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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:09 PM
Original message
DEVASTATING REPORT: If HCR Bill Doesn't Pass, it's Game Over by 2020
An analysis by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation analyzes what happens if the currently proposed HCR does not happen. It's a frightening picture that shows only the wealthy receiving health care and the fundamental destruction of the middle class. Yes, we are in a crisis now. Without immediate reform, the consequences are a cataclysm to the unsustainable socio-economic foundation of the U.S.

Summary here: http://www.rwjf.org/healthreform/product.jsp?id=57449

Report here: http://www.rwjf.org/files/research/57449.pdf

What happens if the current HCR Bill doesn't pass? Some highlights:

-The number of uninsured Americans could grow by 10 million people in just five years, and spending on government health care programs for the poor could more than double by 2020

- By 2015, there could be 59.7 million people uninsured. The number could swell to 67.6 million by 2020.

- Middle-class households would suffer most without reform, 28% of middle-class households uninsured by 2020.

- Only 23% of employers would offer any form of coverage, and those will see an increase in costs by more than 79%.

From their conclusion:

Without significant reform that makes health insurance more accessible and affordable while reducing the rate of health care cost growth over time, the number of uninsured and health care spending would both increase dramatically. The ranks of the uninsured would increasingly be filled with middle-income, higher-income, and older individuals who have coverage now. Medicaid enrollment would increase because of the erosion of private coverage. Costs per enrollee would also increase because of medical care inflation. As a result, the cost of financing public programs would place added burden on taxpayers. The rising cost of caring for a growing number of uninsured persons through safety net programs would also add to taxpayer burdens. Employers would face sharply increasing health care premiums and as a result, many small and medium-sized firms would
stop offering coverage.

...
If reforms like those recently passed by the House and Senate are enacted, government expenditures would increase more than they would without reform because of increases in Medicaid eligibility and enrollment and subsidies to low-income people. Increases in Medicaid spending would be tempered because there would be less erosion of private insurance and coverage would be available through the exchanges. Spending on uncompensated care for the uninsured would also fall. The increases in government expenditure would also be affected by the cost containment provisions ultimately enacted. Employer spending would also grow under reform, though it should be lower for small firms who have access to exchanges and tax credits. Comprehensive health reform would stem the continuous erosion in the number of Americans with health care coverage and make coverage more affordable for a large number of lower- income families. Reform would also decrease financial pressures on the hospitals and clinics that provide care to the uninsured, reduce many system inefficiencies, and ultimately improve the health and financial security of Americans. While enacting health reform will be difficult and expensive, the cost of failure is also high and probably unsustainable.


In other words, the currently proposed reform has a cost, but that cost is:
1. Planned, budgeted and paid for
2. Provides coverage to 32 million Americans, preventing a much faster increase in costs on Medicaid and Medicare
3. Covers the poor and excluded
4. Prevents an unsustainable train-wreck that we are currently headed for if nothing is done. This disaster will lead to the unnecessary deaths of millions of people.

If we fail to pass this HCR, millions will needlessly die, the economy would utterly fail and our society would enter a disastrous condition that hasn't been seen since the great depression.

The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation is the country's largest philanthropic organization dedicated solely to health and health care.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Then let's fucking pass it.
I think the chances are good that we will.

K&R

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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. POTTYMOUTH!!!!!
:rofl:

(i agree, fuckers!)

:hug:

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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. That I am........
Proud of it too!

:rofl:

:hug:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. You said "fuck."
:P
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Why, yes, my dear Will.......
I did.

I often do.

I love to say it from time to time...

It belies my sweet old lady image...

:P
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. You skipped right over this
while reducing the rate of health care cost growth over time

There is little if anything in this bill to do this. All the controls are on insurance rates, and there are precious little specifics on that. The actual cost of health CARE isn't particularly addressed by this Health Insurance Industry Stimulus Package.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Access to health care really isn't addressed either only "coverage"
Out of pocket expenses will still keep a lot of people from getting the care they need.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I'll take their analysis over yours thanks. If you want to challenge their credentials,
I suggest you take it up with them.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. It's the basis of the analysis
That analysis is based upon the presumption that the bill will get control of health care costs. However, it does not describe how that would occur.
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Threedifferentones Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Nice logic there
He is publicly acknowledged as an authority, and you're not, so his take MUST be right.

The very title of this article is misleading. What it means to say is if we get no reform we're all soon to be fucked. What needs addressing is just how much better than totally fucked this bill will make us.

The progressives who are against this bill want more reform, and better reform, not none.

Obama is going to sign whatever bill passes and call it great. By the time it's consequences are rendered, he'll be long past needing to worry about reelection. All he needs to do is convince us now that he and his Congressional majority are doing well. Meanwhile, both parties continue to crawl deeper into bed with insurance and pharma lobbyists.

This bill does not diminish private control over insurance, it enhances it. Single payer, which is the standard of the rest of the industrialized world, was never on the table, even as a bargaining chip. A public option could be a reasonable substitute, but only if it is open to any citizen to sign up. This bill does not govern the price of medicine. Canada is still buying it's medicine, often from American companies, for a cheaper rate than Americans or our government!

The repubs make a huge stink over the government helping anybody, so that the Dems can sell a shitty deal to the American public as the best we can hope for. Notice, however, that those Democrats in Washington are all doing more than fine for themselves, mostly because they "do business" with 99% of the same companies as Republicans.

We all know healthcare needs a huge overhaul, but you, berni, do not seem to know that there a lot of reasons to suspect the one we are getting is taking us in the wrong direction. Perhaps because you don't really do analysis yourself, but instead rely on authorities?
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Because there will be less people passing the costs of their care onto taxpayers it is a cost
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 02:28 PM by county worker
reduction. Also if fraud and abuse are really reduced it is a cost reduction. It is the cost to government that is reduced.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Huh?
you're discussing the cost of insurance, not the cost of health care. And the cost of their insurance will be subsidized BY the government, so it is a cost increase. The calamities described in that report were for the consumers of health insurance. Without cost controls on health CARE the cost of insurance is going to rise dramatically. And all his commissions are primarily aimed at controlling the cost of insurance premiums.

This bill does not particularly address health CARE costs, nor the issue of access.

He is counting upon the free market to do for health care what it did for the banking industry.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's the GOP Plan
Destroy the middle class so everyone but the wealthiest are slaves. That millions of us will die, is just a thinning of the herd to the repukes. All the reports in the world won't make them give a shit.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. Yep. But some only want what they want and they want it now,
and can't see passed the tip of their own nose.
For them it's...what's in it for me?
and, if we can't close Insurance companies down, like now,
then Fuck it! they will choose to side with the GOP instead,
thereby helping the GOP continue their work doing everything
to insure our destruction.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Actually, you're describing the supporters
We have to have this bill now.

Yes, it sucks. No, it doesn't really do anything. But WE have to have a WIN!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I don't know what party you belong to, or who you support........
but what I do know is that you haven't done anything but being against
everything this administration is for. period.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. For during the campaign, or since?
I was against the cadillac tax
I was against the mandatory clause
I was for a public option
I was for closing gitmo
I was against telecom immunity
I was for prosecuting tortures.
I was for releasing the torture photos

I knew someone who was all that during the campaign. I haven't changed. Should I?
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. I think I like you
:hi:
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QuickDraw McGraw Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. re: If HCR Bill Doesn't Pass, it's Game Over by 2020
The article assumes that if the bill doesn't pass, we will give up. That's wrong! If THIS bill doesn't pass, we keep trying until we have one that does. Giving up is not an option.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow by 2020? Because Glen Beck keeps telling me
it's only going to take a year or two... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Like the bank bailouts? As if this shitty piece of crap is going to stop the plutocracy.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Without it there will be ARMAGEDDON! With it, they'll meet us in the streets with flowers!
But in any event, there's no time to think! We must act NOW!

(I may have mixed my propagandas, but you get the picture.)
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. ROFL
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 02:33 PM by Individualist
:thumbsup:

:applause:
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. FEAR! FEAR! FEAR!
AHHgggggghhhhh!!! TERROR! Bin LADEN! Concrete falling out of the sky!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. the Johnson & Johnson foundation says the country will collapse if this hcr doesn't pass.
big whoop.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. LOL
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. You find the health care crisis we're in to be a laughing matter. I'm not surprised
as you've consistently fought against reform over the last year.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Reform we need. This shit is not reform and your fearmongering doesn't work.
As someone who has had no access to health care since 1994, I'm all for REFORM.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. This insurance subsidy bill isn't going to stop the train wreck.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hank Paulson? Is that you? American people are finished with fear mongering.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 02:26 PM by Political Heretic
We lived eight years under an administration that used the politics of fear to manipulate our lives.

The current system is unsustainable and guess what, so is the mess being pushed on an American public, a majority of which don't want, while a super majority of American people do want a public option.

Trading one mess for another isn't the answer. And no one is convinced by snake oil salesman that try to scare people into swallowing shit.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Well, Robert Johnson *is* the father of the Delta Blues.
But I didn't know he had a rightwing scaremongering "think tank"! :wow:

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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. It was a condition of his deal with the devil.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 02:29 PM by Edweird
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. MISLEADING HEADLINE!: Followed by a false dilemma.
The "this or nothing and if we don't do this we'll all be dead in a year!" meme you help to perpetuate is pretty transparent.


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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. It's pathetically desperate.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. knr your reply - so tired of This or Nothing, actually this was the line
used against advocates of a SP system.

:shrug:

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. This line is what they use every time they want to steal another huge pile of our money.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. Exactly! Pass this or else :( n/t
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. What's the deal with DU people becoming more and more desperate??
It seems like there is less actual discussion here about anything and more of what the Freepers do, which is to just simplify every issue to a "better than best case" scenario vs a "worse than worst case" scenario.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. I didn't want to kick this garbage again, but since it's up here already...
The true believers are in a panic over the accurate perception of what He has (not) done.

The OP is such a great example.
:crazy::rofl::cry::nuke::grr::wtf:

But mostly:cry:

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
56. I don't think they have the votes, yet. nt
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Turns out that the "Robert Woods Johnson Foundation" specializes in advocating for privatization:
It's a little dishonest to omit this info, innit?

Based in Princeton, New Jersey, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF) is the United States' largest philanthropy devoted exclusively to health and health care.<1> The foundation’s mission is to improve the health and health care of all Americans. The foundation has $7.5 billion in assets, generating grants approaching $400 million a year<2>—to "address the nation’s most complex health and health care issues. The Foundation aims to use these private resources in the service of the public, and in a way that prompts new public policy, inspires action from the private sector, and changes systems for delivering the best health care to the most people."<1>

(emphasis mine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wood_Johnson_Foundation


A little later in the list you'll find that universal insurance is one of this group's hobby horses.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Wow, you really are desperate. They take DONATIONS to help the PUBLIC.
And one of the most vocal advocates for Single Payer and HCR has cited this report in her dailykos diary. NYCEVE, formerly with FDL, is an advocate of Single Payer, who also supports passing the current reform bill.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/3/18/846946/-Frightening-report-outlines-the-consequences-of-failure-to-pass-HCR

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. They advocate for privitization. Sorry that the truth hurts. nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Thanks. Figures.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. See, I thought you could read.
If you read what their goal is, they are not using the word private in the way that one would want to interpret it in trying to smear this organization.

What I dislike more than just plain GOP and their lies, are those who profess themselves to be "Liberal" and who lie just as much.

Now read their mission statement again, and I dare you to read all of the words,
not just those that have been served to you by way of bolding, relying that your
reading comprehension wouldn't get passed what you have been programmed to pick up on.

Geeze!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Frenchie Cat, if you have problems with my reading ability
please write immediately to the UC Regents and to PBK. Maybe they will take back my diploma and my key. Thanks!

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. A degree is good,
Using the skills you learned then now would be even better.

Why don't you go to their site and search "single payer" and see how many hits you get!

http://www.rwjf.org/healthreform/search.jsp?topicid=1633

Get back to me afterwards....
and understand that sometimes,
we are much too smart for our own good.

I know about Mr. Romulex,
but I'm a bit surprised about you.....
just accepting what folks offer you
simply because it meshes with your current view.

I also suspect that half of the folks "Mad" about this bill,
actually only know kind of what's not in it,
and have not a fucking clue of what all there is there.
Sheeps don't just follow those walking in one direction you know.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Frenchie Cat, when I need researching tips from you, I'll ask for them. Thanks!
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. First hit: "Getting to a Single-Payer System Using Market Forces"
It's advocacy for private insurance.

http://www.rwjf.org/pr/product.jsp?id=39855

:hi:

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. That's a 2003 article, and it isn't advocacy for private insurance.....
and the next article is called Medicare for All,
also from 2003....

James A. Morone proposes to solve the problem of the uninsured by guaranteeing that all Americans, young and old, would be automatically covered under an augmented Medicare program funded solely by a new value-added tax. While covering a full range of services, this single-payer system would emphasize delivery of primary care in community based health centers. Although clearly a federally centered approach, the plan would provide some flexibility by allowing states to develop an alternative approach and by giving employers the option of providing coverage that supplements the benefits package available under Medicare.
http://www.rwjf.org/pr/product.jsp?id=39856


They advocate public health throughout their site.

They are seen as some as anti-alcohol advocates.

They appear quite solid as a serious player for better public health,
and are not some organization or the arm of the insurance industry.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. Excellent info Berni.
:kick:
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jonathon Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
40. That is why they want to bailout the insurance companies NOW & keep them profitable

What you fail to address is that with such high uninsurance rates, there would soon be mass demand for real healt CARE reform.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY way you are going to fix this system is by excising the leeches from health industry.

You want to provide care and medication to the people - you have to cut out the profit motives

Instead, this bill enshrines them.

And, again. Health INSURANCE is not health CARE.

Just ask my parents - who had to fight their insurance company for a full year with weekly calls, letters, emails to get covered tests paid for...

The excuse - the tests weren't allowed to be given on the same day. This was a completely made up, smoke-screen, nonsensical excuse for not paying 5,000 dollars worth of bills. The only reason they ever were covered was my mom is a pit bull and she also had the TIME to fight (It took well over 60 hours to fight this - and there is no compensation for her time)

You are marching off a cliff like lemmings thinking the industry that screwed you will not serve you.

They won't.

This bill is a travesty.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. Your 'doomsday' sounds like the perfect motivation to pass single payer.
Which, of course, you are obviously against.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
47. That's far too long. Better pass this bill and push it up to 2014
Because once those mandates kick in, it will very much be game over - for the Democratic Party.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
54. Thanks. It will be quite useful.
And I'm disseminating it.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you for this! I just forwarded it to an ardent opponent of HCR, just to piss him off!
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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
58. Yes, and the world will end in 2012 because the Mayan....
calendar stops. Let's be real. People can predict and prognosticate all they want and it doesn't mean it will happen. This seems to me to be another attempt to scare (pun intended) up support for a bill that isn't finding much based on its own merits.

Now I want to ask why you are trying to frighten everyone? Is it because people who are afraid are less likely to reason things out and reach a conclusion you disagree with? Is there some other reason? I would very much appreciate your explanation. You have reports and the conclusions you draw from them but you have no proof that this is what will really happen. So what is the story?
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:58 AM
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59. K&U
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:03 AM
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60. LOL! Straight out of Dick Cheney's bag of fearmongering tricks!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 03:01 AM
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61. Pretty good description of what is going to happen even with "reform" n/t
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