I've been seeing a lot of anger against Democrats in general on DU lately...

[MrScorpio]

Given that anger, I'm pretty sure that the alternative doesn't bode for the better. If Democrats fail, the other side is more than willing to impose that alternative.

I'm old enough to remember when Washington actually ran on some amount of compromise between both sides.

Right now, there's struggle between forces who want to return to a comparable level of civility and those who are pursuing partisanship at all costs.

Here's the problem, given their past period of total control and their current malfeasance and incompetence, the GOP has shown itself to be completely untrustworthy.

They're been given chance, after chance, after chance, after chance to show some sense of honor and straighten up their act to do the right thing. They've failed every single test.

The problem with the Republicans is that they've purged every reasonable person from their ranks and flung themselves headlong off a cliff deep into an abyss of craziness.

Common sense has been slain over there.

I'm sorry to see it gone... I'm quite serious about that. Also, I'm one of the first to say that bipartisanship is currently an untenable aspect of American politics. Now is the time for the Democrats to lead by example. We need to be the ones to demand that they handle our business, even if in the absence of our crazy cousins.

Now, the Democratic Party's problem is a lot more complicated, and you would expect something like this from a class of notorious free thinking types.

On one hand, there are plenty of strong liberal Democrat fighters for the American people. Something to be really proud of as a Democrat. On the other hand, we have a mish-mash of corporate controlled, money and power greedy and just plain piss-poor Dems. I'm sorry to say that there are too many of these latter types to screw up the whole shebang.

Alright, let me get to my point:

The first part is that I want to point out two irrevocable facts. One: Congress is a seniority driven organization (?) and Two: All of them will come up for election at one time or another. Instead of bitching about how bad the Democrats are in failing our expectations and vowing to toss the whole kit and caboodle, where are the DUers who are focused on targeting just the bad Dem players?

I'm sure that you've noticed this, but some of the most liberal and dependable Dems are from districts with strong left-leaning constituencies and most of the weak sisters are from districts where they're most vulnerable to challenges.

Where is the strategy to get those strong libs promoted and get the weak-kneed friends of corporations OUT?

The second part of my point is that I think that we should get HCR passed, despite its obvious shortcomings.

The reason why is that the alternative would mean that it won't be approached again in many of our lifetimes. Yes, I know that if it passes there won't be instant gratification. Instant gratification is a sure fire path to fuck-up land. We need to think in the long term.

The long term dictates that we need an open door to change the system. Social Security and Medicare today aren't even close to resembling their original incarnations because of decades of tweaks to improve both of the programs. Yet, despite their shortcomings, they were passed and handed over to generations of Congress-critters to do their duties in fixing them... At least they had something to fix.

The long term also dictates that we need to fight for those people who we know are going to do the right types and amount of tweaking.

Rep Alan Grayson right now is doing what he can to tweak the hell out of HCR before its passed. He wants SOMETHING to work for in the future. He's thinking in the long term.

What's the alternative? Kill it because it's not perfect? I hate to break it to you, but nothing that ever comes out of Washington, despite the best of intentions, is ever perfect. Much of this depends on the prevalent flawed political process and the immutable laws of unintended consequences.

Now, what are the crazy Republicans saying? They're saying that passing it will mean a failure and future defeat for the Democrats. Think about this...and let it percolate; when have these assholes ever been right about ANYTHING?

If that isn't a sure fire endorsement for moving forward on HCR, I really don't know what is. Case closed, baby.

Let's get back to your anger... I just want to point out that it can go either one of two ways, debilitating apoplexy or inspirational action. One is bad, and I've seen way too much of the powerless whining, moaning self flagellation around these parts and very little organization to fixing the problem, which is the good stuff.

Let me point out that I think that the pointless whining and moaning is utterly self defeating and should be ignored... That way I can concentrate on focusing on the good stuff, wink-wink.

Finally, if you and to take issue with what I have to say... I'll happily reciprocate respectfully with all comers.


I hope that you're having a great weekend.

[AllentownJake]

1. There are two political parties in this country

Neither one of them should exist based on the results they've delivered over the past 30 years.

[MrScorpio]

2. They're being kept extant artificially with lots of corporate dollars fersher

It'll be one hellava fight to get that changed for the better

[AllentownJake]

3. Well, I have a feeling

Things are about to get interesting in America, politically after 8 years of Bush and 2 years of Barack.

[MrScorpio]

4. I most definitely agree with that assessment

[KG]

28. there are only two politcal parties (realistically) in this country, and that's the real problem.

[notesdev]

31. Realistically...

... there's only one political party in this country, and that is the "screw the peasants for the benefit of the rich and powerful" party.

[KG]

33. functionally probbly a better term. anyhoo, the lack of any alternatives has allowed the two parties

to work in concert to benefit the TPTB instead of acting as opposition groups.

[Echo In Light]

49. Brainwashed populace needs to awaken from the fog of propaganda and fairy tales

[Cetacea]

5. As long as we have smoking bans all is fine, apparently

Because any time something is about to reach a peak in the news on any given political situation the smoking ban threads appear. It's a pattern I've been noting going back to the 2004 election.

[MrScorpio]

6. I've never notice that before

Something to look in to

[Cetacea]

8. Stress reliever?

And it is always when there is some especially important outcome pending, or when the results of a bad one have just passed. Maybe posting about something that has been successful is a general stress reliever?

I'm sorry I am a bit off the message of your OP, though. Good post.

[RandomThoughts]

9. What are smoking ban threads?

Reminds me of a movie scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdE0qjbwwWo

[Cetacea]

12. Such a peaceful scene.

What a great movie.

[FredStembottom]

22. I first wrote about The Great American Placebo Issue back in the late 80's

..for a local tiny weekly.

Can't achieve justice, liberals?
Pent-up, repressed hatred, conservatives?

Just bash smokers again! You'll feel better in no time! And they are way too ashamed to ever fight back! Blast away!

Cetacea, I bow to you for seeing this... and speaking about it:hi:

Notes: smoking is bad for One's health.
Fred Stembottom smokes 6 cigars a year with friends. Never anything else or more often.

[Cetacea]

45. I would love to read your articles.

And thanks. I thought I was the only one to notice.

[RandomThoughts]

7. I actually agree with most of that.

I don't think anything in life is one chance one shot, it is a constant push to achieve goals.

If you look at the corporatization of the USA, there was a period of Robber Barons, they grew in power and consolidation, till they imploded and a reaction to their actions led to reforms in how all of society was treated.

Things like child labor laws, allowing strikes, and breaking up monopolies were part of older progressive movements.

In the same way over the last 30 years the corporate agenda has been consolidation and control over as many sectors as possible. They did not do it just with Reagan's union busting, or tax cuts for upper brackets, they did it with a continual assault, over many years, on the societal mechanism that are suppose to advocate for people.

If we don't get it all at once, that makes sense, and there are victories in how many people are pushing forward for a more just society. We are seeing many examples of justice returning in law enforcements, instead of just politics, Conservatives stood up for principle, not party on the Liz Cheney issue, investigation that try to make things more accountable seem to be ramping up, and even corporations are looking for ways to live up to obligations they have in their areas of business.


The worst thing to do is to look at the first mile of a marathon race and clip your runner because he is in the lead but has not won the race yet. Moving the best direction, transparency, and involvement by many people advocating for what they think and feel is right, should keep things moving forward.

[Fumesucker]

10. Democrat party?

I'm getting really tired of supposed Democrats using Republican terminology.

As soon as I get to that phrase I stop reading.

[MrScorpio]

11. Typoe, m frind

Eye Fickst itt

[tavalon]

17. I've met Mr. Scorpio in real life

I'll vouch for him. You can keep reading.

[DainBramaged]

19. I haven't met him and I'lll vouch for him.....

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

24. He be ok. Das es finger mistake.

[eridani]

13. A bill with a truncated public option and no excise tax would be imperfect

A mandate to buy worthless trash and spend tax money on it to boot is a recipe for fucking over consumers and for financial disaster.

[DisgustedInMN]

14. You make the same two unproven...

.. and bogus arguments:

1)If we don't settle for the shit sandwich that is the Senate handout to the corporate bloodsucking parasites, we will not have any decent legislation regarding health care for ____ years or decades. Says who? And why should I believe such utter nonsense? Legislation can be offered on any subject during any session. Show me ANYTHING in law or the Constitution that says differently.

2)"We'll fix it later." Sorry, I don't believe for one second that there will even be one hint of "fixing" this crap mandated robbery of We the People, at least not until we've been bled so dry that We the People take up arms in rebellion. Think NAFTA. How's "the fix" going on that? How about "reforming the rules for Wall Street?" Another shining example of the lies being fed to us by the current crop of corporate bootlickers in DC.

[WVRICK13]

20. You Hit The Nail

on the head. It has all been smoke and mirrors. We have one political party and it is the Corporate party.

[whattheidonot]

37. correct.

Until the corporate-global power structure is changed we are whisting Dixie. the empire will be built their way until such time that it is seriously challenged. Coffee Party niceness is going to begin that struggle? Folks these corporate - global people totally rule everything including our way of life. Is this what we want. the reach of their control is mind boggling. What kind of an empire do we want? the empire that is being built now spares little for the masses. do we want economic power for a few with a lifestyle set up to keep it that way. how far do we want to go with the power building? what kind of power do we want to build? this government is totally controlled by the global dudes and Obama is clearly one of them. he believes in this brand or has too anyway because these are the people who now foot the bill. we have to give them the foot, the boot. get serious.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Says who is right! If anyone can see the future that well

I have to wonder why they did not predict the crash, or the quake. Why so many said Obama could never be elected 'in our lifetime'.
Such declarations of opinion as fact are disturbing. Are these cats claiming to be psychic or what?

[whattheidonot]

38. the market

there are some services where the market model does not fit. Health care is one. health care out of the free market frees up the free market to do what it does best. making a profit on health care is nuts. Given the question, how do you make health care profitable you answer by saying that to many you give it quickly, cheaply, and you do not cover the sick unless they have a super plan. Health care does not fit the profit model and does not help to have sick people working in industries where profit does have a place. Crazy stuff.

[Uben]

15. And anger it is!

It will continue until we see our leaders do some leading for US and not corporations! One can be angry at what they see yet still support the good aspects of legislation. If I'm not buying what your selling, you better sell something else. Repackaging is not accepted.

[tavalon]

16. I bitch to keep from going postal

I'm going to be contributing and working for appropriate primary challengers. That is my plan and yeah, I'm going to vent my spleen in the meantime because I am angry, damn angry. But not just at President Obama - I have plenty left over for every blue dog waste of space congresscritter. And I won't forget, but I'm not going to shoot my damn foot off and get Republicans elected, either. Primaries, I'm working the primaries!!

[terrell9584]

18. The problem

Is that we have so called Democrats who think it's all fine and dandy created a federal law forcing citizens to procure services from private corporations.

[3324SS]

21. Everyone should be Angry

for if you are not angry then you are not paying attention.

[DefenseLawyer]

23. You can only piss down my back and tell me it's raining for so long.

People don't like to be played. Only a vegetable doesn't realize that we have undoubtedly been played.

[FredStembottom]

25. Mr. Scorpio, I agree whole-heartedly.

We have the tool for making the changes needed: Primaries.

Let's all vow to actually remove some of these bad Dems in focused, primary challenges.

It would only take a couple successful challengers to get a hundred other Congressional Dems to suddenly recall which party they belong to!

Then, so they have the ability to act, we regroup after the primaries and vote straight-party, Democratic tickets in the General.

Let's actually DO some change. Enough ineffective bellowing.
:toast:

[stray cat]

26. I would have preferred Al Gore to 8 years of Bush and Obama to 8 years of McCain

clearly there are many that don't care one way or another as they think there is no difference

[DisgustedInMN]

27. There must something wrong with my computer.

Could you please point me to any response on this thread that says what you just claimed? I just reread them again and not only didn't see what you claim, I didn't see anything that could interpreted that way, by any stretch of the imagination. Thanks for your help.

:hi:

[NuttyFluffers]

29. "debilitating apoplexy or inspirational action" agreed, but self-appointed DU wardens "DO NOT WANT"

as would be said in lolzspeek, witnessed here:

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/03/28/do-not-want-3/

inspirational action has to have freedom of expression in order to find its muse. that is deliberately stymied here in favor of party line loyalty instead of true little 'd' democracy. and the way it is stymied is by party loyalists deliberately abusing the letter of the law regarding this website's charter. but in so doing, that very act negates the very point of the power of suffrage -- real democratic choice. in essence, there exists an unsustainable paradox. since live and let live from the party line discipline side would be seen as capitulation and therefore a loss to their powerbase (the party), there can be no compromise. they have painted themselves and their potential allies into a corner and stubbornness is preventing a disengagement from a pointless and self-destructive fight.

the end result is a deliberately imposed debilitating apoplexy from sanctioned community self-censorship. it is the only choice we are allowed to pursue here. and it will guarantee that one of the best Democratic party, democratic ideal, and left leaning "think tanks" and "coordination networks for mobilization" will be frozen into powerlessness.

... and then you have to ask yourself, "why?" and "who benefits?"

[Bluenorthwest]

32. Deleted

not worth the time

[LWolf]

34. Unfortunately, some of the same charges

you level against Republicans can also be leveled against Democrats:

Here's the problem, given their past period of total control and their current malfeasance and incompetence, the Democratic Party has shown itself to be completely untrustworthy.

They're been given chance, after chance, after chance, after chance to show some sense of honor and straighten up their act to do the right thing. They've failed every single test.

The problem with the Democrats is that they're purged reasonable people from their ranks and flinging themselves headlong off a cliff deep into an abyss of centrism.

Common sense has been slain here, too.

[theophilus]

35. Who knows? Nobody. Anyway DU does not equal reality, politically or any other

way....except within the narrow confines of DU. Some great DUer once described us as the fanatical supporters in the stands of a football game. We're half naked and painted blue and the temp is in the teens. We are a little drunk and yelling our lungs out telling the coach which play to put in and screaming our disapproval when a play doesn't work. Yep. That's us. Lots of fun but not worth much in the great scheme of things. IMO.

So don't worry about the future based on "signs and portents" here on the old DU.

[tavalon]

36. LOL

That is so us. Especially the blue paint.

[Odin2005]

39. I'm angry because Obama backstabbed me.

[timeforpeace]

40. Without Bush hatred to hold this all together, what was left?

[RainDog]

46. people were READY to work for change

and if you couldn't see that, I hope you are not someone who works in politics.

[timeforpeace]

47. Nah, it was a bill of goods based on Bush hatred. Same ol' same ol has resulted or do you deny that?

[havocmom]

41. RE that struggle in Congress. I think it's all for show

and cover for not doing much to help average Americans. They bicker and posture; they come in and out of power often enough that the shift offers more cover for not doing much to help the majority of people.

Congress seems to function pretty damned efficiently when it is called upon to help corporate giants with legislation or bail-outs they want.


Hope you have a sterling weekend, sir.

[EFerrari]

42. With respect, if the Democrats fail it's because they haven't offered an alternative.

:(

And, btw, I'm not liking this not liking what the Democrats are doing. It's like being constantly pissed at a roommate you like.

[Wizard777]

43. Divide and conquer works. That's why the republicans keep using it.

They are doing quite well on dividing us. Then in November we'll be wondering how they conquered us. That's the only bad thing about the end of Bush's reign. We've forgotten the enemy is the republicans. We've stopped fighting them tooth and nail and started fighting each other for thatsword of power we gave to Obama. It's really that simple.

[goclark]

50. Well said, the Republicans are working smart

.... they can get people that have lost their jobs, lost their spirit and are just plain angry that the Economy is as it is, the War did not stop Immediately, magic dust didn't give them every issue that held dear ~

Great for Republicans because that is what they want those of us that are angry to act like ~ Craps In a Barrel is what they want us to be and until we wake up and start working together-- they WIN!
:mad:

[craigmatic]

44. Corporate money ruined the party. The reason why the New Deal and Great Society were

so good was because the dems hadn't been taken over by corporate America yet. The repubs are so far to the right that they're not even dealing with reality anymore. Is it anywonder why people are so pissed off?

[Marr]

48. I've noticed something odd.

When Democrats are in the majority, we're told that our system of government assures that change is slow. They can't do this or that because that mean old minority party is blocking everything.

But we're also told we need to keep these politicians in place, because if Republicans have 51 votes, by golly, they'll destroy the planet.

Well, which is it?