Toyota Prius brake problems part 2, addressing some questions

[frylock]

the foul-mouthed Prius driver is back to address some questions. this one is fairly clean, with the exception of an f-bomb at the very end. to summarize; he is able to shift his Prius into neutral, at speed, and even shuts the car down doing 60mph without any adverse affects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqcCGv0aolM&feature=channel

[PuppyBismark]

1. When in Doubt, RTFM (Read the F***ing Manual)

[frylock]

2. the manual states that you should never ever ever..

EVER, under any circumstance, shift the car into neutral. ever.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7922418#7922974

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. You know why?

This guy has been lucky...

Think of the gear box as a cone... longish cone, under your car, running quite a bit of the length of the car.

If you shift to neutral, and the car actually goes to neutral, the software mostly prevents that, that cone might come apart, or you will lock the tires. How would you like flipping end over end?

So far his software has been able to prevent some of the serious problems.

I tell you what. I got a Honda Hybrid... and turn it to neutral, especially at speed is not something I'd do... and for god sakes I got some training in emergency handling of vehicles...

Now on my ancient Toyota truck... yes, absolutely... different vehicles, and different systems. And oh no software. Oh and here is more. Neutral? No, not true neutral. His software is designed to shift his vehicle to the lowest gear possible... which most of the time is what you do in modern cars... Well I can do that myself, and not risk the car locking on me. Going from sixty to zero on front tires is not quite healthy.

[frylock]

4. well so far i've seen three videos that disprove your theory..

i'm willing to look at this with an open mind, and i am in NO WAY exonerating Toyota of any malfeasance. if you have evidence that the car will flip if put into neutral, other than the THEORY which you have presented, i'd like to see it. the alternative to NOT trying is possibly meeting a fate similar to that CHP officer over here on Mission Gorge.

i carpool with a Camry driver, and if his car experiences any unexpected acceleration issues, i'm throwing the shifter into neutral.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. It is not a theory

modern cars mostly DO NOT go on to neutral.

The only trannies that are still capable of doing that are... STANDARD.

And things like any Hybrid are so full of software and computer control systems that it is not even funny. Why you really should not do much to it...

Why do you think they are thinking of making black boxes mandatory in cars? Could it be the high reliance on electronics for all systems in a vehicle?

These incidents are driving that need, with good reason. Cars are close to ... fly by wire in the complexity any longer.

And they are just getting more complex.

Oh and by the way, after they slimmed a CHP officer and tried to accuse him of operator error. I am sorry, an Emergency Worker knows the tricks and then some. His car was old enough were going to Neutral should have worked. You think a CHP officer, who TRAINS for that didn't?

Why do you think I trust Toyota as far as I can throw them in this story... and trust me, that is not that far.

Now my personal theory is... a computer glitch. Hard to find, even harder to reproduce... more than mechanical.

[frylock]

6. have you watched the videos?

please explain how these drivers were able to not only shift into neutral, but shut the car down and still maintain control? moreover, car and driver magazine makes the same suggestion. it would be reckless for them to advise people to do something that would cause the car to flip.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Yes I have and I am betting they cannot tell the difference

between neutral and LOWEST gear which is what the software system will do when you turn the car to neutral.

Lowest gear will still slow the engine and the car down.

And a non trained driver it will look like the same.

[frylock]

8. you're really grasping at straws now..

at the :45 mark the shift indicator on the dash clearly shows the car to be in neutral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N22LLJsChA

in this video, at the 3:03 mark, the car is in neutral. at 3:26 he shifts the car back into drive. at 3:40 he shuts the car DOWN. he is able to use the brakes and even steers the car into a 90 degree turn. again, that is with the car completey shut down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqcCGv0aolM

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. I think you should quit this thread before you make it certain

It's best to be quiet so people can only guess, rather than making it obvious.

[Fumesucker]

11. I learned to hypermile and did a lot of research into it back when gas was $5.00/gal or so..

One of the prime tricks in hypermiling is to coast as much as possible, in neutral, with both manual and automatic transmissions.

I've been doing it with an Expedition with the 5.4 and an overdrive automatic as well as an Acura 3.2 with a four speed automatic, I always put the transmission into neutral when coasting any significant distance.. The Expedition has a real time fuel mileage gauge as well as a tachometer, when coasting in neutral the tachometer reads at normal idle rpm while when coasting in gear it reads several hundred rpm higher in both vehicles, additionally the instantaneous fuel mileage is higher when coasting in neutral versus in gear in the Expedition.

The really fanatical hypermilers coast in neutral with the engine turned off which saves even the relatively small amount of gas used to keep the engine running at idle.

If I'm coming to a stop where I know I'll be sitting for more than a few seconds I turn the engine off and keep the transmission in neutral, I can almost always start the engine and get in gear before anyone behind me can tell I've done this.

Hypermiling requires a lot of attention to what you are doing in the car, paying attention to traffic flow and red lights in order to maintain maximum momentum.

According to the hypermiling forums there are very few automatic transmissions today that will not coast in neutral.

[sylveste]

10. what

you could lock the tires you want, the car isn't going to flip end over end. might flatspot your tires if you were going fast enough but thats about it.

[LostInAnomie]

12. That's ridiculous.

Locking your car's breaks will not cause your car to flip.