As it stands now, do you support HCR

[tabbycat31]

this is the current Senate bill and President Obama's fixes to the bill. No public option (although it looks like it could still be alive) in this particular legislation.

[Edweird]

1. I do not support the senate bill.

[tabbycat31]

2. what about with the fixes?

[LakeSamish706]

3. What will the fixes be? n/t

[Edweird]

9. The way things have morphed from "I will not sign a bill without the public option"

to 'I'm getting 95%of what I want" (in the senate bill), there is ZERO credibility. Fix it first. Pass Grayson's bill first. Whatever. As far as I can see, once the Senate bill passes, they will be breaking their arms patting themselves on the back and the promises they made to get it passed ("We'll fix it") will amount "of course I'll respect you in the morning".

[BlueDemKev]

15. No option to "fix it now"....

...there is no opportunity to "fix" the Senate bill right now. If the House fails to pass the Senate bill before the Easter recess there will be NO health reform bill AT ALL. Plus, with the Democrats expected to suffer significant losses this November, we will not have a chance to pass a health care reform bill for LONG time. The Senate bill is far from perfect, but it's a good base to start from (if it wasn't, conservatives would not be tearing their hair out trying to defeat it). Once it's enacted into law, we can add more meat to it in the years ahead.

Folks, it's now or never....it's time to send a health reform bill to the president's desk.

[Edweird]

16. Then no deal.

[BlueDemKev]

22. I'm very sorry you feel that way.

I've learned in that the best things in life don't all come in one package. Reforming our health care system is extremely complicated and cannot be done in one felt-swoop.

[HughMoran]

29. So true

[Mojambo]

4. I won't oppose it

That's as much as I can do to "support" this legislation.

[yourout]

6. Mandate with no PO.....no fucking way. Mandate with REAL PO.....that I can support.

[sharesunited]

5. They can scrap it and go with Grayson's plan as far as I'm concerned.

Expanding Medicare is the way to go.

AND... must properly schedule and fund Medicare reimbursements, NOT STEAL from Medicare. That was just disgraceful.

AND... CBO scoring can go pound sand.

[Edweird]

10. For once I am in complete agreement with you.

[gateley]

7. When I hear Howard Dean and others whom I trust say to "just get it passed",

then I support getting it passed as it stands now.

[PufPuf23]

8. I do not support the HCR with mandates and without

a strong public option.

Medicare should be opened to all and the health insurance industry heavily regulated and subject to anti-trust.

Mandates are Zeke Emanuel's incremental step to privatization of Medicare.

We need more medical professionals and the ability for people to obtain the schooling without huge student debt.

I find it hard to fathom that a Democratic Congress and the Obama I voted for support this clusterfuck of corporate welfare. loopholes, and regressive policy.

Fuck war too.

[Mimosa]

11. Need to know more about what pufpuf said

PufPuf, you said:


"Mandates are Zeke Emanuel's incremental step to privatization of Medicare."

Good Lord!Is that what he wants? Nothing like going BACKWARDS, is there?

[PufPuf23]

18. This is first reference I found so apologize for the source but

one will find many sources for Dr. Zeke Emanuel.

"Emanuel thinks the best option would be to abolish the employer-based system and go to a voucher system providing all Americans with insurance paid for through a value-added tax. Dr. Emanuel also proposes phasing out Medicare and Medicaid, arguing that the voucher system will cover the elderly and the poor sufficiently. "


http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/potus-notes/2009/aug/14/the-irony-of-palins-knocks-at-zeke-emmanuel/

[Ozymanithrax]

12. Yes, I support the most progressive Health Care bill since...

Medicare and Medicaid were enacted.

I support bringing health care to 30 million Americans.

And I support making it better after it passes.

[scarletwoman]

13. "And I support making it better after it passes." And I believe in Santa Claus.

Oh, wait.

No, I DON'T believe in Santa Claus -- and I certainly don't trust the DC politicians to "fix" ANYTHING.

[Ozymanithrax]

14. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, Medicare, Medicaid, Schip, and ...

and many other bills have been made better over time. That is how our system works.

We have a responsibility to the 45,000 people who die every year to pass this bill.

We have a responsibility to the 48+ million people who do not have health care, but are on the waiting list for a coffin and kill the bills as the Republicans and Health Insurance Companies want.

But we can agree to disagree.

[scarletwoman]

17. If you've been paying attention you'll have noticed that all of these have been subject to

being chipped away at by the current class of assholes (Rep AND Dem) in DC these days.

I stand by my statement -- I don't trust the current crop of feckless Dems and batshit insane Reps to "fix" anything.

[Ozymanithrax]

19. And they have all been made better, also...

We do what good with can when we can do it.

Governor Dean, Maddow, Bernie Sanders, and most of the people on the left are behind this bill. It will do a lot of good.

[scarletwoman]

25. Sorry. My trust is gone. I don't care what Dean or Maddow or Sanders say.

My trust is gone. I don't for a moment believe that anything is going to get "fixed", except in the sense of a "fixed" outcome like a "fixed" fight or a "fixed" ballgame.

sw

[yodoobo]

20. Yes. Its either this or nothing

The last opportunity was 15 years ago.

the next opportunity will probably be one or two decades from now.

People can't wait that long.

The time for discussion and handwringing is over its time to pass it and worry about the details later.

This bill, while flawed will provide the platform we need to build on.

[BlueDemKev]

23. 100% agreed

[GoCubsGo]

31. Yup. It's a foot in the door.

In this poisoned political climate, we will NEVER see "perfect", so "imperfect" will have to do. For those who say that this current bill won't get "fixed", what makes you think ANYTHING will pass if this bill gets killed, let alone them going back to start over with "single-payer"?

[Fire1]

21. K&R n/t

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

24. i will take what i can get

[bvar22]

26. Nope. A step in the WRONG direction.

We do NOT have to eat this huge shit pie to get a few good crumbs.
The Health Insurance Industry in conjunction with "Centrist" Democrats are using this Take it or leave it "package" to sell YOU a bunch of crap.

Last Week, The House successfully passed a bill to end the Anti-Trust exemption.
The same could be done for the good crumbs in this bill.
We do NOT have to accept Mandated Profits for the Health Insurance Industry.

Say NO the Mandated Profits for the Health Insurance Industry.
Say YES to ending recision.
Say YES to ending PEC exclusion.
Say YES to...(you get the picture).

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

28. 83% of MoveOn people (so-called 'hardcore left') support this

What does that make DU - 'ultra-hardcore'?

[harun]

30. We are double plus hardcore.

[HughMoran]

32. I like 'ultra'

:D

[harun]

37. It was a reference (albeit a failed one) to Orwell's 1984.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Newspeak_words.

Although I like ultra more as well.

[Mari333]

44. MoveOn is about as hardcore left as Rahm Emmanuel

which means, sellout to the highest bidder.

[3324SS]

33. No PO, No Price Controls + a MANDATE to Buy Insurance

100% CRAP!

It needs to go down unless a PO or Price Controls are in place too.

[leftstreet]

35. +1

Welcome to DU!

[Echo In Light]

38. Agreed

[uponit7771]

34. Those Nos look suspecious, glad the rest of the left is not like DU

[Jack Rabbit]

36. Barely

This bill is so weak that it isn't worth the fuss about whether it passes or not. If it doesn't become law, we will have to revisit the problem of health care reform all over again; if it becomes law, we will have to revisit the problem of health care reform sooner rather than later.

This was a victory of bribery and extortion over democracy. Of course it was bribery. Our campaign financing laws are written so that no jury would ever find a Senator like Baucus, Lieberman, Nelson or Lincoln guilty of accepting a bribe when industry lobbyists give them each a ton of money and got them to vote their way on the senate floor and in committees. As long as the bribe is written to a re-election committee and not the senator himself, it isn't a bribe. That's what the law says. And Zola said, "the law is an ass."

[dkofos]

39. This has little to do with health care reform. At best it's health INSURANCE reform.

And it's pretty weak at that.

[HughMoran]

40. Lie

[ibegurpard]

41. No

Make Grayson's medicare buy-in bill a prerequisite for passage of the Senate bill and we'll talk.

[hayu_lol]

42. This bill needs to go down...

what we require is a Single-payer National Health Plan.

Public option means nothing.

Fix it later? When will 'they' get around to fixing Biden's flawed bankruptcy bill?

When will 'they' get around to fixing the badly flawed Medicare, Part D.

How about Never.

Over 600 people have included their 3 cents in this proposed bill. They have moved all the commas, the colons, the semi-colons, and the rest of the words around many many times. Net result is a bill, that if passed, will be a catastrophe for us all.

[Daninmo]

43. I don't support this either.

The Bill as I understand it, doesn't take effect for four years. I say fix it first with the most important stuff, then pass it. They can always "Fix-it" some more later on, but I don't have much faith in that either.

[Dems to Win]

45. I voted no. My recent letter to my senators:

Please sponsor and support a Senate companion bill to Congressman Grayson's HR4789, the public option act. And please DEMAND that Majority Leader Reid bring it up to a vote the same day that the Obama corporate insurance subsidy bill is considered.

Glenn Greenwald's recent column about the Democratic leadership's cowardly refusal to include a public option in the Obama plan -- actively whipping against it!-- while paying lip service to supporting it, accurately reflects my understanding of the situation. It is enraging.

Put the public option to a vote! I DEMAND to know the names of the Democrats who are serving the insurance companies, protecting them from real competition, at the cost of American lives.

I am in agreement with Congressman Dennis Kucinich, that the bill being brought to the floor by the White House and Democratic leadership is much more a corporate insurance protection and subsidy act, rather than a universal health care bill.

30 million people will be mandated to buy their products, but will still lack meaningful access to health care, given the high deductibles and co-pays on top of unaffordable premiums, as well as the arbitrary denials of expensive care by for-profit corporations. It is not at all clear to me that working lower-middle class families will have better access to health care under the Obama bill than currently via hospital emergency rooms.

Democracy demands that the people be able to hold their elected leaders accountable. We NEED to know who is opposed to allowing all Americans access to the high-quality, affordable care now provided only to seniors via Medicare.

Please sponsor and support a Senate companion bill to HR 4789 and DEMAND that it be brought to a floor vote. Democracy requires it.

Sincerely,

[HughMoran]

46. Ummm, he can't

Well, unless he thinks he can get 60 votes in the Senate - not a chance in hell of that happening.

[Raine]

47. No way. nt

[upi402]

48. No, I don't hate myself enough for that n/t

[JCMach1]

49. If someone could tell me what is in and what is out, I might have an opinion!

Honestly, it's a moving target...

[Maru Kitteh]

50. Support? Years of my life may depend on it so a hearty FUCK YOU to eveveryone who voted no on my

chance to live.

[WonderGrunion]

51. For the 30 million Americans that will have improved lives

I vote yes.