The Honest Debate at DU

[Robb]

...Among DUers you disagree with, do you think the majority of them express their counter-arguments in an honest fashion, or do they twist the facts to suit their agenda?

In an effort to not make this another Kucinich thread, let's make the topic "Generally agreeing/disagreeing with the current direction being taken by the Obama administration."

[leftstreet]

1. Jeez! You need to include a voter's pamphlet with that n/t

[Robb]

2. I know, I know

...I can't tell you how many times I monkeyed with it, too. :D

[leftstreet]

4. I just want Single Payer healthcare and legal pot

:-)

[Fumesucker]

8. BOHICA..

Because you ain't getting either one of those things..

[Oregone]

17. I want a magic pony that eats free-traded clean coal

[leftstreet]

20. Here:

http://unicornsforcleancoal.org/

[Robb]

21. I am delighted beyond words

...to find that link works. :D

[Oregone]

25. Wow. Ive found a new PAC to send money to

Thank you

[RKP5637]

27. +1000, n/t

[Fumesucker]

7. Can you direct me to the League of Women Voters website for this poll?

:crazy:

[Robb]

11. The Blue Book is in the mail.

:D

[MineralMan]

3. Flamebait. This is a worthless poll, and will do nothing

to clarify anything.

[Robb]

5. Well, I disagree, clearly.

I think it may help us understand how the other side in an argument views our positions. But if it's flamebait, alert on it.

...And if it turns into a flame-fest, I'll do it myself. :shrug:

[MineralMan]

12. We do disagree. I see this doing nothing but stirring up

more of the nastiness that has been brewing all day here, or even all year.

Of what possible use can that be?

[Oregone]

10. I think it exposes perceptions

So far, it looks like the debate is quite tainted according to everyone's perceptions. Its honestly quite sad that there exists internal strife over what can be a relatively simple reform.

[MineralMan]

16. I think those perceptions are already heavily exposed.

Again, I don't see any possible purpose for this poll, except to stir the pot a few more times.

It's not my call, of course...

[Swamp Rat]

6. You are missing a category:

I am ambivalent about the administrations general direction, AND his detractors mostly twist the facts to suit their agenda.

[Robb]

9. Dammit, Rat

...What, you want this thing to be longer?? :D

[Swamp Rat]

15. LOL!

Me so sorry. O8)

Btw, 'I like to vote' should be there too. :D

OOPS! Also. 'Robb is a dingbat' too.

[Oregone]

14. I'm ambivalent about your ambivalence

I guess that line works better when its about outrage, but at least I gave it a shot

[Cant trust em]

13. Posters here twist facts no more than anyone else I've encountered.

I don't think there's anything extraordinary about a little fact twisting. It's all about perspective, isn't it?

[KittyWampus]

18. Other- many people aren't as well informed as they think they are. Furthermore, humans discount

information that doesn't square with their already formed viewpoint.

[MineralMan]

19. "In an effort to not make this another Kucinich thread"

And, in putting that "disclaimer" you turn it into just such a thread. I'm sorry, but DU is so torn right now on this issue that this seems pretty uncool to me.

[Greyhound]

22. Not fact twisting as much as debate framing.

Dismissing, out of hand, all possibilities beyond what is discussed.

[Kaleva]

23. I selected the first option because....

first, I agree with the direction the admin is taking and second, there are many who do make an effort to put forth a well written and argued counter-argument. I may not think their position is correct but I'll concede it's an "honest" position.

[zipplewrath]

24. They don't twist facts. Jus spout talking points

They spout White House Talking points. I can have an honest disagreement with someone who does something beside just parrot what someone else is telling them. HCR isn't cut and dried in any direction. It is subject to a huge amount of interpretation and trust that the powers offered the executive branch will be used to actually accomplish affordable health care. The degree to which you support the legislation depends heavily upon whether you think it can move forward in the out years towards something useful.

[Oregone]

26. Unfortunately

Ive found myself responding with the same rebuttals recently, because the same crap gets regurgitated constantly (that demands the same response). At least I don't have my responses on macros yet.

[zipplewrath]

28. Yes, I try to tailor them

If I'm not careful in my responses, I'll just become talking points to talking points. I try to adjust them to the specifics of the collection of statements. If nothing else it keeps me reading up on the subject.

[mmonk]

29. What I don't like is the mean tone of the anti-Kucinich crowd,

the lie that he has no convictions and is just grandstanding, the personal insults about his appearance, the idea he shares the same ideas about the role of government as Ron Paul, the idea that he is not progressive, the UFO stuff, etc.. He is not perfect but he is not what the people that hate him say he is. It seems they hate him more than the Ben Nelsons of the party and similar corporate obstructionists that are really killing progress for our party and country.

That is my honest assessment on the subject and I recognize that it is my viewpoint and others may differ.