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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:05 PM
Original message
As bad as many here feel about Obama...
...is there any merit whatsoever to the argument that we have to turn out en masse in 2010 to avoid a GOP takeover of congress?

I think there is.

I'm disappointed, plenty so, but come November I'll be running through walls if I have to in order to get to my polling place.

But that's just me. I still vividly remember life under GOP majority rule. In my own personal opinion, I believe it would be astonishingly irresponsible for liberal/progressive voters to stay home next Fall.

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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. whatever...
:eyes:
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. lol. you didn't even read the post before you hit the reply button with your little snarky eyes.
:P
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. wasn't trying to be snarky...
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 12:43 PM by Blue_Roses
I guess I'm just tired...
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
86. Supporting Dems is annoying to you?
??
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. no, the pep talks and scandalized YOU BETTER VOTE OR
__________ WILL HAPPEN gets old. People will do whatever they can and it will get done. Probably. Kicking them in the butt when they are tired, disappointed and _______ doesn't help one damned bit. People have a RIGHT to feel the way they do, based on their reading of things and kicking them around and trying the guilt crap won't help they get to a better place any faster.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Seemed like good advice to me
I guess it depends on one's perspective.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm right there with you, my dear Will...
I am disappointed in many of the things he's done, and not done...

But move over, darling...there are some walls for me to run through, too...

K&R

:hug:
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. I vote in every election...
...and never for Rs.

What I no longer do is write checks or volunteer time unless it is for my employer's reelection efforts (and that's just self-interest.)
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. What's the "or else" in this argument? nt
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. 2000-2006
That's a pretty robust "or else," in my opinion.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. 2006 -2010 have sucked just as bad. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Really.
Two massive tax breaks for the uber-wealthy.

Two wars.

The Patriot Act.

The Homeland Security Act.

Jesus, I could go on, but let's just leave it at this:

You're wrong.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Did you forget about: MASSIVE bankster bail outs, wars continue apace,
Bush tax cuts not rolled back, Patriot Act renewed? And I could go on, too! :hi:
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Wasn't */Paulsen responsible for that bailout?
Get your facts straight. Bailout was on *'s dime. Stimulus package was on this watch.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. We were discussing whether America post-2006 has been better...
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 12:26 PM by Romulox
The bailouts are part of the post-2006 package, regardless of to whom blame should be assigned. And a huge portion of them flowed through the US Congress.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Plus the war in Iraq is winding down, and Afghanistan is receiving the attention Obama promised.
Whoever paid the slightest attention during the campaign knew what was going to happen in Afghanistan.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Yes but supported by Democratic congressmen.
Remember everyone rushing home to DC to save the day?



In the final hours of negotiations, Democratic lawmakers, including Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois and Senator Kent Conrad of North Dakota, carried pages of the bill by hand, back and forth, from Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office, where the Democrats were encamped, to Mr. Paulson and other Republicans in the offices of Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the House minority leader.

At the same time, a series of phone calls was taking place, including conversations between Ms. Pelosi and President Bush; between Mr. Paulson and the two presidential candidates, Senator John McCain and Senator Barack Obama; and between the candidates and top lawmakers.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/business/28bailout.html

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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
68. Did Senator Obama vote for the bailout?
Why, yes, I think he did.

Bailout was on the Congress' dime, too.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
121. Then You'd Be Wrong
In your typically hyperbolic fashion, of course.
GAC
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
60. Call me when those policies are discontinued.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
124. Obama signs Patriot Act extension without reforms
Privacy advocates had called for greater oversight on aspects of the Patriot Act that give the government broad powers. But the version Obama signed Saturday moved through Congress unchanged.


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0301/Obama-signs-Patriot-Act-extension-without-reforms

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #124
142. This is very sad to me. Not what I had hope for. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. So what have you done to help get better candidates running in the primaries?
Or is your main mode of operation just bitching about it on web forum discussions?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. So we're done with denial, and now we're moving on to "love it or leave it" mode?
zzzzZZZzzZZZZZZZzzzZZZzZzZzZZz
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. I'm saying we have options - it's called the primaries
And I plan to make contributions thru Act Blue to progressive democrats running against conservative democrats in our primaries.

Delaware has it tough this year. Carper is a bit moderate but at this point he's an easy victory for his senate seat. We are at risk losing the open seat that was Joe Biden's old seat - so I plan to actively go out there and campaign for Chris Coon, he's got a tough race against republican Mike Castle (our lone US Representative).

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. The same people screaming at us about voting
Are the same ones who scream at us when primarying Dems comes up*. The "nothing to see here" crowd doesn't want anything changed, full stop.




( *Oh, unless it's Kucinich, lol.)
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. I know - it's frustrating
Too many of these conservadems run unopposed in the primaries. Of course it didn't help that people like Lieberman just went independant and ran. But I think if we had campaigned just a bit harder in Connecticut we could have beaten him. At least we tried there (and got Lieberman almost out of the party).

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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. I completely disagree with that.

The economy wasn't going to turn around on a dime, and as Bush was leaving office the shit was hitting the fan even harder than before.

I'm not sure that any POTUS would have been able to turn the economy around, but at least Obama paying attention to it.

Do you seriously believe that had the GOP still been in power that things would have sucked less or would have sucked the same?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Obama wasn't the President in 2006. nt
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
72. You're right. The dems weren't in power either.

*They were elected in 2006 and took in power in 2007, and during that time if you recall they minority GOP filibustered and acting POTUS Bush vetoed.

I would agree that the Dems should have steamrolled the GOP from 2009 on, but just because they haven't, mainly since their party encompasses not just liberals but conservatives as well, does not mean that I want to see then wandering in the wastelands either.



*To be fair your post: 2006 -2010 have sucked just as bad.

I believe that both of my replies to you are valid on that.


So?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
69. So you disagree with the OP? You think we should all stay home? Or what do you think?
Seems like you just want to stir up things.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
97. Hello. Do you wish to discuss this, or were you here just to disrupt? nt
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #97
125. Oh dear. This isn't a chat room. Communication *isn't* in real time. nt
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #125
130. Real time, fake time, I dont care. If you dont agree with the OP
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 10:35 AM by rhett o rick
are you saying you think we should just stay home? Or vote third party? Or what?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #130
132. I DO NOT support: Mandatory private insurance; SURGE! into Afghanistan
; ongoing bankster bailouts; "free trade" with South Korea, or essentially any of the President's top agenda items.

Are you satisfied? And how is commenting on the top at hand (rather on whatever you have set the topic at) considered "hit and run" posting? Basically, since it's question and answer time, who put you in charge of anything? :silly:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #132
136. I asked how you feel about what the OP says? It doesnt help to imply that
I think I am in charge of anything. That's a discussion breaker. Goodbye.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #136
137. LOL, you got your answer, didn't like it, and are now stomping off.
I'm heart-broken!
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
45. The or else is the possibility of GOP rule and the further dismantling

of America as you know it.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Sounds more like extortion than democracy. When do I get to vote FOR something
instead of against it?
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. It's not extortion. It'll be reality.
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 01:04 PM by MUAD_DIB
If you sit out the election then don't complain when it goes from *bad to worse.


*It took a good 8-12 years of Republican malfeasance to get to where the USA is today. So there has only been 14 months of Obama and you are already to give up?


That's not extortion. That's defeatism.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
150. Extortion is real, and it can only be defeated with unity.
Party leadership's decision to stick with the same strategy that fails every time proves that change for the better (for us) is not their intention.


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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Me too. nt
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, I have never skipped an election...
And I will never vote for a Repug president.

Those are the only certainties for me right now...I will vote, and it will not be for the puke.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
103. +1000 nt
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Absolutely goddamn right
:patriot: + :kick:
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yep, I am not happy about many things either, but I do believe that your
post goes without question for me. No mater how disappointed I am in many elected officials (and that obviously includes President Obama) they are still one hell of allot better than the alternative.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Right there with ya,
although it's been years since I could run enough to build the necessary wall-busting momentum. That said, there's something to be said for a well-wielded cane that is judiciously and repeatedly applied. . .

-
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. I know the argument that you will give
Same argument I used to give. But frankly, after 2004, 2006, 2008, I just don't buy it anymore. I see two parties, swapping power back and forth, getting people to vote by invoking gays and abortion, while the whole time they are advancing their own fortunes and power. Bush didn't do much to advance the real RW causes and Obama isn't doing much to advance the liberal agenda. HOWEVER, they both have done quite a bit to advance corporate power.

It's been a bitter pill to swallow and I wonder how long it will take for others to get angry at this kabuki dance too.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. "Bush didn't do much to advance RW causes" How about appointing 2 young RW justices to lifetime
appointments to the SC? Everyone on DU complains about the Supreme Courts Citizens United Decision--well guess what. That wouldn't have happened with President Gore or PResident Kerry.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Yup that sucked. They are pro-corp assholes
Still doesn't change how I am feeling.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. So what do you plan to do?

BTW: 8-12 years of GOP vs 14 months of Obama. The two previous years of Dem majority were blocked by the GOP and vetoed by Bush.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. I love your name !
And the answer would be: I am still trying to figure that out. I don't know what I plan to do yet. I joined PDA and will probably still work on local campaigns. But Nationally, I just don't know. My trust is pretty shattered.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Thanks. May I suggest not giving in to despair?

I know that a lot of people were expecting Obama to be the embodiment of the second coming.

I was never under that impression, but I did know that to continue with the GOP game plan would be a disaster for this country. It still could be.

Don't be shattered. I'm 45 and have seen enough to know that the GOP we have now is not what it once was. It was crappy before, but it is now far worse today. The "crazies" that the GOP used to only court at election time now have a seat, or a few, at their table. I don't want the crazies in power.

That would be something really worthy of despair.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. Just a hint that they were on our side, the people side, the workers side
Would go along way. Instead it is the big companies that get the help to become even bigger, wealthier, more powerful. I fear we have reached the point of no going back. Even the so called HCR does far more for business then it does for actual people. Not sure how to even organize to fight this anymore.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. I believe the better plan would be to keep what you have and work to primary

what you want to remove. The alternative is more GOP, and you know where they stand and what they'll do.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. Yup I agree
And I did join PDA and will work for their local candidates. The big issue for me now is trust.

Just get us the majority they said: We did it, they did little in return.
Just get us the Super Majority they said: We did it and they still cower before the republicans.
Just get us the WH they said: We did AND we believed. In return for our hard work, the companies got richer and more powerful and the people, the people are now told....
Just get us back the super majority and THEN we can do things.

That is the the problem that I am having. The trust is gone inn all of them, including my former heroes. I am not alone in this. They have to show us they ARE trustworthy. Not just "after the next election". As a member of the GBLT community, I know full well what "Just wait until after {insert election year}- THEN we can do things." really means. Perhaps this time they could try earning our votes through actions FIRST.

(and thank you for have a civilized conversation with me instead of just calling me a traitor or a repuke.)
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. And it is that sort of short term thinking that is going to keep this country on the road to hell
Yes, short term Democrats are marginally better than the 'Pugs, there's not doubt about that, they are the lesser of two evils.

But it is past time that we stopped thinking, and voting in terms of the short term gain, we need to start thinking and voting in terms of the long term future. We need to stop voting for who is going to do less harm and start voting for whoever is going to do actual good.

That is going to take a while to develop, at least a couple of election cycles. Punish the Dems for one or two election cycles and hopefully they will wake up and actually start what is good for the people instead of what is good for the corporate and the elite. If not, then we simply transfer our allegiance to a party that will put the interests of the people first. Yes, this is going to mean short term losses, a few years of Republican rule. We can survive that, we have before, especially if we know that we come out at the end of it with a revitalized, caring Democratic party rather than the corporately controlled con job that is now called the Democratic party. Short term losses in exchange for long term gain, I'll take that trade any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Otherwise we'll just continue to compromise our future away, one election cycle at a time.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. "Punish the Dems" --
Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah. It was just a couple days ago, and it was said by Mitch McConnell.




-
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. The Dems WERE punished for several election cycles and that didn't happen.
1994-2006 Republican congress
2000-2009 Republican president

And that second one wound up giving us a conservative judiciary that we are now stuck with.

No thanks. I'm not going to punish myself and my family in the hope that something that has not happened in the past will suddenly happen.
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tranche Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Why can't you hold the line and work to advance more progressive candidates.
You're need to "Punish the Dems" is the furthest think from thinking long term and it perpetuates the Republican, Democrat, Corporate whirl around.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. Wisdom, tranche.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
80. Because I've held the line for longer than a lot of folks have been alive, and what good has it done
It has gotten us a Democratic party that is to the right of Nixon's 'Pugs. It has gotten us a corporately controlled party that puts the machines of the Gilded Age to shame. It has gotten us to the brink of catastrophe.

There is an old saying, that continuing to do the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result everytime is a form of insanity. I'm tired of dealing with that kind of insanity. It is time for real change in this country, and that change is going to have to come from outside both major parties.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
62. Punish the Dems for one or two election cycles...

And punish America for another decade or two as the GOPygs destroys the country more?

I believe the better plan would be to keep what we have, and work towards getting rid of the deadwood of the party as time goes on.

The other way, by giving it back to the GOP, would just leave the door open for more RW appointments to the SCOTUS, more tax breaks for the super wealthy and more depression for everybody else.

If you need to get rid of a pest problem in your house do you burn it down or do you get rid of the pests and keep the house?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #62
79. You don't think that I haven't tried that for the past forty years?
You don't think that I haven't tried the whole "work within the party for change" schtick, time and again? And what the fuck did it get me? Increasingly conservative, increasingly corporate candidates to the point where we're staring at the situation before us, where the difference between the Dems and 'Pugs is down from a dime to about two cents.

This isn't a case of simply a few bad apples in the party, or a little deadwood that we need to prune, it is damn near the entire party that is corporately corrupt. A little trim job ain't going to help.

Working within the party simply continues to reinforce the bad Democrats while doing nothing to reform the party. I've tried this, lived it, and all that it has gotten me is a Democratic party that is further to the right than Nixon was. What, you now want me to continue down this failed path? Sorry, can't go there, can't keep rewarding such obstinate failure.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. By all means then and sit the next election out. Please reward the GOP.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Perhaps a better response would be from the Dem leadership
Maybe a few words from Rahm or Obama about how they know we are disillusioned and are going to work STARTING today to win us back.

Madhound is not the enemy. The enemy is a capitol filled with rich men not doing what we sent them there to do.

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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. I can only offer my humble advice so often to another DUer. If they don't want it

then they can sit on their hands come election day. Obama is never going to please everybody, and there will always be enough DUers that want to gripe about something.

Let them gripe, but I will be voting in November.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
154. You said it. Isn't it odd how we can see the problem so clearly in GOP voters?
Motivated by fear, they can always be counted on to return their betraying leaders to office for just one more try. It seems so obvious when you're not part of the group.

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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. William
I have a great deal of respect for you and have enjoyed reading your posts over the years. That said, I completely disagree with you about staying home. It's not like the Republicans are going to round us up and stick us in camps if they take back Congress. (At least I don't *think* they will.) What will happen is they'll pass crappy bills --which President Obama can veto if he so chooses. It won't be the end of the world.

It won't be good, but I don't think voting for people who have little interests in my concerns will help. In fact, I believe it just rewards bad (from my POV) behavior and encourages them to continue playing center-right politics. When or if Democratic candidates live up to what the Party is *supposed* to stand for, I'll happily vote and contribute. Until then I wish them luck...but not much.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. then enjoy republican rule.. you're helping it come about.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Nope.
I'm failing to stop it. That is fundamentally different than helping.

Btw, I'm not enjoying "Democratic rule" at this point...not their acting like Democrats.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
57. Don't we already have Republican rule?
The Ds can't do anything without kissing their asses.

And it is pretty clear that we are irrelevant to what laws actually get enacted.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #57
147. Right. The republicans control the Senate.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
65. They could always start another war...with Iran.

Nothing good comes from GOP rule.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
77. They *could* eat my children, too.
Life. It's full of "coulds"...among other things. :)
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #77
85. At least I was taking a viewpoint based in reality.

I would hope that they would stay away from your children, but you never know with the GOPigs.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #85
96. Fear mongering is NOT reality.
It is fear mongering. It is a fact that at this point in time more Americans have eaten other Americans than have started wars with Iran.

I refute your "reality." :)
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. But how many of them were GOPigs: the eaters not the eatees.
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 10:45 PM by MUAD_DIB
I also stand by my earlier assertion.

John will help me out with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg


On edit: The USA/CIA was involved in an coup in Iran in the early 1950s. It was one of those non-declared wars to get the Shah back on the throne and the oil flowing again.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. I also heard there was a guy in Cincinnati...
...that dislike Iran alot. Maybe that's a "war", too?

Don't know how many cannibals were actually Republican, but they seem to have a taste for Democrats:

"Popular legend, albeit untrue (at least according to the official trial record), claims that District Court Judge Melville Gerry sentenced Packer by saying, "Stand up, Alferd Packer, you voracious, man-eating, son-of-a-bitch. There were seven Democrats in Hinsdale County, and you ate five of them."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alferd_Packer
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #100
106. My point being that if the GOP wants to joke about it then you never know
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 11:09 PM by MUAD_DIB
what their real intention will be.

Things like PNAC, Cheney's energy task force papers, the planned invasion of Iraq, spying on US citizens would have been looked at with some level of skepticism by many if they were told about this in the mid 90s.

Should we really act surprised, knowing what we know now, when the GOP tries to top what they have already done?

If we work out the problems in our party, not by sitting/typing at computers but really backing progressives, then we can make it better. We won't make it better by walking away in 2010.


Let's just not give them the chance to get back into power. That's all.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #106
117. Fair enough
But I'm just not going to worry about what the Republicans *might* do. I'm far more concerned with what the Democrats *aren't* doing. They still have plenty of time to earn my vote --even my enthusiasm.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #65
104. I'm not convinced we aren't going to see that, anyway. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you Mr. Pitt, for your voice of reason
I have posted about redistricting and November 2010 elections and the backlash movements of crazy right wingers, but the threads drop like flies.

I would rather have a thousand school board members than one president and no school board members. I'd rather have people affecting lives at the local level and changing America one neighborhood and one city and one state at a time than trying to make one person and one office the full repository of all of our hopes and aspirations for a better America. ~
Ralph Reed, head of the Christian Coalition, speaking with David Gergen about his new book Active Faith and how the "Religious Right" politic of morality has filled the space once occupied by the '60's Left, JUNE 6, 1996



"He who controls redistricting can control Congress." ~ Karl Rove, March 4, 2010, Wall Street Journal, OpEd


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. The disappointment is because Obama
does not have enough wiggle room in the Senate. That has to be changed.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
146. Yes, and we have a real leadership problem in the Senate. If we hold the Senate, we will see a new
majority leader who will definitely be stronger than Harry Reid who will lose his seat in November. Any Democratic Senator except the blue dog type will be better than Reid who has been a total weakling. We all have our favorites (mine is Barbara Boxer), but we will have a better leader.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
29. I never stay home election day.
With that said, the Democrats haven't always gotten my vote. I haven't voted for Feinstein since her first run. and Pelosi lost me the last go around.

Not voting for me isn't an option. But neither is blind Party loyalty.
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. I will vote for every actual Democrat on the ballot.
But I'm done voting for fifth columnists.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. My attitude is very simple - what are we doing to run candidates against the 'bad' Dems
If we aren't doing something about it then why should they?

And I plan on donating to Bill Halter's campaign in Arkansas. At least one state is doing their part to make a difference.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
38. I've never missed an election. I might this time.
Dems don't even have a candidate in my district. The last one was an incompetent blue dog. The one before that was a former AIPAC intern who loved him some guest worker programs.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. But the general public isn't quite as astute. After a couple seasons of Dancing with the Stars
a lot of America has forgotten about the failure of the bush years.


More importantly is the Democratic Base that is unenergized for another fight after this let down. Try to win an election without grassroots support.
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optimator Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
42. I have no "responsiblity" to vote or not vote in any way
My vote shall be earned.
And these little attempts to demand it will not work any more.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
43. Will, I don't feel bad about Obama, Kucinich. I don't feel bad about the GOP being in the dog house.
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 12:48 PM by MUAD_DIB
I would like Obama to do more as well as Pelosi and Reid. I understand that Obama doesn't have a magic wand, but he needs to be tougher. The time has past for being diplomatic with the GOPiggies. They mean war so they should be given war.

What I do feel bad about is the mud slinging, the labeling of dissenting views as "right wing talking points or trollism" (not just my experience but watching it happen to others) and the general temper tantrums and fits that have become the norm. Maybe they were always the norm.

The internet makes people the tough guys that they aren't in broad daylight. Maybe that makes up for something that is lacking in their lives, or maybe that makes their daily life less worth while since if they can't be civil here then where can they be?

That being said, I will be voting in November for the Dems, but anybody on DU that doesn't vote should turn in their monikers and leave DU.

This is Democraticunderground.com. If DUes don't want to participate in this Democracy, and stay at home on election day, then what is the use of their coming here to complain if the GOP sees a resurgence?

If anybody cares to flame me then your posts will go unanswered.

If anybody has a legitimate query for me then I will kindly reply.
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ShamelessHussy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
44. hard to get psyched about a scam, how many times do we need to repeat something before we get it?
some say that is the definition of crazy.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 12:56 PM by Individualist
The quote, appropriate for this thread, is attributed to Einstein.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. but but when you flip a coin.....
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. Yeah, well put. nt
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
52. I fully intend to show up at the polls.
I'm just not going to vote for conservative Dem's anymore. So if the Democrats want to win they need to weed out the turncoats. It's not my fault if they run a candidate I'm not interested in voting for.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
54. The problem is that..
I think a lot of people didn't even know what was going on during the Bush years and that is why I always push for people to be reminded. Some people really,really believe it just got this way because of Obama.

I know a lot of people who were losing jobs in 2003 but the comfortable who didn't see anything different and who thought everything we were saying was a conspiracy are scared as hell now so they are blaming the President something that the republiCONS are counting on.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
55. Wait -- GOP majority rule is over?!
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 01:39 PM by EFerrari
Okay, :spank: me.

The real problem will be voters punishing *House members* when the House has done better than the other body or the admin, at least in mho.

(edit for oops)
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
71. Where is "east in mho"? I'm movin' there
:spray: this is series, EF, stop being fnny :hi:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. My poor horrible dyslexic typing.
LOL

Sorry!
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. the momentary bright spot
that there was "east of somewhere," where voters weren't treated like a captive audience that OWED their votes to arrogant politicos, was a pleasure.

:yourock:
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #55
78. yes, conservative rull is not though
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
58. Yep - gotta vote. That way I get to complain about stuff without being too big a
hypocrite.....
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
61. Ah, the old "We Can Ignore The Will of the People b/c They Have Nowhere Else To Go"
Good luck with that! :toast:



"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day." -- Theodore Roosevelt

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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #61
82. God, it is so disheartening.
In the Virginia Governor's race we had a choice between:

Creigh Deeds: Blue-dog, milquetoast, conservadem who said he would probably 'opt-out' if that was allowed in the HCR bill. Against same-sex marriage, and had just come to the conclusion that 'civil-unions' were 'ok' - at least that's what his office told me when I called for some clarification on his stance.

Bob 'Shithead' McDonnell: Went to Regent 'University'. Wrote a now infamous term paper denigrating working women, gay people, and almost everyone except white men.
Recently extended a law signed by former Governor Tim Kaine regarding work-place discrimination. Tim Kaine had added veterans and sexual orientation to the usual things in bills like this (race, religion, etc.). When McDonnell extended it, he took sexual orientation out of the language.
McDonnell is also cutting funds to schools, Medicare, and many other entitlement programs.

Gay bashers take notice! Now is your time to flourish in Virginia!

I considered for the first time in my life either not voting or a write-in, but I couldn't go through with it. I sucked it up and voted for Deeds. McDonnell won by 17 points.

I am just sick to death of voting for either an asshole, or an even bigger asshole.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #82
93. Indeed. Well put.

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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
70. Progressive Primary Challengers!
I'll be running through walls on June 8th - For Marcy!
https://www.winograd4congress.com/
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
83. I always vote-- just not always for dems or others who don't represent me....
eom
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
88. I'll be with you.....if they earn my vote.
But, I'll not be wasting my vote on candidates who vote with the Republicans...like they did yesterday.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
91. No More Votes For DINOs, Including Obama.
If the Democrats want my vote, they need to start acting progressive. It's a simple as that.

Scare tactics won't work anymore. It's way past time to put up or shut up.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #91
108. It's not a scare tactic to understand that by sitting out the election that there is a

potential for the GOP to get back in to power.

It may not be a certainty, but there is more of a chance of it happening.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #108
139. Who's Sitting Out the Election?
I'll be voting for progressive candidates. If that's the Democratic candidate, great. If not, great.

If that means a Republican gets back into power, that's the fucking Democrat's fault, not mine. The only way to waste your vote is to vote against your own self-interest.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #139
144.  "that's the fucking Democrat's fault, not mine"
yep! Progressives for me or no one.

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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
95. A blast from the past ...
Hello: I'm Ronald Reagan speaking for General Electric.
At General Electric, you know,

"PROGRESS IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT PRODUCT".
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
98. Unfortunately, political dynamics don't work that way
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 08:59 PM by depakid
Democrats need to have major volunteer support- boots on the ground to rally GOTV efforts. Many of these volunteers come from constituencoes that have either actively been taken for granted- or even insulted by the administration or by efforts of some in Congress.

People in thoase constituencies may still vote for you- but they won't get all fired up to go out and work for you again.

Call it the politics of disappointment- and that's what the Dems look bound and determined to harvest this season.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
101. Why would I care?
They HAD a total majority and what was accomplished? JACK SHIT.

I really don't give a fuck, my main goal is to see INCUMBENT BASTARD SELLOUTS REMOVED FROM OFFICE, I could care less if they are Dems or Repugs because they all SUCK ASS.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #101
109. So what do you plan to do?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #109
149. Vote against..
... all incumbents.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
102. Obama should give us something to fight for.
He has done everything but.

Sadly, he will be the cause we lose so many in the House. That's what really gets me upset.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #102
111. Are you suggesting that Obama is the only one to assign blame to?
Are you suggesting that he has not done anything worthy while in office?


The GOPigs have obstructed the HCR for as long as humanly possible.

They're not not voting out of principle but out of spite.

If there was a resolution for Obama to walk across the the stret then the GOP would stonewall it.


If you want to fight then fight. If you want to sit it out then don't wail and gnash your teeth later about the *GOP resurgence.


*No, this is not fear, but it is reality.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
105. Boy am I ever with you on this one!
We are not even quite 1/2 way back up the cliff face... I'm in no mood to let those bastards head us back over the cliff...
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joe_sixpack Donating Member (655 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
107. Why does it seem that we always have to focus our attention toward the next campaign?
We're always looking out to the next election for hope. It's barely a year since we won the WH, kept the House and got a 60 majority in the Senate. There's no off season in politics anymore. Once elected, posturing for the next run begins immediately. When do we get to enjoy what we've achieved?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
110. At what point are the lawmakers responsible for earning our votes?
I have always voted for Democrats and I am sure I will be showing up in November to vote for the ones I can, for all the good it will do. My Senators are Reid and Ensign. Ensign is not up for reelection this year and, unless forced to resign (please, please), I'm stuck with him until 2012. Reid is likely to go down in flames and, although I know he is criticized, I think he's far better than some of these asshats we've seen operating in the Senate this past year. I will be voting for him. I don't even think there's a Democrat opposing my representative in the House (R). If there is, I will vote for them but he's very popular here.

Now, as to who is responsible if the Dems lose big in November, I think there is some responsibility on the lawmakers' themselves. Is there no point at which they are responsible for the fact that they have a discouraged and disgusted electorate on their hands? Where is it written that they take every bad poll number as an excuse to move to the right? Midterms, especially, hang on getting your voters to the polls. A discouraged electorate is death in the midterms.

And what of the true believers? Does it work to yell and scream at those who are not satisfied with the representation and hurl the accusations at them? One day we are told we irrelevant members of the looney left and not the base and the next day we are going to singlehandedly be responsible for electing Palin. Not only is this obnoxious and rude, it's schizophrenic. IOW, if all I had to go on to help me decide my vote was the feedback I get from some of my fellow Democrats here on DU, I'd sure as hell be staying home.

But I'm bigger than the vile, immature attacks and I will be there to vote. That said, my vote is only my vote. There's a whole big electorate out there. And they're not real happy right now. The Republicans and right leaning Independents are not likely to be voting Democratic in 2010. I don't think we're going to see massive Democratic votes from centrists. And those who are working double time and laughing up their sleeves at the dissing and 'whaling' the 'liberals' are taking need to think about the fact that we really do need the left to show up for the election. A little respect might help. Might not. Might be too late. But the insults and nose thumbing is not going to get them out in November.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
112. well I'll vote... but may write in someone - 3rd party?
i wont vote for a corporatist - either party. i'm sick of it i don't care,

i'll be active in the primaries, but if the DLC machine does what it's done to me/us before - forget it.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
113. I could not, in good conscience sit out an election.
The results would haunt me, I fear. "I was part of that" would weigh heavily on me if I stayed home and didn't refute one Republican vote with my (given) Dem vote and the Dem lost.

Like most of us, I'll just suck it up.

And I don't feel bad about Obama. He has unfortunately lived up to my expectations. Sad as that may be.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
114. a vote that is taken for granted is an undemocratic abdication of personal suffrage
and people died for my suffrage.

so don't take me, and the people who sacrificed for me, for granted.

the same old canard no longer has any power over me; try to sell it to someone else who is ruled more by fear than principles.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
115. NJmaverick has already explained that liberals aren't Obama's base
which would seem to mean that the democrats have no desire or plan to govern as democrats.

so, honestly, why bother?
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #115
131. +infinity
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #115
140. Indeed. We're Constantly Being Told What a Fringe Group We Are.
Why should it make any difference what we do?
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cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
116. Well not only that...
But remember how in the primaries we all had such great advice for Obama about what he should and should not have been doing. Then it turned out he was right and we were wrong and he was playing like, three-dimensional chess, while we were amusing ourselves with checkers?

Just sayin'
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costahawk1987 Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
118. Handing over power to the republicans
doesn't sound like much of a strategy for improving anything. I'll make it to my polling place, as well.
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western mass Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
119. the DLC hope you'll buy this tired argument
and it's also a false choice. The real choice is between:

1) Democratic losses in the short term, and a Democratic Party that in the long run understands there are consequences to ignoring its constituents, and acts like it when the people inevitably put them back into power like they did in '08.

2) A Democratic Party that's indistinguishable from the GOP on all of the *major* issues, FOREVER.

Sorry, I choose (1).

And please don't give us the line that "we can't survive another 2-4 of Republican rule. First, we also can't survive another 2-4 years of corporate Dem rule. Second, the Bush years were that bad because the Dems were silent partners in everything that happened.

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3324SS Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #119
127. I am with you!
Corporate Dems and Pubs are the problem!

If there is not a clear distinction between corporate politicians and the parties it will never matter who is in control because it will really be the corporations that are and thanks to the 5 Parisian Hacks on the SCOUTS they have made corporate control of the Government even easier.

Unless a significant number of Corporate politicians are removed this next election, America will really become nothing more then a Fascist Nation hiding under the mask of freedom.
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Change Happens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
120. I will be first in line voting ALL Ds in.....nt
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
122. You also called for "purges" in '03/04 for those who didn't
fall lock-step behind Kerry.

You're a smart guy, with lot's of insight. But, when you express your opinion, I take it as that: your opinion. Not some sanctified political wisdom which mere mortals should absorb and emulate.

And, as I'm sure you're aware, "the other guy sucks worse" is pretty poor incentive for anyone to give a damn.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #122
133. Link?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
123. I have the impression that THIS TIME no amount of conscious raising nor intimidation
will get the people to the polls. Especially this push to pass a horrific Senate bill that will only transfer more wealth to the upper 1%, I'm so damn disgusted - for the first time in my adult life, I just may stay home. :(
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
126. of course I will never vote republican, nor fail to vote, however
its a little disconcerting to see this administration bending over backwards for "bipartisanship" while decidely abandoning the majority of people who elected him: the left, the unions, those against the wars and those against the bank bailouts and those who wanted the Bush administration prosecuted, and those wanted Gitmo closed, and those who wanted the partriot act rescinded, and those who wanted habeas corpus returned and those wanted to outlaw mercenaries like Blackwater or Xe, and those who wanted to end lack of separation of church and state.

When does Obama bend OUR way to compromise?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
128. I haven't even started to make a decision about what I am going to do in November.
We'll have to wait and see.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
129. Not that I support this argument, but there is an argument about boycotting the polls
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 10:24 AM by closeupready
that in throwing out one- or two-term legislators, the cash value which that experience gives in post-DC life is minimal.

The idea being that incumbents will see that there is no guarantee that their incumbency leads directly to re-election - short of murder or something like that - which, in many people's minds, can lead to profitable post-term spots on industry Boards of Directors.

Thus, there are those who may believe that the only way Democrats are going to learn that they can't take the base for granted is to throw them out/not vote for them and thus strip the office of some of its corrupting allure.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
134. agree 110%. A GOP majority was and would be a hot mess for this country. n/t
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
135. Yeah boy, that has worked so well...

I prefer to point my lance at objects other than windmills.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
138. well it seems that people here are too angry to listen to reason
but I'm not gonna vote in November either.





i typically vote in October, so I can work on election day.
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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
141. when you walk thru a storm, keep your head up high, Will
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 03:53 PM by placton
because this time, you WILL be walking alone. As a Party activist, candidate, donor, etc for the last 40+ years, I cannot in good conscience tell ANYONE to vote for this gaggle. You see, I told all my friends to vote for Obama, by letter, phone, shoe leather, etc. Now they think I am as ASS.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #141
145. man - that sucks
I know what you mean though. We don't talk about politics too much anymore. It's embarrassing.
I won't say a damn word to anybody this fall except maybe about local politics and measures.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
143. Me too Will Me too
:thumbsup:
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
148. I'm thru voting for the lesser of two evils
unless there is someone who is actually worth voting FOR I will be sitting at least the next two elections totally out.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
151. Anybody who tries to keep me from voting better be at peace with his god.
I vote in every election. I'm voting this fall in the Mid-Years. And I'm voting Dem across the board.

Anyone has a problem with that, call 1-800-President-Bush.

I haven't forgotten either, Will. :thumbsup::fistbump:
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
152. Thank you Will. Me too. nt
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
153. Odd. When policy was being formulated, we were "fringe" and "far left"... a group best ignored.
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 12:09 AM by Marr
When election time roles around, we're suddenly important again. How strange.

They should've thought about maintaining my support before they sold us out to their buddies in the banking and insurance industries.

I don't see what's to be gained by supporting people like that. I do see what's to be lost, however. If you can be safely ignored, then you *will be* ignored. I won't vote for any "moderate", Blue Dog, DLCer, or anything that smells remotely like one. What energies I have will be spent locally.
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