If insurance costs more than $250/adult/month or $600/family/month, it is a ripoff

[eridani]

Chain of reasoning as follows. The Netherlands mandates (strictly regulated) private insurance which costs 100 euros/month/adult, with NO copays, NO deductibbles and NO age rating. But they have a big advantage in that the government also dictates provider prices.

Assume that direct price regulation is not possible here because of the huge regional variations, and that 100 euros is roughly equal to $125. In the US, per capital health care costs are twice those of the rest of the world, so a premium of $250 ought to cover an adult. Given that kids are a healthy demographic, two adults and one kid would cost $600/month.

Therefore, insurance which costs more that that amounts to being majorly fucked over.

[Hannah Bell]

1. Thanks for that. I think there's a consensus that people are being fucked over

6 ways to sunday.

[Echo In Light]

8. Yep

[dipsydoodle]

2. You missed a bit out

If you are required to purchase health insurance and are earning a salary, you will also pay a supplementary contribution from your income (rated 6.5% up to the first €30,000 of earnings; 4.4% for self-employed individuals).
http://www.justlanded.com/english/Netherlands/Netherlands-Guide/Health/Healthcare

I appreciate that's only another c. $35 / week.

The link also makes it clear that the figure quoted is for basic care - insurnace companies compete for add ons.

[Foo Fighter]

32. That's pretty much what I have estimated for coverage for everyone

under a single payer plan. I guess I'm basing that partly on my coverage. The total cost of my health care (my contribution and my employer's) is about $530/mo. Now extrapolate that $530 over a whole population to spread the risk and I can see it going down to $400 or maybe even lower.

My health care plan provides 100% coverage for everything except for minimal co-pays ($11 doctor visit, $8 for prescriptions). Preventative care has no co-pays and they are really BIG on preventative care. Annual physicals as well as recommended tests for certain age groups (e.g., mammograms) are required. There is a $2 million lifetime max but that's one thing that should be removed if we were to ever get single-payer. However, I don't see where that would cause the cost to skyrocket as the percentage of people that will ever hit that max is probably pretty small.

For the record, the care I get is absolutely top-notch. My coverage is through a non-profit HMO. Take the profit out of "health insurance" and you wind up with actual health care. I've said it before and I'll say it again: everyone in this country deserves to have the same health care that I have. The only thing standing in the way is our bought-and-paid-for politicians. We need to have publicly-funded elections before we can ever hope to get single-payer (and a lot of other things that would benefit the poor and shrinking middle-class).

[sinkingfeeling]

3. Oh for the days when $125 would buy me 100 Euros! This morning it's 1 Euro = 1.36100 U.S. dollars,

[Change Happens]

4. I am willing to pay $450.00 per person and $750.00 for families

Should cost differently for different people...Example, I am willing to buy into MEdicare for $1000.00 a month for my family right now!!!

[cali]

15. $450 a month per person is ridiculous.

that's like no subsidy at all.

[TransitJohn]

5. I really don't think health 'insurance' is worth $8/day

No way no how.

[eridani]

23. It would pay for everything.

That's the difference between the Netherlands mandated insurance and the shitty "reform" proposal of more than that for covering only 60% of actual costs.

[harun]

6. If you are going to pay more than that it is better to just put it in a savings

account and pay out of pocket.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Really? How long do you think it would take for you to save $250,000? That's about what it

will end up costing for a very, tiny cancer on my tonsil.

[Statistical]

10. Rather than pay more get HSA account and high deductible plan.

Essentially you have catastrophic coverage with annual max and the lower premium allows you to save real money for routine care.

I am not saying HSA are "good" rather than anyone paying $1000, $2000, $3000 a month for healthcare is being ripped off.

$200 a month HDHP plan and putting $10,000 a year towards HSA makes a lot more sense than paying $3000 a month for "coverage".

[SharonAnn]

18. HSA is good for a "one-time" health issue, perhaps. But a broken leg one year and cancer next year

won't get covered by your HSA.

And your high deductible is EVERY YEAR. It resets every January 1. So you can count on paying that high deductible every year after you've spent your HSA for your broken leg.

[Statistical]

19. The high deductible resets each year but your continue to contribute each year.

Example (doesn't work for everyone).

My non-HDHP option is $440 per month. The HDHP plan is $0 per month.

Rather than pay $440 per month. I pay $0 for HDHP and then contribute $440 per month to our HSA. Same monthly "expense" but the money goes to my account.

I contribute $5280 a year to my HSA and my deductible (family) is $2400. With "normal" insurance I would still pay $5280 a year except that would simply pay the premium. 100% of deductible and copays would be out of my pocket. Over the last 3 years my out of pocket expenses have been "high" but not having to pay a premium each month helps out a lot. Our HSA now has over $14,000 in it and my deductible is still $2400 per year. Plus we are still contributing $5280 into the HSA. We look at it as our "self premium".


I am not saying HDHP makes sense for people with "reasonable coverage", it doesn't. If you can get sub $200 a month coverage that actually covers then go for it (I wish I could). I am just saying some people pay $5,000, $8,000, even $10,000 a year or more just in premiums. To me that is insanity.

For people paying that much A HDHP with low (or now premium) and putting the rest into HSA each year likely makes more sense.

[eridani]

20. They are a simple fuckover of people who don't earn enough to benefit

--from the tax advantages.

[harun]

13. Oh I don't think it is a good idea, but an option.

Hospital near me will not refuse care and will not charge interest on the amount due. So one can work out any payment plan they wish with them. I don't think it is a good option but I hear of these people paying 800-1000 a month for insurance and I find the pay the hospital payments plan to be much better, at least you aren't making a bunch of Health Insurance exec's more rich and a lot of time they don't reimburse and you end up going the payment plan route with the hospital anyway.

[girl gone mad]

29. Sounds like there may be some billing fraud involved.

250K for a small cancer on an easily removable appendage is definitely excessive. You can get a tonsillectomy in India for under 1K. Radiation therapy is also quite affordable there, and the facilities are state of the art. No reason anyone should be paying 1/4 of a million dollars to treat a tiny cancer.

[uponit7771]

9. That's why I like the tripling of the CHC's in the senate bill, don't need their insurance

[galileoreloaded]

11. I have $75 per person for insurance, anymore than that and I guess I am a criminal..

can't pay. So, I keep my income under the cap and stay on Medicaid. What else is there?

[berni_mccoy]

12. Our insulin alone cost more than that. That doesn't count all the other supplies we need.

When you count all the supplies and medications we need to care for our kids, it's well over 1k / month in costs.

[eridani]

21. Insiulin would be paid for. NO out of pocket expenses in the Netherlands n/t

[cali]

14. I pay $69 dollars a month for good health insurance with low co-pays

yes, it's subsidized by the state.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. Ask me if I have even $250 a month to pay for insurance.

Nope. That's a big no can do. :(

[eridani]

22. $250 is a maximum. The Netherlands subsidizes insurance for those

--who can't afford it.

[slampoet]

17. I just got quoted a price of $250 plus tests for an INTIAL visit. I wish i could make $250 for ....

....10 minutes work.

[Hamlette]

24. more than 2/3rds of the health care costs in the Neatherlands is paid by government.

there are out of pocket costs paid by citizens of Holland. The government also subsidizes health insurance companies for high risk patients and big ticket items.


http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2009/05/what_is_healthcare_like_Neth.php

There are some very strict regulations in the current HCR bill. I expect we'll see more as time goes on. It really is a good model, much like Switzerland. And you do know that while France has "socialized" medicine 80% of the population has private supplemental coverage.

[eridani]

25. There are no regulations in the bill that are worth warm spit

All can be easily cirbumvented. France has socialized medicine, period. There is ONE standard package, ONE card for everyone in the country, and private insurance simply adds on to the basic package.

[Hamlette]

26. The problem in France is the gov't doesn't pay for enough so you have to buy insurance too

If insurance simply "adds" to the "basic" package, the basic package must suck since 85% of the French buy insurance. I suspect you mind is made up but just stop for one minute and think about that number. 85% buy insurance. Why would they do that if the government supplied health care was so great. 85%.

I'll take what we can get and be thankful you're not in congress to act like Dennis...speaking of warm spit.

Insurance companies make a profit vs 31 million people go without care. Its easy for me. But then I'm a democrat.

[eridani]

27. They buy it because they can

The ones who can't survive just fine.

The current bill has no real regulation--just stuff that has been tried and found wanting by states.

[Hamlette]

28. complete and utter bullshit.

I honestly hope you don't believe your own bullshit.

85% of the french population don't buy health care insurance just because they have so much money they don't know what to do with it and insurance is available so hell, why not buy it?

DU has become so closed minded it is not liberal anymore. Maybe that's what progressive means: mind made up, don't even try to tell me what the facts are.

[eridani]

30. The fact that everyone doesn't buy it means that it's perfectly possible to get by without it

And all insurance claims, regardless of where the money comes from, are paid for by a SINGLE CARD under one accounting system.

[Name removed]

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