Entire Graduating Class of Urban Prep Charter Academy Accepted to College

[The Straight Story]

Entire Graduating Class of Urban Prep Charter Academy Accepted to College
Only 4 Percent of Class Read at Grade Level When School Was Founded


Chicago's Urban Prep Charter Academy has a mission -- for its students to graduate and succeed in college. Now, for the first graduating class at the high school, it's mission accomplished.

All 107 seniors were accepted to a four-year college, a significant accomplishment considering they are from one of the toughest neighborhoods on the South Side of Chicago.

These are not so-called gifted kids at a private school. The public high school is open to all, choosing students by a lottery.

"It doesn't just happen that public urban schools graduate all of their students and get them into college," said Tim King, the school's founder.

Just four years ago, when King started the school, only 4 percent of the class was reading at grade level.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/tim-king-students-urban-prep-charter-academy-persons/story?id=10088324

And they wear ties to school:

[etherealtruth]

1. Impressive!

On edit: why would any one "unrecommend" a story of triumph like this?

[SoCalDem]

3. because some people are just assholes

:)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Perhaps because it was a charter school being very successful

[mzteris]

you nailed it! n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

111. I guess I'm an asshole then

:)

[Fresh_Start]

11. probably because its a charter school

personally its an impressive result (if true) and should be lauded and analyzed to see if it can be duplicated

[etherealtruth]

12. It has worked for those kids

All involved deserve congratulations!

I hope we as a society look at successes where ever they occur (even if it is out side of what we hold dear) and analyze and try to replicate the things that led to success.

[Fresh_Start]

13. it looks like it

of course the proof will be

if the kids graduate from college
and
subsequent classes have comparable results

I'm hoping that both are true.

[Hannah Bell]

163. sure, that's why in the 11th grade only 15% of them met state standards.

i guess it depends on what you mean by "working".

[roguevalley]

146. they can take kids or not and throw out the psychos that public

schools have to take. They are smaller and less chaotic because most charter schools have iron clad agreements by parents about their end of the deal. They also have no trouble from clothing, etc because they have uniforms. That is more important than you can know. There are probably other things too. Good for them.

[mzteris]

160. you have quite a few misconceptions about

Charter public schools.

[roguevalley]

152. huffingtonpost has obama's new plan for schools:

By 2020, all students graduating from high school would need to be ready for college or a career. That's a shift away from the current law, which calls for all students to be performing at grade level in reading and math by 2014.

_ Give more rewards – money and flexibility – to high-poverty schools that are seeing big gains in student achievement and use them as a model for other schools in low-income neighborhoods that struggle with performance.

_ Punish the lowest-performing 5 percent of schools using aggressive measures, such as having the state take over federal funding for poor students, replacing the principal and half the teaching staff or closing the school altogether.

_ Duncan has said the name No Child Left Behind will be dropped because it is associated with a harsh law that punishes schools for not reaching benchmarks even if they've made big gains. He said the administration will work with Congress to come up with a new name.

Amy Wilkins, a vice president with The Education Trust in Washington, D.C., called the blueprint a "culture shift."

"One of the things America has not been clear about is what k-12 is supposed to do," Wilkins said. "In this, we're saying K-12 is supposed to prepare kids for college and meaningful careers."

Check out three. Good luck, teachers, in poor areas. You are going to be cremated. Good luck, country, getting teachers to work in these areas. You just made it harder to get better.

[mzteris]

166. Sounds good to me -

and for theh "teachers in poor areas" - I think they're going to be well-supported. Not sure where you're getting your slant from.

some excerpts at random from the report:


But in the lowest-performing schools that have not made progress over time, we will ask for dramatic change. To ensure that responsibility for improving student outcomes no longer falls solely at the door of schools, we will also promote accountability for states and districts that are not providing their schools, principals, and teachers with the support they need to succeed.

. . .
Greater equity. To give every student a fair chance to succeed, and give principals and teachers the resources to support student success, we will call on school districts and states to take steps to ensure equity, by such means as moving toward comparability in resources between high- and low-poverty schools.
Fostering Comparability and Equity. To give every student a fair chance to succeed and give principals and teachers the resources to support student success, we will encourage increased resource equity at every level of the system. Over time, districts will be required to ensure that their high-poverty schools receive state and local funding levels (for personnel and relevant nonpersonnel expenditures) comparable to those received by their low-poverty schools. In addition, districts that use their resources to provide strong support to disadvantaged students will be given additional flexibility to provide such support. States will be asked to measure and report on resource disparities and develop a plan to tackle them.

. . .

States will receive funds to design innovative programs to reward high-poverty Reward schools and Reward districts. Rewards may include financial rewards for the staff and students and development of and participation in “communities of practice” to share best practices and replicate successful strategies to assist lower-performing schools and districts. Rewards may also include flexibility in the use of ESEA funds and, as appropriate, competitive preference for Reward states, high-need Reward districts, and high-need Reward schools in some federal grant competitions. Reward districts will also be given flexibility in implementing interventions in their lowest-performing schools, described further below.

. . .

States will also be required to develop meaningful plans to ensure the equitable distribution of teachers and principals that receive at least an “effective” rating. If states are unsuccessful in improving the equitable distribution of these teachers and principals, they will be required to develop and implement more rigorous plans and additional strategies more likely to improve equity.

. . .
(5) Supporting Rural and Other High-Need Areas. In new competitive programs, we will be putting in place appropriate strategies to ensure that rural districts and other high-need districts are not disadvantaged and are able to receive the funding they need to help students succeed. Priority may be given to programs or projects designed to serve rural and other high-need areas.


Lots more good stuff here: http://www2.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/blueprint/blueprint.pdf

[Hannah Bell]

197. you love it cause it charterizes 5% of schools every year. period.

[SoCalDem]

2. Notice something?

jackets, ties, white shirt
small classes
single-sex classroom

I would bet a bazillion bucks that these kids are not acting up in class, skipping school, or "forgetting" their homework..

They claim to be a "public school", but in reality, they are anything BUT..

"Students chosen by lottery" mandates a high level of parental involvement, and a pool of interested, motivated kids...all hoping that THEY will be lucky & get chosen..

True public schools are open to all who live within a boundary area..the "good" ones, the "bad" ones, the handicapped ones, the slower ones, the ones with unmotivated parents & the ones with go-getter parents..

These experimental schools USUALLY outperform the others because they are designed to succeed....and of course when they do, the media jumps all over it, but rarely draws the correct conclusion..

SCHOOLS NEED TO BE SMALLER

classes need to be smaller

schools need up-to-date text books & school supplies

schools need adequate funding

schools need a decent atmosphere & well maintained facility

schools need to adopt uniforms or strict dress codes, so ALL students are on par with each other, and the fashion-show/clique-identity/dating-game aspect leaves the scene

[etherealtruth]

4. Add to that ....

"Students attend school from 8:30 a.m. until 4:30pm. That's 72,000 more minutes in high school than most other students -- almost an extra school year." (from the story at the link)

This may help students who's parents (for a multitude of reasons) can't 'help' their children. Some parents that are written off as unmotivated or uninvolved are, in actuality, working multiple jobs/ long hours trying to meet the basic survival need of their families (often single parent homes) and some parents are limited by their own educational, experiential (and sometimes simply intellectual) capabilities.

[mopinko]

5. well, i beg to differ on a couple of your points.

ok, i live here. so i can tell you a couple of things about the culture of the schools here-

"Students chosen by lottery" mandates a high level of parental involvement, and a pool of interested, motivated kids...all hoping that THEY will be lucky & get chosen..

this is not true. it doesn't require a high level of involvement, although sobriety is good. applying to high schools is a big thing here. there is a great deal of outreach, starting in 7th grade, making sure that parents know what they need to do. the forms are simple. the process for the selective enrollment schools is a little higher, requiring an exam that is given on a saturday.
it is nothing like it used to be. the outreach is pervasive.


schools need up-to-date text books & school supplies
schools need adequate funding
schools need a decent atmosphere & well maintained facility

these are all pretty pervasive. chicago has a well run system, and the physical plants of the schools have been constantly improving throughout the daley/valles/duncan regime. all the school buildings that i have been in recently are in great shape. there may be some holdovers, i don't know.


i think the majority of elementary schools wear simple uniforms. some of the high schools do as well. we do it to keep the gang colors out, tho.


class size? well, that is a pretty hard thing to effect in a school that is open to all. but the union contract mandate somewhere around 30 kids (depends on student age), and although that is not that well observed, it keeps it from being 40.

it is my recollection that this school was a "charterization" of the old provident st mel, which was a catholic prep school in that area that had a similar, very long record. i might be wrong about that. so, that sort of makes it not "new".

-----

sorry to all the charter haters out there. in chicago, we do charters the right way.

[SoCalDem]

8. there are lotteries and there are lotteries..

let's say 1000 apply.. the applications are surely "gone over" prior to the choosing process..

If 400 are deemed "worthy", the 600 whose number never came up, will also never know that their apps never even made it to the final "drawing"..

The 400 "chosen", will have already been chosen as the cream of the crop, and the exam whittles it down even further.. By the time the final lottery is done, there will have been many cast off, who will never know that their app was not really ever even in the mix..

I am happy that these few kids are on the path to success, but the glorification of charter/private-public schools that swoop in and "claim" buildings that they did not pay to build, and who hire & fire at will, and who hand-select their students, cannt really be called a public school.. That's my ONLY complaint.

They are a PRIVATE (elite) school, and they have & maintain high standards. They are open to the public (by virtue of the price paid by families), but they are not a public-school.

[mopinko]

18. no. it is a simple lottery. plain and simple.

that is all there is. nobody "goes over" anything.

and when the public schools have to apply to have their "charter" renewed every 5 years, or be closed, i will be a little more supportive of the public schools.

[roguevalley]

148. when public schools get the breaks that charter schools get then

perhaps we won't have to worry about people being supportive. its a bitch teaching in public schools.

[mzteris]

208. which "breaks" would that be? n/t

[mopinko]

227. what breaks would that be?

they don't get any here.

[Hannah Bell]

238. well, from the horses mouth, you're wrong.

What is a charter school?

A charter school is a publicly funded school created and managed by interested individuals or groups from the public or private sector. The schools are accountable to the local school board and/or the state, but they are free from the complex regulations that often constrain school success....Charter schools operate with relative autonomy, independent of most state and local regulations....

http://www.aqs.org/


What is a charter school?

In exchange for strict accountability to maintain high standards, charter schools are given freedom from many of the regulations that apply to other public schools, which allows for greater flexibility and innovation in the classroom (see Illinois Network of Charter Schools web site).


http://www.ywlcs.org/faqs/


Charter schools are public schools that get taxpayer dollars to operate, but they are free from bureaucracy and many school regulations that supporters say can hamper innovation in regular public school classrooms.

http://www.chitowndailynews.org/Chicago_news/Teacher_crowd_rallies_for_union_effort_at_charter_school,25393


An ongoing battle to unionize teachers at a Chicago charter school has sparked new charges and drawn protests from more than two dozen state legislators....administrators at Civitas...argue that since charter schools have private boards of directors, they are not bound by state laws regarding public school unions.

http://www.chitowndailynews.org/Chicago_news/Charter_school_union_effort_sparks_charges_protests,27145

Why no public debate over $100,000+ salaries at CPS?
By George N. Schmidt
For this high stakes testing season, a question: When is a lawyer (er, “attorney”) not a lawyer (er, attorney)?

Answer: When the CEO of the Chicago Public Schools “cuts” the administrative budget by renaming the highest paid people in his ever expanding patronage bureaucracy. At that point, lawyers become “Senior Managers” and “Managers.” In June 2006, the CPS budget was approved amid protests against cuts of $26.5 million in special education services. By November 2006, CPS CEO Arne Duncan had renamed most major executive jobs at CPS. Duncan told the press in June and July 2006 that he had trimmed administration to the bone (amid a flurry of the usual talking points). Yet not one of the school system’s highest paid administrators lost a job, and the number at the very top (salaries at or above $100,000 per year) had expanded again. Click here to download the full list of these individuals (Excel spreadsheet).

http://www.substancenews.com/content/view/425/88/



you guys are a riot.

[AngryAmish]

25. Well, this is Chicago

The motivated/politically connected will get their kids in there, lottery results be damned.

The main reason this school did well (other than their hard work) is that they can self select and kick out the trouble makers. Every school should be allowed to do that.

[surrealAmerican]

28. That is an important point.

It's not as if these students (the ones who are graduating) were the entire class of incoming freshmen four years ago. Just like any other high school, some of those students dropped out, flunked out, or were kicked out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. And in the public school system those kids are considered dropouts

If they don't graduate with their class they are dropouts. If they transfer from high school A and transfer to high school B, they are considered dropouts at high school A, even if they graduate from high school B.

And if they go to high school in Rhode Island and their parents are deported in a raid on a nearby manufacturing plant, they are considered dropouts. Then a year later all the teachers at their Rhode Island high school are fired, partly due to the high dropout rate.

What a system, eh?

[mzteris]

140. not all public school systems do shoddy work

of tracking it's students. . .

take chicago for example . . . http://research.cps.k12.il.us/export/sites/default/accountweb/Research/Fact_Sheets/OneYear_Dropout_FactSheet.pdf

[mzteris]

105. fewer than 10

left the original class.

[Hannah Bell]

177. bullshit. Their own REPORT shows 10% leaving in 2008-2009 ALONE.

If you figure that for 4 years, that's 40%.

http://www.ren2010.cps.k12.il.us/docs/ONS_PerfReport.pdf


educate yourself.

[Hannah Bell]

164. 10.1% drop out or transfer every year, per state report. & the % low-income in this school is

actually 5% *lower* than the rate district-wide.

plus, only 15% of these kids met state standards last year.

so one tends to speculate about those college admissions....

[mzteris]

41. Every school - including traditional can and does "kick out"

"troublemakers". This school does everything it can to KEEP their students.

The Urban Prep Charter Academy Handbook describes a broad range of conduct that is expected and acceptable. It would be impossible to list all expectation of student conduct and all possible infractions. Urban Prep employees, therefore, have discretion in determining repercussions. ,
In most cases students will be given chances to immediately correct behavior that doesn’t disrupt the learning environment of the school. On not so serious offenses students may also receive a warning (verbal/written) or phone calls home instead of detentions or any other reprimand. Any offenses that disrupts the learning environment, causes harm or could cause harm to students, faculty or staff will be immediately dealt with by informing the parent, issuing detentions or a suspension.

The student, parent, or guardian who feels that the disciplinary action taken is unwarranted has the right to appeal in writing to the Dean of Students. The next level of appeal in writing is the Urban Prep’s Vice Presidents.

This disciplinary process is intended to be instructional and corrective, not punitive. In addition to the disciplinary actions listed in the Urban Prep Charter Academy Handbook, the school may assign students to workshops in truancy/violence prevention or in conflict resolution. Students whose acts of misconduct most seriously disrupt the educational process may be subject to expulsion.

The policies and administrative procedures apply to actions of students during school hours, before and after school, while on school property, while traveling on vehicles funded by Urban Prep, at all school-sponsored events, and when the actions affect the mission or operation of the school. Students may also be subject to discipline for serious acts of misconduct, which occur either off-campus, or during non-school hours when the misconduct disrupts the orderly educational process and/or the reputation of the school.

PEER MEDIATION
Peer mediation is a system where an individual or group of individuals will be assigned to meet with several members of the student community in efforts to remedy a situation before it escalates. This student led conversation will attempt to have the student(s) first take responsibility for their participation in the matter and also obtain strategies on how to resolve the situation. The final task will be to create an agreement that both must sign and adhere to. (Parents and students will be expected to sign a wavier of agreement)

DETENTION
Detention is held Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday daily from 4:40–5:40. Students who receive a detention will have 24 hours from the day issued to serve and must report on time. They are to be in complete uniform and bring a pen and paper with them to detention. They are not to bring books, book bags, coats, or other items to detention. Students who are late or fail to appear may receive additional detentions and/or be suspended. No student will be excused from detention without the advance, expressed permission of the Dean of Students. The only valid excuse from an assigned detention is a doctor’s appointment verified by an official doctor’s note or verified family emergency.
A student may be assigned to one detention for every minor offense he commits. Some examples of minor offenses are dress code violations, tardiness, minor classroom or hallway misconduct and other minor infractions as determined by the Dean of Students.
A student may be assigned to one detention for every minor offense he commits. Some examples of minor offenses are dress code violations, tardiness, minor classroom or hallway misconduct and other minor infractions as determined by the Dean of Students.
A student may also be assigned two (2) or more detentions for any major infraction of school rules. Some examples of major offenses are: cutting class; insubordination; smoking/using tobacco products; vandalism; theft; possession of another student’s or school property; forgery; extreme tardiness; and other offenses as determined by the Dean of Students.
For each offense, a student receives a ―Detention Slip‖ indicating the infraction. The student is to have this slip signed by a parent and returned to the Dean’s Office by 8:30 a.m. the next school day. Failure to return this slip on time merits another detention.
Students may only serve one detention at a time. If a student receives more than one detention on the same day he must serve one day for each detention received (two detentions issued the same day will result in two consecutive days in detention). All detention time must be served before the end of the school year. Detention time can be served after final exams. However, no extensions will be given into the summer.
Students may be required to serve Saturday detention. Students assigned to detention may be required to work on projects determined by the school. Parents and students consent to this school policy by the student’s enrollment at Urban Prep Charter Academy for Young Men. Teachers may detain students after school for a reasonable length of time.
Minor Offenses (One Detention) Major Offenses (Two or more Detentions)
Classroom Disturbances Misuse of Property
Disorderly Conduct Cutting Class
Violation of Dress Code Cutting Detention
Unauthorized food outside Café Smoking in school/grounds
Unbecoming Language Forged Signature
Out of Bounds Theft
Tardiness Insubordination
Other similar offenses Other similar offenses

PROBATION
students who have demonstrated difficulties of adhering to school rules/codes of conduct and fail to reach minimal academic proficiency. The Dean of Students for accumulated major and minor infractions of school rules and regulations may place a student on probation. Any student who accumulates ten (10) detentions will be placed on probation. Students with academic deficiency may b eput on Prodbation by the V.P. of Academic Programs. Any student receiving multiple failing grades at semester or returns to Urban Prep after summer session with credit deficiencies will be automatically put on probation. If an appreciable improvement in behavior or academic growth is not evident within one semester, the student will be brought before the Discipline Board for a hearing. Probation does not determine a student’s good standing, unless specifically stated in the contract written be the administrator.

SUSPENSION (In/Out of School)
If a student’s misconduct is considered serious enough, he will be suspended from school by the Dean of Students for two days and a parent conference with the Dean or with the Discipline Board will be scheduled. During suspension, the student may not attend class, or participate in any extracurricular activities. It is the student’s responsibility to meet with his teachers before or after school to make up any missed assignments.
Out of school suspension or in-school suspension may be imposed on a student for a variety of reasons—all having to do with a very serious breach of school regulations. The examples given here are a list of offenses that may result in suspension from one to five (1 to 5) days, but other behaviors that seriously disrupt the educational process may also result in a suspension. A student may be suspended immediately for cutting detention, fighting, possessing a weapon, or using (or being in the presence of those using) alcohol or drugs. A student may be suspended for any major offense, such as insubordination, theft, and possession of another student’s or school property, excessive violation of dress code, vandalism or forgery and violation of the electronic devices policy on school grounds.
Students are usually not suspended for more than five days; in most cases the normal length of time is two school days.
An example of a two-day suspension is a fight between two students. The students are usually sent home to prevent further confrontations between them. Another example of suspension for two-days is a case where a student is suspended after appearing before the Discipline Board. This is to allow the Vice Presidents time to review the recommendation of the Board and to make their final decision. In very serious cases, a student may also be suspended prior to his conference before the Discipline Board.
Students who are suspended are not to participate in any school activities whatsoever. They may not practice for or participate in athletic contests. They may not attend school functions such as club meetings, school dances or athletic contests.
Students and parents will be notified by the Dean of Students of all terms regarding the nature of the suspension.

EXPULSION
Expulsion is the last resort against a serious offense. Offenses warranting referral for expulsion include theft; possession of another student’s or school property; possession, sale, use or being in the presence of drugs or alcohol; possession of or use of any instrument which may be considered to be a weapon; tampering with protective fire equipment; continual breeches of the school’s discipline code; and any behavior which reflects unfavorably on Urban Prep or threatens the learning environment and well being of the school community. The above-mentioned items are not all inclusive; they are simply a list of offenses that warrant expulsion, any other illegal acts not mentioned in this code may also result in expulsion. The Hearing Officer reserves the right to expel a student. If a student is to be expelled, the following must occur before such action takes place. 1) Parent will be informed in writing of the expulsion. 2) Parent(s) will have 72 hours from the date of the expulsion to appeal the expulsion (in writing) to the President of the Board of Directors. 3) If no appeal is filed, the student is expected to complete the exit process immediately. Students who have been expelled are not allowed to attend any Urban Prep functions, games, dances, etc. The expulsion will be effective from the expulsion date until the end of the following semester after expulsion. Student must reapply to Urban Prep in order to be considered for enrollment in the future.

DISCIPLINE BOARD
If a student is continually uncooperative or if the student commits an offense that warrants expulsion, he will be brought to the Discipline Board for a conference. The school’s CEO acts as Hearing Officer and will govern the hearing. At this time, the student is allowed to present evidence, witnesses and have representation to help support his position.
The Board will hear the student’s side of an issue as well as anything his parents wish to say on the topic. The Board will review and decide upon the case in one of the following ways: expulsion, reinstatement or reinstatement with probation. If a student violates the terms of his Discipline Board mandated probation, he may be expelled immediately. If the student and his parent/guardian fail to appear for a scheduled Discipline Board conference, the Board conference will take place as scheduled with an administrative designee presenting the evidence against the student. The Board will make the final decision in these cases.


http://www.urbanprep.org/userfiles/file/docs/Student%20Handbook%202007-08%20Provisional.pdf

[mopinko]

43. cps high schools are very good at getting rid of kids.

bad teachers, not so much.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. They do a great job of killing them too

http://blogs.uptownlife.net/sonyarose/?p=878

[mopinko]

65. does that have something to do with the schools?

no, it doesn't. yes, this is a big city. shit happens.
would shit like this happen if every school treated kids like the one in the op? i suspect not so much.

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. Don't you read your newspapers?

Arne closed high schools and kids from rival gangs are going to the same school. Result is more violence.

It's happening here too.

As far as the kids in the OP, I worry more about the ones this charter refused to admit or kicked out. That's who I teach :)

[mopinko]

139. charters here have no more right to expel kids than the regular schools.

i have kids that have been in selective enrollment schools, and they do not just chuck kids over their test scores.
and yes, i see how that kid's murder was blamed on the schools. but you have no idea of the demographic shifts that resulted in the school closings. to blame that on schools was a tragic piece of bullshit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

144. Rival gangs are forced into the same school and it's not the school district's fault when they kill

each other?? Come on, you're smarter than that.

Charters here don't kick kids out either. At least that's what they say. The reality is completely opposite. I have an ex charter school kid this year. I called for his records and his teacher at the charter said "He just never fit into our program". Interesting since they are supposedly forbidden to kick kids out. :eyes:

[mopinko]

223. you honestly think that the schools should honor gang boundaries?

honestly?
obviously you do not live in a big city. to quote da ma'ar-"the day the gangs are allowed to determine the boundaries for the schools is the day i give up on the city of chicago." i agree 100+%

[mzteris]

40. not true -

applications are not "gone over". They're sealed and not opened until AFTER it's been selected.

"Cream of the Crop", huh? It was what - FOUR PERCENT that were on reading level? You call that CREAM???

[Lucky Luciano]

80. Anyone who cannot read at grade level is LIGHT YEARS from

being the "Cream of the Crop." 4% of these kids could read at grade level - ergo, they were NOT the cream of the crop.

[proud2BlibKansan]

145. The point is they were selectively chosen by the charter

[mzteris]

204. No. They weren't. LOTTERY

Do I need to define for you how it works AGAIN?

Why are you so unhappy that these boys succeeded?????

Can't you just be frickin' happy for them?????

[Statistical]

119. Cream of the crop? Only 4% could read on their grade level !!!!!!!

Did you even read the article before you started bashing the school and its achievements.

[roguevalley]

147. studies have shown little difference between public schools and

charter, sometimes even slightly less so. when charter schools are run right its a time to celebrate. here are 107 kids on their way. i am sure that the teachers working there work like maniacs to make sure kids catch up. I am sure they taught a butt load of basics before they got into the other stuff.

[AngryAmish]

24. St Mels is still there and on the west side (Garfield Park area)

This is a charter on the south side.

[mopinko]

231. iirc, there was a connection

a former st mel's principal or something. i could be wrong.

[AngryAmish]

235. could be. i dunno.

[Hannah Bell]

123. not according to the results

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. KC schools pretty well debunked that more funding is a primary solution

[Riftaxe]

17. Yet no one seems to remember KC

In my district the average teachers salary is $65,012 with a student teacher ratio of 13:1. Yet for the last 20 years as the budget (and local taxes) sky rockets for buying new non-academic toys for the students (football field, track & field facility, etc) the students test scores have steadily declined.

Like most bureaucracies, the money is hardly ever spent upon the primary mission (in this case academics).

[lutefisk]

19. What district is that?

"the average teachers salary is $65,012"

If that's the average pay, does the number include the value of benefits added to actual pay?

"a student teacher ratio of 13:1"

Does this include licensed employees who don't actually teach (administrators...) or specialists who aren't classroom teachers? If not, that student to teacher ratio would mean that there are classes ranging from, what, 6 to 20 students?

Whenever I hear numbers like this, I just have to ask.:hi:

[Gin]

45. "a student teacher ratio of 13:1".....special ed?

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. More like bullshit

:)

[mzteris]

74. So cynical . . . the claim is true:

XXXXX Regional High School in North XXXXXXXX,XX

XXXXXXXXXXX Regional High School

Information Summary

Spend / Student District average........$7,144
School Size Compared to District............33%
Student Ratio Students per teacher..........13 : 1
Teacher SalaryAverage for district.....$65,012
Students...................................683

School Demographics and Characteristics
School Type Regular school
Grades offered 9th Grade – 12th Grade
Level High School
Teacher FTEs 53.2

Total Students...............696 students
% Male / % Female.............55% / 45%
Total Classroom Teachers......53 teachers
Students by Grade
Grade 9 - 189 students
Grade 10 - 165 students
Grade 11 - 189 students
Grade 12 - 153 students

Surrounding community Rural, Remote Census-defined rural territory that is more than 25 miles from an urbanized area and is also more than 10 miles from an urban cluster.

Title I Eligible No
School-wide Title I N/A
Magnet School N/A
Charter School No
Shared-time School N/A




Not gonna post the name, if the OP of this info wants to, they can. But the info is out there for anyone who cares to look.

[Hannah Bell]

129. in rural new hampshire? population 500? so what?

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:aO1v0ntGMIUJ:www.stateuniversity.com/elmsed/NH/Kearsarge-Regional-High-School-North-Sutton.html+Spend+/+Student+District+average........%247,144&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


no wonder you didn't link.

[surrealAmerican]

30. A well funded district can fail because of poor management ...

... but a poorly funded one can't succeed even if they spend every penny they get wisely.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. What district is that?

I'm movin. I'd love to teach in a district where the average pay is $25,000 more than the national average! And the student teacher ratio is half what it is in every other school district I know of!!

Wow. Please let me know where you live. :woohoo:

[etherealtruth]

42. I wouldn't suggest anyone move to metro-detroit right now ....

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm

The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour.

(this is from 2007)

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. How do you know he was talking about Detroit?

That user has a hidden profile. Do you know him?

And you do understand how they figure those hourly rates I hope. They take the teacher's yearly salary and divide it by the number of hours in a school year when students are present. They leave out teacher lunchtime and all the days the teachers work in the summer plus any days they work when kids are not there plus paid holidays.

My hourly rate is about 4 times what I actually earn, if I figure in all the hours I actually work.

As if your link to a right wing anti-teacher website didn't already alarm anyone reading your post. :eyes:

[etherealtruth]

54. I had no idea the site was right wing ....

Sorry, it simply put all the info from other sites into a quick paragraph. Unfortunately for most American professionals our actual hourly rate calculated into our salaries is based on 2080 hour work year .... The fact that I work a minimum of 60 hours per week (based upon a salary that is based on a 40 hour work week) results in my actual hourly wage being significantly less in reality ... as is the case for most professionals including teachers.


I'm not sure why this appears to have illicited an angry response .... teachers are paid on par with other similarly educated professionals in this area. Why would this alarm anyone?

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. Check out the articles on your site

Teachers are better paid than you think Providence Journal, 02-09-07

The myth of the underpaid teacher Philadelphia Daily News, 02-07-07 (This article also appears in the Centre Daily Times, 02-07-07)

Is $34.06 Per Hour 'Underpaid'? Wall Street Journal, 02-02-07

INTERVIEWS:

How Much Are Teachers Really Paid? FrontPageMag.com, 02-07-07

About Teacher Salaries EdNews.org, 02-02-07

WHAT THE PRESS SAID:

Steve Jobs on Teachers Unions, US News: Barone Blog, 2-22-07

Some facts enlighten discussion of teacher pay, Grand Haven Tribune

Teacher unions dispute study's findings about pay, MetroWest Daily News, MA, 02-08-07

Show me what teachers' raise would buy Iowa, DesMoinesRegister.com, 02-16-07

Measuring a Teacher's Worth, AMERICAN.COM, DC, 02-08-07

It's a right wing teacher bashing site. Sad that I have to point that out to you.

And no, teachers are NOT on par with other similarly educated professionals. I wish. LOL

[etherealtruth]

59. As I said, Sorry

No I didn't read any of the articles. It just put the info into a few lines, so I used it.

I will say this, when I was married and living in Virginia I did learn that teachers were not paid at the rate that they were paid in my home state of Michigan. That came as a sad surprise to me.

My point to my original response was that teacher salaries were very much on par with other similarly educated and experienced professionals in this area .... to me, this is the way it should be. I am sorry if that offends you, but nurses, social workers etc. are no less valuable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. I understand your point

But the claim that teachers are paid as much as other college educated professionals is false.

[etherealtruth]

63. I'm 48, graduated from high school in 1980

After high school "we" all (a good number of us) went to college and earned degrees in nursing, teaching, social work .... we all earned about the same (actually, bless the social workers hearts .... they never really earned as much and still don't). again this was in Metro Detroit .... historically the union jobs with the auto companies paid more than many professional jobs (at the time) ... the salaries of teachers, nurses, etc. were raised to entice people into these fields.

I did learn that in other areas of the country this was not necessarily true. I don't doubt that wages are exactly as you describe them .... but, the wages here are as I describe them .... except that there really aren't any jobs here for teachers, engineers ....

Now, friends that teach/are guidance counselors are losing jobs (jobs they have had for many years) ... and in the Metro Detroit of today the prospects of finding new ones are not good.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. All of my friends from college have always earned more than I do

I graduated from college in 78.

[Hannah Bell]

137. they're citing FrontPage, the david horowitz rag. he's the one trying to purge

the universities of "leftists".

http://frontpagemag.com/

[roguevalley]

149. AFT rules. i was local president, secretary and state secretary

of AFT forever.

Money is almost the least of the problems in teaching. Psycho administration and principals and non-academic leaders with drone school boards are why education sucks.

[tonysam]

81. Manhattan Institute is as right-wing as they come. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

130. bullshit. try the suburbs ringing detroit: e.g. grosse pointe

"State of Michigan statistics show Grosse Pointe Public School teachers are the highest paid in the state."

step 10 = $74-$92K.


but that's a rich white district, so that's -- ok!

http://viewsonschools.com/2010/01/05/teacher-salaries/.

[mzteris]

75. google is your friend . . . n/t

[mzteris]

78. teacher salaries

Average salaries are always changing, but the average teacher salary in the 2006-07 school year was $51,009. It takes teachers about 14 years to reach the average salary level.
Of course, salaries can vary a lot depending on where you teach;some places cost more to live than others.

■ Among state averages in 2006-07, the highest average teacher salary was $63,640, while the lowest was $34,039.
■ The average beginning teacher salary in 2006-07 was $34,229.
■ A few teachers—in some of the highest paying districts in states like California, Michigan, New York and Pennsylvania; and with more than 25 years of experience,
advanced degrees and additional school responsibilities—make over $100,000.

http://www.aft.org/pdfs/tools4teachers/becomingateacher0608.pdf

*****

For a more complete breakdown - albeit from 2007, see: http://archive.aft.org/salary/2007/download/AFT2007SalarySurvey.pdf (bstids won't let you copy/paste!)
short quote: "career teachers in large cities can exceed $90,000 per year (in many school districts, career teachers' salaries exceed $100,000 per year.

Suffice it to say - there are plenty of places that pay $25,000 more than the "average". (See, in order to have an "average" one must have HIGHER salaries as well as LOWER salaries.)

[KittyWampus]

15. the key ingredient you didn't list but inadvertently touched on at start is PARENTS.

Parents who care, are involved and looking for something. Parents who understand the need for discipline.

[EFerrari]

21. And that's the problem, isn't it? How do parents who often work

more than one job just to hold things together show that they "care", in your opinion?

Aren't they showing they care by working to keep a roof over their children's heads and food on the table?

I guess I just don't think PARENTS are the primary problem here. It's true that parents have to be recruited as part of their kid's ed team but simply being an engaged parent is not a cure all.

[etherealtruth]

62. So true

We are all part of the equation. having bright loving, engaged parents give their children an advantage ..... but, kids that don't have that advantage need more (and deserve more) from the other variables. I am at a loss to how we can achieve this :(

[KittyWampus]

98. Both my parents worked full time and yet I still knew what was expected of me and what would happen

if the school called home.

Most parents these days refuse to discipline their kids, back up the teachers and many don't even value education.

[mopinko]

228. no, no, no.

the schools have to do what they can do, completely self contained. this parent crap is a cop out. some have parents who can help them, and some don't. in fact, this why i hate homework. not all parents are helpful. that is just a fact of nature and statistics.
the schools have to make up for the uneven playing field that kids find themselves in. i think almost all parents do their best. but not all can. period.

[kiva]

55. And another addition...

Each student has access to a laptop computer during the school-year. Use of these computers will be an integral part of student's fulfillment of the Urban Prep Arc requirements.

Students have opportunities to participate in academic, professional, and service programs during the summer.

Each Urban Prep student has a Personal Counselor as well as a College Counselor in each of his four years at the school. These counselors will help ensure that each student has the support he needs to reach his full potential.

Adults from the community with significant career achievements and/or unique and inspirational stories will participate in a monthly speaker series for students.

http://www.search.com/reference/Urban_Prep_Charter_Academy_for_Young_Men

I'm glad these young men are succeeding. More importantly, I would argue that many students in public schools, given the above list of assistance, would succeed - maybe even the girls. :P

[rucky]

189. Two big differences with Urban Prep from other charter schools:

1. It's a 501c-3. Non profit organization.

2. It was founded by African Americans in the community.

[mzteris]

209. Not so "big difference"

ALL CHARTERS are NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS!

approximately 10% are MANAGED by a "for profit" management company (EMO). However, EMO's can and do manage some "traditional public schools" as well.

Approximately 12% (of charters) are managed by non-profit management companies (CMO's.)

Nearly 80% of charters are set up and managed by local individuals usually comprised of teachers, parents, and businessmen/women.

There are quite a few AA charter schools. And in the non-self-segregated charter schools - the stats may surprise you...

2008-2009 stats

Charter Schools Metrics& %
White.......... 38.4%
Black.......... 29.7%
Hispanic....... 24.7%
Asian.......... 3.9%
Other.......... 3.3%

Non-Charter schools Metrics
White.......... 53.4%
Black.......... 16.8%
Hispanic....... 22.1%
Asian.......... 4.9%
Other.......... 2.8%

http://www.publiccharters.org/dashboard/students/page/r...



Charter Schools Metrics&
Eligible for Free or Reduced Price Lunch.......... 48.2%
Ineligible for Free or Reduced Price Lunch.......... 51.8%


Non-Charter Schools Metrics&
Eligible for Free or Reduced Price Lunch.......... 45.2%
Ineligible for Free or Reduced Price Lunch.......... 54.8%

[Hannah Bell]

217. "ALL CHARTERS are NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS" = FALSE

more bull from ms. tetris.

[mopinko]

224. public schools are 501's

and they can and do get grants and funding from a lot of sources if they bother-ie- the elementary school that my kids went to had a band, run by an outside organization that charged a fair amount of money. it was a very, very small band. they had a full time music teacher that wanted to run the band. the principal told her that if she could get instruments, she could have the band. she looked around. found the vh1 'share the music' (i think) fund, and applied for a grant. 2 weeks later, she had $30K to buy instruments. she got the band.
that was not a big deal for her. other teachers there have gotten grants for lots of things.
they can. they do.

[stray cat]

9. Putting kids first

[ecstatic]

10. Wonderful

I used to be against charter schools and anything that mirrored using public funds for private schooling, I still am-- but I'm at the point now where I'd rather see some people make it out these shitty schools on top. Maybe when they finish college, they can come back and find unique solutions to improve the situation for EVERYBODY. Until that happens, good for those who make it out.

[KittyWampus]

14. OMG! They're wearing "uniforms". Oh, and it's a charter school.

Couldn't help the sarcasm.

Congratulations to these young people. Hope they keep going and inspire another round of youngsters.

Getting through college is another kettle of fish. Hope they have mentors.

[Hannah Bell]

198. and -- omg!! only 15% of them met state standards last year.

even with a lower % low-income students & esl students, and smaller classrooms, than the chicago public schools.

about 30% of students district-wide met standards; with a higher percent of low income students & esl students, larger classrooms, & less per-pupil-funding.

[Better Today]

16. I would like to point out that 107 students per graduating class is

REALLY small, we have over 800 in a NE San Antonio (well to do district) school back in the 70's. Unless this charter school maintained the 30-35 students per class, and 6 classes a day per teacher. . . well it may not be the charter-ness of it, it may be the manageable class sizes, individually and collectively.

[druidity33]

76. Senior class size... 1,502 students.

Long Island, late '80s...

I was a blur in the crowd. On the plus side, i got to take Photography, Architecture, and CAD. Big District, lotsa money, GREAT facilities, classes were still around 30 people, but it was alright.

I agree. 107 is a pretty small Senior Class.


:shrug:

[Orlandodem]

20. Time out! I read the Year In Review for Urban Prep for 2008-2009. It said 12% of its students

passed the college readiness test. Can someone explain what is so great about this? Maybe I'm missing something.

http://www.urbanprep.org/about/pdf/Urban_Prep_Year_In_Review_2008_to_2009.pdf

[Orlandodem]

23. No takers? Anyone? Bueller? Why is it that 12% passing on a college readiness reading test is

something to celebrate?

[readmoreoften]

33. Because blue dogs are ready to gobble up any propaganda, however unrepresentative or skewed, to

make anything the dem POTUS supports look reasonable. Even when these schools are successful, they don't solve the problem. They simply take the best, brightest, and best off out of public education and leave students with home problems and disabilities to the publics (then they diss on the publics). Privatize the whole system and what you'll get is youth work camps for the poorest, ESL students, and so forth. There is nothing that deregulation, profiteering, and union busting can do to help education. Using its problems and challenges is just an excuse to privatize.

[mzteris]

85. 4% on reading level is cream of the crop?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Statistical]

120. +1. If anything these were mostly poorly performing students.

It just shows you what kids even "poorly performing" ones can accomplish when give a fighting chance and sense of purpose, responsibility and pride.

[Hannah Bell]

174. and still are, apparently. only 15% met state standards last year.

despite smaller classes, more school time, uniforms, more funding, lower percent of low-income students than chicago schools as a whole, etc.

success!! they got into college!!

but one has to ask: on what basis did they get into college, when 85% of them didn't meet state standards last year?

last year 30% of chicago students met standards, district-wide.

[Hannah Bell]

172. & this academy brought it up to 24% by 11th grade! success!!

heck, a lot more kids would be in college if they'd admit at that level.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. And a year later they got all of their kids into college!!

Wow. Maybe they used magic smart dust.

[Gin]

46. do we also have charter colleges?

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. We're gonna need them

[mzteris]

87. I think pretty much all public colleges are, aren't they?

Think about it . . .

[mzteris]

88. One's going to Northwestern

one was accepted to 13 Colleges. . .

http://www.vimeo.com/10098605

[mzteris]

89. college info for them:

http://www.vimeo.com/10098605

At last count, the 107 seniors gained acceptance to a total of 72 different colleges, including Northwestern University, Morehouse College, Howard University, Rutgers University and University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana. Alexander was accepted to DePaul University. http://www.urbanprep.org/media/Tribune_Mar2010.pdf

[mzteris]

86. Wow. Maybe they had good teachers!!! n/t

[Hannah Bell]

216. if teachers were so good, why did only 15% of students meet state standards in the third year?

[mopinko]

71. ok, my bad

i found it.

so how did those kids get into college? well, there is a large city college system here that has open enrollment, and very affordable. probably a lot of them went there. there are lots of other open enrollment schools around here.
test scores are not infallible predictors of college success. i think these kids had the things that don't show up on tests.

[Critters2]

79. Yeah. According to the Trib, they had below average ACT scores, too.

Not sure why colleges are accepting them, or which colleges are, but the school still has a lot of work to do.

[mzteris]

210. the test scores referred to

is not "just Seniors". Probably all juniors took it, and maybe even sophomores & freshmen. Yes, you can - (and should) take the SAT/ACT more than once.

[mzteris]

84. comparatively speaking . . .

On average, 12% of our students met the college readiness benchmark in reading and 36% met the benchmark in English, compared to zero and 6% respectively for boys at the neighborhood school.

And considering where they were when they enrolled:

the class of 2010. Only 4% of that class entered Urban Prep reading at grade level. The class of 2011 came to us slightly better prepared, but still in need of significant remediation with only 11% of those young men entering high school reading at grade level. The class of 2012 entered Urban Prep as the highest performing class to date, with 20% of its students entering freshman year reading at grade level.

[Hannah Bell]

169. nothing's great about it. only 15% of this very class met state standards last year,

while 30% of all chicago public school students did.

& this school actually enrolls 5% fewer low-income students than the chicago public schools -- & no esl students.

but they all got into college.

maybe we should just offer free college to anyone who makes it through high school.

i bet that would raise graduation rates, too.

but, you know, the 10% of students who dropped out or transferred from this school every year weren't figured into that 100% graduation thingee.

[soleiri]

22. I just looked at their donor list

Wouldn't it be nice if public schools were funding like this?

[Odin2005]

26. I know all be flamed for saying this, but school uniforms are Fascist.

I have no problem with a strict dress code, but uniforms are just wrong.

[proteus_lives]

32. Why are they fascist?

I wore school uniforms for close to three years, didn't make me want to start goose-stepping.

Explain please.

[Odin2005]

90. They help create an atmosphere of conformity.

[depakid]

97. That would be news to Aussie kids...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vkMoudRJuGM/Sp177HkruuI/AAAAAAAABdI/oPFur9SQVQM/s400/imms+kids.jpg

[roguevalley]

150. they take a lot of crap out of the equation. poor kids are equal to

rich ones and the gang crap is left out. give me a uniform over a brawl in the corridor. You have to be a teacher I guess.

[proteus_lives]

158. I don't agree.

They are successful in many schools and countries.

Teams wear matching clothes, so do many professions. It's not necessarily a bad thing.

Clothing doesn't equal thought.

[MicaelS]

38. Disagree.....

We all know how peer pressure can cause children / adolescents / teenagers to act in negative ways. Uniforms keep some children from becoming social outcasts simply because they don't, or can't afford to wear the latest fashion. Uniforms remove the pressure to conform to current fashions, which can and do change over night.

Uniforms remove the monetary pressure on families to keep their children from begging for the latest and coolest thing. Uniforms remove the monetary pressure on families by allowing uniforms to be bought at a discount rate since large quantities are being purchased from suppliers.

And the "uniforms" are little more than an adult would be required to wear in a professional, that is an adult environment. An important lesson for sub-adults to learn is almost every business has some sort of dress code. You can't wear sloppy sweats, or t-shirts and torn jeans hanging off your ass in most business environments, especially if preparing and serving food is involved.

[Odin2005]

91. The kids will just find another way to outcast the "uncool" kids.

[anonymous171]

103. Yes, but they would not outcast eachother just because they couldn't afford expensive clothing

I don't care how they form their little cliques as long as they do not do it based on social class.

[Odin2005]

108. They will find a way to do it based on social class anyway.

The cause (income inequality) needs to be dealt with.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. They solved a lot of problems in our district

We had kids who were being mugged for their Starter jackets as they stood at the bus stop in the morning. It was a gang initiation. So the school board banned Starter coats and put all the kids in uniforms. Gang violence at school went way down.

[anonymous171]

61. Describe for me one SUBSTANTIVE difference between a school uniform policy and a "strict" dress code

And please elaborate on how school uniform policies are more fascist than strict dress codes?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

73. Strict dress codes have found to be "uniforms" in CA, and public school parents may waiver out of

school uniforms.

Not saying its good or bad, but it is the law in CA

[Odin2005]

92. You can have a strict dress code without requiring everyone to wear the same thing.

just require solid-color clothes with no logos and blue jeans or khakis.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

121. May be not in California

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/california-judge-strikes-school-dress-code-banned-winnie-pooh-socks

If the code it too strict, its considered a uniform and parents can opt out under CA law.

[tranche]

99. A lot of these kids probably have after school jobs that require a uniform.

I know I did, and I sure didn't feel as if it was fascist or that my creativity or rights were somehow repressed. I think we're wasting our time with stands like this.

[Odin2005]

100. So we shoudl teach our kids to be loyal underlings of The Man?

Generally I am against uniforms unless needed to distinguish employees from customers in a store or restaurant, or in a setting where it is really dirty or dangerous and you have a special uniform for the situation. Uniforms in an office setting are just unnecessary. That's not to say it's OK to look like a slob of course, it isn't, but what's wrong with khakis and polo shirts in the office? why the (uncomfortable) suit and tie?

[tranche]

202. You're just out there. When I was a kid, I thought freedom was somehow tied to what I wore.

I'm old enough now to know that taking a stand on khakis and a polo shirt are a waste of time. Uniforms for school kids (that's what we were talking about) is no longer a problem for me. They'll survive.

[Hippo_Tron]

225. If uniforms get kids to take learning more seriously then I'm all for them

And by that I mean, if somebody can show me some studies from respected peer reviewed journals showing that uniforms get kids to learn better. Otherwise I'm pretty much indifferent on the issue.

Also, I think teachers and administrators should have to adhere to a strict dress code that is at least if not more formal than the uniform.

[mopinko]

232. when i had to wear them, i thought the same. when my kids had to

i still pretty much thought the same. the public schools idea of a uniform is pretty loose, tho.
i don'd find them so much fascist as i do just tribal. it is a signal about the group having an identity that transcends the individual. and i think kids need belonging. so, i guess it depends a little on what the uniforms are. a white shirt and black pants vs say, marine dress uniform, shiny buttons and all. i think those 2 things send a very different message.

[EFerrari]

27. This story stinks to heaven.

I don't have time to do this now but will look into it this evening.

And, congratulations to the successful students at this school.

[hayu_lol]

29. They have taken the Japanese model a bit further...

students in middle school in Japan take an entrance exam for the high school they want to attend. If they pass the exam, the score will enter them to the school of choice. There are many different levels of high schools over there just as there are for colleges and universities. Exam scores eliminate the unfit from the best schools.

Maybe it is time to examine 'firing' students who do not do the work. Fire the students who refuse to be orderly. Students who refuse to complete assignments or who disrupt the class/school.

Then, maybe, just maybe, teachers could spend their time teaching instead of being traffic cops and/or judge and jury.

Kids don't measure up--out they go. Uniform clothing would probably help in today's world.

[EFerrari]

31. Well, no.

Given that this is a deeply racist country in the throes of bilking the working and middle class for all they're worth, that's an unbelievably bad suggestion.

[Hippo_Tron]

226. Those with means already send their kids to private school

What we're talking about is giving more opportunity to those in the working and middle classes who are willing to learn.

[Fumesucker]

34. Kids, if you don't measure up and cut the mustard we're going to shitcan you..

You worthless lowlife scumsucking maggots.

Better get ready now for the corporate world where you're only as good as the last ass you kissed.

Perhaps we should just send them straight to the privatized corporate prisons they're going to end up in anyway, why bother with people that aren't going to get with the program?

No one who didn't do well in school will ever succeed and be worthy of living in the United Corporate States of America anyway.

[The Midway Rebel]

58. Firing the students?

Great idea. I wonder why the public schools do not consider this brilliant idea. Oh wait. They don't because it is illegal and they would be sued.

You are correct though. It is a business model in the extreme. This is not education. This is Soviet style student tracking.

Uniforms, strict discipline? Why don't we just send everybody to a military school?

[Odin2005]

94. East Asian model = all rote learning, no critical thinking.

No thanks. I'd rather teach kids to use their own brain instead of force-feeding them knowledge by rote. Education is supposed to be more than mere "training".

[knitter4democracy]

151. I teach those "fired" students. They're good kids.

Sometimes even we have to kick them out of class, but they learn after a time or two, and almost all of them change their behavior and find a way to be successful. I teach in an alternative high school, a charter school run by our local school district, and we have amazing success with kids the area public and private schools have given up on. We're getting our latest crop of seniors set with scholarship money for college (most are going to the local community college, but hey, it's cheaper and a good way to get them used to college-level work first).

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. There was a charter here who graduated 100% of their seniors

There were 3 in the class. :)

I just looked them up. Last year they also graduated 100%. There were 13 in the class.

[mzteris]

93. they are a specialized charter restricted to

a special population of children who have an open file with the local Mental Health Center???



Nice try, but no cigar.

[WolverineDG]

39. Oh look at those poor kids forced to wear uniforms

who gives a damn about their academic achievement when that school is oppressing their freedom to express themselves by wearing baggy pants & flaunting their underwear! :cry:

:sarcasm:

Congratulations to the students of this school! Best of luck to you in the future! :)

dg

[Liberal_in_LA]

44. great story

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. What is their dropout rate?

How many kids were in this class in 9th grade? Now compare that number to the number of kids from that class who actually graduated from this school.

That means you have to kick out the ones who were expelled. And the ones who moved away. And the ones who transferred to a different high school. And the ones who were deported.

When you have that number come back and report to us.

[mzteris]

95. Fewer than 10

from this particular class . . .


The rigorous academic environment and strict uniform policy of black blazers, red ties and khakis isn’t for everyone. The first senior class began with 150 students. Of those who left, many moved out of the area and some moved into neighborhoods that were too dangerous to cross to get to the school, King said. Fewer than 10 were expelled or dropped out, he said. http://www.urbanprep.org/media/Tribune_Mar2010.pdf

[anonymous171]

57. Of course. Charter schools actually have money.

If our public schools had the same budgets (and practices, including the uniforms) we would probably see the same results.

[mopinko]

66. they get the same money as every other school.

that's the way charters work here.
and many of the public schools in chicago have uniforms.

[noamnety]

68. That's how it works here, too.

I guess there are corporate grants (bill gates, office depot, etc) for all sorts of schools, but the funding for us is all public, and in fact we get less than surrounding traditional schools because they can raise taxes through millages, which charters don't have access to.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. Don't forget about the donors!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7908432&mesg_id=7909398

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. If we could kick kids out who are disruptive we could work miracles

Charters have the luxury of selective admission and expulsion if you don't abide by the rules.

[Odin2005]

96. Exactly, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Same applies to kids learning, you can't learn unless you WANT to learn and so many students just don't care. Unfortunately learning is no longer valued in our society and disruptive kids are defended by their self-righteous parents that refuse to believe that their "little angel" is a disruptive ass.

[mzteris]

106. I think one of the differences at this

particular school is the degree to which they supported and encouraged and provided with role models and examples to follow.

People tend to live up - or down - to your expectations. In tradtional schools, these guys were already written off. At this school, they're EXPECTED to succeed. No excuses. I think it's wonderful thing.

While the atmosphere of that school isn't one *I* would choose for myself of my kids at this point, isn't it great that people can find the environment in which they CAN succeed??

More options, more models.

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. "I just don't like Mondays"

That's what a little darling said to me yesterday when I asked him why he was gone almost every Monday since January.

Now please tell me how I am supposed to teach a kid who isn't even at school???

[Odin2005]

113. Exactly.

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. A charter would kick him out for bringing their attendance down

That is if they admitted him in the first place. He's special ed :)

[mzteris]

117. Charters do accept Sped..

from this school's handbook:

PROCEDURAL GUIDE FOR STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES
Students with disabilities are expected to follow all schools rules. Urban Prep may suspend students with disabilities and cease educational services for a total of up to 10 consecutive or 10 cumulative school days in one school year without providing special education services. Saturday, and before-and-after school detentions do not count toward the 10-day limit. Additionally, as long as students with disabilities are being provided with special education services, in-school suspensions do not count towards the 10-day limit. The Vice President has the discretion to be flexible in the amount of days of suspension given to special education students with disabilities. Students with disabilities can be suspended in excess of 10 school days in certain circumstances. In order to suspend a student with a disability in excess of 10 school days, the Office of Due Process and Mediation at [phone] MUST first be consulted for approval. When school officials anticipate a referral for expulsion the following apply:
1. Provide written notice to the parent/guardian or surrogate parent of the intervention or consequence being considered and the date of an Individualized Education Program (IEP) meeting, which must be held within 10 days of the date of the decision to discipline the student.
2. The IEP team must:
A. Determine whether the misconduct is related to the student’s disability by reviewing evaluation and diagnostic results, information from the parent/guardian, observation of the student, and the student’s IEP and placement. The behavior is not a manifestation of the student’s disability if:
1) the student was given appropriate special education supplementary aids and intervention strategies; and
2) the disability does not impair the ability to control behavior.
B. Review and revise, if necessary, the behavior intervention plan or, as necessary, develop a functional behavior assessment and intervention plan to address the misconduct.
C. Determine the appropriateness of an interim alternative educational setting, and as indicated, include in the IEP those services and modifications that will enable the student to continue to participate in the general curriculum and address the behavior so that it will not recur.
If the student’s behavior is not a manifestation of the disability, school officials may apply the Urban Prep Code of Conduct, taking into consideration the student’s special education and disciplinary records. In no event, however, may the student be suspended for more than 10 consecutive or cumulative school days in a school year. without providing appropriate educational services.
If the student’s behavior is a manifestation of the disability, the student’s placement may be changed to an appropriate interim educational setting, if the student carried a weapon to school or a school function or knowingly possessed or used illegal drugs or sold or solicited the sale of a controlled substance while at school or at a school function.
Special education students with disabilities may be placed in an alternative school on an interim basis for a maximum of 45 school days, even in instances where the student’s misconduct is ultimately determined to be a manifestation of his disability.
Special education students with disabilities may be referred for expulsion when in possession of firearms or destructive devices, large amounts of drugs, for inflicting serious bodily injury on someone, or for using a weapon or other object to inflict bodily harm on someone. The parent or legal guardian may request a due process hearing to challenge the expulsion.
For special education students with disabilities whose misconduct presents a danger to themselves or others in a manner other than those specified above, please consult with the Office of Due Process and Mediation, as the Chief Executive Officer may request a hearing officer order a 45-day emergency alternativeplacement.
New Federal regulations offer some flexibility in suspending students with disabilities in excess of 10 school days in the school year in certain circumstances. In order to determine whether the circumstances permit a suspension in excess of 10 days per school year, consultation by the school with the Office of Due Process and Remediation (773-553-1905) is absolutely necessary. Without such consultation and approval from the Department, the current procedures limiting suspensions for disabled students to 10 school days in a school year will continue to apply.

http://www.urbanprep.org/userfiles/file/docs/Student%20Handbook%202007-08%20Provisional.pdf

[mzteris]

116. one of the parents is probably hung-over

from the weekend.

[mzteris]

102. they "kicked out" less than TEN

from this class.

Charters don't do "selective admission" and don't practice expulsion willynilly. If you'd just try and find out the truth instead of repeating obvious mispresentations over and over and over again . . . well - maybe we could all get somewhere in moving the debate FORWARD in how to best help our children succeed. Which is SUPPOSED to be the POINT, RIGHT? Not, my XXX is better than your xxx... jeesh.

[Hannah Bell]

182. WRONG, for the second time: In 2008-2009 ALONE, TEN PERCENT dropped out or transferred.

why do you keep repeating absolute misinformation?

their own report, page 175.


Transfer-out rate: 6.1%
Dropout rate: 4%


http://www.ren2010.cps.k12.il.us/docs/ONS_PerfReport.pdf


The only way to sell charter schools as some general improvement on public schools is, quite honestly, to misstate the facts.

[mzteris]

101. funding

Student Funding
• Charters may receive as little as 75 percent of conventional public school funding.

• Per pupil funding is negotiated with the district and specified in the charter.

• Funds pass through the district.

• Average per pupil revenue - $6,879

"Except for a charter school established by referendum under Section 27A-6.5 <105 ILCS 5/27A-6.5>, as part of a charter school contract, the charter school and the local school board shall agree on funding and any services to be provided by the school district to the charter school. Agreed funding that a charter school is to receive from the local school board for a school year shall be paid in equal quarterly installments with the payment of the installment for the first quarter being made not later than July 1, unless the charter establishes a different payment schedule…In no event shall the funding be less than 75% or more than 125% of the school district's per capita student tuition multiplied by the number of students residing in the district who are enrolled in the charter school." <105 ILCS 5/27A-11(b)>

Facilities Funding..........None.

http://www.charterschoolresearch.com/laws/illinois.htm

[Hannah Bell]

183. once again, mz tetris sources walmart-funded astroturf "research" to make her case:

In addition to spending on Republican candidates, the Waltons have lavished funds on right-wing ideological institutions--organizations that serve the interest of wealthy individuals and lawless antiunion companies like Wal-Mart.

From 1998 through 2003 the WFF contributed $25,000 to the Heritage Foundation, $15,000 to the Cato Institute, $125,000 to the Hudson Institute, $155,000 to the Goldwater Institute, $70,000 to the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, $300,000 to the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, $185,000 to the Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy and $350,000 to the Evergreen Freedom Foundation.

Both the family and the company have made education a major funding priority. Many of the WFF's education gifts have a distinct ideological tilt, emphasizing a "free market" approach to education reform, a vision the late John Walton embraced with particular enthusiasm.

The WFF funds advocacy groups promoting conservative school "reform"--otherwise known as privatization--like the CENTER FOR EDUCATION REFORM and the Black Alliance for Educational Options, as well as the actual programs these groups champion: charter schools and voucher programs.

http://www.ncrp.org/news-room/news-2005/389-on-the-wal-mart-money-trail.

[Number23]

72. I wish these kids all of the very best. They are definitely on their way

And I love that grants and scholarships from the community has been raised to help these kids pay for college.

[ibegurpard]

77. So when did the Democratic Party decide that privatization of public education

was a good idea?

[tonysam]

82. When Obama and Duncan started pushing it.

It's unbelievable anybody supports this crap which ultimately undermines our democracy.

[mzteris]

127. I think democracy and CHOICE

go hand-in-hand.

[JI7]

83. ONLY 107 SENIORS ?

this school is not open to all if they only have 107 . especially considering they are in an area with a large population.

good for the kids. i'm sure they worked hard and deserve what they are getting.

but the whole thing is misleading.

[mzteris]

104. it's open to ANY who apply

if more apply than they have slots for, then students are admitted by blind selection - NO "prescreening" of applicants.

Why is it "misleading"? They took some severe "at-risk" students and improved their education to the point they are now going to college. How many of those 96% reading BELOW grade level in 9th grade do you think would be going to college now if they had attended their "regular" school?

[The Midway Rebel]

112. Except female students. n/t

[mzteris]

115. all-boy/all-girl schools have been successful

if they are, then why not?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

122. People here have forgotten that charters schools were invented by educators

as experiments and incubators for new and better ways to teach students. While its clear that goal has been lost in many cases with for profits etc, this seems to be a case where several different approaches were taken (longer hours, dress code, single gender) and it has born fruit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

124. And abandoned by those same educators

Let's tell the WHOLE story, not just part of it.

[mzteris]

126. well then tell the WHOLE story -

give up the examples of these horrible places. The ones still in business. Cause, you know, one of the great things about charters is, if you're not a good one, you're soon gone.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

128. Not at all..

You and I have gone around on this before.

There are a number of educators who were part of the original charter movement who still believe that the concept has promise. However, they (and I) freely admit the charter term has been taken over by non-educators with dramatically different agendas. Many still think that a charter like format can be a good forum to test and evaluate different approaches with willing participants. However, that is not what the vast majority of charter schools are doing today.

[proud2BlibKansan]

132. Which educators?

[mzteris]

125. Very true. BUT . . .

I am curious, though. Could you provide me with some of the names/links of charters that lost that vision?

Also, using the term "for profit " is a bit misleading. Even IF a school is managed by "for-profit" the school itself is still non-profit. Additionally, approximately only
TEN PERCENT (10%) of charters are managed by "for profit" management companies (EMO's). Did you know that some traditional public schools are also managed by EMO's? There are a number of charters managed by CMO's - non-profit management organizations.

The vast majority of charters are founded and managed by local teachers, parents, and businessmen/women.

[Hannah Bell]

142. oh, it's "misleading" to call them for-profit schools when they're managed by for-profit orgs?

in what universe, ms. charter-school-stats-R-us?

since you get your stats from charter school promotion orgs, & since *no one's* collecting national stats (lots of charter schools don't even have to *report*), your stats mean about as much to me as the commercials from walmart's PR machine -- which is where a lot of the stuff you post comes from.

"the vast majority" -- bullshit. not in terms of students served.

[mopinko]

233. there is also an excellent all girls charter

choice. that is the point.

[mzteris]

107. it's really SAD when people on DU

can't be happy for these guys and celebrate their success, just because it contradicts their POV's.

I wonder if it's mostly the anti-charter people hating on the school? The anti-Arne Duncan people lamenting their success?

Or quite frankly, I wonder if there is something else in play that is making them moan and gnash their teeth so much. . . :cry:

[anonymous171]

109. I dislike elitist anti-democratic institutions.

Sorry.

[mzteris]

118. ooooooooooooo the "elitist argument"

uh - 4% on grade level reading - some "elitists" that.

You obviously have bought the crap about charter public schools posted by some. They are PUBLIC, they are open to all (with of course certain exceptions the same as traditional schools - for ex: a spanish immersion school has set aside space for native spanish speakers. . . etc)

If you really look at the demographics, charter public schools are serving the needs of a whole damn lot of minority students who were not being served in their traditional schools and are succeeding now in their new setting.

[anonymous171]

131. They aren't public. They are privately owned and operated. nt

[mzteris]

133. They are PUBLIC schools

meaning -they are free of charge to those who attend.

All charter schools are non-profit. Appx 10% are MANAGED by a for-profit company called an EMO. EMO's also manager traditional public schools. Did you know that? Another 12ish % are run by Charter Management Organizations - also non-profit. Nearly 80% are run by local non-profit organizations consisting of former teachers, parents, former students, and local businessmen/women, etc.

[anonymous171]

134. That's not what public means. nt

[mzteris]

135. please enlighten me. . .

According to the definition of charter schools at the federal and every single state that has them - you will read : "Charter schools are PUBLIC schools".

Under freedictionary:

n: public school
An elementary or secondary school in the United States supported by public funds and providing free education for children of a community or district.

adj: public
. Of, concerning, or affecting the community or the people: the public good.
. Maintained for or used by the people or community: a public park.
. Participated in or attended by the people or community: "Opinions are formed in a process of open discussion and public debate" (Hannah Arendt).
. Connected with or acting on behalf of the people, community, or government: public office.
. Enrolled in or attending a public school: transit passes for public students.
. Open to the knowledge or judgment of all: a public scandal.

n.
. The community or the people as a whole.
. A group of people sharing a common interest: the reading public.
. Admirers or followers, especially of a famous person. See Usage Note at collective noun.

[Hannah Bell]

138. lol. you're a riot.

[mzteris]

141. as usual

some people keep moving their mouths and nothing comes out. . . . :rofl:

:hi: iggy :hi:

[Hannah Bell]

161. & some people move them but only bullshit comes out

[mzteris]

168. ah - so nice to know

I'm loved. . . and you don't even have to say a thing!

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

184. you got me on ignore so you don't have to respond when i point out how you're spewing

misinformation.

whatever, lady. i'll keep pointing it out.


your little roly thing is infantile, btw.

[mzteris]

203. aren't you cute -

just like a little puppy following me around. . .

I feel soooooooooooo special! :loveya:

[anonymous171]

153. Connected with or acting on behalf of the people, community, or government

I will say again, charter schools are privately owned and operated. You cannot escape that one fact no matter how hard you try to twist the definitions to fit your agenda.

[mzteris]

154. They ARE acting on behalf of the people, community, and

government.

What about that don't you understand? Just because you don't ACCEPT the fact doesn't mean it's not a FACT!

No twisting at all. Not even squinting. Charter schools are - by every definition - PUBLIC schools!

[anonymous171]

155. Are they under control of state or local government?

[mzteris]

156. they are held accountable by the govt, yes.

and must meet the same standards that the traditional schools do.

[anonymous171]

157. Held accountable by government =/= under control of government

Charter Schools are not public schools. They are private schools that are, through subsidy, made open to the public.

[mzteris]

159. no - they are public schools.

I cannot for the life of me understand why some of you people are having such a hard time with this. by every single definition anywhere and everywhere CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Period. No if's and's or but's about it.

I'm sorry if you all don't understand the English language, or contracts - but this is just damned ridiculous.

OK - we get that you don't LIKE CHARTERS! But for gfs - at least argue about something that has SOME meaning and merit.

Or is that the problem? You have nothing concrete so this whole bogus argument that Charters aren't public is all you've got? hooooooooookay then.

[anonymous171]

162. Public Control is what makes something public, not just public access. nt

[Hannah Bell]

165. [phone].

[mzteris]

167. While I disagree with your "interpretation" -

I think it's completely false .

There is "public control" - they are subject to the same standards as traditional public schools.


Let's put it this way and then I'm done with this stupid argument with you:

In a court of law if you tried to sue by claiming they were not public schools, you'd lose.

[mopinko]

234. they are "chartered" by the state of illinois.

they exist completely under the states control. they are more directly controlled by the state than the common schools, which have many layers of bureaucracy. and they must have their charter reviewed by parents and community every 4 years, vs common schools which have their existence reviewed every, um, NEVER.

[izzybeans]

236. CPS has final say on all Charters schools in Chicago.

Like it or not, they are part of the public school system here in Chicago.

We can play semantics all day; however, taxpayer (thus public) funds are used to educate these children.

Our Charters operate in the same way as magnet schools do in CPS on an open lottery system. You fill out one application, photocopy it, and mail it to any school you hope your children will get into. Some charters are part of this process some not (for reasons I do not understand). I was thankful to have the choice between four schools for my child. One charter, one performing arts magnet, one science magnet, and our neighborhood school. Truthfully, I'm thankful for that choice. We were able to put my son in an all day Kindergarten at a charter school and then move him to the performing arts magnet in 1rst grade (which only has 1/2 day kindergarten). Of course we had to apply to about 15 schools to make this happen.

Personally, I do not think that Charters are necessary; however, school reformers hit a brick wall when they ran up against district bureaucracy. Because of that, these management companies have stepped into the breach. Something must be done to bust up the bureaucracy, make it more accountable to the schools, teachers, students, etc. Either we grab a hold of the reins of this movement and guide it towards a productive path, or we piss and moan about it from the sidelines. Either way these things are happening.

Chicago has much left to be desired in terms of education, but the structural adjustments they have made as a public school system are pretty innovative and aren't the scary bogeymen that some people claim they are. We can quibble over the numbers in relation to this school, but the simple fact of the matter is that many of these kids are going to college (some will likely never enroll). The question for them is now what? Are they going to get into student loan debt? Will they drop out for menial work when this debt becomes too large? etc.

Our problems do not begin or end with the charter movement. From early childhood education to post-graduate programs, our system is completely dysfunctional.

107 children accepted to college from that part of our city is most likely nearly 100 students more than would have otherwise been. But now what? The dropout rates of colleges are just as problematic as our high schools.

[Hannah Bell]

237. public money is the only thing public about them.

[izzybeans]

239. Reality has many nuances,

but please continue.

Like I said we can debate the semantics of publics for hours. It's a great exercise, actually, for a graduate student seminar. Generally, people conflate "government control" for public, which is part of the public, but not the entire spectrum of public institutions or even the entire range of government functions. It harkens back to the cold war where "public vs. private" became to mean "planned economy" vs. "free market", which is nonsensical. Markets are public institutions because they involve the planned meeting of strangers, which is why they can and should be regulated.

Schools are still public institutions even when they aren't controlled by the government, which is why they can and should be regulated. The question we need to answer is whether education is better run through mechanisms of civil society or through the uncivil market, which still stands a chance of being civilized if it were ever to become democratized via forms of public ownership (like the stockmarket but geared towards the real stakeholders in firms ->workers).

Imagine the teachers union founding their own charter schools. You know...worker's guilds owning the means of production. This whole public vs. private talk is irrelevant to the fact that under both (government vs. corporate control) models teachers are still political pawns with very little control over their work.

[mzteris]

240. lots of charters are teacher led

That was the "original intent".

The thing that really annoys me about some of the "teachers" on DU - the very things they dislike about their own schools are - usually - improved upon in Charters. The changes, the innovation, the personal control - it's all there. So for the life of me I don't get why they're so hostile! Maybe it's jealousy that they're "stuck" where they are. Maybe they really don't KNOW the whole picture of Charters, but developed a knee-jerk "i hate charter" mentality so every facet is viewed throw a skewed prism of rejection.


BTW - I like your style. :hi:

[Hannah Bell]

243. the thing that annoys me about some charter promoters is their dishonesty.

there's no evidence, none, zero, zilch, that charters, on average, do anything better than the public schools.

[Hannah Bell]

242. blah, blah, blah. they're not public.

[Hannah Bell]

136. "they are from one of the toughest neighborhoods on the South Side of Chicago."

like i said the first time this story was put up: wrong. only 12% of students are from that neighborhood. the school recruits from all over chicago.

also: the story neglects to mention the dropout/transfer rates during that 4-year period (linked the first time this was put up).

also: additional funding.


& i don't for a moment believe that 4% reading at grade level number. that's lower than equivalent public schools.

[Hannah Bell]

143. urban prep reportedly had 18% students with disabilities, i.e. special ed. were those students

accepted to uni as well? if not, what happened to them?

if so, what kind of special ed students were they?

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:98u0id1-51QJ:www.cps.edu/Schools/Pages/school.aspx%3Funit%3D8096+%22urban+prep%22+chicago+%22special+education%22&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us



Per the Chicago Public School's Office of New Schools 2006-2007 Charter School Performance Report, Urban Prep had a yearly combined transfer and drop out rate of 13.8% with most of these students transferring.


So every year about 13.8% of the school went elsewhere.

[boppers]

170. Some charters work better than public education.

Rather than learn from that simple fact, people rail against charters...

I'm definitely on the Obama side, here. If public education isn't working, and alternatives are better at education, then we need to make changes.

[Hannah Bell]

171. not this one, though. only 15% of 11th graders last year (this class)

met state standards.

v. 30% in the chicago schools district-wide.

[boppers]

175. So, they're below lines for state standards, but getting into college?

Am I understanding that right?

[Hannah Bell]

179. yep. look it up for yourself. p 174-175

http://www.ren2010.cps.k12.il.us/docs/ONS_PerfReport.pdf

PSAE composite — percentage of students meeting/exceeding state standards

15.3% (Evaluated "Low")

[Hannah Bell]

185. yeah, i figured you wouldn't get back to this. this story about how 100%

got into college is a big FRAUD.

they got into college all right. but some of them, at least, didn't get in for academics. not into the top-ranked schools they're reported as having been accepted by.

i'm going to say it: some of them got in because the connected CEO-founder of this school PULLED STRINGS.

[boppers]

192. I got back to this. :)

100% acceptance doesn't mean 100% are at grade level.

So, how many kids accepted into college are at grade level?

From the papers I've seen, it's not good.

[Hannah Bell]

193. how many accepted into top 50 schools are at grade level, why don't you ask.

cause those are the schools those kids got into.

good for them, but don't pretend it had anything to do with their academic performance, or their charter school -- except for its CEO's string-pulling, that is.

[JCMach1]

187. Also, many schools have alternative programs for admission

Admission doesn't equal success. Almost anyone with a pulse can initially get into college somewhere.

[The Midway Rebel]

191. Absolutely true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upward_Bound

Technically, all of the students in these types of programs have been "admitted" to a college . It does not indicate they will survive the first full-time semester.

I am not knocking this particular program in anyway. I loved teaching for it. Sadly, 80% of my students, although exceptionally bright, were not even close to success or even survival at the full-time university level.

I'd like to see where some of my students are today.

[Hannah Bell]

194. a large percent got into *northwestern*, rated somewhere between 11th in the nation & 30th.

it helps to have northwestern people on the board of this school.

[JCMach1]

195. I don't want people to think I am against that either... honestly, if these kids 'get' a chance

I am all for it however that might happen. There is always a bit of BS factor in admissions anyway (speaking as a Univ. Administrator!)

A school that is proactive with advising and compelling students to apply is, frankly, a good thing.



However, someone should do a follow-up story in 12-24 months.

[Hannah Bell]

199. i have no problem with them getting into harvard.

i have a problem with this phoney story that leaves the impression they were all doing outstanding academic work.

they were doing *worse* than chicago schools as a whole.

even with more money, more time in school, uniforms, smaller classes, no esl students, a lower percent of low-income students, etc.

[JCMach1]

200. Think how good a public school could be if you get to pick motivated 'parents' like the ones

this school would have!!!

[mzteris]

220. they are the very same parents they were

when these kids were all failing in their regular school . . .

[JCMach1]

230. Required parental involvement is a whole other kettle of fish

Not only that, the parents must commit to this.

[Hannah Bell]

180. dupe

[mzteris]

206. no you're, not.

Some of those students "tested" that they refer to are not Seniors. It says "students" tested - not just "the senior class" tested.

[The Midway Rebel]

178. Public education works fine in the vast majority of places.

They are not opening charter schools in the wealthy white suburbs. It is poor folks that get stuck with these "alternatives" and if you pay attention and read this thread you will see that there is very little credible evidence that suggests these "alternatives" are doing any better at educating than public schools COULD do given the same conditions.

People are railing alright. Railing against the charter school propaganda machine.

[boppers]

181. Arizona seems to be the national testbed... 25% charter schools now.

BASIS seems to have figured it out. Compare to TUSD, pick any school.... and you'll find out that local UHS graduate kids (and others) wind up going to teach at BASIS.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/schoolsolutions/articles/2009/11/26/20091126basis-CR.html
http://educationnext.org/theyre-1-and-they-teach-to-the-test/comment-page-1/
http://www.basistucson.org/washingtonpost.pdf

High standards seems to be working, the question seems to be *which* standards.

[mzteris]

221. are you familiar with

any charters up close and personal? Do you know teachers who teach at one? Students who attend one? People who serve on the board of one?

NO?

Then I suspect you have bought into the "anti-charter-public-school" propaganda machine.


Charters open any and everywhere. There are all types of programs. For the advanced. For the disabled. For the challenged. For those whose needs aren't being met where they are. There are Montessori charters and language immersion charters and arts charters and core knowledge charters and a charter for just about any philosophy of education you might embrace. People should be able to send their kids - FREE OF CHARGE - to the type of school that suits their child's learning needs best. Would it be great if the traditional schools did these things? Hell, yeah! And some in some districts do; but they are few and far between. Innovative change is what is needed, and right now, Charter public schools are meeting that need.

[mopinko]

241. in chicago there are also shiny new public schools.

math and science magnets, language magnets, college prep magnets. some require testing, some don't. actual board of ed run schools. i guess according to some in this thread they are not public because there is selective enrollment. but they sure the hell are public in every other measurement there is.
the bottom line is that parents want choices. because they know their kids. and it is the kids who are having the worst time whose parents seek out change. it used to be that people of means moved to the burbs when the kids got to be school age.
this was the real impetus for the overhaul of the chicago schools. all those tax dollars fleeing the city.i wish this was happening for some warm fuzzy reason. but it is not. it is a cold hard reality for the city that they needed better schools to keep those deep pockets around.
and you know what- the tax payers should get the kind of schools they want.

[MellowDem]

173. These kids usually fail...

because they live in environments that are conducive to failure. Low-income, violent surroundings, little family structure or discipline, no culture of learning, etc. etc. All of the hallmarks of poverty. Unless a school can basically be a parent, a family, a home all at once, and few schools can provide such etheral things, nothing will change. Or unless such poverty is fought with social programs (imagine that!) nothing will change. It won't matter really how much money you throw at it. That only solves some (small) problems.

Private schools (or charter schools) can in many cases provide better for kids in poverty areas because they can be a school that reflects the challenges of the area specifically. Public schools can have their hands tied in that way, as they are public institutions that are ultimately run by administrators that have to manage schools that are located in every kind of community. One can look at Catholic schools, which can cater to a very specific culture and also provide a lot of discipline and "moral" training that public schools cannot. A sort of "family" structure in a way. In places where kids don't recieve that in their homes or communities, that can be a beneficial thing in some ways. I guess it's no surprise to me that this school has its students wear uniforms.

[boppers]

176. A uniform can be a suit and tie, or an orange jumpsuit, or baggy pants.

Part of the "uniform" training, and mindset, is letting these kids know that they're entitled to wear suits and ties.

[Hannah Bell]

186. Last year only 15% of this class was meeting state standards.

Do you really think in the next year the other 85% did?

This story is bullshit.

They got into university, but not on the basis of their academic performance.

[JCMach1]

188. +1

This is a Charter School puff piece.

[Hannah Bell]

190. finally. but "puff piece" is way too polite.

[MellowDem]

201. If the school started only 4 years ago...

maybe. How did they get into colleges? The charter school bribed the college officials? And there are many colleges out there that aren't the traditional 4-year school you might be thinking of. Trade schools and community colleges come to mind.

[mzteris]

205. What makes you think they had to be bribed??

Because they're "poor black boys?"

:grr:

MAYBE - JUST MAYBE THEY WERE EDUCATED PROPERLY IN A FORMAT AND PLACE THAT WORKED FOR THEM?!?

Maybe they should
FYI - one was accepted at NORTHWESTERN - you think that was bribery? One was accepted to THIRTEEN different college! Was THAT bribery?


"72 different colleges, including Northwestern University, Morehouse College, Howard University, Rutgers University and University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana. Alexander was accepted to DePaul University. http://www.urbanprep.org/media/Tribune_Mar2010.pdf

[MellowDem]

211. I think you misunderstood...

I was being incredulous about the poster I was responding to. I don't think they bribed them, I was just asking the previous poster how he thinks the kids got into college if he thinks that the kids were so unprepared.

[mzteris]

213. oh, okay -

sorry. I'm a little sensitive about this subject. And a wee bit incensed at those who are so self-absorbed and narrow-minded that they can't even be HAPPY for these kids just because they received their education opportunity through a !gasp! Charter school. ooooohhhhhhhhh nooooooooooooeeeeeeeeessssssssss. Charters are sooooooooo evil so it can't possibly be a good thing - for even these 107 young men.

:banghead:

[Hannah Bell]

218. i didn't say anyone bribed anyone, nor did i mean that. that's *your* read.

[mzteris]

207. and this

"They have thus far received over $2.2 million in scholarships and grants," King said. Maybe they used that money to BRIBE the colleges to let them in, eh?

[MellowDem]

212. Hey, I agree with you...

it was the poster I was responding to that was skeptical about how the kids got into college, not me.

[mzteris]

214. ah -

i see now.

I can't see their posts so I didn't know you were responding to their complete and utter bullshit. Why does it not surprise me what the evidently said . . . :(

[Hannah Bell]

215. in their junior year 15% met standards, in their senior year 100% did?

not likely.

[MellowDem]

222. So there was finagling with the test scores by the school? nt

[Hannah Bell]

229. i doubt it. i think it's more likely they got into college with the same low scores this admin is

waving around to justify firing teachers & opening charter schools.

i.e., this school didn't perform any better than the district, but it's being touted as some kind of miracle -- by focusing on college admissions & ignoring the rest of the story.

there are lots of ways to get kids into college if you have diligent, connected personnel making sure that happens.

[JCMach1]

196. In the mood of disclosure here is the school's board

Board of Directors & Advisors

Judith Armstead, Malcolm X College (Retired)

Kendrick Ashton, Perella Weinberg Partners

Darryl Cobb, KIPP Foundation

Merl Code, Nike, Inc.

Alexandre du Buclet, The Exeter Group

Oscar Johnson, The Private Bank

Loann King, Kennedy-King College (Retired)

Paul King Jr., UBM, Inc.

Tim King, Urban Prep Academies

Joseph McCoy, Perkins Coie

Stephanie Neely, Treasurer, City of Chicago

Mary Pattillo, Northwestern University

Steven Rogers, Kellogg School of Management

Tim Russell, Quaker Tropicana Gatorade

Kurt Summers, Tidal Capital Partners

Joe Terry, Oprah Winfrey Show

Christopher Zorich, Christopher Zorich Foundation

http://www.urbanprep.org/about/bod/index.asp

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

219. Ties are an assholish piece of garment. In school uniforms, doubly so.

I wore uniforms until my sophomore year, but they weren't asshole uniforms.