Sean Penn says that reporters who call Chavez a dictator should be jailed

[cali]

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is grateful that actor Sean Penn has defended him against his critics within the U.S. media. In an appearance on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" last week, Penn slammed Chavez critics who refer to the socialist leader as a dictator.

The Oscar-winning celebrity noted that Chavez has won repeated elections and suggested that media critics who call him a dictator should be jailed.

He says that "there should be a bar for which one goes to prison for these kinds of biases."

<snip>

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_VENEZUELA_SEAN_PENN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-03-11-15-57-

If he actually believes that he's an idiot.

[Brickbat]

1. How embarrassing.

[tammywammy]

2. ...

:rofl:

[Uzybone]

3. left wing madness is still madness

hopefully he is being tongue in cheek.

[upi402]

7. You probably said that when he went to Iraq too?

You know you said he was a useful idiot now didn't ya? But he was right, though most said he was a tin foil hatter. Penn was right. Is it possible he's right again?

[cali]

8. uh, no honeypie, I said nothing of the sort when he went to Iraq

I wasn't staunchly against the Iraq war. And I said nothing about his trip there as I recall.

And no, genius, he sure as fuck isn't right about jailing journalists who call Chavez a dictator.

And it astonishing that anyone would think he was.

Stupid is as stupid does. Problem is it doesn't do anything very well, dear.

[upi402]

17. I wasn't talking to you

But if I need to be condescended to I will

You really take the piss at times

[Echo In Light]

31. lol..yeah...I was wondering why I recognized so few poster's names in this thread

Two min hate, anyone?

[cali]

58. two minute hate?

hardly. though I don't particularly admire Penn outside the acting sphere, I certainly don't hate him. I do think this was a remarkably stupid thing for him to say. But perhaps, you agree with him. That would certainly not be a surpise, honey.

:rofl:

[Echo In Light]

62. See?...that's what I'm referring to w/"two min hate." Unnecessarily snarky/combative...over what?

[ima_sinnic]

102. wow, you're "honey" too?

I guess it doesn't take much to make the "honey" list.

[Whisp]

43. he's right about Chavez not being a dictator.

but for some reason people here still spout that dictator nonsense.

Ven had more open and honest elections than americans can only dream about for the past few decades.

land of the free, o yah.

how many people did Chavez murder domestically and worldwide?
whose the fricken dictator, Bush vs. Chavez? who kills more people just by not having a health care system, or by pharma killing thousands a year for their inferior but profitable products. Who incarcerates more people per capita, Ven or USA. who makes prisons factories for corporations?

this 'we are number 1' is quite nauseauting, to the point of pure blindness to your own faults but are so quick to jump on others.

[Uzybone]

51. WTF are you talking about?

I have no idea when, what and why Penn went to Iraq and I really don't care, unlike some I don't base my opinions on what famous people think.

I never commented on Penn going to Iraq. Sorry your idol is sounding like a fool about Chavez. Why cant you just say that?

[Arkana]

52. Um no.

Outwardly calling for the jailing of reporters who call Chavez a dictator? How, how, HOW is this anything but twisted and wrong?

[Echo In Light]

63. Context, that's "how."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Choco-truth.

[NoNothing]

5. Wow, no wonder those two get along so well

Birds of a feather and all that.

[Blue-Jay]

6. That's a head-scratcher.

I like Sean Penn, but sometimes I think that "he ain't all there".

[cali]

11. that's pretty much my take on him too.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. And if Chavez did that, he would be a dictator and a tyrant.

[Better Today]

14. I agree that jailing is too far, but their creds should be stripped and they should be fined

for all and any lies they "report" as "news"

[Ozymanithrax]

19. I'm a great believer in Freedom of Speech...

Governments that set themselves up as the arbiters of truth in the media have become tyranies or dictatorships.

[Better Today]

21. As I clarified, I'm discussing "news reporters," not the average Joe on the

street that has an opinion. I do believe that as a nation we have a right and it has an obligation to assure that news is fact based, not promoting lies or allowing unchallenged lies.


Anything tagged as "news," should be required to state facts, so that FOX could have opinion pieces full of lies, but FOXNews (all programming under this heading) couldn't. ABC Primetime could have opinions full of lies, but ABC NEWS could not, and so on.

[sufrommich]

29. Who should be the great arbiter of "truth"? nt

[Better Today]

34. So I guess Rachel Maddow who is exposing lies right and left and sideways

is some sort of extraordinary genius. Or are you actually trying to suggest that the truth is not available? Certainly some issues are entirely opinion based for example, "This Senate bill will ruin America." or conversely "This Senate bill will save America." However many comments that claim facts are easily proved true or false, such as the death-panel claim or the claim that none of the Republican ideas are in the bill and they were completely ignored. These are provably false, ie LIES!

[Maru Kitteh]

82. I'm 99.9% certain RM would tell you jailing journalists is a dumb fucking idea

[cali]

24. who decides what's a lie and what's opinion?

you have some very scary ideas.

[Better Today]

36. Really?!? Are so many on DU truly unable to tell a lie from the truth that you

don't think that Americans can find the way to file complaints against those NEWS organizations and shows that lie? Really?

No wonder we are in such sad ass shape.

[cali]

41. I'm not a big believer in "the truth"; in facts, very much so

in some nebulous "truth", not so much.

[Better Today]

45. Fine, then anyone reporting lies about FACTS, should have their creds pulled and be fined.

Which is all I've been saying. Geez, truth or facts, WTF, in my world the truth is backed up by facts, opinions don't need to be.

For example one could say, "Obama's a complete jerk" and that could stand, but to say "Obama is a dictator," would be not because it is provably false with those pesky little things called facts. Again, regarding NEWS reporting/reporters, not on opinions by people in general or shows that are not connected to the term NEWS.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

116. So who called chavez a dictator?

[Whisp]

46. I don't. Media (ex. CNN) who knowingly supported Bush lies

to go to Iraq should be put in fucking prison. Wolf Blitzer and co. should be making fucking license plates not more shit they call 'news'.

they were accomplices in mass murder of Iraqi's and the soldiers sent there under their support and lies.,

[Better Today]

49. Well if their creds and airtime were pulled and replaced with honest reporters quickly,

then the fine and cred pulling would have been enough. It's because they face NO challenge to their lies that it got so far.

[Maru Kitteh]

78. Who gets to decide who's "honest?" My oh my. Look at all the little Fascist wannabe's on DU.

Jail everybody who says something you don't agree with?

Some of you really should have taken your earbuds out at least once in a while in civics class. You did have civics class, didn't you?

[NoNothing]

92. Apparently J.S. Mill isn't required reading any more n/t

[OnyxCollie]

117. What if Angela Merkel did that?

Would you call her a dictator and a tyrant?

The way Germany's Basic Law works toward messages is to not consider just the speech itself as constitutional but how it can be used by the audience to form an opinion. Value laden statements are protected because as opinions they are not right or wrong. Misinformation stated as fact to cause harm to a individual or group is not protected speech.

[Goldstein1984]

10. Celebrity support serves a purpose...

but Sean Penn is an example of one who should donate more and talk less.

[Better Today]

12. If only he'd been a tad more accurate, and let's be honest we'd sort of

all like those in our media spreading lies and allowing those that spread lies to speak un-challenged to have to pay some price for their lack of factual integrity.

Sean should've said, "...for these kinds of lies"

I guess jailing them would be a bit too much, but they should be fined heavily for each lie told or unchallenged, and be removed from the airwaves.

[Ozymanithrax]

20. But who decides which of their statements are lies, and which are just unflattering opinion?

Anytime a government moves to censor what the press prints, it has skittered dangerously close, or even crossed, the threshold into a dictatorship.

[Better Today]

25. So you're okay with Repubs going on FoxNews and lying their asses off

unchallenged? Lies, false facts are easy enough to find. For example, the whole concept that the Senate bill is a Health Care take over is a provable lie, the Senate bill is an attempt to regulate insurance, nothing more. It isn't taking over hospitals, doctors, or medical care, it is insurance reform, not a take over of health care. The whole death panel crap was a provable lie, and so many more things that are allowed to stand as the truth on so many "news" channels and programs.

I didn't say they had to tell the whole truth, but lies should be dealt with harshly.

[Ozymanithrax]

32. No, I am not OK with it. But I have a problem with the government being the arbiter of truth in...

the media. Can't remember who said it, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. No matter how well intentioned a liberal arbiter would be, that position will change and, sooner or later, the arbiter is just the disseminater of approved propaganda.

Freedom of the Press must mean freedom of the Press. It is a pity that so few media organizations are willing to demand accountability of Fox, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. etc. etc.

[Better Today]

39. Facts can be proven and would have to be. I'm sorry you have a problem with that.

Once again, as an example, the death panel BS was PROVABLY FALSE! Not opinionatedly false.

I cannot believe so many seem to think the truth is so thin and so fluid that it can't be identified.

[Ozymanithrax]

57. Facts can be proven... Prove Chavez is or is not a Dictator...

That was what this is about. Many people in his country feel he has abused his office, attempted to become President for life, and done other things that make him a Dictator. Many others feel he is a great leftist leader that cares for the people. Those are opinions. Depending on which opinion you have will determine how you rate what is said. Because there simply is not fact there. Putting a reporter in jail because they called Chavez a dictator would make Chavez a dictator and proves Sean Penn is an asshole..

Now, I support accuracy in reporting. One of the reasons I don't watch Fox, CNN, ABC, CBS. I abhor the way opinionmeisters have taken the place of News. Most so called "News" on any channel is nothing more than opinion, that includes a lot of what Olberman says as well as everything said by Beck. I do watch Olbermann, but mark everything he says as opinion. But I wouldn't even toss Beck in Jail, and he is about as egregious offender of fact as there is anywhere in the media.

There is no easy remedy for abominations like Fox, and that remedy could be used against anyone. It comes down to the fact that Freedom is Dangerous, but I prefer to live with the danger than find safety.

[apocalypsehow]

37. "lies should be dealt with harshly"... Why not just put people whose opinions we don't like in camps

and make them wear little armbands that denote their status as political prisoners? :shrug:

That post of yours is truly the work of someone who has no right - NONE - to call themselves any kind of liberal or progressive. We believe in free speech on our side, unlike you.

[Better Today]

40. I didn't say opinions, I said news reporting/reporters shoud lose their creds and be fined.

[cali]

42. ridiculous.

how on earth could this be accomplished with any kind of equity? Clue: it couldn't be.

[Better Today]

54. Facts are provable. . . ? No wonder Dems are in such bad shape.

[Echo In Light]

68. Indeed

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

47. Please tell me . . .

. . . that you're a troll.

Nobody who considers himself a progressive, a liberal, or anything of the sort could seriously believe the nonsense you're spouting.

[Better Today]

56. See and I can't understand any progressive, liberal, or anything, that

approves of NEWS reporters being allowed to blatantly lie to the public.

[Maru Kitteh]

80. You still haven't answered who would have this power. Dick Cheney?

Because eventually someone just like him would have that power.

What a stupid, dangerous idea.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

109. Jailing people a bit too much but fines are okay. How very progressive of you!

[Mimosa]

13. Jaw dropper!

That man is truly nuts. Remember a week ago or so he was wishing that some people would die of rectal cancer, screaming in pain?

He is not somebody I'd want to know.

[cali]

15. No, I missed that. ugh.

[Mimosa]

18. Here's a link, Cali

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews/news/sean-penn-wishes-rectal-cancer-on-his-critics-201043

Yes, one can do a few good things and still be a crazed jerk. LOL

[wryter2000]

16. Someone had better turn up his irony detector a notch

He can't detect it when it comes out of his own mouth.

[era veteran]

22. He's not a dictator, just an opportunistic prick that does what he wants

Sean Penn should make movies and donate money but please no punditry

[Flaneur]

23. Fortunately, Mr. Penn wields no political power and represents only himself.

If I want to find people saying asinine things, hell, all I have to do is open a DU thread.

[Echo In Light]

26. An over-the-top, off the cuff remark that Penn himself doesn't wholeheartedly agree with?

... if I had to guess

[LakeSamish706]

30. Yep, that would be my guess as well. He probably played it back and wondered why

in hell he said it.

[Echo In Light]

35. I don't know & have never known anyone who doesn't do this regularly

However, w/celeb, the fishbowl, etc. I'm sure Penn cares less either way

[LoZoccolo]

27. Actors who punch people should be jailed. n/t

[sufrommich]

28. Good Lord, how stupid. Shut up Sean. nt

[Libertas1776]

33. Apparently

Mr Penn does not know the definition of the word "irony." :eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Penn's being facetious.

People who don't think he's being facetious should be dragged out into the street and shot.

[Mimosa]

50. ^ LOL ^

Somebody I know (a well-known actor) had worked with Penn and told me he never wants to again. Funny enough they've both met Chavez. I just don't get why anybody would want to be around Chavez. He's seems to be a lot like Khadafi: obviously crazy.

[berni_mccoy]

65. ROFL!

[ShortnFiery]

99. ...

:spray: +1

[Enrique]

44. there oughtta be a law

we need the "Anti Hugo Chavez Defamation Act of 2010". Call Congress right fucking now!

[Xenotime]

48. Sooo...what happened to Freedom of the Press?

[DIKB]

69. What happened to Libel & Slander laws?

[apocalypsehow]

73. They don't apply here. Too bad you can't grasp the difference. n/t.

[chrisa]

53. Skeptical.

Did he really say that, and exactly that? Since I didn't see it, I'm questioning this one for now.

Did anyone see it? Did he say it jokingly? I hate when people take jokes out of context.

[rabs]

67. Was wondering the same thing

Went over to caracas newspapers el universal, el nacional and official government agency agencia bolivariana de noticias and did not find Chavez quote. :shrug:

[Happy Hippy]

55. People said the same thing about Hitler (n/t)

[rabs]

59. So what did Chavez really say?

Anyone notice that the AP article in the OP does not quote Chavez? And the photo accompanying the article is a file photo of Penn with some sort of prize?

I find it strange the AP does not include the exact words Chavez uttered, so we have to take the AP's word that Chavez thanked Penn and never mind what he actually said.

Btw, Oliver Stone, Danny Glover, Naomi Campbell and Noam Chomsky have also endorsed Chavez in the past.

[slackmaster]

77. Um, maybe that's because the article is about something that Sean Penn said

:dunce:

[rabs]

84. Enlighten us ... what did Chavez say. ,,, in Spanish if you will

Chavez welcomed Penn's comments Wednesday and thanked the actor for standing up to his detractors.

© 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.

[slackmaster]

89. I don't care much what Chavez had to say about it, but if what you are saying is true...

...it confirms my perception of him as an authoritarian demagogue.

And FWIW, if Chavez said he didn't agree with Penn's remarks I'd still think of him as an authoritarian demagogue.

Oh, and Sean Penn is an idiot.

[joeybee12]

60. This is a learning thread, because it shows that we obviously aren't

going to agree with everyone all of the time.


Kudos to Sean for his Oscar speech last year.

This? Eh!

But I'm not throwing him under the bus for this.

[Echo In Light]

66. Perspective

:thumbsup:

[Toasterlad]

61. I Sure Wish Actors Would Stay the Fuck Out of Politics.

[Whisp]

71. i agree to a certain extent, Arnie and Ronnie, that is.

but to pick out a profession and tell them to shut up and not have opinions, is, well


unamerican.


whatever the hell that is.

[Toasterlad]

87. I'm Not TELLING Them To Do Anything

I'm saying that I wish they would stop talking about politics.

[Whisp]

90. well even if you TOLD them, the effect would be the same...

none.

[Toasterlad]

95. That's Why It's Called a "Wish", Chuckles

[Whisp]

97. kekekek

:D

[berni_mccoy]

64. Chavez IS A DICTATOR.

[ljm2002]

70. Well sending them to prison might be a little extreme...

...but I agree with the sentiment: these people who present our "unbiased" news are outright lying when they call him a dictator. He is an elected leader in a country whose elections have been monitored by international organizations and found to be legitimate. Under that circumstance, the term "dictator" is incorrect. As in, false. A lie. A misstatement. An untruth. A non-fact. Disinformation -- which appears to be the actual intent of much of what passes for news reporting these days.

So sure, Sean Penn engaged in a bit of hyperbole. So friggin' what? Good on him if it draws attention to the vipers in the press corps(e) who lie to us for sport.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

110. What about him closing down media that disagrees with him? That's very dictator like.

[ljm2002]

111. First, what is reported in the US MSM about Chavez...

...vs. what really transpired, are often at oddes.

Second, I have no doubt that Chavez has on occasion overstepped bounds, as have many other leaders, including those in the good ol' USofA. Like, a fellow named George W. Bush, who did all sorts of "dictator like" things, yet who was never referred to as a dictator, even though his elections were questionable to say the least.

It's basically group hysteria, whipped up by those in the press who think it's their job to keep us all misinformed / disinformed / and hating on everything and everyone that might be construed as even mildly to the left on the political spectrum.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

115. Bush was often referred to as a dictator.

[GreenTea]

72. Why does the AP always use the term "leftist" instead of liberal or progressive?

Because it sounds more threatening and it's absolutely meant to immediately turn people off and fearful without thinking?

Then every American liberal or progressive could be labeled a - whoooo.... scary "leftist"...most liberals and progressives are also socialist as well....I know I am.

"Leftist" is used by AP is to lie and imply Chavez is a dictator when as Penn stated, Chavez has been elected twice and the last time by over 62% of the people of Venezuela!

AP & other corporate media use "leftist" to always insinuate liberals or progressives in Latin America who aren't the propped up puppet dictators for the American multinational corporations...

I'm surprised the "Rightist" Regressive Republicans haven't used that term against us liberals and progressives here in the U.S. - Just watch they will, and the same fools as now will be frightened, screaming & pointing the finger as they are told to - against what the uninformed morons don't fucking know anything about.

[warm regards]

74. Too much of a good thing...

[Maru Kitteh]

75. If he wants to live in the kind of state that would do that - he should just become a Venezuelan.

problem solved.

Moron.

[erpowers]

76. Should Not Be Jailed

The reporters may be wrong, but they should not be put in jail. Penn needs to realize that we live in a country that has free speech rights. People should not be put in jail just because they may be wrong.

[scarletwoman]

79. So, one quote, obviously separated out from the conversation that would have given it context -

or do you just automatically believe whatever AP says is the context without them actually documenting the full discussion?

One would think that, by now, most DUers would be aware of how the corporate media spins and twists by cherry-picking certain bits and carefully leaving out other bits.

Just MAYBE, Sean Penn was making a point about the criminality of how the corporate media distorts and disguises facts and truth in order to mislead and inflame emotional responses divorced from rational analyses.

I don't know this, and neither do you know otherwise -- because one single quote of an incomplete sentence does not provide any sort of complete information on which to base an argument.

sw

[cali]

101. it's a quote. and it's hardly the first time that Penn has said something

imprudent. And yeah, the quote is pretty clear, but I find the reflexive defense of this as straight out pathetic. How about not idolizing people and recognizing that he said something stupid?

[Warren DeMontague]

81. Dude!

[unkachuck]

83. and Mr. Penn, speaks the truth....n/t

[upi402]

85. Penn spent 3 weeks in Haiti, not at his poolside

Penn did time in Fatrina, no?
And when he went to Iraq the nation was on fire with "kill the Muslims - gobless 'mericuh" false patriotism.

Now he may be trying to tell us something.
Once again, Mr Penn is too hip for the crowd.
I may not say he always speaks for me, but in the main - I have his back. He does great service for powerless, suffering people -when he could be laying by his pool.

:patriot:

[Grand Taurean]

86. Sean Penn would have no problem living under Sharia Law either.

Penn is a horrible extremist.
He is also a hypocrit. He is in an industry that calls for freedom of expression all the while he calls for censorhip.
How is Sean Penn any better than Sean Hannity who demands freedom to express is ideas and calls for all others to be censored? :wtf:

[Last_Stand]

96. Bullshit...

he's not calling for censorship.

He's calling for accountability in the media to stop damaging distortions and outright lies.

Your hyperbole is way off the charts compared to his.

[Grand Taurean]

118. I stand by my commentary.

[MyNameGoesHere]

88. Yes when they try to incite

wars They should be jailed. All those who beat the war drums from the media are responsible for lies, death and just plain stupidity. Lock them up, that's my bar. Now they are doing it to Venezuela and Iran. But I suppose now most Democrats want more war so go ahead and rake Penn over the coals for being truthful.

[sakabatou]

91. Go read the 1st Amendment asshat.

[Dappleganger]

93. If he's against free speech and dissent, he's on the wrong side of history. nt

[Echo In Light]

94. Also add: Noam Chomsky, Oliver Stone, Danny Glover. and Naomi Campbell

For those of you big on Shit Lists

[cali]

98. my, my, you really do have a little bee in your little bonnet

there's no shit list in the op, dear. and I've noted YOU are one who is very big on shit lists. quite amusing.

[Shell Beau]

100. I guess he should stick to acting. He is a fabulous actor.

[proteus_lives]

103. What a dipshit.

Actors always fall into the cults of personalities.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

104. Yeah, Spicoli......what a shame we don't live in Venezuela

Asshole.

[Kitty Herder]

105. I doubt he meant it.

At least I hope he didn't mean it. Even if he didn't mean it at all, it's an incredibly stupid thing to say.

[Swamp Rat]

106. I called Dubya a 'dictater'.

Does Sean Penn want to take away my right to free speech too?

[Echo In Light]

107. Doubtful

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

108. Quit smoking crack Sean! It's obviously affecting your ability to think clearly.

[DutchLiberal]

112. Bill Maher called Chavez a 'dictator', saying that's what he heard about him in the media...

Then, in the same show, he goes into multiple rants about how stupid, uninformed and biased the media is.

It's the same with DU (ts is a good example): everybody thinks the MSM is ignorant and biased and shouldn't be trusted... but somehow they're aalways right about president Chavez... Hmmm...

[Ter]

113. If Penn believes that then HE is the dictator

Just without any power.

[Vidar]

114. A bit extreme. Losing their press credentials for a time would be more appropriate.