Kucinich: "I will vote yes only IF".....

[Mari333]

Getting to the Public Option

Now Mr. Kucinich says he would like to discuss changing his vote to a Yes. He wants 2 things in the House bill: A public option. And the ERISA amendment.

Turns out the majority of Americans agree with him. The most popular part of the bill is the public option, and with good reason. Skeptical as we are of the government, allergic as we are to wonkitude, we have no doubt whatsoever about what lies in store for us if we have to start forking over our premiums to the private insurance industry without the option to vote with our feet. We'll agree to pay up to get close to universal coverage. But we want a safe, affordable haven. The public option offers that, or at least the structural hope of something like that. Despite all that, we hear no end of excuses and proclamations from our elected leaders about why we can't have it. Last week, a local health advocacy group picketed Kucinich in his district for threatening to vote No on a bill without the P.O.








http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ellen-r-shaffer/thank-you-dennis-kucinich_b_499846.html

[2Design]

1. Michael Moore on Keith O show with Odonnel - he says this bill

will not cover the woman obama talked about in his speech today for at least four years

[grantcart]

3. and if they vote down the bill she gets covered tomorrow?

That's an argument for passing the bill 4 years ago not for defeating it now.

Moreover all of the other leading progressives on health care, including Dr. Dean, now want the bill passed.

[Kalun D]

11. Just because

Just because other spineless dems folded doesn't mean Kucinich should.

Let's see, after making back door deals with big Pharma and big health care Obama is for this bill without single payer or public option

Kucinich is against it. Michael Moore is against it.

That's about all you need to know. This bill favors the corporations.

[Dawgs]

17. Dr. Howard Dean and many MORE progressives are for it; so we should ignore them?

DK and MM are not the only ones worth listening too.

Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, and Paul Krugman (a liberal economist) are for it as well.

[Plucketeer]

50. I'm with you on this!

Dean, Obama, they don't know me from ANYBODY. But, in spite of the SCOTUS ruling, I'm still a citizen and free to speak as I see fit. Without a PO, this bill is a certain public subsidization of Health Ins. Companies. In fact, it gets folks insured alright - but paves the way for more premiun hikes as the companies make their case for more cost load.

No, Kucinich needs to stand his ground. We're screwed either way. Hell, we could make an argument for bringing the troops back home TODAY! A sure as the sun's gonna rise again, there's going to be more casualties in our ill-instigated wars. And there's not even a definable end in sight for those life & money-wasting fiascos!

No health care for FOUR years? People are going to die. But I also think about the ultimate cataclysm down the road, if we institute the proposed subsidies.

[daleanime]

56. Then lets give DK at least as much ground....

as was given to Liarman trying to get his vote.

[DeSwiss]

65. No. That's an argument for being FOOLED AGAIN by these clowns.

We need a a PUBLIC OPTION! I don't trust these jerks an inch. There is no need for promises about what they'll do for us tomorrow. Tomorrow may never come with these assholes.


- PUBLIC OPTION NOW!!!

[Left Coast2020]

67. I didn't know what ERISA was until I looked it up.

But it owrks for me since its been in law for many years. BTW, Public Op. is back in Reconcillation Bill on page 116. Link is here somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Retirement_Income_Security_Act

[Motown_Johnny]

4. and since people won't be getting ill 4 years from now.......

If we could get a better bill I would be with him.

We need to save the lives we can save. Letting more die because we can't save everyone is insane.

[Richardo]

25. Then why doesn't Michael Moore cover her treatment?

Big talk. No solutions.

[sabrina 1]

27. MM HAS covered treatment for people without it.

Eg, he covered the treatment of one of his rightwing enemies after he learned that he was unable, ironically, to afford it himself. He is apparently well and back to criticizing Moore. Some people are beyond learning, I suppose.

[DesertDiamond]

32. I didn't know MM did that for one of his enemies! He is such an amazing human being! Who was it?

[YOY]

34. It was in Sicko.

See the film. He didn't mention names. He also anonymously donated and did not reveal himself until after the check had been cashed and the film released.

He did so to not kick the individual in the face but to point out that they are really not supporting their own best interests.

[sabrina 1]

38. Here is a link to the story:

Michael Moore helps his biggest nemesis

It's not clear whether he wanted to be revealed as the donor. But his 'nemesis' is using the donation now to attack him. No surprise and I'm sure it's not a surprise to Mike either. At least his wife and he are alive and well, and that's the most important thing. I guess none of his rightwing friends were willing to help, even though that is their solution to everything 'let charity take care of it'.

[FedUp_Queer]

39. Here's why.

Yes, that seems like a cute and snarky thing to say (and who's to say he won't). However, that doesn't solve the problem. What about the next Natoma? The point is that there should be a mechanism for everyone to receive the treatment they need. Your suggestion is akin to Reagan giving a homeless guy $50 for food without understanding that that does not solve the larger problem.

[liberation]

43. Jeez, I must have missed the part where the DLC were paying for all those free clinics...

... talk about double standards.


So the DLC et al get to control the message and the agenda. And liberals have to pay up in order to have the right to express their personal opinions?

[The Hope Mobile]

53. And when they engineer a republican in to the presidency by then

it really won't matter cuz her/she will stop the whole thing, except the mandated insurance. The part about pre-existing conditions and ANY kind of regulation will be gone. This is just easing us into getting screwed more. And then they'll drop the part about corporations and businesses having to pay for benefits . . ie make it easier for them NOT to help insure us and that will be the very end of cost control. Wake up people. This bill is a nail in the coffin.

[prolesunited]

68. Actually, she qualifies for Medicaid

according to the hospital

[Motown_Johnny]

2. If they change even one word of the bill it needs to go back to the Senate

This looks like spin to me.

[subterranean]

6. I believe he's referring to the reconciliation bill.

They can't change the Senate bill, but they can put a public option in the reconciliation bill. Unfortunately, the president has no interest in doing that.

[ProSense]

5. "the ERISA amendment" Then he's voting no

More grandstanding. His amendment sucks.

Kucinich amendment, specifically states: "instead of the public health insurance option or the National Health Exchange."

Now why do you suppose Kucinich's amendment gained the support of 13 Republicans in committee?

Right now, what's to stop a Republican governor from requesting (not applying, but requesting) the waiver just to opt out of the national plan?

No support, no funding, just a desire.

[Massacure]

8. A Republican governor won't opt out because it would be a political third rail.

It would be like trying to opt out of medicare or social security; there would be hell to pay.

[ProSense]

16. When has a Republican ever cared about a political third rail?

They're campaigning on ending Medicare. Did you forget Bush's attempt to privatize Social Security?

A Republican governor, especially in deep red states (think Oklahoma), will not face the same (national) backlash.

[abluelady]

7. I Had No Idea

that the pre-existing condition wouldn't go into effect for four years. That is outrageous. With so many people losing their jobs and their employer's health insurance, what are those of us with pre-existing conditions to do? Maybe when I go to the doctor and they ask who is responsible for the bill, on the paperwork, I'll put my republican congresman.

[upi402]

Wait with your pre-existing condition for 4 years

Republicans will trounce the quasi-Dems over this, regain power without even cheating this time, and kill it without even having a majority. I'd bet real money on it.

[Greyhound]

35. Well hopefully, most of us will be dead before then and so will not be a further

burden. After all, if you can't work to make others rich, what purpose do you serve?
I wish this was really:sarcasm:

[pundaint]

41. don't worry you'll be able to pay three times the rate in a pool

[abluelady]

81. I'm Sure You're Right

Nobody is talking about the price of our premiums.

[LWolf]

9. k & r for the best Democrat standing. nt

[Swamp Rat]

10. Geaux Dennis!!!

:patriot:

[mzmolly]

12. Can't he say I'll vote yes if we have a separate public option amendment?

This is what Alan Green of Bold Progressives suggests and I think it's an excellent idea. IF we have the votes, it will pass. If not, we'll still have a start.

[harun]

13. I'm hoping Sanders introduces this amendment. Would be HUGE.

Even if it didn't pass we would at least get the list of traders to target.

[Individualist]

14. K&R

[berni_mccoy]

15. Looks like those may not even be necessary for his yes vote. That was reported yesterday

More updated reports saying he's now undecided
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7927724

Of course, he may be undecided pending on those, but I suspect he'll vote yes regardless at this point.

He's trying to soften the blow to his supporters at this point.

[mzmolly]

18. I'll have a new found respect for him if he votes yes.

He's got to do the right thing in the context of our times.

Thanks for the info Berni. :hi:

[sabrina 1]

29. He hasn't changed his position at all. He will vote 'yes' and

has always said so, if there is a PO in the bill. His statement this week was clear. No PO no 'yes' vote.

He is now one of at least 23 Democrats who have said they will vote 'no'. Others have not yet said how they will vote.

The more who demand a PO in return for their vote, the more likely we will get it.

Fighting Dems, we need so many more of them. And we need to get rid of the spineless weasels who can be pressured into doing what they know is wrong out of party loyalty. When the party is wrong, it is wrong to support them. Just as it was wrong for Republicans who supported their Party when they were doing the wrong thing.

[felinetta]

19. Screw you Moore. We have our foot in the door and you want to stop it. Screw you!

[YOY]

20. More like a foot in our ass.

And Mike Moore makes documentaries...Dennis actually is a politician.

[pundaint]

42. We believe the label...it says "reform"...don't wake us up...kill the messenger...yes master...

[liberation]

45. the term "foot in the door" does not mean what you want it to mean...

[julian09]

54. Micheal More said he would vote for the bill

but Obama would have to tell the truth about the bill
concerning when things kick in, etc to Laurance O Donell.
He knows this bill is better than nothing, he knows the realities
of passing the bill vs not doing so.

[YOY]

21. That crazy crazy extreme man.

:sarcasm:

[Ignis]

30. He's almost as crazy as the Democratic party platform.

Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.

Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.

-- http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

Crazy, I tell ya! Just plain mad!

[pundaint]

44. Obama didn't write the platform, nyah nyah.

[Ignis]

51. Yeah, pity the guy has so little power.

It's not like he campaigned on the public option or anything.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Kucinich is the best

Thank God for Kucinich. Dennis supports equal rights for all. I notice how many of those who trash him constantly are opposed to equality for religious posturing reasons. Same old handful.

[VMI Dem]

23. I support Kucinich.

[Myrina]

24. Well shit, they rewrote it to useless Lieberman's spec's, why not DK's?

DK makes a hell of alot more sense and stands with the average American 1000x more than Palpatine Lieberman ever will.

[Ignis]

31. "Palpatine Liberman"

Oh, thanks for the laugh in an otherwise depressing time. :thumbsup:

[snort]

26. Clinics

Doesn't this legislation include buttloads of public health clinics? It seems to be getting little mention but it sounds like a really good idea.

[SocialistLez]

28. Crumbs...crumbs....crumbs

Can't have anything worthwhile for the public without SOME sort of corporate giveaway.
Sickening.

[rhett o rick]

33. So is Rep Kucinich the only Demo not voting for the bill? Why isnt the president

putting pressure on the damn Blue Dogs?

[Ignis]

36. Because the DLC is running the show. (nt)

[Individualist]

37. Obama is a New Democrat; he'll never put pressure on the blue dogs.

[rhett o rick]

40. My question was rhetorical. nm

[reggie the dog]

55. The president IS A BLUEDOG!

[rhett o rick]

59. OMG. you said the unspeakable. nm

[tekisui]

70. Sure seems that way.

[Echo In Light]

46. k/r

[kgnu_fan]

47. America needs Self Respect - Kucinich shows us how to stand up for our own interest

[rhett o rick]

79. Principles. He stands for principles. nm

[Politicalboi]

48. Well then if this is right then it is in there

Breaking: Public Option in House Reconciliation Bill




http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=hzs7w

[SkyDaddy7]

49. Please help me understand something!!!!

All the polling I have read that took place before HCR started and after said there is not a majority in favor of single payer or public option...However, I keep reading many here on DU say the opposite.

I would LOVE to see the proof of this as I want to think this is true, can someone help me?


I am not looking to argue I am just one of those stubborn people who like evidence...Please understand this before laying into me as the enemy, I'm not!!!!

Evidence that supports this comment..."Turns out the majority of Americans agree with him. The most popular part of the bill is the public option, and with good reason."

Help???

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

52. I don't want to buy insurance but would pay for public option

insurance companes have preexisting conditions, coverage limits, can refuse coverage
and can drop coverage and increase rates at the drop of a hat.

[Gman]

57. Are we feeling a little heat on our butt, Mr Kucinich?

The GOP will be so disappointed if you vote yes, Mr. Kucinich. The GOP and the health care industry are in dire need of your vote. You intended to vote with them and the GOP. What happened?

[grahamhgreen]

58. The rest of the party turned into neo-con artists.

[SlingBlade]

60. He needs to tell 'em to please go fuck themselves

Let these Corporate Whores stand by their on creation.

[David Zephyr]

61. K&R.

After kissing right wing ass for one friggin' year, maybe, just maybe the White House might try to win one real liberal and EARN Dennis' vote.

K&R.

[Politicub]

62. When a poster compared Kucinich to Ghandi I realized

that debating the merits of his positions on health care was a lost cause.

[nightrain]

63. I said that Kucinich was in the same non-violent lineage as Gandhi, MLK,

Quakers, those who did marches and sit-ins, and other civil right protestors.

At least have the courage to state it correctly rather than pull some stunt.

In fact, you never addressed the issues I raised. Try some honesty.

[Politicub]

72. I'm not sure that he is - IMHO he practices a passive kind violence by

completely ignoring all of those that this bill will help.

But he has health care, so it's easier for him to take a hard line position.

So I disagree with your entire premise. To proclaim that Dennis Kucinich is in the same "lineage" of those were part of the movements that you talk about in your post - the Quakers, the civil rights protesters, MLK and Ghandi - discounts or ignores the times that they lived in and the odds they faced.

This argument will go nowhere because you and I fundamentally disagree about Kucinich and the motive behind his rhetoric.

[G_j]

78. uh

Just as MLK believed the philosophy of Gandhi was a winner, Kucinich also believes in it, and MLKs lasting contribution to nonviolence as a way of life.
I suppose you are calling him a liar and a fake. You can call me one too, but I've followed his career long enough to tell you his commitment to nonviolence isl a real one. Of course you don't have to believe me.

[Politicub]

80. I admit what I wrote is a little out there

I'm sure he is committed to non-violence. The Dept of Peace is a wonderful idea.

I hope he gets something positive included in the bill because of his stance. I'm happy to eat my words if I'm wrong. I'm not a politician -- I just watch from the sidelines.

Having said that, we dems need to do something to campaign on this Fall. Not passing a HC reform bill or other meaningful legislation will be political suicide. So that is where I'm coming from -- the desire to keep our majority for so many reasons. We'll all see how this kabuki plays out.

[G_j]

83. certainly

I am not a politician either, and I suppose, I don't think in terms of elections.
I really don't know what people will do if the bill fails.
I can't be convinced folks will hold it against Dems if they don't pass it.
The Rs were all against it anyway. I think a lot of the political damage has been done already.

[nightrain]

84. yes, you misrepresented my intent and my words. I don't appreciate it.

If you are angry/scared about the health insurance bill, then state THAT, rather than misconstrue my words and condemn a very honest and humble man.

IF that was an apology, I accept it. Inform yourself about lineages, rather than make grandstanding jokes and slights.

If there's a problem with the 2010 elections, then it's the legislators' responsibility, not ours! The "majority" hasn't shown to be worth much. The composition of the majority and their ability and willingness to work together has been pretty fatally flawed.

[Politicub]

85. Oh, please. Climb down from your cross because somebody needs the wood.

I can just envision the finger wagging blazing across the Internet.

[nightrain]

86. my aren't you the witty one. I guess that wasn't an apology then.

hard for you to recognize your errors? Okay. Learning how to apologize when you err will assist in your interpersonal relations.

[G_j]

73. that is true

Like MLK or Gandhi, he believes in the philosophy and practice of nonviolence.
Take his desire for a Department of Peace, for example.

[slipslidingaway]

71. Dennis Kucinich’s Acceptance Speech for the 2003 Gandhi Peace Award

http://www.pepeace.org/current_reprints/06/Dennis%20Kucinich.htm

Although, I nerve saw anyone compare him directly to Gandhi.

[Politicub]

74. Thanks for the link!

It was truly an honor for him to receive the award. I don't believe his stance on health care is in the same vein, though. I wish more were like him, except when it comes to his stance on HCR.

[slipslidingaway]

76. You're welcome, the Senate bill still leaves millions behind and will

cost our nation more, both in direct spending and the inability to keep up with other nations who offer universal health care.

Hopefully the bill was improved a bit.

[ProSense]

75. You do realize that's awarded by an American organization, right?

This is the The International Gandhi Peace Prize, named after Mahatma Gandhi, is awarded annually by the Government of India.

This is the award Kucinich received: Gandhi Peace Award

It's awarded by a U.S. organization.

[slipslidingaway]

77. It is the spirit of the award, we know you take a special interest in Kucinich. n/t

[pundaint]

64. If he switches to yes, I hope he has some pretty specific figures to justify his switch.

Lesser of two evils, or best we can get, will not be supportable even if he says it. I will lose some respect if he does this on "faith," because he certainly knows the value of that in congress.

[berni_mccoy]

66. According to Fineman on Countdown, he's switched. And no change in the bill.

[Mark dog]

69. That makes sense

Obama reportedly wants a public option, too.

[Major Hogwash]

82. If I .. If I .. were ki-i-i-i-i-ng.

The rabbits would show respect to me
The chipmunks genuflect to me
Though my tail would lash
I would show compash
For every underli-i-i-i-i-ng
If I .. if I .. were ki-i-i-i-ng
Just ki-i-i-i-ng!