With no public option we will be working and fighting for heatlh legislation for the next 30 years

[dkf]

So says Howard Dean and watching this debate it becomes even more obvious as to the truth of that statement. If you are tired of healthcare now just think how tired you will be five years from now ten years from now fifteen years from now.

This bill won't do much to fix costs. The fallacy is that costs are high because some healthy people aren't paying insurance when the real problem is uncontrolled crazy costs. Having a system that depends on some insurers ability to bargain down payments better than others is no fix. We have to make sone serious decisions on what treatments are reasonable and which are futile.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. We have to make some serious decisions about the 30% overhead

that private for profit insurance is skimming off the top. That has always been the real issue here, and it remains the real issue here. All the rest is chaff spewed by the disinformation machine to protect the health insurance industry cartel's profits.

[Guilded Lilly]

2. Within thirty I will probably be gone.

Even if this one does pass, who the hell knows exactly what it will mean anyway or how soon it will take effect? If it helps in any way chip away at the power of the insurance criminals and serious drug pushers running the country, it is a start. If it enables millions to actually get health care, no matter how watered down, it is a start.

If it will eventually lead to the passing of bills such as Grayson is offering...(pipe dreams have to start somewhere!) then BRAVO.

But it is not in any way anything more than one small battle in a huge war.

At this point I want the party I support to win. I want the men and women of the party who has my heart to actually DO SOMETHING. The Republicans repel me on so many levels I just want them to LOSE. I want them to FAIL in any way possible.

Though, in truth it is always the American citizen who ends up losing, isn't it?

[liberal N proud]

3. If nothing is passed you may as well give up on anything ever happening again

[endless october]

5. how long is "ever again?"

you are predicting that if this current POS is not passed, there will never be another attempt to fix our fucked up private health care system?

if so, i disagree.

[Ms. Toad]

10. It has been about a dozen years since the last MINOR

insurance reform (HIPAA - which permitted people who currently have insurance to make it portable but placed no limits on the cost), and 25 years since the one before that (COBRA - which extended insurance availability to people losing job-related insurance - and which again placed no limits on the cost). Neither of these reforms ever even attempted to make the insurance companies extend insurance to anyone currently unable to get insurance, as these bills (and Obama's proposal do).

Frankly, 12 years, or 25 years is pretty darn close to forever when you have no access to health insurance, and no other means to pay for health care.

[endless october]

11. and this bill doesn't solve that problem.

how many Democrats do we need to elect to get a bill that actually addresses the problem?

i'll do my part and vote for them.

what i won't do is pretend a turd is a cheeseburger.

[Ms. Toad]

12. I'm not pretending it is a cheeseburger

but until we have a cheeseburger I would prefer to have the choice not to step in the turd - this bill will give me (and millions of others) that choice.

[Coyote_Bandit]

4. Some of us don't have the luxury

of waiting another 30 years to have the issue re-visited.

Meaningful healthcare reform is my line in the sand. Seems like Obama and the Dem majorities in the House and Senate - with a few notable exceptions - are not willing to deliver anything more than mandates and insurance reform which will not benefit me - or millions more like me.

The next time Obama and those less than notable Dems appear on my ballot I likely will not deliver either. I refuse to vote for a candidate that does not serve to advance and protect my needs and interests. Even if they call themselves a Dem. There simply is no difference between them and a Puke that does likewise. The sorry bastards all need to be retired. Fuck 'em.

[corpseratemedia]

6. I'd like to see a domino-effect of state legislators and governors passing a state version

of single-payer if Obama turns against the public and doesn't include it. I wonder what this admin will do when Jerry wins CA and signs on to what their state legs have passed I believe twice?

[Faryn Balyncd]

7. K&R....Thanks for post.

:hi:



:kick:

[bvar22]

8. If this bill passes,

(The Senate Bill with Obama's face on the new label),
it WILL take a generation or longer to elect enough REAL "Democrats", or enough members of a REAL Populist Party to:

First, UNDO this Bill.

Second, Pass another bill that fixes the problem.

This bill is NOT a "Step in the right direction".

[Ms. Toad]

9. It's already been 30 years, and we've gotten precisely nowhere.

The current proposal will make a difference for millions of Americans.

It may well take another 30 years to get where we need to be - but between now and then we must have something better than what we have now.

Yes, I'm tired of health care - but I've been watching and fighting that battle for thirty years ALREADY, and I am really tired right now because of those threatening to tank the substantial insurance reform that is within our grasp because it is not a complete and perfect health care reform.