Does anybody here actually understand that Obama can't wave a

[kratos12]

magic wand and get whatever he wants through congress?

Does anybody here actually understand that the only way to get anything through this or any congress is through a series of sometimes unpalatable yet essential compromises?

Obama can't wish away the Ben Nelsons and Bart Stupaks of the world.

Obama can't command the 41 lockstep voting wingnuts in the Senate to bend to his will.

There is no mythical method by which Obama can intimidate, cajole or entice Blue dogs or Corporatists to bend to his every whim, so he is left with one recourse, compromise.

Does anyone like the fact that the only path through either house is compromise? No. But it seems like a hell of a lot of progressives can't seem to grasp that the only path through to passing any bill is in fact compromise.

It is not only the only way now, it's always been that way.

So get a freakin grip people, blaming Obama for not hanging the entirety of HCR on single payer when single payer would never have ever gotten out of commitee (would never have been introduced in fact) is like blaming Easter bunny for not bringing you a Christmas present.

Now flame away, but please before you do at least contemplate the circular firing squad that has been concocted by the false pretext that Obama could have pushed ANY specific HCR proposal that included SP or PO through congress and admit that it would never have passed a commitee vote.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. He Could Have Tried

He didn't do squat to move things in the right direction - banker bonuses are in jeopardy and he'll move Heaven and Earth, but if the rest of us are fucked Obama sits on the couch and watches the tube.

And he could have not lied about thee whole thing.

And not called me "Fucking Retarded" (via Rahm, of course) for wanting Democrats to act like Democrats. That's really insulting to me and others who helped get him elected.

[jezebel]

6. Please tell me you are not actually claiming Obama called you retarded. Because if you are that IS

assinine.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Has Rahm Apologized To The People He Called "Fucking Retarded"?

Or been fired?

If not, he spoke for Obama.

[jezebel]

9. Oh boo hoo. Did he hurt your widdle feelings? nt

[MannyGoldstein]

10. You Changed The Subject.

Please stay on topic, thanks.

[jezebel]

12. I thought the topic to you was the wrongs you had been done by Obama or Rahm wasn't it? nt

[EFerrari]

14. The subtopic is Rahm's childish, offensive behavior

which you seem to have down pat.

[jezebel]

18. I don't happen to find Rahm childish or offensive. Is that still allowed here on DU? nt

[Moochy]

20. Encouraged even it seems

[EFerrari]

31. Right, I was talking about his behavior, not himself.

Why? Are your feelings being hurt? Someone just had some advice about that up thread.

[MUAD_DIB]

35. You never know. You might be the target of a hissy fit.

[EFerrari]

36. And then, what? Would you melt?

Looks like it from here. :)

[MUAD_DIB]

66. I haven't melted yet, but I'm willing to try anything once.

[EFerrari]

71. LOL. I was thinking earlier that maybe someone could just throw a big bucket of water

over D.C. You never know, it might take some bad guys out.

[JVS]

16. Insulting your supporters is brilliant chess!

[Bluebear]

48. Do you like pulling wings off of flies too?

[AllentownJake]

56. I feel cheated

He could have been at least naked when he did...why does Massa get all the respect.

[gleaner]

75. I simply adore empathetic, caring people ..

who care so much for other people's feelings, including those who are disabled or associated with someone who is. This is the person with MS who frequently gets called "retarded" because people confuse what I have with other medical conditions they are more familiar with.

My feelings aren't hurt, but how would you know if they were? You don't have any feelings to start with. You might work on some maturity while you're at it. And one liners do not make you a brain trust. Cheap shots are just that. Cheap.

[Bluebear]

89. 'You don't have any feelings to start with.' +1

[kratos12]

21. Right wing meme

To even characterize what Emmanuel said in this manner means you are either a troll or you have bought what they have trolled hook line and sinker.

Emmanuel called the idea of running ads against guys like Nelson attacking him from the left as "retarded" it was his assesment from a tactical standpoint, to take it as meaning that he was calling anybody retarded is simplistic.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kratos12]

37. Another right wing meme

I ain't calling you a troll but you are falling for a common right wing method of attack and obfuscation, concentrating on what Rahm said in response to what he thought was a bad idea and translating that into an attack on the Admin at large and Obama specifically.

Wingnuts do this shit all the time, taking one statement or position and extrapolating that one thing into a justification for attacking the whole administration.

Again I ask, what end will this circular firing squad bring us other than a return to Republican majorities?

[EFerrari]

49. LOL Not only do you slide on Rahm's behavior but you duck your own.

Whatever. With friends like these.

[goclark]

64. Welcome to DU ~

Thanks for your ability to respond to others.

[KonaKane]

63. Is Rahm Obama?

Last I checked, they were different people.

[MannyGoldstein]

80. If One Of My Reports Called A Customer "Fucking Retarded"

and they did not apologize nor were fired, what should the customer think about me?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. He shouldn't have to. He's dead right.

And if you took personal offense at it, maybe you should be the one apologizing.

[laughingliberal]

7. +1000 nt

[cliffordu]

26. OFFS.

Get over it, manny. You sound like someone getting paid by the whine.

[Kahuna]

77. How do you know he didn't? Because dana milbank and mike allen said so.

Fool, you for believing those hacks. They want to see the president fail.

[humpty dumpty]

2. Masterful manipulations

Some Presidents are more gifted than others, when it comes to manipulating Congress. Lyndon Johnson is a good example. Obama doesn't seem to be able to do much, except increase the people's expectations by giving good speeches.

[kratos12]

17. Wow, such insight

The only thing that ever matters is what one CAN MAKE happen, not what one WANTS to happen.

Obama could have screamed Single Payer or bust till his head exploded and you know where HCR would be now?

Perpetually stuck in commitee.

There were never the votes for SP despite what we wanted, that is a fact. Obama, FDR, LBJ, or even Genghis Kahn wouldn't be able to force enough Senators to ever allow it to reach the floor if it ever got out of commitee. Additionally, look at how close it was in the house to pass that watered down weak arsed PO bill. A Single payer would have died in the House as well.

So as we here on DU feel all superior about our SP and PO credentials and bash Obama for not have adopting a strategy that would have KILLED any chance at ANY reform we can take solace in the fact that we are collectively acting to weaken Democratic chances in the next two elections.

I'm sure our recently deposed Republican overlords will see the errors of their ways and establish a SP system immediately upon regaining power.

[Maru Kitteh]

29. Gee Humpty Dumpty. Why not share with us what YOU would like to see Obama get done

Just curious.

[kratos12]

34. Sure thing

A. Get the Senate bill passed by the house.

B. Make whatever fixes can be passed via reconciliation

C. Pass it and sign it

D. Move on to jobs, climate change, etc..


failure to pass this bill will doom any hope for progressive legislation of any kind and pretty much ensure a rapid return to power by the right wing.

So instead of complaining about how Obama and the Dems aren';t going far enough we will return to complaining about the Rs going too far....................again.

[Maru Kitteh]

39. Thanks, sounds good to me, but I was asking the guy above you.

Humpty Dumpty.

[humpty dumpty]

50. things that matter to me that he promised

working class Americans the ability to afford med insurance
support NASA
thin the ranks of Washington’s middle management
require new laws to deny cronyism
give us fire-side chats by webcast
clean up, reform Justice Dept
report to us yearly on Energy independence
restrict/reduce lobbyists
put bills online for Americans to read, before signing
annual state of the world address on our foreign policy
increase aid to America's poor

[humpty dumpty]

40. What do I expect?

Well, for starters, he could try to keep his campaign promises -- and when he can't, I'd like to hear directly from him an explanation of why not. Is that too much to ask?

[Maru Kitteh]

42. What did he promise you that you want, that you feel is not being addressed?

[pkdu]

3. No flaming here... I agree...and I'd refer those with fire in their bellies

for a fight with Obama ..

Please direct you enthusiasm and vigor to the nearest member(s) of Congress who are against HCR.

FYI - I wish we all referred to it by its real name "Health INSURANCE Reform" ...its what it really is AND its easier to explain / "sell"

Ciao - P

[laughingliberal]

4. Well, we'll never know if Obama taking a stronger stand for a more progressive bill would have moved

any votes in the Senate because he didn't. The facts of his deals with PhRMA, the for profit hospital lobby, and AHIP have lead me to believe he did not want a good bill. He wanted this bill and he has enlisted Senators like Nelson and Lieberman to take the fall for it.

Had he fought for a better bill and failed I would be more inclined to believe he would continue to work to improve this bill if it passes. As it is, I think he got just what he wanted and once it passes, any 'fix, will be down the same memory hole the 'fixes' we were supposed to see to NAFTA went down.

BTW, 4 out of 5 committees passed bills with a public option out of their committees. 3 in the House, 1 in the Senate. Never heard the President, one time, thank any of those committees for their work. He was too busy praising the gang of six thugs who were appointed to protect his side deals with the industry.

[Mind_your_head]

5. If that ASSH*LE BUSH could push through HIS sh*t.........

I expect Obama to do BETTER!

Because OBAMA has/had the *will of the people*.....which is MUCH stronger (and long-lasting) than the *will* of the miliary-industrial complex/CIA.

There is NO genuine 'loyalty' with the MIC or the CIA....once the dollars go away, so do they.

It'll be *dicey* for awhile, but it'll WORTH IT, imo.

[AllentownJake]

11. Haven't really seen that much moral courage from the White House

I can deal with a loss, don't tell me a loss is a win.

If you can't get a public option fine, but go out and publicly fight for it.

You want something fight for it, you don't get it ok, but put up a fight at least.

Probably too much to ask from these guys.

[EFerrari]

13. Obama is responsible for his own frame.

No, he's not the wizard of Oz and there's plenty of blame to go around. But Congress didn't invite the industry to backroom meetings at the White House and he took single payer off the table.

[kratos12]

27. Single payer was never gonna get out of comittee

If you want to argue tactics fine, but the reason single payer was dead before it was ever proposed has more to do with congress than with Obama.

The votes never existed for SP, the bills that eventually passed by the skin of their teeth should be ample evidence of this.

[EFerrari]

30. You're arguing a hypothetical. We don't know because he never tried. n/t

[Mind_your_head]

33. +1

[kratos12]

38. LOL

A weak arsed PO couldn't even survive the Seante version, you think that Single Payer could have survived?

Seriously, the lack of pragmatism on this board about what the Senate is and who it's made up off is staggering.

SP was being blocked by Bauchus in his comittee and wasn't even in Ted Kennedy's bill, yet you think a SP bill would have gotten a vote?

[Raineyb]

47. And this was known at the time?

Oh right, this is being declared in hindsight. Of course if the White House had actually pushed for single payer we might have gotten a decent public option. But nothing was pushed for so we have no idea what could have passed through the Senate with some bloody effort.

[kratos12]

53. Yes it was

Don't you think that most Senator's positions on these issues aren't continuously tabulated by both the leadership and WH?

SP wasn't even in KENNEDY'S bill for christ's sake.

Bauchus blocked any consideration of it at all.

Tell us by what mechanism SP could or would have been introduced and then tell us how it gets to 60 votes? You can't because the path never existed.

But lets bash Obama and vote Nader in 12 to punish him for not being Dr. Manhattan and just imagining us up a bill.

[Raineyb]

54. No it wasn't. Obama tossed aside single payer before they even had a committee

vote. So they didn't know a damn thing. But they guaranteed that anything passed would be weak as water with their piss poor negotiations on the subject.

[EFerrari]

52. Again you duck the point. He didn't try so we don't know.

Laugh it up! And good luck with the results.

[JVS]

15. You're the first person to say that

[sendero]

19. George Fuckwad Bush..

... damn sure did it without near the party majorities.

Do YOU fucking understand that we know progressive leadership when we see it and we have seen NONE OF IT from this president?

[David Zephyr]

24. +1

Bush got everything he wanted and delivered to him on silver plates by Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt.

Bush didn't need a magic wand to get what he wanted from Congress. As dumb as I thought he was, he knew how to get what he wanted.

[tranche]

62. He pushed through War and Tax Cuts against a spinelss Democratic opposition.

it's a bit different dumbass....

[sendero]

84. No it isn't..

... Obama is the spineless one now. Fool.

[Juche]

22. Does he have to give up so easily?

When Joe Wilson shouts 'you lie' in a SoTU address, does Obama have to release a statement placating people like Wilson?

Does he have to let people slap him around so much? Does he have to support single payer and gay marriage in 2003 and 1996 respectively, then abandon them in 2008?

I realize he can't wave a magic wand. But he can show some willingness to stand up for himself and the agenda of the people who elected him. He isn't doing that.

[Individualist]

23. DLC needs to come up with some new talking points.

Those are all stale.

[asdjrocky]

25. Sorry, I thought he could.

Thanks so much for clearing that up.

[TexasObserver]

28. If your intent was to be offensive, you succeeded.

[Bluebear]

41. Welcome back to DU, whoever you are

[Binka]

70. Jesus These FuckHeads Are Tiresome n/t

[LooseWilly]

43. You make a good point. That's why I no longer pay any attention to Obama. He's obviously irrelevant.

Nancy Pelosi is my only hope...

Go Nancy. Ignore what the White House says... they're irrelevant. They have no magic wands...

Hold out for the public option and save yourselves when the midterms come... fuck the White House and the Senate.

;)

[Bluebear]

44. Well played.

[QC]

45. The best thing about this post

is that it's so highly original.

Nobody has ever said any of this before, much less said it in such a fresh and innovative way.

[kratos12]

46. Thanks

I was trying to be as original as the typical Democratic circular firing squad that forms anytime we get into power.

I bet it will also be as original as the succesful right wing resurgence to power and their susequent return to the job of dismantling our country for the benefit of those who already have the most.

Failure is hardly original and the self destruction that is occuring on this board is evidence of that.

[AllentownJake]

51. Don't worry

We'll pass some really great things once we win the White House, House, and have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, you just wait to see what we can do.

BTW, why are you pissing and moaning about an internet message board when the failure of representaives who could give a flying fuck what anyone thinks other than the people in their respective district and/or donate to them think to deal with the nations problems is more the cause than people discussing on the intertubes.

[kratos12]

57. So now Obama is to blame for your assumption

that a 60 seat majority was actually 60 seats filled with progressives?

If it isn't crystal clear to you by now the "60 seat" majority never really existed. That you feel betrayed by obama because he can't make the Blue dogs sit and roll over on command is less a function of any shortcoming on his part and more a function of your own unrealistic expectations.

[AllentownJake]

58. This bill is a distraction

There are bigger things going on right now outside the realm of health insurance. In fact, a lot of people have lost their coverage due to those other issue. More than would be covered under the first 2 years of this plan.

[kratos12]

59. OK

Like what?

[AllentownJake]

60. If I have to explain what has been going on economically since October 2008

It isn't worth it.

[kratos12]

65. Great

more apocalyptic predictions of impending doom, I get enough of that on boards where I argue with wingnuts.

Tell me, do you think the inevitable economic armageddon will be brought about faster with or without the sunsetting of the Bush tax cuts and with or without the Democrats losing congress to the pukes because we insist on pissin on each other.

[goclark]

86. +10

[EFerrari]

55. Now you're blaming DU for the failure you claim isn't happening.

Nice!

:rofl:

[goclark]

61. kratos12, welcome to DU

I appreciate your thoughts.

I agree with every word that you have spoken.

[kratos12]

67. Thanks go clark

I ain't happy about the current proposal but it's better than what we have now and it's a first step.

[Raineyb]

68. First step to what?

Every time the Democrats promise to revisit to fix something it doesn't get done. Have they fixed NAFTA yet?

Do we have universal health care that Medicare was supposed to lead up to? Fix? Yeah I'll believe that when I see it which at the rate things are going will be some time between when hell freezes over and never.

[gleaner]

69. Does it occur to you ...

that he could do more if he would make the attempt? Does it occur to you that playing with people's lives and health is cruel and immoral?

Does it occur to you to stop making excuses for Obama's failings and hold him accountable? Because he is. To quote Harry Truman again, the buck stops there and he hasn't done a thing with it.

Look around you really carefully and decide what you want to lose the least, then try to hide it, because if Obama has his way it will be up for grabs like everything else he fails to touch until he is ready to hand it to the Republicans, his great friends and co-presidents.

[goclark]

72. Great post , thanks for starting this one nt

[gleaner]

73. You're welcome n/t

[Starry Messenger]

74. Potter/Granger 2012

Bring magic wands *back* to the White House!!!11

[MadHound]

76. Well yeah, d'uh. Of course we understand real politik, probably better than you do

We understand it so well that we actually know some of the effective actions that Obama and the Dems could be, and should be taking in order to pass truly progressive legislation.

The trouble is, Obama and company don't want to take those actions, but instead are more than willing to sit back and compromise our country's future away piecemeal in order that they don't have to fight or work up a sweat.

I would be much more impressed with these folks if they would put up a fight, you know like forcing the 'Pugs to do a real live filibuster, in order that they can use it to beat them about the head and shoulder with their obstructionism.

But no, they throw up their hands and say they can't do anything, and compromise away an already weak bill.

Yeah, we understand perfectly what they can and cannot do. And frankly, they're not doing shit.

Any other condescending questions?

[democracy1st]

79. "Yes We Can" turned into "No We Can't"

[ima_sinnic]

78. how many times do we have to hear this lecture that poor widdle Obama is helpless

in the face of big bad congress?

so he knew there was no use even in trying, right?
that explains why single payer was treated like a dirty word from the get-go?
why "everybody" having "a seat at the table" was a made-up thing that he knew would just win public approval but nothing else, and was not worth fighting for when he handed health care "reform" to Max Baucus and said nothing when Baucus had drs and nurses arrested for trying to get their "seat at the table"?
why he said zip all summer when the teabaggers distorted the idea of single payer--or its bastardization to a "public option"--to "socialized medicine," thereby forever tainting the "public option" as something foul-smelling and to be avoided at all costs?

if Obama had even TRIED to explain single payer, and how it would work, and how it would give us a superior system at much lower cost, the pressure from the public would have been so great, Congress would have had no choice but to pass it.

He got the bill he wanted, which well rewards his pharma and medical sponsors and palm-greasers, so don't give us this CRAP about how weak and helpless the president of the goddamn United States of America is in the face of a few assholes in Congress. He didn't even fucking TRY to push back the insurance companies, just as there is still no regulation of the banks and fucking greedheads on Wall Street who are rolling in bonuses paid by our hard-earned tax dollars.

unrecommended as yet another bucket of SHIT, ad infinitum, the daily bucket of SHIT sponsored by the DLC message disciples, who go out of their way to make it appear that a few "obstructionists" are to blame when in fact they are quite pleased with the very profitable outcome of things.

[KG]

81. +++

[Vinca]

82. Obama has been more concerned about bipartisanship than

what the people actually want. Even yesterday, during his healthcare speech, he didn't acknowledge the large number of people who cheered when he referenced a public healthcare plan. Early on there was a serious majority of people ready to work on his agenda and get it passed and they were put by the curb. Single payer became a dirty, unmentionable term. Public option was dangled to keep us interested. A slight bump when Medicare for all was proposed. Then another letdown. At a point it became apparent that sitting in a circle and singing kumbayah with the Great Orange One was more important than enacting anything Democrats might have worked for in the last election. And . . . yes . . . I'm pissed off.

[muffin1]

83. Where, oh where, have I heard the 'Magic Wand' meme before?

Oh yeah...

http://www.dubyaspeak.com/repeatoffender/magicwand

Nobody was expecting a 'magic wand' remedy then, and nobody is expecting it now. I think most of us here are actually very patient, in fact. It would just be nice to see Obama TRYING and FIGHTING for us. Just moving in the right direction would be enough for a lot of us 'fucking retards'.

Single payer, which should have been the starting point of the negotiations, was taken OFF THE TABLE. Starting with the public option left us nowhere to go, and his support for it has been tepid at best. We bend over for Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman, while brushing aside progressive ideas like those espoused by the great Bernie Sanders.

This is not the only area where I feel Obama is letting down his base. His continuation of some bush policies, escalating the war in Afghanistan, and his abominable treatment of the GLBT community have left this supporter angry and depressed beyond measure.

[Bluebear]

88. zactly

[LWolf]

85. Plenty of us understand that Obama doesn't want the right things.

Based on his appointments and the policies he chooses to follow and support.