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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:04 PM
Original message
"Kucinich's Health Reform Dissents Merit Consideration" / The NATION
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 01:37 PM by KoKo
Kucinich's Health Reform Dissents Merit Consideration
posted by John Nichols on 03/08/2010 @ 10:52pm


Long before Barack Obama or Nancy Pelosi began talking up health care reform as a top priority for the Democratic Party, Congress and America, Dennis Kucinich was doing so. Indeed, the former Cleveland mayor, Ohio legislator, two-time presidential candidate and now senior U.S. House members has across the past 35 years been one of the country's steadiest proponents of real reform of our broken health-care system.

So Kucinich's questioning of the reform legislation being advanced by President Obama and House Speaker Pelosi is neither casual nor uninformed.

The congressman from Ohio knows the intricacies of the health-care debate as well as any key player in Washington. And he objects to the compromises contained in the measure the president and the speaker are whipping House Democrats to support. "This bill doesn't change the fact that the insurance companies are going to keep socking it from the consumers," says Kucinich, who argues that, "The insurance companies are the problem and they are getting a bailout."


This is not a new complaint from Kucinich. Nor is it an unfounded concern.

Last fall, when the House was debating a better bill than the one Obama and Pelosi are now pushing, Kucinich raised objections that for the most part remain valid.

Reviewing the details of what would become the House version of reform legislation, he asked on the House floor: "Is this the best we can do? Forcing people to buy private health insurance, guaranteeing at least $50 billion in new business for the insurance companies?

Kucinich continued:

Is this the best we can do? Government negotiates rates which will drive up insurance costs, but the government won't negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies which will drive up pharmaceutical costs...

Is this the best we can do? Eliminating the state single payer option, while forcing most people to buy private insurance.

If this is the best we can do? Then our best isn't good enough and we have to ask some hard questions about our political system: such as Health Care or Insurance Care? Government of the people or a government of the corporations.


Kucinich voted against the House bill, along with another passionate advocate for real reform, New York Congressman Eric Massa. Massa has resigned from the House, claiming that he was targeted by a White House that "(came) after me to get rid of me because my vote is the deciding vote in the health care bill." That leaves Kucinich in a lonely position. He's a progressive who favors fundamental reform, but he is not satisfied with the legislation as it now stands. As such, he finds himself targeted by an aggressive pressure campaign by White House aides and House Democratic whips.

But Kucinich's objections are sincere. And Obama and Pelosi would be wise to listen to them -- rather than simply try and "whip" the congressman to vote for legislation that can still be improved.

In particular, Kucinich has demanded that barriers to states developing single-payer "Medicare for All" programs be removed. Kucinich wants Congress to waive existing federal restrictions and to address federal laws that might be interpreted as supporting insurance company suits against states that provide more extensive coverage than is currently proposed by the president.

White House strategists and congressional leaders should know that Kucinich is not an outlier on this issue. The congressman has gained strong support for his practical proposals regarding state-based experimentation with "Medicare for All" initiatives -- on key House committees, among members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and from real-reform backers such as the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee, Progressive Democrats of America and Physicians for a National Healthcare Program.

This is not to say that Kucinich's approach is the right or wrong one. The point is that Obama, Pelosi and their lieutenants need to recognize that the congressman's dissents are based on principle. He is not seeking some sort of "Cornhusker kickback" or "Louisiana Purchase" deal. Rather, Kucinich is seeking to make what he sees as a flawed bill better.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/538787/print
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. countdown to the Kucinich bashers in 5-4-3-2-1
:popcorn:
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. here before you got to one
allow me to save the rest of them time: ufo, moonbeam, he once changed a position on an issue, just like Boehner and he does not deserve his wife
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Democratic Strategist says it best
The biggest disappointment has to be Dennis Kucinich, who could conceivably become the Republicans' favorite Democrat as a result of his purist position favoring a strong public option or single-payer reform.

http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Meanwhile we better accommodate forced birther Stupak's purism.
He's threatening to kill the bill too but that's okay with you, I guess.
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Stupak brings more people with him; Dennis not.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. as they say on wikipedia,
citation needed.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. IOW, we better accommodate Stupak's panty sniffing fetish.
Meanwhile, if the bill fails it will be entirely Dennis Kucinich's fault.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
30.  Trading away women's rights tends to do that , but heck, all is okay
as long as the PTB get what they need.:sarcasm: "Trust me" They'll fix it later.:sarcasm: :rofl:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
48. Proof?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
51. How do you figure that?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
57. So, bringing a contingent of assholes along with him is a good thing?
Are we through the looking glass now?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
56. Way Okay, it would appear. Are we really surprised by that? nt
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
67. Funny how Stupak is so much less a "concern" in some quarters, isn't it?
Edited on Wed Mar-10-10 09:18 AM by freddie mertz
But then, I remember the barrage of posts in defense of Stupak's amendment in the wake of its middle-of-the-night passage.

As I recall, that came from pretty much the same coordinates.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Yes, the Nation is such a GOP friendly source, and DS is a centerist
DLC minion. But whatever turns your crank. Let the bashing begin. I am sure you have nothing of substance to say about the article itself.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Using labels is much easier than critical thought
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 01:15 PM by NJmaverick
not that it results in the best outcomes though.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Critical thought is not something a certain group are familiar with. That is why they must be
reminded that Tinkerbelle still dies no matter how much you clap. I am not a Dennis fan but the nation does a very good job of presenting his ideas and they are well worth considering and a "critical" mind would not dismiss them out of hand.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. Your claim is lacking in intellectual honesty. Just because people don't agree with your position
does not mean they have not thought it through or even that you are correct. The labels you used to prop up your position will not subject your position to the sort of intellectual rigor that produces optimum outcomes. The same can be said of the idea of being a fan or not a fan of people or magazines. The truth is not discovered in this manner.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #34
58. Not people. You.
NGU.

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
59. +1000 nt
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
73. +10,000!!!!!!! eom
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. pot meet kettle n/t
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. this also doesn't require much in the way of effort
and produces even worse results
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
74. It doesn't take a lot of effort to point out your hypocrisy. It's not needed
your piss poor excuses for arguments in your often abusive posts speak for themselves. And as you seem to have diarrhea of the keyboard there seems to be plenty to choose from.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
72. and when have "YOU" USED CRITICAL THOUGHT? excuse me while i hold my sides..
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Kucinich is just one person, who I may not always agree with, has always been honest
which is more than I can say for a lot of the wavering Democrats in Congress looking for which way the wind is blowing

Lincoln, both Nelson's, bayh, have never been consistent on where they stood on HCR

In fact what they should do is Medicare for all, an up or down vote through reconciliation

The program is already in place

It won't happen though, because we want a bill that backloads things like pre-existing conditions for adults until after 2012

No wonder the HCR is having problems, they were as vague as possible, and when something was produced I hear very few Democrats who are voting for it particularly enthused

That isn't Kucinich's fault, that is a leadership problem

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. LOL.
WOW. Dennis speaks FOR the American People.

* Would you favor or oppose the national government offering everyone the choice of a government administered health insurance plan — something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get — that would compete with private health insurance plans?

Favor 82%

Oppose 14%

Not Sure 4%
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010010320/poll-shouts-message-massachusetts-voters-were-sending

Imagine THAT.
The guy that speaks FOR the American People getting bashed on DU for representing the American People.
LOL.
Waaay down the Rabbit Hole.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. That's the same claim the Republican are trying to make
neither is correct though.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. I'll make it again:
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 02:10 PM by bvar22
* Would you favor or oppose the national government offering everyone the choice of a government administered health insurance plan — something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get — that would compete with private health insurance plans?

Favor 82%

Oppose 14%

Not Sure 4%
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010010320/poll-shouts-message-massachusetts-voters-were-sending


It IS beyond dispute.
The overwhelming MAJORITY of Americans SUPPORT a "Public Option like Medicare" (Publicly Owned, Government Administered) available to anyone who wants it.

Dennis does IN FACT stand with the MAJORITY of Americans.
No mater how much smoke and dust you throw in the air, you can't HIDE or DISPUTE the FACT that
LESS than 35% of ALL Americans support Mandates without a (real) Public Option!.

Good Luck selling this shit in 2010.
But, of course, if the Health Insurance Industry and their Winged Monkeys get their way, it will be too late by then.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #37
61. Your claim is lacking in intellectual honesty. Just because people don't agree with your position...
...does not mean they have not thought it through or even that you are correct. The labels you used to prop up your position will not subject your position to the sort of intellectual rigor that produces optimum outcomes. The same can be said of the idea of being a fan or not a fan of people or magazines. The truth is not discovered in this manner.

NGU.

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #37
62. The Republicans are claiming 82% want a public option? How long did I sleep?
Is this Rip Van Winkle moment?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. ROFLMAO...


NGU.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. If you mean they say it best for the appeasers and compromisers
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 01:57 PM by sabrina 1
and betrayers of the public trust, I agree.

We could get a better health care bill, rather than the Romneycare Bill being pushed by this WH for some inconceivable reason, which ironically many people now supporting this humongous version of it once were vehemently opposed to, if people who call themselves Democrats were as sincere and courageous as Kucinich.

If this bill passes, and we get a Republican Majority in November, the anger towards Democrats for handing this country back to them will be fierce and many will change their affiliation. No point in sticking with a party that once in power, calls its base 'retards' and refuses to listen to them on an issue as important as this.

What I have noticed though, and maybe it's a glimmer of hope, is that Kucinich is finally being recognized and gaining support.

The attempt to demean an honest Congressman by claiming he will be the Republican's favorite Dem. is so low as to not be worthy of attention. It is a sign of desperation from another source willing to betray the people just to protect the 'party'.

Since when do democrats worry about what Republicans think? Are they not in the minority? This article so clearly demonstrates the weakness of the Democrats. It confirms the observations made so often, that Democrats worry more about what Republicans, even when they are defeated, think of them.

It is an attempt to take the focus OFF the issue and encourage the usual knee-jerk reactions from the usual suspects. But it won't work, not in the long term, because this bill if it passes, is likely to keep Democrats out of power for a long time to come.

Anyone who wants to know how 'good' or 'bad' it is, should look at Mass and be prepared for their premiums to start going up as soon as it passes.

We need many more Kucinich's before this country can be restored to semblance of a democracy. Go Dennis!!

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow. the unreccers got to it. NO dissent is tolerated.This is good article
and is is really scary how Bushie like some have become. They unrc everything that isn't lockstep. It is really sad. thios used to be a forum for real debate .
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. You're a fast reader, to have read the article and complained about unrecs in less than 5 minutes.
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 01:15 PM by gkhouston
btw, by the time I saw the OP a few minutes ago, it already had enough votes to be on the Greatest Page.

on edit: it is a good article.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. it isn't a long article and yes,I am a fast reader. My husband complains about it.
I read a book a day. I carry one with me every where. If it isn't fiction it takes me two days. Clinton's book took a week! LOL!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
63. I have that same thing! I knew I liked you! nt
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Enthusiastic K&R.
Thanks!
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. And yet another k/r for DK today!
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. KUCINICH VOTED AGAINST THE BILL **WITH** THE PUBLIC OPTION
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh stop with the deception. Kucinich supports the single payer option.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. You should take your own advice. Kucinich did in fact vote against the public option n/t
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. That was likely because of Stupak being contained in it.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Then his judgement is suspect, opposing the adequate because it's not perfect or good is unwise
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Read the article. The nation doesn't seem to agree. Just because you may not like
Kucinich doesn't mean his ideas about this aren't worth considering.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. No.
Dennis voted for that pathetically weak House bill that contained something that the "Centrists" were calling a "Public Option".
It wasn't Public, and not much of an option.
By the time the "Centrists" got through chaining anchors to the so-called Public Option, it was going to cost MORE than plans offered by the For Profits.

That was a good vote,
and I STAND with Dennis for his refusal to bow down to extortion from the Health Insurance Cartels.
We need 500 more like Dennis!


”Unlike the other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.”
---Dennis Kucinich





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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
68. He voted against it because the PO was weakened beyond redemption.
He has stated MANY times, and several times THIS WEEK, that he would have been able to compromise on single-payer to vote for the bill IF it it included a strong public option plan.

Get your facts right next time.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Then why is he state the public option as a reason why he's not voting for the bill THIS time? TIA
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Because it is? Because PO is no longer in the BiIl? Because the Bill is even worse?
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 01:29 PM by saracat
Why don't you read the Nation's article, or is just bashing easier?
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. DK hypocricy is blaring and his judgement is supect...that's the easiest thing to see.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
31.  READ the article. And address the issues, stop attacking the MAN.
but I guess the capacity of some to do that is limited, if nonexistent.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
52. No matter how many times you post this, it still won't be true.
I'd just save the key strokes.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #52
66. Does that remind you of the RW tactic of repeating a lie or half truth over and over
until everyone believes it's the truth? Or, at least, til people agree to believe it so they'll shut up?
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
69. Because he supports a REAL public option.
Do you read the papers? Watch TV? Follow the links?

It is all in the public record.

He voted "no" on the House plan because the strong public option was removed from the bill, and replaced with a nothing, worthless, PO in name only.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. Where in the House bill did it guard against premium increases ...
???

He has stated continuously that is one reason he voted against the bill.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
76. It doesn't and the propagandists know damn well it doesn't!! They need a new book of talking points
it seems!!

:hi: :thumbsup:
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
75. You know damn well why he voted against the piece of shit he was asked to vote for!
Edited on Wed Mar-10-10 03:29 PM by flyarm
You know it and yet you keep posting the same crap over and over again..it was a stinking pile of horse manure!..That is why he didn't sign it..it was "NOT" a robust Public Option..it was horse shit with the stink flowing off it! That is what he refused to sign..and i would have refused to sign that crap also if given the opportunity!

I am beginning to think Dennis is the only one or one of only a few congress people with a D behind their name with any integrity! And that refuses to sell out the American people!

Now go back to your propaganda castle, and pick up a new talking point..the one you are using is worn out!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. "This is not to say that Kucinich's approach is the right or wrong one...
The point is that Obama, Pelosi and their lieutenants need to recognize that the congressman's dissents are based on principle."

Wow, that was ultra lame. What principle is that: denying people the same coverage he enjoys? Ignoring the fact that thousands of lives will be saved when this bill passes?

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Principle, hmmmm, do the Democrats in Congress even know the meaning of the word?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. They're far more knowledgable about the word "principal" - as in the amount collected from lobbyists
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
77. anyone want to wager that the lobbyists have hired people to post here?
with all the $$$$ flowing out of them to D's in congress ..it would be a winning wager..for sure!

In fact someone posted a thread here showing all the job offers to do just that and linked a bunch of job offers on Google!!

Seems some people would sell out their mom,dad, grandpa and grandmom and children for a nickle!!
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. k&r for the Honorable Dennis Kucinich. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. knr nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
42. keeping kicked..
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
43. K&R
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
44. Imagine a country so corporatist that this corporate give-away is fought tooth and nail
These hogs want to remain at the trough until it's bare. It's a failed business model, and a failed state... What I call it.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. It's a totally failed state.
There is no way you would get this horseshit bill from a functioning government working on behalf of it's citizens. Every country in the world with health care is laughing at the stupidity and selfishness of those americans who advocate putting ins. companies in the position of permanent gatekeepers to care and then have the audacity to call it reform.

Successful examples of health care abound in countries all over the world and we come up with the novel idea to put companies that profit immensely from severely rationing health care legally in charge. Ha!

Massive fail.

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. Rush doesn't know one country he can run away to for this type of care
He said if it passes he'll leave, right? So hilarious he can't find a livable country that doesn't have socialized medical care. If hilarious is an antagonym.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #50
71. That fat fuck can't run, or even trot for that matter. His tits would knock him out.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. K&R
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
47. I wonder about Dem Sites when "The Nation" supports Kucinich on
much of what he says in defending his Principles..but he is trashed constantly on this WEB SITE by posters who "claim" they are Democrats.

:shrug: It's beyond me to understand... Maybe some folks can help me out along the way to seeing where you all come from? :shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. Some people identify more with the administration than with the party platform?
Is that it?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #54
65. Looks like that's it, to me. nt
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #47
78. Lobbyist $$$ and do a google jobs search..someone posted it one day not too long ago
seems some are making money selling America and the American people out!! With talking points and pure unadulterated propaganda!

Seems to me it is "THEY" who want to see Americans die for lack of real health care!!..enough so they will take nickles to sell us all out!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. This is an excellent read about Dennis's Principles on HCR...and
I hope more DU'ers who might be checking the site late tonight will read it.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. He knocks the tepid HCR bill to shreds
He is right, all down the line. But I hope he doesn't tank it -if it comes to that. It IS criminal complicity. And to keep it the same as it is now, just makes no sense to me right now. We need to get 50 Senators to sign the public option letter.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #49
60. I agree
a must read
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
55. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
70. Here's agreeing with the Nation
And with Kucinich.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
79. Kick ..it won't let me R says it is too late. eom
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
80. Kick...
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