The Bandwagon Fallacy (Informal Logical Fallacy)

[readmoreoften]

If everyone jumps on a bandwagon (whether under duress or willingly) it suddenly doesn't mean that the wagon is going in the right direction. For example, if 100% of legislators voted for sending troops to Iraq, it wouldn't have suddenly made it good policy because the few remaining holdouts caved in.

100% agreement doesn't make bad policy "good". It just means the left opposition to mandated insurance within the party now has 0% representation. The next question to discuss is whether there is a viable "democratic" wing left in the Democratic Party. Or is the party *wholly and in fact* the property of the DLC/New Democrats with a few dissenters allowed to ruffle feathers (within reason) in order to maintain the illusion of a big tent?

[ShortnFiery]

1. This is exactly how "hopeless" I felt right before the Iraq Invasion.

Most everyone was convinced that it was the right thing and to "just get it over with."

We are making a huge mistake. Our party will be out of power for several election cycles. :(

[readmoreoften]

4. With Iraq, we had a few "principled" holdbacks to make us feel represented.

Apparently, those days are over. The truth is that the Republicans are, by definition, an ongoing problem. There is no final defeat of them, by definition, in a two party system. The real loss is the Democratic party, which defeated itself trying to both appease and destroy them. In the end, it became a kinder, gentler version of them. It's a disaster, really.

[ShortnFiery]

10. We have fully morphed into a Corporate Duopoly. It's over, The People LOST.

Voting doesn't matter anymore because both parties are beholden to the large corporations.

http://www.counterpunch.org/kuzminski08182004.html

The coming darkness is the eclipse of American political freedom and the unchecked reign of a venal, arrogant, and ignorant ruling class. Onerous as its depredations at home are likely to be, even more omnious is its immoral, illegal, and criminal policy of preemptive war abroad. There is no end to the war on terrorism, since a terrorist is increasingly defined as anyone who opposes the duopoly at home or abroad.

In a dark age, it is the responsibility of those who care about things like political freedom and democracy to struggle to ensure that those values somehow survive and are transmitted to future generations, even if they can no longer play an effective public role, much as the monks of the middle ages preserved the learning of antiquity for a better day. That day will come, but likely not in our time.

[msongs]

2. support hrc = save obama's presidency lol after he slacked on it for a year nt

[KittyWampus]

3. You seem to subscribe to the "doing nothing will accomplish something" fallacy.

[readmoreoften]

6. The bandwagon fallacy is an *actual* fallacy in informal logic. You, on the other hand, are just

babbling.

[dmallind]

12. Sure - but it also does not mean that bandwagons are wrong either

The fallacy works both ways.

[Oregone]

8. And that is a fine example of a Straw Man

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. Nizkor.org is a great source for fallacy reference.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

A site originally conceived to fight Holocaust denial. They mean business.

[TheWraith]

7. Or it could simply be the fact that YOU ARE WRONG.

But you'll never consider that possibility.

[Prism]

9. Well, I find all of it revealing

The thing is, a major centerpiece of the "Why we're better than Republicans" claim is how we're not lemmings, we don't march in lockstep, we don't do whatever our party leaders tell us.

Except, of course, when we do.

And this health insurance giveaway is a major of illustration of just how lockstep the party can be.

But the trick is, some of us were actually telling the truth about that lockstepping. We really don't get into it. If Jesus Christ himself descended from heaven, bathed in holy light, and told me "I support health insurance reform!" I'd still form my own opinion about it and people repeating a thousand times "Jesus is for this!" wouldn't make a dint.

Appeals to authority are just that.

The professional political class doesn't want their major initiative for the past year to go down in flames. Am I supposed to be surprised they're going to the mat now that desperation is in their nostrils? Once they perceived "Uh oh, we might not get the signing ceremony!"

Of course not. I have always thought they'd get that signing ceremony. It's what this is all about. The history books. The legacy. The idea that these politicians can claim to have Done Something Big. Clinton was all about this, and look where that left vast swaths of working Americans. We're still trying to climb out from the wreckage.

So we finally figured out just what our politicians will fight to the death over. Not liberal policies, not single-payer, not economic reconstruction, not the public option, not LGBT rights, not women's reproductive freedom. They will double down and scratch out the eyes of anyone who stands in the way of their Victory Parade.

My priorities are somewhat different, but when your party has decided they're going to march perilously close to those cliffs, sometimes the only thing you can do is watch.

Which is what we're doing right now.

[ShortnFiery]

11. With full respect to you ...

as you express yourself in words in a talented and thoughful way ...

BUT .... IMO, FUCK the political ruling elites' Victory Parade! :grr:

[Prism]

13. I keep forgetting

I always want to refer to the bill as Signing Ceremony Reform, but I only remember long after I've posted.

But it's what all of this really is.

Man, once that ceremony was in trouble, the party and the president went berserk.

But this may be useful to us in the future. After all, we're always told Congress and the President are practically powerless when it comes to so many issues. They just can't get it done like that. "They're not Bush or Republicans, you know!"

Well, now we do know. Now we know very well.

[Mari333]

14. yep. when Bush invaded Iraq I was against it even when a lot of spineless dems voted for it

just because its a dem running things doesnt mean its a good idea.

but, than, the DLC is just another wing of the right it seems.


corporate parties, both of them.