Runaway Prius driver is wearing a San Diego Corvette Owners Club jacket in video..

[Fumesucker]

The jacket even has his name "Jim" on it..

This guy knows way more about cars than he's letting on..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLmG7spfuXU

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. Good investigating. Toyota's gonna want that pic

;)

[B Calm]

56. Why in hell would Toyota want that picture?

[BeyondGeography]

2. Got that used car salesman look down

[apocalypsehow]

3. Good catch! Rec. n/t.

[xultar]

4. I dont see what that has to do with anything. A prius is way different from a vet.....and

They couldn't get that guy's camry to repeat the runaway situation. You know the guy who is in jail for killing those 5 people a camry.....
His car wouldn't do a runaway on command.

[Fumesucker]

5. Umm.... He would have known how to get the brakes hot for one thing..

And in the video he sounds completely clueless, not like an automobile enthusiast at all.

He sounds like someone who has never been in a plane describing a plane crash.

And then there's the question of his saying that putting the car in neutral could make it "flip", just barely understandable for a normal driver, totally idiotic for a Corvette Club member.

He's sandbagging..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbagging

[TexasObserver]

11. "Do not shift the shift lever to “N” while vehicle is moving."

Prius Owner's manual.

[Fumesucker]

17. Shift the transmission to "N": 911 operator..

Do you know what engine braking is?

[nadinbrzezinski]

You surely realize it does not work that way

on ANY hybrid.

By the way it was all to do with the design of the gear box. Mostly there are no gears in that "box."

[Fumesucker]

24. The manual says not to shift into N because you will lose engine braking..

The Prius is a parallel hybrid, which means that the engine *and* the electric motor can both drive at the same time..

Engine braking is what happens when the engine is idling and connected to the wheels.

[TexasObserver]

31. NO! It says don't do it at all, or you may lose control of the vehicle.

“Do not under any circumstances shift the shift lever to 'R', 'N' or push the 'P' position switch while the vehicle is moving. Doing so can cause significant damage to the transmission and may result in a loss of vehicle control."

Prius Owner's Manual.

[Fumesucker]

37. A DUer who owns a Prius has already performed the experiment in their own car..

And reported that it does indeed work.

[TexasObserver]

42. More avoidance by you. Prius Manual says DO NOT DO IT.

Find where in the Prius owner's manual it says to do it as you continue to insist.

It doesn't say that, does it?

[Fumesucker]

47. Argue with someone that's actually done it..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7893972

I've been driving a 2008 Prius for 2 1/2 years.
Never a problem, but the story out of San Diego got my attention because that Prius was the same year as mine.

On a deserted rural road I experimented.
I found I could shift into neutral at various speeds up to 60, and in various conditions.
Foot off gas.
Foot on gas.
Accelerating, decelerating, and at stable speed.
With or without cruise control engaged.

When you hold the shift lever to the neutral position it takes a second or two to go into neutral, but it goes, every time.
At least it did for me.

[TexasObserver]

52. The Prius Owner followed the Prius Owner's manual.

You criticized him for refusing to put the car into Neutral, and you further claimed that his concern that it would cause him to lose control of the car was absurd. But the Prius Owner's manual proves that he followed the manual's instruction, which said not to shift into Neutral and warned it could cause loss of control of the car.

Now you're trying to create enough smoke to obscure that Prius said you're wrong.

[Fumesucker]

57. Have it your way then, people should just give up if their car goes into unintended acceleration..

There's nothing you can do but resign yourself to fiery death.

[frylock]

78. 2010 Toyota Prius brake problems. Easy fix, amazing documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ4PtafRB9c

[TexasObserver]

80. Some idiot in a hood with a cussing obsession? That's your answer?

I understand that intermittent problems are INTERMITTENT. Since I know what that word means, I know that one test drive does not negate hundreds of reported and acknowledged acceleration incidents.

You may not have heard this, but Toyota denied the problems for five years, only to issue a recall when the case against them became so overwhelming.

FYI: I didn't watch because I don't watch idiots like that. I turned it off after 5 seconds, because that's all I needed to know he's an idiot.

[frylock]

81. lalalala..

listen, i've refrained from posting that vid due to the strong language, but i got sick and fucking tired of your authoritarian "read the manual" bullshit. if you want to crash and burn because of what some manual states, then that's your own damn business. if i'm in a car that accelerates unexpectedly, i'm putting the car in neutral.

since you couldn't bear to watch the vid, i'll explain to you what happens. he gets the car up to speed (50mph) and shifts the car into neutral. the car didn't flip. he didn't lose control of the vehicle. the transmission was not damaged. in another video, he gets the car up to 60mph and SHUTS IT DOWN!!1!!

[TexasObserver]

84. Then why hasn't Toyota issued a supplement to their owner's manuals?

Do you really think if Toyota considered that the solution, they wouldn't use it?

The vehicles in question are not some car some guy chose to make a video. They have an intermittent problem which appears to be in their computer system. That Neanderthal in your video doesn't know anything about that. He's a guy trying to prove that if you drive a Toyota that doesn't malfunction, you can put it in Neutral. Even if true, it begs the question.

You and he both sound like the car owner who might have said "but my Pinto never explodes into fire, killing everyone in my car!" Or the tire owner who might have said "but my Firestones never explode and kill everyone in my vehicle."

Do you understand that trying something and having no delirious consequences doesn't prove a damn thing about this series of intermittent incidents?

[frylock]

86. you know what? shifting into neutral may not work for everyone..

but in my opinion, it should be the first thing that you try. the good folks at Car and Driver (How To Deal With Unintended Acceleration - Tech Dept.) happen to agree. if it doesn't work, then you can call 911 and stand on the brakes.

i don't know why toyota has not amended their owner's manual, nor do i understand why that is such a burning issue for you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Look at the box, or rather lack of a box

and how it is installed in the car.

Your answer as to why you may loose control when using that old trick is in there.

By the way, I am betting this is a SOFTWARE issue... and that they will keep diverting attention for ever and a day... and blaming drivers... dead or alive don't matter.

[TexasObserver]

21. Do you understand what the Prius Owner's Manual says?

"Do not shift the shift lever to “N” while vehicle is moving."

[Fumesucker]

29. Unlike you I also understand *why* it says that..

Because you will lose engine braking..

If the engine is running at high speed there is no engine braking anyway, exactly the opposite in fact.

[TexasObserver]

36. "Do not under any circumstances shift the lever ... to "N" while vehicle is moving."

“Do not under any circumstances shift the shift lever to “R”, “N” or push the “P” position switch while the vehicle is moving. Doing so can cause significant damage to the transmission and may result in a loss of vehicle control."

You can try to avoid that all you want, but I'm going to post it so you won't forget it or avoid it.

Did the Prius Manual ever say "Do not shift the lever to "N" while the vehicle is moving unless Fumesucker thinks it is a good idea"? If so, please provide that quote from the manual.

[Fumesucker]

41. A DUer who owns a Prius reports that it works..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7893972

I've been driving a 2008 Prius for 2 1/2 years.
Never a problem, but the story out of San Diego got my attention because that Prius was the same year as mine.

On a deserted rural road I experimented.
I found I could shift into neutral at various speeds up to 60, and in various conditions.
Foot off gas.
Foot on gas.
Accelerating, decelerating, and at stable speed.
With or without cruise control engaged.

When you hold the shift lever to the neutral position it takes a second or two to go into neutral, but it goes, every time.
At least it did for me.

[TexasObserver]

50. You continue to try to avoid the Prius Owner's Manual, which says you're wrong.

I do not value an alleged testimonial from ANYONE. It's completely irrelevant what some person on a message board said they did. Completely irrelevant.

You have criticized this man relentlessly, alleging all sorts of things, such as the one that caused you to start this thread. You claim that he should have put it into Neutral, and have said that his failure to do so and his excuse that he was afraid of losing control of the car was ridiculous. When I pointed out that the Prius Owner's Manuals backed him 100%, you began to start this avoidance tactic.

[Fumesucker]

53. OK, if people have a Prius that exhibits uninteded acceleration they should do nothing..

My bad, if your Prius takes off there's nothing you can do except consign yourself to a fiery death.

[awoke_in_2003]

58. Sign me up

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Oh contrair

keep going on the brakes, switch to the lowest gear possible... and keep pumping on them breaks

Call 9.11

And if you survive, expect to be called a liar by people like you as well as Toyota.

[PBS Poll-435]

94. Don't pump the brakes. Toyota Prius has anti-lock brakes with Brake Assist (BA)

And the Prius has a CVT, so don't bother with "gears".

Push your friggin' foot into the brake pedal and put the MFer into neutral. You will be at a complete stop at far less than 15 seconds.



But...If you want to be on next season's Celebrity Apprentice, keep this hoax going for 20 minutes and 7+ days.

[frylock]

82. RTFM..

and don't ever stray from what it tells you, regardless of the situation.

[Fumesucker]

97. Except of course when the manufacturer tells you to do otherwise in an emergency situation..

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/FAQ-for-Sticking-Accelerator-Pedal-152196.aspx

What should I do if I experience floor mat pedal entrapment while driving?
Should the vehicle continue to accelerate rapidly after releasing the accelerator pedal, this could be an indication of floor mat interference. If this occurs, Toyota recommends the driver take the following actions:
• First, if it is possible and safe to do so, pull back the floor mat and dislodge it from the accelerator pedal; then pull over and stop the vehicle.
• If the floor mat cannot be dislodged, then firmly and steadily step on the brake pedal with both feet. Do NOT pump the brake pedal repeatedly as this will increase the effort required to slow the vehicle.
• Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine. • If you are unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF, or to ACC. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.
o If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine. Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button.
o If the vehicle is equipped with a conventional key-ignition, turn the ignition key to the ACC position to turn off the engine. Do NOT remove the key from the ignition as this will lock the steering wheel.

[frylock]

93. this comes straight from pressroom.toyota.com

What if you experience a sticking accelerator pedal while driving?
Each circumstance may vary, and drivers must use their best judgment, but Toyota recommends taking the following actions:
• If you need to stop immediately, the vehicle can be controlled by stepping on the brake pedal with both feet using firm and steady pressure. Do not pump the brake pedal as it will deplete the vacuum utilized for the power brake assist.
• Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.
• If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.
o If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine. Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button.
o If the vehicle is equipped with a conventional key-ignition, turn the ignition key to the ACC position to turn off the engine. Do NOT remove the key from the ignition as this will lock the steering wheel.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/FAQ-for-Sticking-Accelerator-Pedal-152196.aspx

[Fumesucker]

96. Thank you for posting that, I looked for it and couldn't find it..

The hysteria level on this subject is really starting to get to me.

[frylock]

79. seems like you have one of two choices..

1) follow the manual and kiss your ass goodbye
2) improvise at any cost, regardless of what the owners manual may state

if it's me behind the wheel in this situation, i don't give two shits that i can "cause significant damage to the transmission."

[NickB79]

73. What does the Prius Owner's Manual say to do in cases of runaway acceleration?

Since you seem to think all automotive problems can be answered by quotes from it?

[TexasObserver]

75. It says DO NOT SHIFT INTO NEUTRAL under any circumstance.

While the car is being driven.

If Toyota wants to have an instruction regarding runaway acceleration, they are free to add one, but they haven't done that. Their omnibus instruction should be sufficient, even for the most hard headed of owners.

[frylock]

83. even for the most hard headed of owners..

:rofl:

[ribrepin]

101. Toyota's website has a video and everything about stopping a runaway Prius

Of course, they haven't send out updates to the manual so it must not be accurate.

http://www.toyota.com/recall/videos/hybrid-vehicle-stopping-procedure.html

[PBS Poll-435]

85. 911 Operator: "Shift That Fucker Into Neutral!!!11!!!"

Ignored by Mr. Sikes.




(Ok...I paraphrased a little...)

[TexasObserver]

87. What makes you think the 911 operator knows ANYTHING?

The people who answer 911 calls don't have any expertise regarding the Prius.

If Toyota says in their owner's manual DO NOT DO IT, why would you listen to some dispatcher?

[PBS Poll-435]

88. I really doubt that Mr. Sikes was thumbing through his owner's manual at 90+ MPH

:rofl:


Give it up already...

[TexasObserver]

89. Then you should pay more attention to what he said.

He told the 911 operator he wouldn't put it in Neutral because that might cause the car to go out of control, just as the PRIUS MANUAL WARNED IT MIGHT.

Just because you don't read the manual doesn't mean other drivers are similarly limited.

[PBS Poll-435]

90. LOLOL!!! Give it up already

He was afraid that his front wheel drive Prius would go out of control (while it was "out of control" already?) :rofl:

[TexasObserver]

91. LOL!! You can't accept that you are ill informed and mistaken.

[PBS Poll-435]

92. Ill-informed? Putting a car into neutral disengages the driving wheels

And stops engine braking that would normally occur when the RPMs falls below the acceleration threshold.

Power steering and brake operation continue normally.




If the car was already "out of control," what would be the purpose of claiming to be afraid of the car going "out of control?"




Unless you wanted to drag a 20 second event into 20+ minutes...?



:eyes:

[spanone]

6. so if i wear a pittsburgh steelers jacket, i should be able to kick a field goal?

[Fumesucker]

8. If you were a member of a club devoted to the Steelers ..

It would be expected you at least know what a field goal is..

Just pointing out that the guy is an automobile enthusiast and not your everyday Joe Sixpack who knows nothing of cars.

[spanone]

12. we don't really know if he's an automobile enthusiast...we just know he has a corvette jacket

[Fumesucker]

16. With his name embroidered on it..

[spanone]

44. he must be guilty then

:hi:

[awoke_in_2003]

60. Off with his head

:hi:

[rufus dog]

18. no

But you may be called on to Quarterback the team.

[reflection]

54. No, but you should be able to tear up a towel dispenser.

:evilgrin:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/This-paper-towel-dispenser-is-really-making-Jeff?urn=nfl,141645

[awoke_in_2003]

62. At least he is not...

getting himself in trouble with women. I swear, 20 years of putting up with the Bubby Brister, Mark Malone, Cliff Stoudt, Neil O'Donnel, Mike Tomczak, and Kordell Stewarts of the world and we FINALLY get a decent QB and he can't keep it in his pants. I know, innocent until proven guilty, but you would think Ben would have enough common sense to not put himself into situations where these allegations could be true.

[xultar]

67. +1

[malaise]

7. Check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7922715&mesg_id=7922715

[Fumesucker]

9. I saw it..

Do you know what "engine braking" is?

[TexasObserver]

15. Do you know what "DO NOT" means in a Prius Owner's Manual?

Now you're saying Toyota put the wrong instruction in its manual?

Please explain how you know better that this from the manual:

"Do not shift the shift lever to “N” while vehicle is moving."

[Fumesucker]

19. Then why did the 911 operator tell him to put the transmission in neutral?

What you do in an emergency is not the same thing as you do in normal driving..

Do you drive the same skidding on ice as in normal circumstances.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Becuase most emergency dispatch workers

do not read owners manuals for a living.

That procedure works just dandy with 98% of older cars... and I'd say 90% of newer cars.

It happens to be that Hybrids do not conform to the norm.

[Fumesucker]

33. A DUer has already tried it in a Prius and reported it works..

There is an OP about it in the last few days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. That is nice... I know MY MANUAL

says the same thing, (not a toyota) and I know MECHANICALLY why it does not work.

Oh and I AM a trained emergency Vehicle Operator. Don't do it anymore, but training is still there.

Now I am betting that DU'er did that at a VERY LOW speed, assuming this person is telling the truth.

Now go ahead, continue defending Toyota.

Unfrigging unbelievable! You think the CHP officer who got himself killed didn't try that on a Camry? A car where that SHOULD WORK?

Jesus age, there are days.

[Fumesucker]

59. Quick question without looking it up..

Is a Prius a parallel or a series hybrid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Parallel and your point? The

gear box... as much as you can all it that way, is very similar on ALL systems.

Think of a CONE... not a box

Oh and again it did NOT work on a CAMRY... operated by a TRAINED Emergency Vehicle Operator. Are you that daft, or you work for Toyota? (I am sure you don't, but it sure seem you do...)

[Fumesucker]

72. We don't know whether it worked on the Lexus..

When gas was about $5.00 a gallon here I learned to hypermile in my Expedition, part of doing that was putting the automatic transmission in neutral consistently when coasting (which was about 80% of the time I was moving)..

Haven't owned a Toyota in fifteen years, don't work for Toyota, don't own Toyota (or any other) stock.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Yet you are defending the corporation

and what the cars that have failed all have in common is manufacturer, mechanical systems and software package.

No there could not be a connection there and all of them have to be fraud or driver error.

You are old enough to remember the Pinto and the excuses from Ford... well guess what? Same deal, different mechanical system, different company.

[Fumesucker]

95. Lincoln Town Car has the #2 spot in unintended acceleration..

I'm not defending anyone, just trying to bring some rationality to what seems to me to be rapidly becoming a hysterical situation.

[frylock]

77. 2010 Toyota Prius brake problems. Easy fix, amazing documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ4PtafRB9c

[TexasObserver]

25. Because the 911 operator is barely competent to take messages.

You are once again trying to avoid the obvious by talking about silly things that are irrelevant.

The PRIUS OWNER'S MANUAL SAYS:

"Do not shift the shift lever to “N” while vehicle is moving."

Refute that.

[spoony]

46. Did the operator also have a car club jacket? If not I can't accept their authority. nt

[flvegan]

10. Nah, it just means he has SOME good taste in cars.

[Earth_First]

13. My god! He might even have driven a Volkswagon at one point in his life too!

:eyes:

[spoony]

14. Great, now go dig up dirt on Toyota's other victims.

Maybe some of them took auto shop in school, the money-grubbing fakers.

[Earth_First]

20. No kidding...

Hopefully not a signle one of them have ever changed a flat tire; they may have actually looked at the brakes while changing it out!

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. One was a trained vehicle operator

and lord knows we saw the same crap on this site about him and his motives, never mind he was six feet under, with members of his family.

[Romulox]

27. Thanks for being the one to say it. nt

[Fumesucker]

49. How is it "dirt"?

He wore the jacket with his name embroidered on it, all I did was look at the video..

[xultar]

70. +1

[TexasObserver]

76. +2

Yeah, I know your second one was a dupe, but I didn't want to be outdone.

[xultar]

71. +1

[Romulox]

23. I heard this guy once had a saxophone stolen. That settled the whole thing for me!

http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt-runaway-prius-driver-fake-unintended-acceleration

[11 Bravo]

28. J' accuse!

[TommyO]

30. I know two people who own performance cars and Prius'

What's the big fucking deal?

[Earth_First]

34. It's just another example of DU continuing on it's path futher to the right of center...

First we beat up on members of the Progressive Caucus
Now we accuse folks of motive and hang them in the square before innocence or guilt has been awarded...

[Romulox]

43. Or American culture's reflexive apologism for the interests of the wealthy and powerful

over those of regular people.

Toyota also has a financial motive and a credibility problem regarding this issue, after all.

[Earth_First]

48. +1 n/t

[Fumesucker]

51. It works both ways..

And in fact I support Kucinich and I've been blasted for that already today here on DU..

[Fumesucker]

35. The man is acting as if he knows nothing of cars..

Corvette Club members are almost always more knowledgeable about cars than the general public.

[951-Riverside]

39. Good Point. I completely agree with you.

Errr I meant to say TOYOTA SUCKS! ASK THE OTHER VICTIMS! BIG DEAL! WHO CARES? WHY ARE YOU PROTECTING CORPORATIONS?! :sarcasm: :eyes:

[Earth_First]

40. Really...

Because the guy I work for belongs to one, and he doesn't know a fucking thing about how to change a lightbulb, let alone the horsepower in his 35th anniversary corvette.

It's a "status" symbol to him.

So yet again, more 'speculation' before the entire investigation reveals it's results...

[Fumesucker]

45. In fact I make custom parts sometimes for a Corvette club..

I've met a great many of the owners and the ones I have met are knowledgeable more than the average driver.

[trumad]

55. Then again--

He's most certainly pro Chevy and would love to see Toyota take a fall.

[slackmaster]

61. The San Diego Corvette Owners' Club throws great parties!

:hi:

[npk]

65. And don't forget this guy was able to drive 94 mph on a busy freeway

without crashing or causing an accident. That right there takes tremendous skill and more than little know how of just standard stop and go driving. How many people that no nothing about cars could drive at this speed, talk to 911, and navigate in heavy traffic without crashing.

[greyl]

100. ...but be afraid of shifting into neutral? Zero. nt

[nonconformist]

66. All this tells me is that maybe he's used to cars that stop when you press the brake.

Strange for Toyota fanboys to comprehend, I know.

[xultar]

68. +1

[tekisui]

69. If you watch the video his eyes are telling that he is lying.

Watch how he looks away and down. He is lying.

[Pithlet]

98. Damning evidence, that.

Wow. I'm convinced now. Really. I was solidly in the wait till there's firm evidence. This was what I was waiting for. I'm jumping into the hoax camp with both feet with this. Who could possibly question it now? They'd be fools.

[ScreamingMeemie]

99. I have a Shared Vision Jacket (MrG's last job), embroidered...

I don't know crap about engineering, design and machining.