Biology class at Liberty University fails biology

[ck4829]

"They plan to become doctors, researchers and professors, but these students from Liberty University, an evangelical school, also believe God created the Earth in a week, some 6,000 years ago.

Each year, a group of biology students at the Christian university based in Lynchburg, Virginia, travels to the Natural History Museum in Washington to learn about a theory they dismiss as incorrect -- Darwin's theory of evolution.

The young "creationists" examined a model of the Morganucodon rat, believed to be the first and common ancestor of mammals that appeared some 210 million years ago.

Lauren Dunn, 19, a second-year biology student, was unimpressed.

"210 million years, that's arbitrary. They put that time to make up for what they don't know," she said. (Where have I heard that logic before? Oh yeah! "Life is just too advanced for it to have just appeared!")

Nathan Hubbard, a 20-year-old from Michigan and a first-year biology major who plans to become a doctor, regarded the model with suspicion.

"There is no scientific, biological genetic way that this, this rat, could become you," (Who said that we evolved from rats?!) he said, seemingly scandalized by the proposition.

He teaches his students that dinosaurs were wiped from the face of the Earth some 4,000 to 5,000 years ago during the Biblical flood that Noah survived by building an ark.

He says carbon-dating techniques that have been used to suggest the Earth is in fact billions of years old are simply not reliable. (And there is just so much reliable evidence that says the Earth is only 6000 years old, right)"

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/learning-creationism-liberty-u

"They plan to become doctors, researchers and professors"

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[Echo In Light]

1. Hey, so long as they can manipulate abstractions & get paid for white-coat-guess-work...

[joeybee12]

2. I'm moving to Canada!

Ever notice how many doctors in inner-city hospitals are foreign-born? They teach biology there.

[MrScorpio]

3. A good reason to pay close attention to those licenses framed on the wall

Remember to do that

[soleiri]

12. I was just thinking the same thing nt.

[liberalhistorian]

4. You know, as a committed Christian, this kind of

ignorant, paranoid, anti-science, literal interpretation dumbass dipshittery just drives me batshit insane. Please know that there are many, many Christians who feel the same way and that, just because someone's a Christian, does NOT mean that they're on this level of ignorance and stupidity.

I believe in both creation AND evolution, the two are by no means mutually exlusive at all except to fundie nutballs, and a figurative interpretation of many parts of the Bible. I believe in my religion AND in the solid facts of science, many of which, in my view, support the existence of God. The very notion that the earth is only six thousand years old is so batshit insane laughable as to be completely incomprehensible that people would believe it. It's truly frightening that people who are supposed to know better, and who will soon be in important positions in influential and thought-shaping professions, believe the opposite. Truly astounding.

[timtom]

5. I stand with you 100%, liberalhistorian.

[AlecBGreen]

13. +1

"I believe in both creation AND evolution, the two are by no means mutually exlusive at all except to fundie nutballs..."

I teach Earth Science and dealt with this today. "Appalachian mountains? MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD? No way. Jesus made the earth." My reponse, as usual, is "According to the commonwealth of Virginia, they are hundreds of millions of years old. As a paid employee of the state, thats what I teach. You can believe whatever you want, but when test times comes around, there is only one right answer."

[tallahasseedem]

24. That was a great response!

I truly don't know how your head didn't pop off.

[hunter]

17. They are as ignorant of Christianity as they are of biology.

That's the sad thing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. You think science supports the existence of God?

Tee hee.

[AlecBGreen]

30. the more I learn

the more impressed I am with God's handiwork. Its pretty amazing! I mean seriously, creating US out of a sea of goop & heat & electricty? How cool is that!?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. God of the gaps, eh?

Oh that's totally fucking awesome!

:crazy:

[AlecBGreen]

38. what is God of the gaps?

no sarcasm, just curious

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Using god to explain the things science hasn't figured out yet.

[AlecBGreen]

40. oh ok thanks

thats not what I meant tho. I just think its amazing how everything works. The more I learn, the cooler it gets.

[Birthmark]

6. They're even wrong about what they're wrong about!

Astonishing. Google "radio carbon dating" and enjoy the fail.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. Is that school REALLY accredited? nt

[progressoid]

14. Sort of.

http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=7650

[The Doctor.]

8. Carbon dating has been unreliable...

since carbon became monogamous 6000 years ago.

:silly:

[Winterblues]

9. I guess God didn't like his creations so much since he had Noah only

save a very few animals. All those that died out due to the flood, which apparently were more than were saved by the Ark, must not have been to God's liking. God must have made a mistake in creating them since he killed them all off. Got that, God made mistakes.......

[BR_Parkway]

10. How many could possibly pass the entrance exams to medical school

with that sort of "foundation" in the sciences

[Maru Kitteh]

26. very few

and truly, thank God.

[Initech]

29. My brother is in med school.

What he's told me about the application process is that it is very intense. They do not accept everybody - which is what these televangelist scientists are hoping for. You go through a crazy application process then what he said is that by the time you're actually accepted they're done weeding out the bullshit.

[liberalhistorian]

41. I would certainly hope that that would be the case. It is,

after all, one of the most difficult, stressful, challenging and demanding professions in existence, with lives on the line every single moment of their practice. I have no problem at all with such an intense application process. Just because you want to be a doctor doesn't automatically mean you should be one or would make a good one.

[Initech]

44. I completely agree.

I don't want my doctor to be a Dr. Nick from the Simpsons.

[Jackpine Radical]

36. Doesn't at least one of the fundie nutball "universities" have its own med school?

Bob Jones or someplace? I'm not sure their grads are actually allowed to practice in the US; they may have to go off to Africa as missionaries and inflict their malpractice on helpless indigenous peoples or something.

[LibertyLover]

11. So much wrong, so little time -

But the young man who thinks that carbon dating is the protocol used for dating geologic specimens really stands out as, well, forgive the analogy, but dumb as a box of rocks. He is correct in one respect - carbon dating (and I'm assuming that he means c14 dating here) is not particularly accurate for organic items older than about 68,000 ybp (years before present) so, no, it's not going to be accurate for geologic dating. It's sad that they don't teach the controversy at Liberty, about the different types of radiometric dating that is.

[hunter]

15. "Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution"

-- Theodosius Dobzhansky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_Dobzhansky

[AlecBGreen]

31. thanks!

I was trying to dredge up that quote out of the dark recesses of my memory. Seriously though, how can you understand cladistics & taxonomy, genetics, development, etc without an understanding of evolution? It boggles the mind how convoluted and twisted our thinking can become when we try to bend reality to meet our flawed perceptions of it.

[liberalhistorian]

42. My college biology professor was

a renowned scientist who did a fantastic job teaching in general, but especially with evolution. He was also a committed Christian who believed that evolution and creation were not at all incompatible or mutually exclusive and believed it showed the intricate majesty and beauty of God's handiwork. He was really able to put the smackdown on the fundies in the class who constantly tried to interrupt and heckle him. He knew both the bible (which, like me, he believed was often figurative, not literal) and the science of evolution inside and out and had no problem at all demolishing their so-called "arguments" and heckling. And he often did so with humor, too, which made it all the more interesting.

[JohnnyBoots]

16. Liberty was founded by Jerry Falwell. Degrees there are not worth the paper they are printed on.

Look out for Regent University grads who have JD's. It is a Pat Robertson Law school. Shockingly a ton of Bush DOJ appointees came from there....Do your homework.

[AlecBGreen]

32. I would have no problem with a Liberty grad

teaching my kid spanish... or literature... or math. But how can you teach something you think is all BS? Sorry, no fundie bio teachers, thanks.

edit - physics is OK, chemistry is OK... biology? no.

[JohnnyBoots]

35. I'd have a problem with it, I think the bias is too strong. Especially in Social Studies or

English. Phys ed, Shop, Music I'd be OK with.

[Ernesto]

18. Some mush-brain Liberty "University" kid called my home this week...

He was trying to recruit my 4.0 high school senior. I worked him over pretty well then handed the phone to my son. The nut-recruiter didn't stand a chance when my free-thinking boy got a hold of him!
It was truly funny to watch.

[sakabatou]

22. Tell us more!

Details!

[Cleita]

19. This is the problem with teaching mythology instead of science.

Most good jobs like doctors, researchers and professors require a solid background in math and science. Those children are being cheated of their future. I went to religious college, a Catholic college, myself and we had Bible and theology classes, but we also had science classes that taught the latest in the mainstream science of that time. I had two semester of Zoology and believe me there was Linnaeus, Darwin and the rest of the latest scientific thought taught to me and no Adam and Eve or Garden of Eden were mentioned in those classes.

[The Genealogist]

20. Especially concerning doctors, this is scary

Professors spend a lot of their time debating with other professors, and much of their other professional time interacting with students. Researchers spend a lot of their time collecting data. They can both do a lot of harm to society...

but...

the fact that doctors come out of this kind of a background is what really scares me. Doctors are supposed to treat people and be responsible for the health of a world for of people, using the best science has to offer. How can a doctor do his or her job if he or she cannot even function in a basic biology class?

I said it once here today and I will again...RELIGION has no place in a SCIENCE class room EVER. Never will RELIGION belong there. It isn't about equal time, it isn't about peresecution. RELIGION does not belong in a SCIENCE classroom. End of statement. Period. Over and out.

[NoodleyAppendage]

21. As an internship and postdoctoral mentor, I will NEVER consider a Liberty Univ. candidate.

Sorry, I tend to clump Liberty University grads amongst those who get their diplomas via online coursework only. No jobs for you.

J

[Maru Kitteh]

27. I would trust the online degree before a Liberty "degree."

[tallahasseedem]

23. There are no words...

my 7 year old son knows more about biology than these people. I would NEVER want one of these people as my doctor. Researchers? Yeah right.

[Initech]

28. It's Liberty (Falwell) University, what do you expect?

If we're talking television personalities, I'd expect to have a university run by Flavor Flav to have more credibility in the science dept.

[upi402]

34. When they prove 'woman came from a man's rib' & 'animals walked off a boat'

then these deluded people can teach whatever they want to each other. But the can NOT jam that fiction down the throats of the thinking and the rational.

[JPZenger]

37. Before everything was created, there were no "24 hour days"

It is easy to believe in the New Testament and still believe in science. Parts of the Old Testament are certainly harder to accept scientifically, but then again, there are tons of things in the Old Testament that I completely disagree with (such as Jewish dietary laws, which Jesus himself said are unnecessary).

In any case, it is ridiculous to assume that a "day" in the book of Genesis is a 24 hour day. There was no sun or earth, so how could there have been a 24 hour day? Each day could easily represent a billion years.

[gratuitous]

43. It's also in how you read the text

Literalism in reading and interpreting texts didn't come along until late in the 19th century. In part, we can blame science and the scientific method, I suppose, for that. The thing is, for centuries, people knew how to use and interpret the language of myth, and there was little confusion about whether a mythical story was literally true or not. Children's book author Patricia Polacco describes listening to a story told by her Nana, and she and the other kids asking, "Is that true, Nana?" Nana would look imperious and say, "Of course it's true!" and then add, a little quieter, "It just may not have happened."

In the same way, the two creation stories from Genesis hold their own kind of truth, and reward careful study and discussion with a treasure trove of insights. But even on their own terms, they don't hold themselves out as literally true. After all, if they are to be taken as accurate reports of actual events, why are there two creation stories? They can't both be right. It's a sin to just open a book and close your mind.

[JPZenger]

45. I recommend the above post

[JBoy]

46. Well, they recruit only the best and brightest to teach biology:

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/290

Position: Multiple Faculty Positions in the 2007-2008
Salary: Unspecified
Institution: Liberty University
Location: Virginia
Date posted: 10/30/2006

Liberty University

Liberty University is a Christian liberal arts university with nearly 9,600 resident students as well as several thousand additional students in its distance-learning program. The University is seeking faculty who can demonstrate a personal faith commitment to its evangelical Christian purpose and who are dedicated to excellence in teaching for the following anticipated openings in the 2007-2008 academic year.

COLLEGE OF ARTS AND SCIENCES - Dr. Roger Schultz, Dean

Biology: Two positions. Rank open. Ph.D. and compatibility with a young-earth creationist philosophy required. 1) Human anatomy and physiology, 2) undergraduate genetics. Supervision of undergraduate research expected. Contact Dr. Paul Sattler - [e-mail].

Center for Creation Studies: Rank open. Ph.D. and experience in the origins controversy from a young earth creation perspective required.

Faculty will teach the required course in creation as well as develop and/or teach in their area of science expertise. Ability to teach courses in astronomy, anatomy and physiology, or other biology courses preferred. Contact Dr. David DeWitt [e-mail].
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You will teach creation, as well as some other stuff that is less important.