Obama's Popularity

[djohnsper]

I hate to say this, but it is as clear as day to me what's going on.
Nothing against Obama, I like his thinking and his and as a liberal
I think he would make a good President. BUT....I can help but think this
is a manipulation. To put it bluntly, if Obama or Hillery get the nom
for Dem president, the Repuke (whoever it may be) will win the general election.
Sadly, this country is too biggeted and backward to elect a woman or a black
man for Pres.

So, my conclusion is that these two candidates are being pushed by the media and higher up's
for a Republican win in Nov 08. WAKE UP AMERICA its so obvious. I wish I were wrong but
lets be real.

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. if you say so.....

:eyes:

[jaysunb]

2. I may have agreed w/ you awhile back

but in todays environment, either can win.

btw, welcome to DU

[David Zephyr]

5. I'm with you here.

Either one can win. I just believe that Obama has the edge.

[bunkerbuster1]

74. I'll say it again--if Douglas Wilder can win over Virginians in 1989

Barack Obama can win over a majority of Americans in 2008.

Yes, race matters. No, it is not a deal killer with most white voters. We shouldn't allow ourselves to imagine that it is, not to the extent that it prevents us from backing the candidate with the most to offer (which, FWIW, Obama still needs to prove he is that candidate, to me.)

[Colobo]

3. So, who are you supporting?

Go to the point and tell us who you think is the best choice.

[djohnsper]

7. It really is too early........

But if I had to choose, it would be Edwards or Biden.

[Erika]

4. Either Hillary or Obama would wipe out any GOP candidate

You see the losers the GOP has lined up? Most of them can't stand their own candidates. What a farce.

[MadBadger]

6. I find myself surprisngly thinking that Obama has a better chance than Hillary

I would have never thought even two years ago that a black person could win the presidency. But I think he does have a genuine chance. I think that Hillary's unfavorables are the thing that would kill her, not people's tendancies to vote against a woman.

[ChiciB1]

8. If Someone Pushed Me To Bet... I Would Bet That You're Theory

is a winner! I've thought this about Clinton Almost from the beginning!

WELCOME to DU... get ready for a ride! In time you will find a NEED to "take a leave" from here cause it can get very very hectic!

I've had to stay away for weeks at a time, but I come back for more!

I'm an Edwards supporter and have taken my lumps for it! I try very hard NOT to get involved with the "piling on" of ANY of our candidates. But I myself feel that Clinton & Obama may drop as time goes by. I still feel Obama is good material, but think it would be best that he try the VP spot first.

I'm outta here for tonight!

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[djohnsper]

15. I type fast, sorry.

[MadBadger]

16. Its okay, I have found that people here tend to be sticklers when it comes spelling

Just ignore.

[Tarheel_Dem]

18. No it's not okay to savage the English language.....

assuming that English is your primary language. If you take the time to author a post, please take the time to run a spellcheck. It's just common courtesy.

[babylonsister]

10. They aren't being 'pushed by the media', they are both raising a

helluva lot of money, which means someone likes them. So let's be real...

Maybe the US has progressed a tad, though I'm still undecided about that.

[Erika]

13. I think we may be sick as to what white men have done to this nation

And are very much ready for a change. Look at the USSC.

[nevergiveup]

11. Things are changing

in America. Initially I was skeptical but with each passing day I am becoming more and more convinced that he actually could win and I agree with you that he would "make a good President".

[Erika]

21. Obama has class, intelligence, and a wonderful wife

I would have no problem in voting for him. And he represents the new America.

[dave_p]

12. Not buying it

I often suspect when a candidate like Obama appears from nowhere that there's a media agenda to divide existing allegiances by throwing in another player. But if that was their game, in this case I think they came up with a good choice. Hillary's a different matter - she has the name, the connections, the machine, so she didn't need such a boost. So I don't really buy it.

I do think '08 will be won on policies. The smear machine will be on overdrive, so forget personalities - everybody's name will be mud before this is over. A victorious Democrat will be one who can rip the GOP record to shreds on principled grounds. And Democrats will need to learn to enjoy the taste of blood.

[karynnj]

65. He didn't appear from nowhere - he gave the key note speech

at the 2004 convention and did a brilliant job. He took an opportunity and made the most of it.

Where did Bill Clinton come from in 1992? The time he was seen on the national stage was giving the key note speech for Dukakis. His speech was actually LESS successful than Obama's.

The desire for Cuomo to be President was partially based on his excellent keynote speech.

You could argue that the party only gives these opportunities to people they see as future stars and in both Clinton's and Obama's cases it was not based on their records, but their perceived potentials.

Unfortunately, I agree with you that this will be a race filled with smears - it already has been nasty. I really think this was the wrong message to take from the Republican's disgraceful smearing of Senator Kerry in 2004. It worries me that if the Republicans are smart, they will back away from smearing in their primaries. I suspect the country is sick of smearing. It could be that we lost 2004 because the Republicans smeared an honorable man and that we may lose a race that should be ours for the taking in 2008 because we are seen as the ones smearing then.

In 2006, there was a real chance to claim that things had changed. Senator Kerry came to the defense of at least 3 new congressional candidates who were vets, whose records were smeared - and they all won. In each case, the opponent was hurt by having attacked. Had the party unified behind Kerry - pointing to his decade long record of helping vets - that smear could have been defeated too.

That could have been another case where we stopped the spiralling RW echo chamber. There were at least two choices - defeating the smear machine and keeping our own integrity and joining the Republicans in the gutter. Wolfson's comment that swiftboating works does not bode well.

[lonestarnot]

14. You have 20/20 vision spot-on.

[Nia Zuri]

17. I'm black and I agree with you...

No way in hell is this ocuntry going to elect a black president. Get real. This is a total set up by the republicans. Much as I love Obama, we need to get real here.

[Erika]

19. No, you need to get real

You don't think Blacks are acceptable? Where's your proof? Obama is drawing crowds and donations.

Where are your stats that Blacks couldn't be elected? Got any?

[MadBadger]

20. And since a Black person has never been elected President, you have no proof that one can.

We will just have to wait and see on that.

[Erika]

22. I would like to see stats that show he can't be

So far the enthusiasm and donors are there. What am I missing?

[MadBadger]

23. Your not missing anything. We just dont know if it is possible

The democratic primary is a hell of a lot different than the general election. You are going to find a lot more racists and closet racists on the other side and maybe even some independents who may have trouble voting for a black person.

I personally think it can be done, but we wont know for sure until it is.

[Erika]

25. So, you are saying he is going to be elected/not elected

based on his race? You are really saying that. Really?

[MadBadger]

27. No, I am not saying that.

I have no idea what is actually going to happen.

[Erika]

29. Sure sounded like it n/t

[MadBadger]

31. I can see people not voting for him because of his race, yes.

THere are racists in this country. But that was all I said really. So I'm confused what you are taking exception to.

[Erika]

33. And you can see people voting against Hillary because she's a woman

Gotcha.

[MadBadger]

34. Sure, of course there are people that wont vote for Hillary because she is a woman

To think there arent male chauvinists out there is ridiculous.

[Erika]

35. or racists, right?

[MadBadger]

37. Yea?

THere are racists out there who wont vote for Obama and Chauvinists who wont vote for Hillary. What are you getting at?

[Erika]

38. Your perception

Most Americans have moved on.

[MadBadger]

39. The keyword is most

Most may have moved on, but Im willing to bet all my positions that not all have moved on.

[never cry wolf]

68. The racists and chauvinists won't vote for a Dem anyway

Dems support equal opportunity for all, you don't need to be black or female for the idiots not to vote for you.

[babylonsister]

36. They once said that about a Catholic, and Kennedy was elected.

Just sayin'...

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[Tarheel_Dem]

57. talk about bad taste, that response is totally inappropriate....n/t

what next, are you gonna take a crack at MLK, RFK. Totally not funny.

[babylonsister]

58. He was elected despite all the naysayers. Just sayin'. nt

[tavalon]

45. Yeah, I'm surprised this isn't discussed more

I'm a woman and I know that we haven't progressed (may never progress to that place) where a woman has a rat's chance of being elected. And Hillary is plenty divisive even if she had a penis. Obama might slip through but it will only be because the white folk think he's just a dark white guy.

I guess these things aren't talked about because they aren't PC but I think a little frank discussion about this is long overdue. The only way we will ever get past these bigotries is to lance the boils, lance them again and again until we start to heal.

[Erika]

24. Obama's got people running scared.

I love it.

[Nia Zuri]

75. Yeah scared that his candidacy will ensure another GOP win

I really admire the optimism of some of the folks on DU. Some of you think the state of racial affairs in this country is better than it is. You know your own heart, your firends, acquaintances, etc. they would hypotehtically vote for a black man. But. believe me, racism is alive and well & that is what they are counting on. They know that the state of the GOP is so banged up, it would take something extreme for them to eek out a winin '08...ummm like a black Dem candidate?

[Name removed]

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[Erika]

28. You put that so succinctly. n/t

[Blue-Jay]

30. True. I don't mince words.

[Erika]

32. Very refreshing n/t

[bling bling]

40. I wish the search feature was working.

But whatever. Have a good time. That goes for you and your like-minded friend here.

:hi:

[Alacrat]

41. I think the country is more than ready!

Either one(Hillary or Obama) will win against the current crop of repubs. The pukes hate their candidates. From what I gather, unless they have another option besides rudy or mclame, they may even consider not voting.

If the repubs won't vote for a repub, why would anyone else vote for one?

The only possible puke candidate most seem to get excited about is fred thompson, who isn't even running.
Until thompson announces, if he does, it's hard to say how well he would be received by gop voters, much less the fence riders. I don't think he would be very appealing to mainstream voters, when compared to the Democratic nominee.

I believe the next President will plot our country's course for many years after they leave office, just as chimps 8 years will take far more than 8 years to fix. These are serious times, and it's time for a change. I believe most voters know this, as was proven in 06. I don't believe prejudice will be put before good common sense.

Our country is truly gone if prejudice puts another puke in the People's House in 08.

IMO, unless the gop pulls a miracle out of their elephant's ass, they don't have a chance in 08. That doesn't mean we can let our guard down, much less celebrate the big win until it's over. I just hope we make it until 08 with the right to vote.

[Erika]

46. Good point. The GOP hate their candidates

They are more divided than I've ever seen them. They want a white male evangelical who is a moderate socially progressive. LMAO.

[Atman]

42. I think I posted this "theory" as recently as yesterday.

The GOP is out to steal the election again. Even if Hillary or Obama COULD win, either of them in the general election will put us back into the "razor thin margin" category, providing a close race easy to steal, or an "excuse" for the GOP guy winning. Over all, though, I think it's much more basic...Flyover State Americans won't vote for a black man or a white woman. They just won't do it. We pointy-headed Northeastern liberals and those crazy left-coast granola-eaters think we've somehow become a really progressive country since 2004, when every indication is that the nation has back-slid even closer to the fifties.

Obama and Hillary are the corporate faves because neither of them actually stands a chance, and they'll both provide tons of fake excitement for the corporate media to cover (read: ad revenue). Sadly, I think you're right. We're being played. As usual.

.

[MadBadger]

43. Thats bullshit that they dont stand a chance

They have a great chance. Obama I think will have a better chance, but they still will have a great chance.

[Erika]

44. I'm a Idahoan

And Obama has a chapter here. You need to do some rethinking. People have had it with the stodgy white males.

[Atman]

48. I wish I could share your optimism.

I don't disagree about lots of people being fed up with the white males. I'm more concerned that the "black" and "woman" angles provide convenient built-in "reasons" for when the right "wins" again.

.

[Erika]

51. Those days are over, my friend

The youths are now invigorated. And they aren't followers of white males who have made this world such a mess.

[MadBadger]

53. Well, Edwards still has a chance though. Unless are you only talking about white republican males?

[Erika]

55. I would have no problem with an Edwards/Obama ticket

or the other way around. Or a Hillary/Edwards ticket.

The message this time is that race and sex is not the defining issue. Something many GOP can't comprehend.

Let them put up their stodgy white males.

[Dawgs]

66. "The message this time is that race and sex is not the defining issue."

...or many DUers can't comprehend.

[babylonsister]

54. And they are SICK of rethugs! nt

[caledesi]

62. Amen! nt

[enfield collector]

78. I think you're analysis is spot on, unfortunately.

[Blue-Jay]

47. The OP's viewpoint is completely without proof, reason, or substantiation.

(IS THAT FUCKING BETTER?)

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Tarheel_Dem]

50. Thank you Blue-Jay...

:toast:

[Atman]

52. Wow.

:eyes:

Okay then...so, for that matter, neither is yours. No one is forced to agree with every opinion posted on this message board. The OP is as free to post his as you are yours.

.

[Blue-Jay]

60. I love the rolling eyes.

That means that I've just been humbled by someone who is obviously smarter than me.

Way to go, genius!

[Atman]

64. Sorry, Jay...they weren't directed at you.

I used a "forbidden word" apparently in my post...it was deleted almost before I could get my finger off the send button. Peace, man. They eyes weren't for you.

.

[illinoisprogressive]

59. sorry for the sarcasm but, I suspected you to be a troll at first. sorry

[saltpoint]

61. Have to disagree. We have all kinds of electable people while the Thugs are

struggling just to keep their base halfway satisfied.

Fred Thompson -- FRED THOMPSON -- has as much chance of being the GOP nominee as any of their "frontrunners," and THAT is pathetic.

Your 2008 electoral college are belong to us.

The blue team wins.

[Skittles]

63. yes, let's pander to the backward and the bigoted

:thumbsup:

[info being]

67. Bingo...I came to the same conclusion

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. I'm sure you're very concerned.

Thanks for expressing your opinion that women and blacks shouldn't run for president.

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

70. so what great white father should people support?

maybe someone needs to let Clinton and Obama know they are being manipulated by the media and higher ups to ensure a republican win. I'm sure they would both appreciate being told they are being duped. I'm sure neither of them would want to take away from the white man that could really win!

Hey! maybe they are part of the dupe?!?!?!

So...maybe they are running, knowing they can't win, so both can help to elect a republican! Because deep down, both Obama and Clinton want to lose and they just love the thought of helping to elect another republican. Besides, neither of the two seem like the type to challenge bigotry or break barriers. Maybe there's a deal...and Obama and Clinton get something in return for helping the media and those higher ups

Or maybe they are both just too stupid to know they are being used?

Hmmmmmm.....so they are either complicit or stupid?

WOW. Thanks!

it's just all so clear to me now.

without a doubt, there are some sexist and bigoted folks in America...

[Nia Zuri]

71. People will come out in droves to vote AGAINST them in the general election.

It will mobilize the baselike you wouldn't believe. It is really naive to think that Obama can win in this country. That is all.

[VOX]

76. And in which electoral-vote-rich states will this massive redneck voter turnout occur?

Texas? :sarcasm: IMO, the larger number of any anti-Obama voting bloc will be contained in the current Red States. They can scream, shout, jump up and down and vote against him all they want, but there are only so many Red State electoral votes to be had.

As usual, it'll probably be the voting in Ohio and Florida that will eventually carry the day. That's where the last two presidential elections were decided, and there's no reason to think that 2008 will be any different.

Obama **can** win in California, in New York, In illinois, etc. I don't see him losing any current Blue State at all. Even Pennsylvania should not pose a major problem.

Of course, this scenario presupposes that there will be a fair election, and that all ballots will be properly counted. **That's** the #1 concern, IMO.

[LadyJD]

72. Yours is obviously the voice of experience

My guess is that you have been around awhile. I too get suspicious when a Democratic candidate gets fawned over by the media. I am pretty sure that the American public was fed up with Vietnam in 1972 but Nixon still wiped out McGovern. There is a big difference between the values that we Americans say we hold and actually putting those values into practice (such as electing a black man or a woman as President). As much as I admire the enthusiasm of the idealists among us, I believe we get much farther by being realistic about the voters of our country.

[AtomicKitten]

73. b-a-l-o-n-e-y

Why some here persist in trying to hamstring the Dem top contenders boggles the mind, unless it is for ulterior motives like shilling for another candidate. Hmmmmmmm.

[barneo]

77. New here/Obama Fan

I would like to the think that the people of this day and age would be a bit beyond this way of thinking and would be looking at the big picture and the individual themselves for the goodness of the country.

[Aristus]

79. Hey, barneo!

Welcome aboard! :bounce:

You're right; Americans should just be able to get past differences of color and religion and whatnot, but in this day and age, it's more difficult than ever.

The Repubs like to point to Colin Powell and Condi Rice as evidence that they are "colorblind", and that the GOP is a "big tent". :rofl: Sorry...almost said that with a straight face, too.

How many would admit out loud that they only approve of Powell and Rice because they are in subservient roles? how many loyal Repubs would vote for a black man if he made it on to the Republican Presidential ticket? That's a different kettle of fish.

Good to see you, barneo!

Step into the Lounge and let me buy you a cool one. :toast::beer: