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To the "where were these hot teachers when I was 14?" crowd: some psychological background

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:22 AM
Original message
To the "where were these hot teachers when I was 14?" crowd: some psychological background
For some reason, female teachers who cross the line and engage in sexual situations with students are frequently held in esteem by, one would hope, otherwise reasonable adults who have some "hot for teacher" fantasy and feel obliged to tell DU about it. This article points to the creepy incestuous overtones of these relationships and may be instructive to such posters.

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Middle- and high school students may look to their teachers as mentors or even friends. In rare but high-profile cases, experts say, the relationship may go too far, into the sexual realm.

However the situation unfolds, it is always the responsibility of the teacher to keep appropriate boundaries. "It's never the kid's fault," said New York psychologist Judith Alpert.

...The teacher-student relationship mirrors that of the parent and child in the sense of a large power difference between perpetrator and victim, making sexual acts between instructor and pupil related to incest, experts say.

In both situations, the younger person is dependent on the authority figure, said Clare Cosentino, a psychologist in New York. The person in power is unable to see the child's needs clearly and crosses established boundaries, she said.

But usually, the victims of incest are younger than those who are sexually abused by a teacher, Alpert said. If a parent is the perpetrator, the child is more trapped because the abuse occurs at home.

Moreover, there are often threats involved in incest that are not present in teacher-student relations. For example, a man may threaten to burn the house down if his daughter tells anyone about how he abuses her. Students, on the other hand, may simply be vulnerable to the attention of a teacher or even give in to sexual acts for the sake of better grades.

A phenomenon psychologists call transference occurs when people shift the feelings they had about parents to others, such as teachers. For instance, a male teacher may make a female student feel overpowered, just like a father figure, so she gives in, Alpert said.

Even if the student is perceived as flirtatious,"teachers should still keep their boundaries," Meiselman said...

Some, but not all, adults who abuse minors have sexual abuse in their own histories, Meiselman said. These people may have identified with their abusers and taken on characteristics of the person who abused them, she said.

A student who has had inappropriate relations with a teacher will need therapy, even if the relationship felt consensual to the young person, Cosentino said. The student should explore why he or she felt vulnerable to the attraction of the teacher.

"As much as it may not have been experienced as trauma, it's an abuse of power and crossing of a boundary, a loss of innocence," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/12/teacher.student.sex.scandal/?hpt=Sbin

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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. It isn't that teachers "should" keep their boundaries--they HAVE to
or risk losing their licenses or even going to prison.

It's that cut and dried.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Unfortunately in our world most people confuse love and sex.
Authority figures should show great love for those in there charge, but many see it as a physical thing about sexual satisfaction. Most times love requires the avoidance of sex. It is sad when teachers see things in terms of self satisfaction and sex, not love.

Teachers that see things in terms of sex, and not love of their students by caring for there development do not really care for the students, since they do not understand that, as the article states, it harms the child.

Hence why the role of teaching in the better light is seen as love, not sex.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Our Bodies Confuse Love and Sex
Hence the large number of poorly matched couples.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for this post.
It may never cut down on the amount of leering that goes on here on a supposedly progressive forum every time another "female teacher having affair with teenage male student" story gets into the news, but at least you have tried to make your point.

There are usually about a million separate threads started each time one of these stories gets in the news. The one I have read thus far had a DU'er who actually knows the teacher involved as the OP. The OP was shocked and horrified by the news.

For that OP, this wasn't just a funny news story about a hot chick teacher gettin' it on with a lucky teenage boy. It was about seeing the ugly side of a person "I thought I knew."

It's an outrage when people fail to acknowledge an adult man having sex with a teenage girl as rape, as in the case of Roman Polanski. But the scary thing is the double standard: many people who willingly acknowledge that "adult male + teenage female = rape" seem to think "adult female + teenage male = "fantasy come true."
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Knowing the people does make a difference....

The one guy I know who had sex with a teacher while a student, married her when he turned 18.

They've been married about 28 years now. That's gotta be a record for abuse.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I hope he's getting therapy.
:sarcasm:

I was at a workshop where the presenter said that people who were molested but had no physical pain have worse psychological damage from society's attitude towards them than from the molestation. As someone who was molested, I believe it.

Bill
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. So, it's all the fault of the big bad pearl-clutchers that you felt bad?
That makes no sense. Who's blaming you for what happened? If anyone did, they're a fool.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. It was no big deal.
Society telling me it was a big deal is a problem. I was molested by a stranger, so there is no breaking of trust with a father/father figure. I do have a friend who was molested by her father, and she said that part of what she felt was happy for "daddy's special attention". How many people could hear her say that and not judge her as a sick individual? Do you see how that judgment can be a problem?

Bill
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Things Always Look Different
when you see the specifics and get to know the people. Indviudals never conform to stereotypes.

I suppose there isn't enough outrage at the female-teacher-teenage-student stories, so they have to relate it to incest. So unless you're as outraged as the author, you're condoning incest?

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Congrats for tossing "outrage" out there callously, twice!
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 01:08 PM by Bluebear
The original article is well-presented from a psychological basis, there was no "outrage", but whatever.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I am bothered by people who don't think boys in this situation are
harmed. Boys are harmed. That fricking Latorno (sp) bat makes me want to smash her with a shovel. (I hope that's her name. I hate her so much I can't even remember her name.)
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It was more accepted then. It certainly wasn't unheard of.
Now of course he would have never been allowed to teach again. Teachers can get into hot water for giving expensive gifts to students or even taking them in their cars.

It's a whole different world now.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. And it's not necessarily a worse one, in that sense.
But then again, there are some people who accuse you of being a sanctimonious pearl-clutcher any time you express objection to ANY kind of sexual activity. Sigh.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. There's an exception to every rule. So you found one--so what?
Newt Gingrich married one of his high school teachers at 19. That didn't turn out so hot.

Anecdote does not equal data.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's a boyhood fantasy thing
Every guy in my jr. high had a crush on one particular teacher. And this was even before the Van Halen song on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0XLKcMoXRE
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