Hey "kill the bill" folks... the RW is going "code red" over HCR. If what you say is true, WHY?

[scheming daemons]

If this bill is a giveaway to insurance companies, why are insurance companies emptying their treasuries in order to try to kill this bill?

If this bill will destroy the Democrats in the fall, why are the Republicans doing everything in their power to make sure it doesn't pass?



Sometimes you have to look at who is yelling the loudest about something to find out who it really helps and who it hurts.


If this bill was good for "Corporate America", then that same "Corporate America" wouldn't be throwing everything they possibly can at it in order to stop it. They'd be championing it.


When Rush Limbaugh decides to try and marshall his millions of brainless dittoheads to bombard the phones of their congressmen to get them to kill this legislation, you can pretty much rest assured that this legislation is NOT good for corporate America.


These people don't spend hundreds of millions of dollars to kill something that benefits them. It's insanity to think that they do.


Quit doing the RW's bidding. Pass the bill. They're trying to kill it for a reason... and that's because its passage is bad for them.

[Forkboy]

1. The plan could offer them a million dollars apiece and they'd be against it.

Their opposition has nothing to do with the bill being good or bad, it has to do with it coming from Democrats. Put an "R" in front of the exact same bill and they'd be tripping over themselves to support it (and conversely, many Dems for it would be then be against it for the same reason).

[gateley]

5. +1 -- and well said. nt

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YOY]

12. The elephant in the room.

Pardon the intentional pun.

[rpannier]

17. Ain't it the truth

[Starry Messenger]

33. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[Luciferous]

36. Yep!

[goclark]

2. You are making way too much sense

:bounce:

[rpannier]

18. What have the Democrats proposed that the Republicans haven't opposed

Except for military funding?

As to the insurance companies, I think they want to drag it out as long as possible

When the Bill passed the Senate their stocks all went way up
When Scott Brown was elected their stocks all went way up

I think they hope it will go on forever, because they seem to benefit no matter what.

I'm convinced no matter what Kucinich says tomorrow their stock will go up again

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. IMHO there's only two things really wrong with the bill

Mandates and fines. The rest of it is not AS bad despite it being a step in the wrong direction, and it clearly doesn't go far enough.

The mandates and fines are poison pills put there by the Republicans just in case it passes, and that's what I object to most.

[metapunditedgy]

11. Putting folks with "pre-existing conditions" into a "temporary high-risk pool"

also sucks. Might as well just throw money to the insurance companies. If they have any function, it's to do the actuarial calculations to determine what health care should cost. If they do the math well, they profit.

But it sounds like now we're saying the high-risk folks are not their problem. They only have to insure the people who are least likely to cost them money.

On edit: the insurance companies should be forced to include high-risk folks in their policies, of course. If they won't, then they should be dismantled.

[Cleobulus]

4. I don't know, and I don't care, the bill is going to be a complete fuckup for those...

who make just a little too much to qualify for medicaid and yet not enough to be able to USE the coverage they are required to buy.

[Skittles]

10. and THAT will increase profits for those thieves IMMENSELY

[walldude]

15. Bingo... that's me..

Right in that little hole they love to ignore.

[depakid]

6. Trying to reason based on the actions of the delusional is pointless

[Warpy]

7. They're telling the truth when they say it's Obama's Waterloo.

What they neglect to mention is that Obama is playing the part of Wellington.

Those corrupt bastards know they did nothing for us for the full 12 years they held power in Congress. They know that once they cut taxes on the richest and let Stupid have his wars to play with, they were totally out of things to do. Oh, they did pass a drug company profit protection bill to attach to Medicare, but mostly they just dinked around with trying to prolong an essentially dead woman's continued misery, flag burning amendments, and grandstanding over forcing Baptist prayers into public schools, none of which they managed to accomplish. They barely put in three days a week and will collect their full pensions for doing it.

I remember the same fits being pitched over Medicare and my dad remembered the same fits being pitched over Social Security. It's what Republicans do, find trillions for war but begrudge every dime spent to better people's lives in their own country.

Just expect the crazy to keep popping out all over. This has been a dizzying descent for them, from 5 years ago and crowing about a permanent Republican majority in government to today when all they can do is kick and scream in protest over what they should have done over a decade ago and failed to do as Democrats rightly roll right over them.

Now if Reid will only grow a backbone and tell those crybabies that if they want to threaten a filibuster, they'd better get down to the floor and start talking, we'll be rid of them as any sort of political force.

But yes, they're lying about healthcare reform destroying their opposition. And they know it.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pampango]

23. They would unanimously vote against anything Democrats proposed but they wouldn't spend

pour so much money into campaigning against something that would benefit their corporate sponsors. Their opinion may be irrelevant but the sums of money spent to defeat HCR are not.

Voting against HCR, while not spending money to defeat it because you secretly want, might be a smart political game of chess for republicans. That way they score political points with teabaggers and others, while "guaranteed profits". But to pour so much money into an anti-HCR campaign is not very smart if they secretly want the bill to pass.

[Skittles]

25. it's an election strategy

watch how it pans out in November

it's a win/win for them - if the bill is killed they can say they defeated Obama - if the bill passes, the bill itself will do their campaining for them

[pampango]

27. Unanimously voting against HCR (and practically everything else) is an election strategy, I agree,

but pouring money into ad campaigns to defeat a bill that that secretly want to pass would be just stupid.

Votes in Congress are sometimes (frequently, almost always?) cast based on the effect on the next election, but I don't remember when interest groups spent their money to play mind games (we're pretending to be for it but we're really against it or vice versa) rather than to directly pass or defeat legislation according to their perceived interests.

Harry and Louise didn't pretend to support Clinton's HCR in order to confuse us as to the HIC's attitude towards the HCR effort of the day. The HIC's wanted to defeat that HCR so they poured money into ads starring Harry and Louise which helped them do it. Now HIC's pour money into ads to defeat HCR and we wonder if they are playing mind games with us.

[Skittles]

28. WTF?

they do NOT "secretly want it to pass". Failure for them will save them money come election time.

[DCBob]

29. +1

well said.

[Fading Captain]

9. Appearances

If you haven't figured it out yet, Dem vs Rep is just a fucking entertainment program that fools everyone into believing we actually have a say in things.

And as long as enough of it believe it we have a say, then the wealthy can continue to fuck us over without worrying about a serious threat.

[Marr]

13. You're talking about very different groups here.

Rush Limbaugh and the GOP are going to oppose it because that's what they do. You ask why they wouldn't support the bill if they really think people will be angry about it and punish the party that forced it through. Well, you kind of answered your own question. The Democrats can pass it without Republican support.

As for Corporate America throwing everything they have into defeating this bill... where are you getting that from? I've seen a lot of very friendly coverage of Obama's HCR approach in the corporate media every since they started signalling that the Public Option was out. That was months and months ago.

If you're talking about lobbyists... well, again, that's what they do. They're not going to stop pushing for more until the gavel drops.

[ericinne]

14. hmm.........

If this bill will destroy the Democrats in the fall, why are the Republicans doing everything in their power to make sure it doesn't pass?

I guess that's the question that makes me say PASS THE BILL. I unfortunately, am forced to listen to Faux News in the afternoon while I am at work, it absolutely drives me up the wall even hearing someone like Beck or Hannity ranting on in the distance, but when I do listen, all I hear from them and their guests are "IF THE DEMOCRATS PASS THIS, THEY ARE FINISHED" and I guess, all I can think when I hear that.. is "WELL, WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU TRYING TO STOP THEM THEN?" You would think if that were even remotely true, they'd stand aside and LET the Democrats finish themselves off instead of repeatedly talking shit about "STOPPING THIS MADNESS".

[Lorien]

16. The RW opposes it purely for political reasons. The oppose ANY "win" for team Obama

simply because they fly a different banner. They also know how hugely unpopular the mandates will make the Dems in November, and they'll be able to say "well, WE didn't vote for it"! They'll have their cake and eat it, too.

[rpannier]

20. +100000

Unless it's military funding, they'll vote against anything substantive the Democrats propose

If the Democrats proposed a 'National Hug Your Pet Day' they'd oppose it because it didn't include your neighbors pet, or there was no cost analysis done, or why does it say 'Pet' instead of 'Animal' or 'Non-human Companion'

With them it doesn't matter, they're impossible.

[readmoreoften]

19. This is almost word-for-word the post of another Obama supporter from earlier today.

Talking points of the day?

[laughingliberal]

24. And not the first time we've seen it at that point

If the Republicans oppose it, it must be good! Not necessarily. They are opposing it just to deny the President a victory. If they wrote the damned bill themselves and Obama said he supported it, they'd vote against it.

[TheWraith]

21. A-fucking-men.

NEWSFLASH: Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Mitch McConnell, et al do not have the best interests of the Democratic Party at heart.

[Tarheel_Dem]

22. The "kill the bill" folks are major fucking hypocrites. I thought the original

intent of healthcare reform was to expand healthcare coverage. But we're quickly finding out that they're only after the insurance companies. I'm no fan of insurance companies, but if more people get covered, and insurance companies are at last regulated, I'll be happy. We have to start somewhere, and if Dems become the permanent minority, so be it. Let the purists find out, the hard way, what can really happen with a hard rightwing USSC, White House, and Congress.

I mean, we've got teabaggers and/or teabagger sympathizers on the highest court in the land. If the left chooses to become complacent, or disengaged, out of anger or lack of a pony, we'll deserve whatever the hell we get.

[girl gone mad]

26. WHat you fail to understand is that a lot of people who are uninsured..

have opted out of the system by choice and found viable health care solutions. Now these people are being forced into the system and the two best market price controls we currently have are being largely removed. Costs will rise as a result.

[Tarheel_Dem]

32. blah. blah. blah.... Your tune never changes. Damned if you do, and

damned if you don't. If you don't want to participate, then pay the damned fines. Since you're such a charitable soul, your fines will help cover the costs of providing healthcare to some 30 mil currently uninsured.

Sometimes a screen name says a thousand words, and yours suits you to a tee.

[DCBob]

30. Totally agree.. Hopefully DK's presser today to announce his vote switch..

will chill the kill-the-bill folks.

[MadHound]

31. Because gee, by having hysterical fits the RW has managed to get virtually everything they wanted

Perhaps they'll get something else before all is said and done.

Besides, got to keep up that appearance of a two party system that actually oppose each other:eyes:

[mmonk]

34. This is the last insult I intend to take.

It's about trying for a good bill for the people. Republicans will oppose anything Obama does no matter how right he goes. It works with their constituents. When Democrats twist Lincoln's or Liberman's arm instead of DK's, you'll have a point

[karynnj]

35. Excellent comments - and very logical