Shouldn't our high schools all be teaching a basic finance class?

[NNN0LHI]

How a 30 mortgage works. What PMI is. How to keep a budget. What a credit score is. Just the basic stuff. When I graduated high school I didn't know any of these things.

I sure could have used something like that. I learned all this stuff on the fly. Only reason I did alright was because I never came across any unscrupulous mortgage lenders or Realtors. I remember all the ones I had to deal with were pretty much on the up and up.

But I never began to understood even these basic things until I was in my forties. I just got lucky. Different time I guess?

Don

[ThomWV]

1. Your example would require teaching finance, not economics. They are not the same thing.

[NNN0LHI]

2. You are right I changed my subject line

Thank you.

Don

[Bill McBlueState]

3. what would get cut to make room for that?

The teachers I know don't talk about the extra 45 minutes they have every day and what they would like to do with the time.

[ThomWV]

10. Creation studies ....

[HughBeaumont]

4. That sounds more like a personal finance class.

I think our HS taught that in the 80s. It would do a great deal of good to have this as a regular elective.

[DrDan]

5. obviously there are a lot of topics that are being phased out

it is a sad day for education - but our greed is getting the best of us - and the best of our children.

1 - cut taxes - but how do we then pay for education, much less improve it

2 - huge profits to be made by moving to charter schools and more funds to private schools


We are the most greedy country EVER and it is taking us down.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. Should be part of a required curriculum.

[Neurotica]

32. It's going to be required in Virginia starting next year

for rising ninth-graders. The class itself won't be available for a couple years since they are still working details out (e.g., one semester or two).

I think it's a good idea.

[no_hypocrisy]

33. Excellent. I've maintained there's something missing when an 18 year old

graduates knowing how to drive but doesn't know how to write a check or reconcile a statement. (Bad enough some kids can't know if they got the correct change back from a bill.)

[sammytko]

7. they teach simple interest in the 8th grade math class I am observing

It all starts with adding and subtracting and knowing how to use those skills and not go into the negative numbers. All basic math up to 4th grade.

[Gman]

8. Kids are self-intentionally ignorant in Math

They hate math so they don't try. They're too busy texting during class. Although this is a great idea, they would get nothing out of it.

[Sancho]

9. if it is not on a high stakes test - then no one is going to teach it....

finance, health, music, art, job applications, loan applications, shop, etc....

"Home economics" used to be a fairly common subject - including some basic finance items in junior high like interest rates calculations (mortgage payment schedules, savings, ).

All of that went away with No Child Left Behind. It's not on the test.

[sammytko]

12. Calculating interest is on the Texas TAKS test.nt

[Sancho]

29. I'm sure simple interest part of a math unit. Is finance "really" in the curriculum.

Do the TAKS or schools in Texas have "economics" or "finance" as a course for example?

As we know from 50 years research - the isolated "skills" don't translate unless learned in authentic and applied ways. So putting an "interest calculation" in a finite math course produces a student who gets the TAKS item correct, but many would likely be unable work out a mortgage contract. International competition does better than the US on these things, because they often spend more time on performance and problem solving and less on high-stakes tests. Look up Linda Darling-Hammonds on Youtube for some examples...

I think that some places used to teach "finance" - at least I'm sure we did in the 70's and 80's in middle schools because I was teaching it. Now, we have reduced much of the curriculum to the 3 R's, and many topics get "a lick and a promise" - but there will be a mention of things that show up inside related sections of reading or math. Likely, going through savings, mortgage, and other practical problems is one of those. I'm not completely aware of the Texas stuff, but that's typical all over now.

[Iggo]

11. And Music and Spanish and Chinese, too.

No brainer.

[LWolf]

13. I didn't get a basic finance class from school.

I graduated in '77.

I got it from my mom, who made sure I was aware of our family budget and how she managed it, and who made sure I had a savings, and then a checking account, and managed it well. I learned about mortgages when I bought my first house; mom couldn't teach me that, since she didn't buy HER first house until she was almost 50 and was no longer raising me.

I know that teachers in schools I've taught in routinely teach units that include basic finance, beginning in 3rd grade.

[sammytko]

17. I graduated in 78.

Had a summer job and checking account when I was 15. How else was I going to cash my check? I knew not to overdraw my account and always use the register.

[dkf]

14. They should be taught about unscrupulous practices.

Payday loans. Option and negative amortization mortgages. Teaser rates. Penalties.

[sammytko]

15. and all 8th graders are required to know how to..

14) Underlying processes and mathematical tools. The student applies Grade 8 mathematics to solve problems connected to everyday experiences, investigations in other disciplines, and activities in and outside of school. The student is expected to:

(A) identify and apply mathematics to everyday experiences, to activities in and outside of school, with other disciplines, and with other mathematical topics;

(B) use a problem-solving model that incorporates understanding the problem, making a plan, carrying out the plan, and evaluating the solution for reasonableness;

(C) select or develop an appropriate problem-solving strategy from a variety of different types, including drawing a picture, looking for a pattern, systematic guessing and checking, acting it out, making a table, working a simpler problem, or working backwards to solve a problem; and

(D) select tools such as real objects, manipulatives, paper/pencil, and technology or techniques such as mental math, estimation, and number sense to solve problems.

SO - the instructor can teach about budgeting and finance to fill this requirement

[customerserviceguy]

16. Agreed, but that's something that kids should also learn from parents

My folks tried to keep me in the dark about finances as I grew up, so I made all the classic young-person mistakes. They thought they were protecting me from harsh realities, but all this did was mean I had to learn from my own errors.

I realize that not every child has a parent or set of parents that are willing and able to teach life lessons, and that the schools often provide what those kids need, but I still believe that every parent owes it to their kid to show him/her how to live on a budget, and just how much life costs.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Learning this from parents doesn't work

My parents tried teaching me Depression era finances because thats what they remembered. In short don't buy anything that you don't need to actually live on. The same kind of thinking that put us into the Depression.

This information changes too quickly and needs to fit the current era or its worthless.

Don

[customerserviceguy]

20. My parents were Depression era, as well

and frankly, it would have been good to have learned how to get by within my means. They didn't even get color TV until after I had moved out of the house in 1974, and they didn't have a VCR until about 1990.

We were the poorest people in our neighborhood, because if my parents had the spending habits of our neighbors, they wouldn't have been able to save enough to be in that neighborhood. I figured that out many years later.

Maybe they weren't helping the economy by going out to eat all the time, or replacing a car every two or three years, but they were able to weather the bad times better than I did for my first couple of decades after leaving the house.

And some things never do change. There will always be sharpies out there that try to separate you from your money, even if the tactics get altered from decade to decade, a basic wariness of banks, credit cards, and crap featured in advertising is always a good thing to teach kids.

[timo]

18. down here the did

Dont know about today, but when I was in high school they had math of consumer economics, I wasnt in trig or physics so I took it, years later some of the people I graduated with were pulling their hair out because they didnt have a basic grasp on the simple stuff.

[FSogol]

21. My sons both had a finance course in middle school.

It was an assigned project involving the math, English, and science classes, where they had to investigate the prices of items, create budgets, and figure expenses for both a family of four and a couple living in an apartment. Th project also tied into how much you had to earn to have certain lifestyles, what careers paid, and what education you needed for that career. Great experience.

[cprompt]

22. my high school did - 10th grade

mr. larenby was teacher, you picked out a job from someone that was in your family or you knew very closely at the start of the year. using BLS and other resources, you had to outline what education was required, average salary, hours, etc. then you picked a house, if you were getting married, kids, etc. and we worked on a real world budget. there were guidelines that applied to all students, 10% to savings before any expenses, mortgage couldn't exceed 40% of net income after savings, total fixed expenses not to exceed 55% of net after savings. I've lived by these rules my entire working life so far. Was not a project, this was taught for a whole semester and was required to graduate. Walked you through not just the numbers but how to get there.

it was an eye opening experience for me, at the time my oldest brother was driving a forklift at a local warehouse overnight. he was making $18/hour (premium for graveyard shift) which I thought was all the money in the world at the time so I used him as my example. Turns out I couldn't quite afford the items I wanted on that salary.

I should add, this was a public high school in Mississippi, mid 90's. considering the educational scores in this state I'm surprised this isn't done everywhere.

**Edit to add - memory is coming back to me, but we also had "checkbooks" where we had to sit down and write out the bills each time, had to keep up with banking slips, etc. We covered a small amount about putting some savings into investments but not much.

[elocs]

23. I had a personal finance class--my senior year in college (early 70s).

It was an elective. It was one of the few classes which I ever bought the textbook (we rented ours). I'm very sorry now I didn't follow more of its lessons about saving, but such is life.

[mod mom]

24. My 8th grader is getting that now. Depends on the school district.

[madrchsod]

25. back a thousand years ago we were taught about that stuff....

that was dropped at my high school a long time ago.

[raccoon]

26. Schools can't do everything. Over the past decades, they've added driver's ed,

sex ed....

Some people expect schools to do everything.

[XemaSab]

36. Sex ed is CRITICAL

Most parents are capable of teaching how babies are made, but teaching about how to protect yourself from STDs and unwanted pregnancy is something a lot of parents don't even know about themselves.

For example, my mom is pretty savvy about all that stuff, but last year with the Eliot Spitzer scandal, she asked me what unsafe sex was.... I know more about safe and unsafe sex than she does because I grew up in the era of HIV/AIDS, and knowing these things could be a lifesaver.

[Dappleganger]

27. Our senior is getting it in her economics class...

but AFAIK it's not taught anywhere else, and of course not every student is gonna take econ!

We've taught them as much as we know (the older two), hoping they will learn from our mistakes. The biggest mantra we preach right now is 1)always pay yourself first, into a savings account and 2)if at all possible, never ever have a car payment.

They do understand how to calculate simple interest, compounding interest, etc. The boy (16) is going to do an internship this summer at a bank through a school program so that should help too.

I've taught them the envelope system both physically (using envelopes) and using the computer--it's what has kept us above water for years and what my momma taught me. Sometimes you had to take money from one envelope and use it for something else, but you always had to replace it with something.

We also used to play the 'needs and wants game' with them when they were little, that's a good beginning.

[slackmaster]

28. Yes, absolutely!

Most people learn that stuff on the fly, and that's one reason so many people have gotten snookered into bad deals.

K&R

:kick:

[ourbluenation]

30. IN the 7th grade my kid's teacher had them compounding interest on fake accounts...

By the end of the year she was a gagillionaire!!! :)

[whattheidonot]

31. yes,

an economics, government, finance course , at least one should be a requirement. they are interrelated. but do the leaders really want a populace aware of these matters. whose model would be taught?

[jpljr77]

34. It should be a unit in a required course, like 11th grade social studies

I'm pretty sure that a lot of that stuff is covered in Family and Consumer Sciences (formerly Home Economics) courses. But those are elective.

There should absolutely be a personal finance unit in required courses. I kind of arbitrarily picked Social Studies in the 11th grade, but I think that the Junior year would be the most appropriate (making sure to catch nearly every student before they turn 18, not as many elective spots in the 11th grade, etc.) I think that all the important stuff can be covered in a 3-5 hour unit, with a couple of assignments and a quiz/test, rather than an entire course.

[slampoet]

35. My high school DID teach a course like this back in the late 80's, it was called Intro to Business..

...but it really taught you things like balancing checkbooks, where and how to endorse checks, and thankfully it taught be about credit card interest rates.

As a result i have owned a small business and never had a credit card or student loan.

I try to pay cash or even barter before i ever borrow.


PS - This was in Northern Michigan.

[Jonathan_Collins]

37. I agree.

High time the schools started focusing on 'practical' topics.

[archiemo]

38. Missouri now requires a Personal Finance class as a graduation requirement.