Something about Domesitic Violence in America that really pisses me off....

[HardWorkingDem]

is the American response to it.

Why is it that domestic violence in America is not seen as terrorism? This idiotic country pays more attention to once in a lifetime acts of terrorism with such vigor, but ignores terror in the home like it does not exist. This crap pervades our entire society and look at how it is dealt with. We are told our homes are our castles and sacred, but when it comes to these insidious acts, they are hidden and those who are victims of this terrible crime are shunned and not provided with adequate means to escape it. Any person who abuses a partner is a miserable asshole in my book.

Orders of protection are powerless and as worthless as the paper they are issued on. People outside of these acts blame the victim (mostly women) for not taking measures to get away from their abuser. They ask why won't the woman leave the man or move out and so on. Well, it's because as a society we do not provide the adequate protection for ALL of these victims. People with orders of protection don't call the police because they KNOW the order is bullshit. The person violating the order, if caught, will be out of jail in mere hours and back again.

I understand there are many issues involving this subject and many stereotypes, but this topic needs more attention than it gets.

Our court systems and legislators need to enact protections that show this offense will not be taken lightly. Judges need to get pissed off as hell when some asshole does not abide by his/her order of protection.

Light needs to be shown upon this dirty, hidden subject and we need to need to treat it for the seriousness that it is.

Think of it for a moment - spouses, partners, roommates, children, are terrorized every day in their home and how do we respond to it? We ignore it, blame the victim and move on.

[virgogal]

1. And don't forget elder abuse,which is finally being acknowledged.

It's a disgrace-----all of it.

[babylonsister]

2. Everything about domestic violence pisses me off, but

insurance companies being able to use the physical violation of people as an excuse for a pre-existing condition really fries me. And yes, this too is blaming the victim. :grr:

[paulsby]

3. i don't know what jurisdiction YOU live in

but everywhere i have lived and worked, domestic violence is taken very seriously.

heck, we've even curtailed civil rights in our quest to eradicate it (which of course will never happen)

[FreakinDJ]

4. Until we admitt some women are just predetermined

to seek out and befriend violent personalities, then the problem never ends

[PeaceNikki]

5. You're 100% wrong. Violence Against Women Is a Men's Issue

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/06/02/jackson-katz-violence-against-women-is-a-mens-issue

Stop blaming women.

[FreakinDJ]

9. Just like I said ....

To think the 2 personalities are not predisposed and intertwined

There had been some excellent papers written in the psychological journals outlining the subliminal conversations these types of personalities have together. But of course acknowledgment of such an phenomenon would not be politically expedient for certain groups.

[PeaceNikki]

16. "If a woman has done everything in her power to reduce her risk,

then a man who has the proclivity for abuse or need for power will just move on to another woman or target."

Read the article I linked.

[FreakinDJ]

19. I wish it were just that simple

I've been trying to google around and find you a link to the study I was referring to in my earlier post that doesn't require you to register on the site. I'm not trying to blow smoke up anyone's arse or blame women.

I think everyone realizes if you grown up (male or female) in a home were abuse/domestic violence is taking place you'll carry that into your own relationships. 1 theory in particular was trying to explain the high occurrence of female incest survivors who married males who came from a family were sexual abuse had occurred. Often times the subject of sexual abuse had never been discussed by the 2.

But to say Males are exclusively responsible for Domestic violence is not particularly genuine either. Far too many studies have outline woman can be equally abusive and not only from a defensive posture.

Dr. Martin Fiebert, from the Department of Psychology of California State University, has compiled an annotated bibliograhy of research relating to spousal abuse by women on men. This bibliography examines 155 scholarly investigations: 126 empirical studies and 29 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 116,000. Very few studies have shown men to aggress more frequently than women. However, until recently the bulk of domestic violence research did not even ask about woman-on-man violence.

Straus and Gelles found in couples reporting spousal violence, 27 percent of the time the man struck the first blow; the woman in 24 percent. The rest of the time, the violence was mutual, with both partners brawling. The results were the same even when the most severe episodes of violence were analyzed. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, and the data was the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence

You can continue to blame it solely on the male of the species and it will continue or it can be addressed fully

[paulsby]

26. violence against women is EVERYBODY's issue

with the understanding that not all domestic violence IS against women. just ask phil hartman

[Cleita]

6. So it's the children's fault if their father beats them, because mom sought

out a sociopath to have children with? And it's her fault she gets beaten too because she didn't know he was a sociopath? I think a better approach would be to seek out the violent personalities in childhood and try to get them help in their formative years.

[FreakinDJ]

10. That is definitely a better approach - but who said any thing about "Fault"

"I think a better approach would be to seek out the violent personalities in childhood and try to get them help in their formative years."

But most of the psychology professionals prescribe to the school of thought of 2 personalities theory. Until both sides are addressed the problem does not stop

[PeaceNikki]

13. Bullshit. If abusers don't abuse no one is abused.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

11. Or violent personalities seek out the perfect victim.

n/t

[PeaceNikki]

14. And if one person doesn't fit that MO, another will. This blaming the victim is sick and twisted.

[Darth_Kitten]

23. Who's blaming the victim?

There are some rotten characters out there who will latch onto the first vulnerable human being who lets them.

[leftstreet]

31. Why are there so many violent men to choose from?

:shrug:

:shrug:

:shrug:

[Tumbulu]

7. Everywhere I have lived in this country, CA north, central and south

as well as AZ law enforcement completely turns a blind eye to domestic violence. Restraining orders are a joke and men who violate them are never jailed at all.

[paulsby]

27. well, everywhere i have lived and worked

domestic violence is taken very seriously and like i said, it's taken so seriously that the rights of the accused are arguably violated in many cases

[vadawg]

30. like you,i deal with this on a daily basis and concur with your post

domestic violence is taken real seriously in every jurisdiction i have contact with..

[paulsby]

32. last night i had to make an arrest

and i say HAD TO because DV arrests in cases like this are mandated by law...

and they are the ONLY kind of arrest where i have civil immunity (100%) as long as i acted in good faith...

iow, the only arrests where i am shielded from being sued for anything but bad faith,

and if this was NOT a DV case, there was no WAY i would have arrested. way too many confounding factors, and etc.

was there probable cause? sure. but PC is a relatively low standard.

the DV laws are very proactive.

also note that the issuance of protective orders are often AGAINST the wishes of the alleged victim. iow, a judge can essentially eliminate one's right to free association w/o a trial or even a showing of evidence by both sides, and people think DV isn't taken SERIOUSLY?

[vadawg]

33. yup ive been there, the cases where you dont feel there was an assault

but a case of mutual combat, but because of the living arrangements someone has to go to jail, i think the problem is that it takes away the discretion we have but i understand why they wrote it like this as they felt it wasnt taken to seriously, but the problem is not every case is domestic violence and yet we still must make an arrest. As to protective orders, i always tell the victims of the especially serious situations that we are only a phone call away, but it may still take us 10 minutes to get there, so even though you have a protective order you may want to think about going away and staying somewhere else. I would be concerned that you only have immunity in these cases, in VA the good faith laws pretty much cover us for any interaction we may have...

[paulsby]

44. actually, in this case

i am not at all saying there was mutual combat, i am saying there is SOME evidence to suggest that the wounds were not inflicted by the suspect, but by a previous incident involving a fall.

we;ll let the forensic "experts" (lol) sort that out

there was no WAY i wasn;'t going to make an arrest, since it was mandated, of course

[HardWorkingDem]

34. Yes, many laws are very proactive, but why? It's because...

More than anything else such laws have been created due to some terrible failure of the system and the failures continue.

Simply because DV laws allow for an easy arrest does not mean the system is working.

From my own experiences I think most Americans would be shocked at how often these terrible acts do occur and continue to occur.

And why do these acts continue? Because our country still does not recognize this issue as a national problem. On top of this, I am only speaking of the experiences that are even reported.

Imagine how many acts of DV go on because the victim is too terrorized to call for help in the first place.

If this issue was taken as serious as I think it should be, people who do such things would face serious jail and or prison time.

Not only that, when OPs are issued, a recipient of such orders would be scared shitless and not call, drive by or other wise harass the victim and on top of that, the victim would feel assured something would be done if the OP was violated.

[paulsby]

52. these acts do not continue to happen

because of some hole in law enforcement

they happen because of larger cultural issues, not to mention that some people deal with anger, rage, insecurity etc. by physical violence.

iow, we will never eradicate domestic violence any more than we will eradicate illicit drug use.

my point was that there are few areas of the law where suspects have fewer rights or where more people are falsely arrested (and by falsely arrested, i do not mean in bad faith - i mean arrested when they are in fact innocent).

not to mention the whole order thing.

i know women (and a few men) who were VERY pissed off a judge issued a no contact order. but they had essentially NO SAY in the matter.

there are understandable reasons why judges do this sometimes AGAINST "victim's" wishes but it's still an order issued with only a modicum of information, and that violates essential rights to free association

think about this also. if you are accused of domestic violence, not only will you be arrested (assuming there is probable cause) but you will be ejected from your house for AT LEAST the terms of the temporary order. thrown out on the street essentially. no trial.

[HardWorkingDem]

53. From the law enf aspect.....

creating laws where something must be done (which were most likely created from law enforcement not doing much in the past - I can't recall the name of the female victim, but it was a landmark case where a woman was stomped on and I believed paralyzed while members of a police department stood by and watched. I think the town was Thornton or something like that. A truly horrific case of "do nothing") has been one of the most convenient aspects for policing - with these types of laws "everyone" can go to jail, which then ends current incident quickly and for the night if needed.

In other words, it gave police a quick and efficient tool to deal with an immediate problem. And that is just one more problem with the US and modern policing - we have a tendency to try to simply "arrest" our way out of problems, instead of dealing with them.

As I've claimed, anyone in policing knows how little fear OPs carry in the eyes of those they are slapped on.


And yes, there are many incidents of all sorts of errors, but these still are outweighed by the vast under reporting of domestic abuse.

As for those thrown out of their house for abuse...I have little sympathy for them. I'm sick and tired of reading of another battered woman dead, children thrown off bridges into rivers and dealing with murdered women from violent abusers.

When it comes to our society, there is some sort of disgusting disconnect when it comes to violence in a America.

[Tumbulu]

42. So, which states? Is it a west coast thing this tendency to ignore

restraining orders and terrorize and kill the partner. It's in the newspapers almost every day around here. It's always the same story. The man always kills the woman in the end.

Please tell me which states. Thanks.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

8. Domestic Violence IS essentially terrorism IMHO

Or at least the tactics of abusers aren't really different than terrorists- they just have different aims. Many abusers seem to be sociopaths in general.

[divideandconquer]

12. America's absurdly lax gun laws pour fuel on the fire

it's almost as if this country encourages the murder-suicide outcome.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks so

This demand for access to guns at any cost is absurd- and this mentality seems to have only gotten worse since the 1990's.

[proteus_lives]

29. Yeah, rights are absurd.

:eyes:

See my reply to the other authoritarian.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

38. No

Demanding that anybody be allowed to own whatever firearm(s) they want and carry/brandish them absolutely anywhere they want (even if it's just your local Starbucks) is what is absurd IMHO. I have no problems with responsible and reasonably regulated gun ownership but it seems like there are too many people in this country whom hyperventilate about "loss of freedom" and their "rights" and warn ominously about our country sliding towards dictatorship whenever anybody proposes ANY sensible restrictions/regulations on access to firearms- as though we live in the most dangerous country in the world with terrorists, bad guys, and other assorted criminals just waiting around every street corner to invade our homes and assault us and/or loved ones. If this was Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, or somewhere similar, people arguing for virtually unfettered access to guns might have a point but other countries with comparable populations with more restrictions aren't at the mercy of their criminal element.
IMHO there needs to be MORE restrictions on our access to guns but, unfortunately, most politicians, even Democrats, have become too cowed by the NRA and the fear of losing the votes of key demographic groups to do anything meaningful about firearms for the foreseeable future.
In fact, now that we have a Democratic POTUS, the trend seems to be leaning more towards FEWER restrictions (or lifting some of the ones we have on the books) on who, what, and where in terms of access to firearms and a lot of people are stockpiling firearms and ammunition as though they are going out of style- which can't end well IMHO.
:rant:

[Caliman73]

50. Actually it has gotten better.

Less crime, less violence, just a great deal more reporting on that decreasing violence. Since murder and mayhem attract more viewership that reporting on any other topic, the media focuses on it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

51. I know that violence has gone down

What I was referring to is the hysterical mentality of some people whom try to promote the idea that we are living in a lawless state completely at the mercy of criminals, terrorists, and thugs lurking around every corner- and that we all need to have unlimited access to firearms at every moment everywhere we go (even if it's just to drink a latte over at your local Starbucks). Heck, there have been some states/towns that have tried to make it MANDATORY for everybody to own firearms and some people have become even more paranoid about their gun rights since Obama was elected just like they were under Clinton- as evidenced by the increase in gun and ammo sales since (before?) last January.

[proteus_lives]

28. Sure, ignore that women who use firearms to defend themselves.

They should fist-fight with men twice their size. :eyes:

[goinveg]

35. There is already a law

People convicted of misdemeanor DV or under a DV court order are not allowed to buy or own guns - federal law. This does not preclude the victim from buying or owning a gun.

"But they still get guns."

Yes, just as any criminal will ignore a law that prevents him from doing what he wants.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Terrorism's political, domestic violence isn't.

Pervades our entire society? Pff.

[divideandconquer]

20. Since women are usually at the losing end, it is absolutely political

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Do husbands abuse their wives because they want to send a political message to women?

No? Well there you go.

[divideandconquer]

24. I think many of them do, they send the message the woman belongs to them

Variations of slavery is political

[varelse]

22. Sure didn't take long for that attitude to surface here, did it?

[AdHocSolver]

25. There are two factors involved here. One is cognitive dissonance and the other is authoritarianism.

My dictionary defines cognitive dissonance as "psychological conflict resulting from incongruous beliefs and attitudes held simultaneously."

The same dictionary defines authoritarian as "of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority."

Put these two factors together with the fact that American society is essentially patriarchal, and it is no longer a mystery why domestic violence is covered up and ignored.

So we see Republican politicians who seem to have a patent on "family values" cheat on their wives and are excused or forgiven by their constituents, while a more liberal Democrat like Clinton or Spitzer is politically "lynched".

Americans have an Alice-in-Wonderland view of American society, and any fact which detracts from the image of a fair and equitable society where "anyone who works hard and plays by the rules will be rewarded with success" is denied vehemently.

So we see people who are jobless through no fault of their own being called deadbeats and lazy, and denied minimal food and health care, while crooked bankers are handed billions of dollars to bail them out of their failed schemes, allegedly to "save the economy".

The reality of this society is that the bureaucratic world, whether corporate, academic, or governmental, is full of "bullies" who enjoy using their ability to harass subordinates, customers, or students with impunity. They feel it is their prerogative and are not about to deny it to others.

[Echo In Light]

39. +1000. The US pays more attn to "once in a lifetime acts of terrorism" b/c it benefits police $tate

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

36. You're getting into semantics

If I live in a bad neighborhood, isn't terrorism being used by the bad apples to frighten the average person as well?

Crime is crime, we just have to find ways to battle each one as they all have their own nuances that make it difficult to stop.

[cali]

37. +100 for common sense

everything is fucking terrorism, nothing is fucking terrorism.

[Ro71]

40. Domestic Violence

Domestic violence is taken very serious in this country. Having a domestic violence charge on you're record is just as bad as a felony. What do you expect the courts to do, wave a magic wand and make the bad people and relationships to go away? The courts do anything and everything to protect the victims. Go down to you're local courthouse and sit in the family court room and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

[HardWorkingDem]

41. No...it's not....(or at the least, not as serious as it should)...

I don't have to go to the local courthouse - I see this stuff every single day. And our society does not do enough or else things might be different.

I expect judges to take violations of their orders very seriously. A violation of an OP should be so severe it strikes fear into the person that is rightfully served one.

[Last_Stand]

45. Go visit rural Missouri and you'll see that it's not...

You could probably visit a lot of other poor, rural areas in the country and find the same.

[dustbunnie]

43. It's terrible, but it isn't terrorism. That's hyperbole.

If my neighbor beats her husband, or he beats his wife, I am not terrorized because of it. Nor are you terrorized by the domestic violence you claim to see every day. That's because these are crimes by individuals against other individuals.

[HardWorkingDem]

46. You are mistaken....

Many times not only is the victim terrorized, but the victim's entire family. Do you even realize how often an abuser will continue to harass, drive by, call, show up at work sites, et cetera?

If you think only the person being victimized is terrorized, think again and do some research on domestic violence across the board. Think of young women dating that first boyfriend who turns out to be an abuser and harasses her and her family. Think of the children who are terrorized in their bedrooms while this is going on. Think of family members who might be terrorized when a relative is in hiding from some searching abuser.

And mainly my point for stating how it is "terrorism" is as someone earlier pointed out - we shudder in fear from the terrible acts of 9/11 while this national disgrace receives hardly the same amount of coverage.

One last thing, also think of how such incidents of domestic violence that are mostly spoken of are only those that we probably know of are of the ones reported. Think of how many go unreported each and every day for many reasons.

[dustbunnie]

47. I've been volunteering at our local woman's shelter for over 5 years.

So, yes, I am aware of what goes on. And yes, families are terrorized, but that isn't what I was talking about, is it? I said, if my neighbor beats his wife, I do not fear him, nor do I believe that my own partner would ever beat me. Therefore, I am not terrorized by the fact that this hypothetical person beats his wife. I never stopped dating or becoming intimate with someone for fear they were a beater. Neither are you terrorized by what happens in some stranger's family. Therefore, it is not terrorism. The way people throw that word around has really become quite ridiculous. Personally, I thought it was terrorism when my parents grounded me, and believe I once told them as much, which only extended my misery. This sort of exaggeration is kind of on the same level.

[Scout]

48. don't bother ... dustbunnie is an expert on EVERYTHING! n/t

[cali]

49. no, that poster is NOT mistaken. A fucking pick pocket can cause terror

in his/her victim. So can a burglar.

And yes, I've plenty of experience- both as a victim of domestic violence and as a Victim Advocate.