and other parties who are interested in seeing public education fail or done away with completely) are laying the groundwork for a complete downfall of the education system. They are painting teachers in such a negative light and making it seem like all of them are doing absoloutely nothing and getting paid handsomely to do it.

As if the other things that are going on aren't enough, we now have this to contend with. I really have to wonder why the hell we voted in 2008 because this is certainly not what I voted for, in fact, this is what I would have expected from a McCain/Palin regime.

[PATRICK]

38. We survived under Reagan/Bush and Bush II

Even Nixon grudgingly dealt with the unions. Only your top friends can subvert the natural ground support nationwide from Congress and from Obama's comments on change regarding unionism and liberalism the floodgates against a public service, strong union USPS is under a cloud.

Some things don't change. This is big trouble for Congressman who finally submit to local office closings and privatization and anti-union policies unless payoffs from corporations benefiting from privatization are so much sweeter and WH cover a nice buffer.

[Starry Messenger]

5. You speak for me.

:thumbsup:

[Dinger]

7. Thank You

:loveya:

[maryf]

8. Thanks

And you are not alone!!:grouphug: K&R

[Dinger]

9. You're Welcome

Back at ya!:)

[Hissyspit]

10. It's always the worker's fault.

:sarcasm:

[Strathos]

11. So, let me gets this straight

You don't think bad teachers should be fired? If any other employee isn't doing their job, they get fired. What's the difference?

[Dinger]

13. You Don't Have It Straight At All

And your interpretation of this thread is incorrect.

[Fire1]

36. What you said. n/t

[TornadoTN]

14. Then get rid of the bad teachers, not cut them all down in one fell swoop

You end up cutting the throats of the many good, outstanding teachers out there in the process. How about funding programs that will put more tools in the hands of teachers and ensuring that each and every students gets a top-notch education?

This is a not-so-cleverly designed ploy to completely undermine the education system, set it up for failure, and usher in for-profit education and charter schools.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. If Math scores are down why fire the English teachers?

[EFerrari]

16. What bad teachers? This isn't about bad teachers.

This is about greedy mofos in and out of our government that want to turn us into Haiti.

[MissDeeds]

23. Wall Street is the difference

By your own standards, shouldn't they be fired? :eyes:

[Imajika]

17. Article seems prefectly reasonable to me...

Bad teachers should be fired. If a person can't do their job properly, they should find something else to do for a paycheck. This is especially true when it comes to jobs that have anything to do with educating our kids.

"In New York City in 2008, three out of 30,000 tenured teachers were dismissed for cause. The statistics are just as eye-popping in other cities. The percentage of teachers dismissed for poor performance in Chicago between 2005 and 2008 (the most recent figures available) was 0.1 percent. In Akron, Ohio, zero percent. In Toledo, 0.01 percent. In Denver, zero percent. In no other socially significant profession are the workers so insulated from accountability."

This pretty much says it all. This is about bringing some accountability to failing school systems. Bad educators need to get out of the way and be replaced by those that can get the job done. In the age of shrinking state and local budgets, public education teachers and administrators are going to have to face the same reality everyone else in the private sector is dealing with - higher expectations, pay based on merit rather than seniority, lower budgets yet higher goals, etc.

[Catshrink]

26. Magical thinking.

Just how many bad teachers do you think there are? Not as many as you think. Education is very complex and student achievement depends on student motivation, ability, parential involvement, economic conditions (did the kid eat last night?), family circumstances (did the kid get a good night's sleep or were the parents throwing a big party around the water pipe?), and the teacher. Those who have never taught do no conception of the complexity of the job and all of the factors affecting student performance. Yeah, go ahead and say "well in business you have goals, blah blah blah." That's right, you do. You also have a lot more control over the circumstances. Kids are not cogs. Those who have never taught do not understand this.

If I could go into my students' parents' homes and demand that they turn off the tv, cut off the kid's cell phone service, insist that homework get done, the kid get to bed at a reasonable hour, the kid eat a balanced diet not one full of sugar and caffeine, I might take the "reality" you speak of seriously. But the only people who spew that crap are those without a clue about the job. Armchair teachers are a dime a dozen, especially on DU.

[Cid_B]

31. I saw a chart once...

listing the process that one would go through to fire a teacher in a fully unionized area. It wasn't pretty.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Reagan had "welfare queen's" and PATCO.. Obama has "low performing teachers" and the NEA and AFT.

From the Newsweek article:

The teachers' unions—the National Education Association (3.2 million members) and the American Federation of Teachers (1.4 million members) are major players in the Democratic Party at the national and local levels. So it is extremely significant—a sign of the changing times—that the Obama administration has taken them on. Education Secretary Arne Duncan is dangling money as an incentive for state legislatures to weaken the grip of the teachers' unions. To compete for $4.3 billion in federal aid under the Race to the Top program, states get extra points for getting rid of caps on the number of charter schools (a union favorite, since charter schools are often nonunion) and allowing student scores to be used in teacher evaluations. Measuring teacher performance based in part on the test scores of their pupils would seem to be a no-brainer. New Orleans uses student scores to measure teacher effectiveness. But it's prohibited by law for tenure decisions in states like New York, where the teachers' union has long been powerful.

[berni_mccoy]

19. That's funny, Obama isn't even mentioned in the article.

Then again, any kind of a reach for an excuse to attack Obama is your modus operandi.

[EFerrari]

20. This is union busting encouraged by the Obama White House, period. n/t

[berni_mccoy]

21. Bull-fucking-shit. Calling Obama a Union-buster is simply using a RW attack on him.

[Starry Messenger]

24. Sure.

The Republicans just lurve unions.

[ipaint]

27. Busting unions is something the right wing would applaud.

Hence their stunned silence as they watch Obama do something they'd get holy hell for attempting. Now the wholesale freidman/chicago school/chile attack on public education with the billionaires waiting in the wings to privatize the system is beyond anything the right wing would attempt or even dream they could accomplish.

[EFerrari]

29. What euphemism are you using?

[Dinger]

35. Oh That's Rich

:crazy:

[Dinger]

37. Does The Truth Hurt? (nt)

[MissDeeds]

25. Of course it is

He's no friend of labor.

[Catshrink]

28. Who does Arne Duncan work for?

Do you think he'd get away with these obscene "deformations" without Obama's approval? If you do, you are hopelessly naive. I am so disappointed with Obama -- I was a true believer and could not foresee this betrayal. But it's there. One day the Obama Administration will trample on something you believe in and you'll be as stunned and crushed as the teachers are. Until then, enjoy the illusion of "change agent." This isn't the one, I'm afraid.

[Dinger]

32. He's Got A Shitty Education Secretary And Policy

This isn't a goddamn reach, thank you very much.

[lonestarnot]

30. No shit! Fucking union busting bullshit!

Ray gun is smiling down, still hunting his eggs.

[Sabriel]

33. I'll go for merit and firing "bad" teachers when they beta-test it on other public employees

So if poverty levels in my district don't improve, fire the representative! And the senator, too, for that matter!

And while I'm at it, they should have to spend one lunch hour with constituents each week.

Show me another profession that consistently takes as much crap as teachers do. Can you imagine mandating that BS for other professions? I think not.

Arne Duncan was a buddy-appointment, and he's out to continue the privatization of education started until Reagan.

[Dinger]

34. Yes, You Are Exactly Correct

And thank you.