Our whole economy is now based on who can trick other people out of their money

[Syrinx]

Have you noticed how many of the ads that are run on most of the channels, are either promising to improve you sex life in some way, or to make you rich?

They are playing a game. They can't tell you how to get rich, though if money is all that matters to you, you could do worse than emulating them.

They can help your sex life, I guess. For $25 a month in recurring credit-card charges, until you ask them to stop, or more likely until you call the cops, they send you a box of capsules containing various substances that may or may not help you sexually, that you could have bought much cheaper from the health store at the mall. Or if you want to spend a lot of people's idea of a week's salary on a dildo, you can turn to shop erotic.

Late-night infomercials are all about cheating people out of their money.

And that's what America has become, writ large, too.

Our economy is about people trying to cheat other people out of their money.

That's what our economy is based on now.

Whether it's the insurance companies and their policies, or the telemarketers, or the infomercials, or the bankers, or the ceo's of Enron and Aetna.

It's all about cheating people. That's what our economy is now.

Manufacturing, for a large part, has left the country. And where we do have manufacturing, the unions tend to be pretty weak.

Financial. I guess New York is still the king of Finance, though I don't know anything about that stuff. But Wall Street has been completely exposed as the cesspool of greed that it is. Still, that sector will continue over the years to grow and thrive. Unfortunately, all that growth will be centralized. That will just mean continued concentration of wealth.

Our system, not originally, but now, is set up to provide complete ownership of ourselves to the most brutal and heartless, those that have a killer instinct, but no moral compass. The class bully. The guy that tore wings off a fly, just because it was "fun." The guy who blew frogs up with firecrackers.

Those are the people we must resist.

[Birthmark]

1. Maybe we should sue someone? :)

Or apply for Social Security Disability benefits. (Lots of both of those types of commercials around, too.)

[Syrinx]

3. very true

That makes me think of "Call Alex." That's the constant late-night mantra, in this area. I looked him up and he turned out to have another life as a knife collector. Appropriate, I think. :)

[athenasatanjesus]

2. Thats the problem with an unregulated monetary system.

Too many people now make money just to make money to use to buy and control resources,fewer and fewer people at the top seem to actually add any value to society for the wealth they are obtaining.

[Syrinx]

4. exactly

[PreacherCasey]

45. That's right. That's what it all stems from.

I wonder how many people really know that.

[DCBob]

5. Yes, no doubt.. It has been like that for quite some time but clearly its getting worse.

I feel for those who are gullible or lack english skills or adequate education or experience to know when they are being scammed.

[old mark]

6. It really pisses me off when these glorified crooks refer to themselves as an "industry",

as though they actually make a product and actually do real work.

They make money by stealing from those who can least afford to lose it.

Google "Make Money At Home" or "Home Based Buisness" sometime and see what kind of scams you dredge up, none of which actually work, but all of which require you send them money.

mark

[polly7]

7. Just for kicks, and because my sleep pattern has been wonky for

decades, I called up one of those late-night info make money at home numbers (I work part-time and already do books at home so was just p*ing around)and asked the man on the phone if this guy is so good at what he does, why is he on TV begging for more money to take a course in something that anyone with the internet can gather info and help on for free? I told him it was a scam, and a weak, embarrassing one. He said "I wasn't the type of person who would bendefit from the program" (not knowing my employment situation). :shrug: So, I told him I was sorry he was representing s misleading product and said thank you very much for your time. I actually feel sorry for the people who have to work for these tricksters. They must know they're targeting the desperate, more or less.

[wolfgangmo]

64. If you really want to screw with them then...

Act excited as they pitch you and then screw up the credit card number over and over and over but keep trying until they give up and tell you to call back when you have the number.

At that point you should start crying and wailing, threaten to kill yourself, slam 2 flat boards together so the sound like a gun shot, throw the phone down and then leave the room after whimpering for a few minutes as if dying.

Or you could just not dial-for-idiots.

[polly7]

84. LOL n/t.

[liberation]

124. That is funny...

... but it got me thinking, the people working at the call center for those douches, are likely working there out of sheer necessity. Not because they may agree on the moral solidity of the product they are peddling. I am sure having to work those kind of jobs are pretty much at the bottom of our labor scale. So the douche behind the scam, will never have to deal with a joke like that, and the poor sap who is probably hating his life as it is... gets to have a suicide added to the big steamy pile of shit his life has become.


And then it hits you, the system always wins... because we are all fighting with each other, and not out of choice. The person answering the phone most likely hates the shit he or she has to sell, as much as we do. But there we go, the system managed to once again shield those at the top from having to dirty their hands, and otherwise normal and decent people end up doing the bidding of the people with all the money and power.

Humans, we're a funny bunch.

[wolfgangmo]

126. I hope you realize that I was attempting humor

I agree with you that the schmucks who work at call centers doing cold calling have what must be one of the worst indoor jobs in existance (if you want to see a crappy job then get one in an oilfield or on a pipeline - I did both in my youth and they are the very definition of GROSS physical labor). Cold calling (shudder).

And realizing that as I do I go out of my way to be unfailingly polite. Your point is a good one. I always encourage the person I talk to and wish them luck because I remember long ago being forced by circumstances to take a job with Blue Cross hawking medi-gap to the elderly. I HATED that job because it made me feel like a scumbag every minute of every day. I needed to shower like a rape victim after every shift in an attempt to feel like I had washed the taint from my soul.

So listen to your Uncle Liberation boys and girls and always be kind to others. It might be you someday.

[meow2u3]

40. They're an industry, all right

as much as extortion, loan sharking, racketeering, and murder for hire are "industries."

[tularetom]

8. Cheer up. Pretty soon nobody will have any money left to be scammed out of

[jody]

11. Good point. Those who have adopted a nearly self-sufficient/barter life style are beginning to

look more logical every day as our economy spirals out of control.

[jody]

9. Greed & Power, power to control govt and pass laws enriching those with insatiable greed.

[lunatica]

10. They also claim they can unwrinkle your wrinkles

and don't forget the guarantee that you'll lose weight if only you use their products. Both are cruel and manipulative 'industries'. If you don't believe it just ask their target consumers.

And also don't forget the late night fast food commercials interspersed among the diet commercials.

[jody]

12. Don't forget the single medicine that instantly cures both diarrhea and constipation. Wish they had

something like that for the deadly illness, government.

[wolfgangmo]

66. Our clinic teaches classes on how to lose weight.

And we give patients the tools to do it with, gasp, FOOD. Of course you need space it out in certain ways, low glycemic options help as well as EPA/DHA balance and other factors, but anyone who wants to lose weight doesn't have to buy a ton of special overpriced "product" to do it. We do offer some products to help with weight loss but they are classified as Medical Food and have been studies and proven to work for the problem they are prescribed for.

Big difference between that and Uncle Spiffies Miracle Weight Loss.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Americans purchasing habits lead directly to our loss of manufacturing

Doesn't happen overnight. But it happens. Then when all the jobs are gone the same people who used their purchasing power on imported items they scream, "Where are all the jobs?"

Never fails. I have seen this many times in my lifetime. Americans on a whole are pretty stupid.

And then to top it off those same people want me to riot with them. Yea, thats what I am looking forward to as a retired UAW member. Storming the barricades standing next to some idiot who drove to the riots in his imported car.

Don

[Fire1]

58. I don't think most Americans will ever see they 're shooting

themselves in the fuckin foot! Pathetic.

[pengillian101]

81. Great post!

:hi:

[PA Democrat]

14. It seems like most email traffic is this type of scam as well.

The proportion crap caught by my spam filter as opposed to legitimate email has been steadily increasing.

[raccoon]

15. I rec'd this after reading your subject line! nt

[spanone]

16. always has been...capitalism

[Fire1]

62. Capitalism is based on 'competition,' not scams. n/t

[defendandprotect]

96. BS -- Capitalism is not about competitition, it's about killing the competition . .. !!

[Fire1]

128. Monopolies obtained by unscrupulous means are

certainly unfavorable and not based on competition, nevertheless, the true form of capitalism is indeed based on 'competition,' despite your impression.

[defendandprotect]

137. My "impression" is that we have anti-trust laws because capitalism tries to kill competition!!

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime --

[Fire1]

146. Monopolies kill competition not capitalism. n/t

[Odin2005]

17. The global economy has become one big Ponzi Scheme

[Mari333]

18. buy NOTHING. only buy WHAT YOU NEED TO SURVIVE

buy nothing that anyone tells you you must have.
when I go into any store I ask myself..will I die if I dont have this? the answer is usually no.

be content with food in your stomach, a roof over your head, and warmth.

[Tutankhamun]

89. And birth control.

[defendandprotect]

97. Which is becoming ever increasingly expensive . . . enough to make young women

choose between birth control and groceries . . . I hear??

[Union Yes]

19. Your OP title is "Free" Market Capitalism in a nutshell. Legalized theft. knr nt

[defendandprotect]

98. Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime . . . Wall Street/Banks/Insurance on and on ...

[Festivito]

20. Free market with an unlevel playing field... Doesn't work. /nt

[FarCenter]

21. "There's a sucker born every minute" attributed to PT Barnum 1810 – 1891

Perhaps incorrectly. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute

It's nothing new. The US has always been the home for get rich quick schemes and grifters of every sort. It probably started before Sir Walter Raleigh and the founding of Virginia.

The colonies of the Carolinas and Georgia were partly populated by emptying Britain's prisons.

[Donnachaidh]

22. Idiocracy was more than a satire - it was a raising of a mirror

:shrug:

[thesquanderer]

55. but alas, a terrible movie. (n/t)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

57. "Welcome to Costco. I love you."

Some of it was funny.

"OW! MY BALLS!"

:rofl:

[lame54]

23. that is a great way to put it...

Lying is the norm

[mike_c]

24. it's capitalism entering a feral, parasitic phase....

The middle class represents a resource that simply cannot be ignored any longer-- in economic terms, it's wealth storage, in biological terms, an untapped prey base. Ambitious corporations are acting as resource harvesting agents seeking independent optimal harvest models-- ways to commandeer the wealth stored within the middle class without over-harvesting it too quickly, and thus collapsing the resource too soon.

It's like parasites swimming upstream through a host's veins-- if they take too much, the host will die, and they will fall on hard times too. If they leave too much to the host, their investors complain and their executives mutate. The optimal harvest is the one that fattens the parasites and their investors as much as possible and leaves just enough to the host to keep him alive. If the host prospers in any way, the parasite has harvested too little. It is a delicate balance.

More and more businesses are beginning to operate this way, with an eye toward short-term success. In biological terms, as virulent parasites. Parasites can afford to be virulent when resources are plentiful and easily harvested, when the risks are low when individual resource quanta are depleted-- they just move on to something else, diversifying their operations or morphing into something else. The financial industry parasites seem especially adept at that, much more so than the manufacturing sector parasites, who are burdened by physical plant.

[quinnox]

31. lol, quite imaginative!

Nicely done.

[Odin2005]

38. Good analogy!

[Scruffy1]

83. I agree

All of my life I've heard the BS about how capitalistic systems can be reformed. Anybody who was conscious during the last few years should realize that third way solutions simply will not work in the long run, because of the unequal access to the ones who make the rules. Those with the capital
have the power to win elections through there propaganda machines and keeping the voters in a state of confusion. when your elected representatives need money they are forced to turn to the capitalist for money or they will be buried under tons of advertising. Think about this-Nearly all of the financial reforms done in the 1930's were undone in a few years allowing a small oligarchy immensely wealthy on the backs of the poor. How long are we willing to push that rock uphill only to have it roll back down. I vote for breaking that rock into gravel and using it to fill potholes.
We have been at war nearly my whole adult life, and I am 61 today. Enough is enough. The sociopathy of capitalism can not be reformed because it is the essence of capitalism.

[defendandprotect]

99. Capitalism is based on exploitation . . . of everything --

it's an invention of the Vatican and it's been with us here a few hundred years --

They invented it when Feudalism was no longer sufficeint to run their Papal States.

The system is Patriarchy::Organized Patriarchal Religion::Capitalism ...

And every bit of it is suicidal concept -- like the "bird with no wing."

And they will take us all with them --


Manifest Destiny and Man's Dominion Over Nature are the licenses for the few to

profit from the many thru exploitation of nature, natural resources, animal-life --

and even of other human beings according to various myths of "inferiority."


See Papal Bulls which advocated that Native Americans be enslaved or killed --

same for Africans who were enslaved here.

See Catholic Church schools run to destroy Native American heritage, culture --

which were also crime scenes of beatings, torture, hangings, murders and certainly

every kind of sexual abuse of often kidnapped Native American children!

[Alcibiades]

106. Industrial capitalism

originated in the Protestant nations of Europe: Calvin is more relevant than any pope.

[defendandprotect]

135. We've been thru Calvin . . .

Capitalism is the invention of the Vatican . . .

[WillyT]

107. Yep... Been Debated Too...

The Valladolid Debate (1550 – 1551) concerned the treatment of natives of the New World. Held in the Spanish city of Valladolid, it opposed two main attitudes towards the conquests of the Americas. Dominican friar and Bishop of Chiapas, Bartolomé de las Casas argued that the Amerindians were free men in the natural order and deserved the same treatment as others, according to Catholic theology.<1> Opposing him was fellow Dominican Juan Ginés de Sepúlveda, who insisted the Indians were natural slaves, and therefore reducing them to slavery or serfdom was in accordance with Catholic theology and natural law.<1> Las Casas and Sepúlveda each later claimed to have won the debate, but no record supporting either claim exists, and the debate had no clear effect on the treatment of the natives.<2>

Las Casas, from the School of Salamanca and the Humanist movement, worked for years to expose the cruel treatment of natives in the encomienda system. This work had led to the Laws of the Indies of 1542, which promised to bring the encomienda system to an end. The humanity of the natives had already been established by the papal bull Sublimus Dei of 1537, which had also officially (though not effectively) banned slavery. Moved by Las Casas and others, the King of Spain Charles V ordered that further aggressions against the natives should cease and called a Junta (Jury) of eminent doctors and theologians to hear both sides and to issue a ruling on the controversy.<1> Las Casas' position found support from the monarchy and the Catholic Church, who wanted to control the power of the encomenderos, while Sepúlveda's arguments supported the interests of the colonists and landowners who benefited from the system.<2>

Though Las Casas tried to bolster his position by recounting his experiences with the encomienda system's mistreatment of the Indians, the debate remained on largely theoretical grounds. Sepúlveda took a more secular approach, basing his arguments largely on Aristotle and the Humanist tradition to say the Indians were naturally predisposed to slavery, and could be subjected to bondage or war if necessary.<1> Las Casas objected, arguing that Aristotle's definition of the "barbarian" and the natural slave did not apply to the Indians, who were fully capable of reason and should be brought to Christianity without force or coersion.<2> In the end, both parties declared they had won the debate, but neither received the outcome they desired. Las Casas did not see an end to Spanish wars of conquest in the New World, nor did Sepúlveda see the New Laws restricting the power of the encomienda system overturned.<2> The debate did result in the weakening of the encomienda system, but did not substantially alter the treatment of the Indians.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valladolid_debate

And...

From... Sepúlveda, Treatise on the Just Causes of War Against the Indians

"In prudence, talent, virtue, and humanity they are as inferior to the Spaniards as children to adults, women to men, as the wild and cruel to the most meek, as the prodigiously intemperate to the continent and temperate, that I have almost said, as monkeys to men." - Juan Ginés de Sepúlveda

Link: http://history.memphis.edu/dunowsky/worldcivdocs/sepulveda.html

:shrug:

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

136. And. . .Papal Bulls speak for themselves on this --

So do the notorious Catholic and Mormon Church schools . . . !!

Pope asked to revoke papal bulls Posted: May 26, 2006
by: Gale Courey Toensing / Indian Country Today NEW YORK -

There is no ambiguity in the language of the 15th-century papal bulls issued by the popes of the Roman Catholic Church as they encouraged the kings of Portugal and Spain to conquer ''undiscovered'' lands, enslave their non-Christian populations and expropriate their possession and resources.

Now, more than 500 years later, the U.N. Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues has called on Pope Benedict XVI to revoke and renounce those documents. The bulls, according to the forum, formed the ''doctrine of discovery'' - a philosophy that sanctified the massacre of millions of indigenous people and continues to influence U.S. Supreme Court decisions today.

The Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues held its fifth conference at the United Nations in New York from May 15 - 26. More than 1,200 delegates from all over the world attended.

The forum was established by the U.N. Economic and Social Council in 2000 with a mandate ''to discuss indigenous issues within the mandate of the council relating to economic and social development, culture, the environment, education, health and human rights.''

A May 18 event called ''Papal Bulls, Manifest Destiny and American Empire'' featured Oren Lyons, Faithkeeper of the Onondaga Nation (Haudenosaunee); Tonya Gonnella Frichner, Onondaga Nation; Esmeralda Brown, of Panama, chair of the Non-Governmental Organizations for Sustainable Development's southern caucus; and Yolanda Teran, Kichwa from Quito, Ecuador, and a member of Ecuador's National Council of Indigenous Women.

The Rev. Robert Meyer, a representative from the office of the Permanent Observer of the Holy See at the United Nations, was invited to join the panel, but declined. ''I'm not really an expert historian, so I'll have to be an expert listener,'' Meyer said.

The papal bulls include a Jan. 8, 1455, edict by Pope Nicholas V that grants the ''right of conquest'' to Alfonso, king of Portugal, and authorizes him ''to invade, search out, capture, vanquish and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed, and the kingdoms, dukedoms, principalities, dominions, possessions and all movable and immovable goods whatever held and possessed by them and to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery.''

The ''movable and immovable goods'' were to be used for the benefit and profit of Alfonso and his heirs forever.

The term ''Saracens'' was used by medieval Europeans to mean Arabs and Muslims in general.

Portugal and Spain were rivals in the conquest game, and by 1493, a new pope -

Alexander V - issued another papal bull urging his King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain to ''seek out and discover certain islands and mainlands remote and unknown and not hitherto discovered by others'' so that the ''barbarous nations be overthrown and brought to the faith itself.''

Lyons, the first speaker on the panel, wove stories from the past to the present, juxtaposing the spirituality of indigenous people with organized religion.

The two have ''different ideas,'' Lyons said, ''and even in today's dialogue we still don't quite connect because we're on a different spiritual level. They don't quite understand relationship. We never gave up our relations with the earth.''

Lyons quoted a Buddhist spiritual leader who had supported the American Indians' 1978 Long Walk from California to the White House, seeking justice for the depredations of history.

''When he was asked why he had joined the Long Walk, he said, 'I have studied the issue of peace around the world, and I've studied the peoples around the world and it is my conclusion that the most consistently persecuted people in the history of modern times is American Indians, and I am very amazed and impressed that in spite of all this persistent persecution, you have maintained your beliefs and your ways. Even today I see them as very crystallized and very strong, and I consider from all of this that the spiritual center of the world lies her in your hands,''' Lyons said.

Lyons provided a lyrical ancestral memory of life on Turtle Island B.C. - ''Before Columbus'' - as a pristine land of plenty where ''peace was prevalent'' because everyone understood the basic unwritten law that is the foundation of peace: respect for each other and the land, Lyons said.

''Then our brother came from across the water, and my grandmother said it was like a black cloud rolling towards us, a rolling black cloud coming at us, and it covered us. That's how she described it,'' Lyons said.

Last September, Lyons co-signed a letter urging Pope Benedict XVI to rescind and revoke the papal bulls.

''These bulls provide the foundation for the theft of indigenous lands throughout the world that continues up to this day. These bulls subjugated innocent and unsuspecting Native peoples and subjected them to more than 500 years of slavery, genocide and a less than human identity. We continue to suffer from what could be called an international conspiracy of nations, now ... become nation-states, to continue to perpetuate this racist doctrine promulgated by the Roman Catholic Church. This doctrine is a crime against humanity,'' Lyons wrote.

Lyons told Indian Country Today he has not received a response to, or an acknowledgement of receipt of, his letter from the pope.

Meyer, the Vatican representative who attended the panel discussion, left the event during an emotional reading of Lyons' letter by Brown. Reached by phone later, Meyer declined to comment and had not responded to questions by press time.

Frichner said the doctrine of discovery was an agreement among European nations that whichever nation arrived first had the right to explore, colonize and expropriate the land's resources. The non-Christian indigenous peoples did not have the right to own the land, only to occupy it.

''I think of it as a sort of gentlemen's agreement ... kind of like the Mafia - this is my neighborhood and you stay out,'' Frichner said.

She explained how the doctrine of discovery continues to play out in Indian country. Last year, the Supreme Court ruled that the Oneida Indian Nation of New York (owner of Four Directions Media, which publishes Indian Country Today) was required to pay property taxes on aboriginal lands it had bought back from the city of Sherrill, N.Y.

''The first footnote refers to the doctrine of discovery ... so if you think we're talking about some archaic notions that have no place in today's contemporary world, you're making a mistake,'' Frichner said.

She urged people who are working to rescind the papal bulls to become familiar with the doctrine of discovery, its history and impact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_papal_bulls

And . . .

1452 (June 18) Dum diversas Nicholas V Authorises Afonso V of Portugal to reduce any Muslims, pagans other unbelievers to perpetual slavery. 1455 (January 8) Romanus Pontifex Nicholas V Sanctifies the seizure of non-Christian lands discovered during the Age of Discovery and encourages the enslavement of natives.

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096413051



:hi:

[WillyT]

144. Great Stuff !!! - Thank You For That !!!

:yourock:

:hi:

[Duer 157099]

25. We are the United States of SCAMerica n/t

[lib2DaBone]

26. Each day.. 50% of the population gets up and goes to work...

.. to figure out how they can steal the money from the other 50% of the population.

It's called... "Hedge Fund Asset-Stripping Trickle-Down Republican Banking and Capital Management".

[snake in the grass]

54. I think those who scheme to steal from us...

...make up a lot less than 50% of the population. That makes it worse, of course.

[Dulcinea]

27. Barnum was right!

"There's a sucker born every minute."

[butterfly77]

28. So,So,True...

Kick&Recommended..

[dana_b]

29. freecreditreport.com !

only costs $20/mo. or some silly thing. People believe it's free until they see the charges. My kid did this. She was a naive 18 y.o. who gave them her cc number and then was surprised that they charged her. "But mom, they said it was free".
Tricksy they are. False!

[dem mba]

133. and they've been sued accordingly

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/04/experian-sued-for-its-dec_n_449098.html

[JohnnyBoots]

30. Just wait until the latest SCOTUS ruling comes into play. Where

Corporations can put unlimited money into political campaigns...this country is changing forever. I don't see any going back from this.

[defendandprotect]

101. Corporates are organized -- we aren't . .

MOBILIZE . . .

http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left/Petition

[mitchum]

32. One Nation Under Grift

[Waiting For Everyman]

33. Exactly right. It's all about creating frauds now, on steroids.

This is what was meant by moving us into a "services economy" and out of manufacturing THINGS, as in tangible products.

And now the problem is... if the government shut down the massive scams, everybody would be unemployed.

They lured us out onto the end of the proverbial tree-limb, and now we can't cut it off without falling along with it.

Checkmate. That's the "mother scam" by the corporatists. Bush was in office too long (and Clinton helped), it's a done-deal now.

[cilla4progress]

34. Interesting way to put it

I think that's really true. Some people would just as soon turn over the $100K for a college degree, as actually spend 4 years learning. (I catch my own daughter in this attitude. She's only in high school, but she works for the grade, to help her get into college, more than for the learning. I think this is a current societal value.)



Question: can we turn it around.

[jotsy]

56. Collectively, I hope so. Each on our own? I don't see anything I would describe as a chance.

The idea of a revolution, albeit necessary, is nonetheless, scary. No revolution though, that IMO could be scarier.

[progressoid]

35. USA! USA! USA!

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Our whole economy is based on elected officials allowing our money to be taken from us

We're all so cozy with big bidniss, an' all ........

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Well, I know how you can put a stop to it.

Send me $50, and I'll tell you.

[Romulox]

39. We have a surplus of people. We are expendable. nt

[Lagomorph]

41. It's always been that way....

....that's the whole idea. Turn a buck, pay your taxes, keep the machine rolling. We have created the largest economy in the world with frivolous, unnecessary, down right silly marketing of useless products and services, many of which don't work.

It has built roads, sewers, hospitals, created millions of jobs and spread wealth all over the world. It's down right weird.

[ljm2002]

42. Ferengi culture...

...I've been saying it for awhile, culturally we seem to have become very Ferengi-like, where the greatest good is deemed to be doing well by oneself, materially speaking, and getting it over on the other guy.

[trackfan]

43. Of course it is.

Who would pay 2x for something that you paid x for, if they could get it for x too?

[salguine]

44. I don't think "cheating" is what they're doing. Cheating implies that there may be

some guile, maybe even subtlety, involved on their part. In reality they're just twisting people's arms behind their backs, threatening to break them if they don't cough up. And they've gotten the Federal Government to help them do it.

[liberation]

46. "NOW?" What do you think capitalism and credit are at a very basic level?

Is just that the hubris is harder to ignore now, but our current economy is based on the same rip off that it ever was. And honestly, the same can be said for basically every other country/society on earth.

Next time you sign a loan, remember this: the bank is using your word and labor, as the actual money... I.e. you are actually making that very same money they are lending to you at an interest. This is, the money made through credit does not really exists. It is just that a few people in this society have the "right" to make it out of thin air (it is not thin air, it is your actual word and labor as I said earlier). Now tell me that is not a rip off. And that has been going on ever since some asshole convinced other people that the useless "shiny" metal he just found by sheer luck, was somehow worth more than all those bushels of food that took so much work and effort from those doing actual real work.

Lately, these same scam artists got lazy... thus witness the current clusterf*ck that was the Wallstreet bailout. Somehow, these people convinced the rest of society, that unless we give our money to them... so that they can charge us interest for the privilege of loaning our money back to us, then the whole economy would collapse. So add ransom to the long list of "achievements" by the people carrying out this rip off through the ages.


When one thinks our whole human existence is based around a fairly arbitrary metric such as monetary wealth (never mind the sociopathic aspects associated with that metric), one gets the impression that as a species... we really have still a lot of evolving to do. Imagine that aliens land and ask us to explain ourselves. I would find it mighty embarrassing having to explain another self aware being, that we spend our whole existence stuck in a rock traveling through space... doing nothing more than wasting our lives to keep up with an arbitrary metric which measures our "worth" and which has nothing to do with anything.

[DirtyDawg]

52. Agree, whatayamean, NOW?

As liberation said, it has ever been thus. Forget who is supposed to have said it, but the line, 'Whatever is not nailed down is mine...whatever I can pry loose is not nailed down.' To that I would add, 'whatever I can get away from you without being caught or stopped, is also mine'. That's how it works.

And finally, will forever recall a question that the Junior Achievement people asked of 'volunteers' the first year I served, to wit, 'How do American corporations set prices?' Several options were included in the response along the lines of, 'determine costs, build in an adequate profit margin, and go to market, etc.' But the 'correct' answer was 'You charge whatever you can get people to pay for it.' It is, after all, The American Way.

[femrap]

47. We're burnt toast.....

As the bumper sticker says: End World Hunger. Eat the Rich.

[Trillo]

48. Sadly, I have to mostly agree

It's not the most intelligent who need to be resisted, it's the most intelligent who consider only themselves of value, monetary or otherwise. Maybe a few of them should form a corporation, utilizing the power of many minds all in the service more money.

[demigoddess]

49. we were told recently that if you have a mortgage, and you have some reason to collect

on your homeowners insurance, such as damage to your home, the bank is a co-collector or co-claimant on the insurance payment. (I do not know why this is, I do not think it used to be this way, but this is the first time we have had this kind of problem) AND THE BIG STORY IS that the bank holds the money and will not release it to be paid to the homeowner or the contractor who does the repair work because they want to collect the interest on it. Apparently a lot of people are up a creek over this little technique that the bank uses to make money off of other people. Unearned, I might add. They are not doing any actual work here. the contractors are. Be on the look out for this.

[Grand Taurean]

50. The banksters are the kings of screwing people

out of their money.

[Celebration]

51. same thing exactly I have been telling everyone for years

I called it "scamming" though-- not cheating.

Naturally, you are very insightful. Oh, occasionally someone has a product that is worth purchasing and they make money that way (IPhone). But mostly, scamming. Infomercials on up. Actually some of the infomercials are better than the banksters.

[abelenkpe]

53. It has always been that way

When I was a kid scams were everywhere, telling people how they can get rich quick. My parents fell for many of those, going on business seminars sure they were going to get ahead and mostly just wasting their time and money. TV was free, then along comes cable. Water was fine straight from the tap, then comes evian. (Naive my little brother would joke) The internet was free, a bunch of hubs strung together out of peoples homes. I used to run a bbs when I was 13. Then came AOL.

The past twenty years have been good for those who figured out how to charge people for something they already had, or how to get people to buy something over and over and over again.

We do still make movies though. :)

[havocmom]

59. Whaddya expect? In a nation with too many fake preachers and MBAs...

the con goes viral

[Cal33]

60. This has been going on for over a centruy -- only now it's

become worse.

[Aleric]

61. This is new?

This who post presupposes that this state of affairs is somehow new. It's not. You're just finally becoming aware of it.

[fascisthunter]

63. sociopaths

[troubledamerican]

85. and psychopaths, to be fair

[OneBlueSky]

65. what the hell are they teaching at the Harvard Business School? . . .

and at Wharton? . . . oh, wait -- these guys probably never went to business school . . . they learned their skills from packaged "systems" they bought from infomercials . . . or from an e-mail . . . or by clicking on an ad . . .

I've often wondered -- if the "systems" these guys are peddling are so good, why are they wasting their time selling DVDs and books on late night tv rather than following their own advice and making those promised millions? . . . have to ask one of them next time I sit down to order "How to Make Millions Creating Fine Jewelry Out of Your Toe Nail Clippings" . . .

[1955doubledie]

68. They make their millions by selling DVDs on "How to make millions"

See...ain't America great?

[L. Coyote]

67. NO, Our whole economy is now based on the people already tricked out of their money

Where have you been?

[2Design]

69. I am very carefully and got scammed - and it was a fight to stop them

charging my credit card

[deaniac21]

70. Uh, you are just noticing this practice that goes back to the

beginning of time.

[2Design]

71. pay day loans and others are all legal LOAN SHARKS - mafia was

gentler

[warm regards]

72. I assume that you are operating within our economy.

So, who are you trying to cheat?

[havbrush]

73. Our Economy

You are so right. I remember when this whole thing of the corporations shipping jobs off shore started in the 90s full out with the maquiladoras -- factories just across the border in Mexico producing goods for US corporations formerly made in the US. The Clinton Administration kowtowed and allowed Rethug control of Congress to ushered in this whole unrestricted free trade, golbal economy thing. It might have begun earlier but it really picked up from then on, what with the call center jobs in India and the factories in China that keep Walmart full of cheap goods. People that shop there think they're getting a bargain until they lose their job because it's been shipped overseas to a country with a lower wage scale. That's what unregulated capitalism does, it always seeks the lowest payout to workers so that there is more and more profit to keep. Those companies were making good money here and people that worked for them had jobs and were able to buy their goods but that wasn't a high enough profit margin forthem. What happens though when all the jobs are gone and nothing is left but service work? Who's going to buy the goods then? Maybe the CEOs have it all figured out already. Maybe the next big market for goods is China or India, and they won't have to ship the goods back here, they'll just sell them in the country where they're made and they can pocket the shipping costs that they longer have to pay out. Forget about the good ol' US economy, so 1980s. But it's a never ending search for even lower, exploitive wages. Look what happened in Ireland, for a while there many technology companies opened up factories there until they found out they could pay people even less in Poland . . . and so it goes. They keep on seeking out lower wage countries until they get to maybe the poorest African economies with fresh workers to exploit. By the time the Africans are used up the workers in the US will be so desperate they'll work for anything and the factories here can reopen and the merry-go-round starts all over again. That's unrestricted capitalism for you.

[havbrush]

74. Our Economy

You are so right. I remember when this whole thing of the corporations shipping jobs off shore started in the 90s full out with the maquiladoras -- factories just across the border in Mexico producing goods for US corporations formerly made in the US. The Clinton Administration kowtowed and allowed Rethug control of Congress to ushered in this whole unrestricted free trade, golbal economy thing. It might have begun earlier but it really picked up from then on, what with the call center jobs in India and the factories in China that keep Walmart full of cheap goods. People that shop there think they're getting a bargain until they lose their job because it's been shipped overseas to a country with a lower wage scale. That's what unregulated capitalism does, it always seeks the lowest payout to workers so that there is more and more profit to keep. Those companies were making good money here and people that worked for them had jobs and were able to buy their goods but that wasn't a high enough profit margin forthem. What happens though when all the jobs are gone and nothing is left but service work? Who's going to buy the goods then? Maybe the CEOs have it all figured out already. Maybe the next big market for goods is China or India, and they won't have to ship the goods back here, they'll just sell them in the country where they're made and they can pocket the shipping costs that they longer have to pay out. Forget about the good ol' US economy, so 1980s. But it's a never ending search for even lower, exploitive wages. Look what happened in Ireland, for a while there many technology companies opened up factories there until they found out they could pay people even less in Poland . . . and so it goes. They keep on seeking out lower wage countries until they get to maybe the poorest African economies with fresh workers to exploit. By the time the Africans are used up the workers in the US will be so desperate they'll work for anything and the factories here can reopen and the merry-go-round starts all over again. That's unrestricted capitalism for you.

[Naturalist111]

75. You are so right

This goes further down the rabbit hole than you think. Example: I have a $150.00 cell phone in which the battery has died. Went to provider and they said "why not upgrade?" Battery $45.00 Upgrade $150.00. This person knew quite well what she was doing and for most people they would have and do fall for it. I ordered a new battery online for $17.00 plus .94 shipping. Please try and understand one thing, I will give an example. Farmer has only himself to plow, plant and harvest crops. Can only drive one tractor at a time and can only manage 300 acres. He will never get rich. It is only with the blood sweat and tears of others that anyone ever gets rich. You take their money for your own. You take their time, and make more money, then you pay them. Or you provide a product or service and charge them a lot more than it is worth (more than if they did it for themselves at the hourly rate they are paid doing what ever they do for a living). You can con them into buying something they don't need or completely swindle them out of their money. Capitalism is a Casino. Every one plays the game thinking they will get rich. In reality they are suckers. If you try real hard and think it through you will realize that if everyone didn't play the game we would all have the same amount of money. I give very little of my money to others. I have saved as much as I can. To some it might be a lot, to others it is not. People give too much of their hard work away for nothing. I do not gamble. There are more losers than winners. A lot more. I will not go on about pathological liars.......


WHERE DID THE WHITE MAN GO WRONG ?
TOUGH TO ARGUE WITH THIS ONE .. .

Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white U.S. government official -
'You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances.
You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done.'
The Chief nodded in agreement.
The official continued
'Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?'
The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied -
'When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex.'
Then the chief leaned back and smiled -
'Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.'

[havbrush]

77. Response to "You are so Right"

Ilove. The Indian Chief story is a jewel. Hope you don't mind if I use it.

[Naturalist111]

145. I own nothing

Archie Bunker said it wisely "You only rent beer". I am only renting everything.

[dem mba]

76. ugh 93 recs for this? (so far)

yea, our economy is based solely on direct marketing and insurance plans. right.

if you ignore industries like durable goods, non-durable goods, travel and leisure, food and beverage, energy, construction, chemicals, transportation and shipping, accounting, finance (and I mean traditional building capital type of finance), human resources, banking, real estate, education, biotechnology, computing, e-commerce, software and enterprise services, advertising and brand marketing...

yea, if you ignore all these things than I can see your point.

[havbrush]

78. Reply to" ugh 93"

Yeah but you just know all the executives in those industries are trying as we speak to figure out how to get more in their pocket and less in the workers pockets who actually do the work.

[dem mba]

131. are the workers not trying to figure out how to put more in their own pocket too?

if everyone is out to get theirs, than at least everyone knows where they stand.

in theory, if a worker is not satisfied with their take home pay, they are free to take another job at a rival firm, or in another industry.

[bc3000]

117. I concur.

I work in IT for small businesses and all day long I encounter people who provide real products and services.

Maybe the phoney crap is just a lot more prevalent in the media because they need to cast their nets wide to catch enough suckers to make it profitable.

[kestrel91316]

79. Well, I am a tiny part of the economy, and pride myself on being above EVER

"tricking" anyone out of their money. Mind you, I have seen colleagues do it (though they would deny that's what they were doing), and know how, and could make a great deal more money than I do if I chose to practice that way.

But my parents raised me right.

You are tarring an awful lot of good people with that there exceptionally broad brush, you know.

[RoccoR5955]

80. YAWN--- Now tell me something that is new!

This is the way that capitalism thrives. The system in and of itself, is nothing more than a means to rip people off, and the one who rips off the most people, has the most money. Can you say Bill Gates. Look at what a piece of garbage his Windows has become.

[patrice]

82. Yep: How to do the least actual work for the most money.

[Hardrada]

115. WORK!!! You said, Work???"

OMG

[patrice]

116. Maynard G. Ferguson, is that you?

:D

[Hardrada]

122. Maynard G. Krebs, if you please. Sheesh!!

And don't bring that up again!

[patrice]

127. Ooooppps, Oh yeah, Ferguson was a trumpet player in about the same era.

[jimlup]

86. Hasn't the economy really been based tricks all along?

I mean since the invention of money ... maybe if you really think about money itself is kind of a trick (for whomever prints it!)

[callous taoboy]

87. The birth of town and city is where cheating got its start. n/t

[KonaKane]

88. Kleptocracy, USA

Oh what a wonderful thing we have become. My dad certainly believed in capitalism, but he also believed that a capitalist should honestly work for every dollar they make.

I guess that second part is no longer in vogue.

[defendandprotect]

90. That's capitalism . . . always has been, always will be . . . democratic socialism now!

Otherwise, let's reregulate capitalism up to its eyebrows!!

[SocialistLez]

93. I wholeheartedly agree

[4dsc]

91. 30 years of failed conservative economic policies

Here's the truth about Reaganomics by Thom Hartmann:

We have gone, when Reagan came into office we were the largest exporter of manufactured goods and the largest importer of raw materials on the planet. And the largest creditor. More people owed us money than anybody else in the world. Now just twenty eight years later we're the largest importer of finished goods, manufactured goods, exporter of raw materials which is kind of the definition of a third world nation and we're the most in debt of any country in the world. This is the absolute consequence of Reaganomics.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/thom-hartmann-countdown-consequence-reaganomics

[defendandprotect]

102. 50 years of right wing political violence and election steals . . . ????

The only way the right wing can rise is thru violence --

and we've seen plenty of it!!

[Richard Steele]

92. Very well said. K&R

[DesertDiamond]

94. It's true. We are completely poisoned by the 3 poisons of greed, anger and foolishness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. It has a name: CONSUMERISM

and it is not even a cousin of true capitalism...

But hey what can I say? When one calls a spade a spade...

[ddeclue]

100. George Carlin is back from the dead! Nice post..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&feature=related

[Initech]

103. And then a website comes along called "Free Credit Report" that isnt exactly free.

That's when you know we're fucked.

[joycean]

104. Caveat Emptor. This is not new. -nt

[Wednesdays]

110. So, leave the system as it is.

You like crooks, don't you?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

113. You do an injustice to the person you've chosen as an avatar.

[joycean]

118. Kurt understood human nature.

Do you think capitalism is the reason that we screw each other over? It is merely a vehicle, one of many.

Reminding the OP that this is ancient stuff that predates capitalism, with a Roman saying does not do an injustice to Kurt's good name. The OP's thesis is ham-handed and not very well thought out. It was not an enlightened dissection of Human Economy, and merited nothing more than a brief, hyperbolic word.

I love Kurt Vonnegut. I loved him enough to cry very hard alone in my room when I read that he had passed away. I celebrate his birthday every year, by reading the part about Armistice Day from Breakfast of Champions aloud to my children. I honor Kurt everyday when I go to work at a hospital instead of a brokerage firm. I honor Kurt, and my choice of avatar on a debate forum is the absolute least of that honor.

[dchill]

105. Philosophically, is there any honest, ethical way...

to become a freaking billionaire? Just wondering, I really don't think so.

[Wednesdays]

109. Heh, check out my signature.

[dchill]

142. Yep - that's right.

:hi:

[dem mba]

132. behind every great fortune lies a great crime

I think you can get rich in this country through hard work and ethical conduct. I really, really do.

But to get that wealthy, ehhhh, I'm not so sure.

[dchill]

141. Perhaps there's a reason behind the term...

"Filthy rich."

[Alcibiades]

108. Don't forget the Knife Show!

http://www.cutlerycorner.net/default.aspx

Who needs a complete collection of 400 cheap-ass knives, Bowie knives, "katanas," etc? People all over the country are cluttering up their trailers with this stuff, beanie babies, and other assorted shit.

[Hardrada]

111. It kind of always was.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

112. Nailed it.

The legitimacy of fair barter and trade has been poisoned.

[jgraz]

114. It's the definition of predatory capitalism

Just like predation in the wild, they go at the entire herd, knowing that a few of the weaker ones will not be able to elude them. This entire practice needs to be identified and outlawed.

[upi402]

119. Capitalism; "Got rope?" n/t

[Subdivisions]

120. Well said. On another note, does anyone know where the Enron records are? That whole

thing seemed to go quietly away at some point.

[grahamhgreen]

121. it's a scam based economy.

[dipsydoodle]

123. K & R

:thumbsup:

[mojowork_n]

125. Not to mention...

...how much regular, over-the-air TV programming reinforces the dog-eat-dog message. Reality TV is all about "survivors" of one sort or another, from 'Hell's Kitchen' to those 'you're fired' shows. Then the basic message -- YOU'RE ON THE HOT SEAT (you pawn, not competent or capable of controlling your own destiny) -- is further reinforced by the endless permutations of "The Judge Show." ("Prove your innocence, you lying worm.")

Great post, and I love your tag line.

[WinkyDink]

129. "NOW"?!

[branders seine]

130. the eventual outcome of capitalism

is an anarchical kleptocracy

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

134. Way over the top. Most business people small and even large are reasonably

ethical. They are trying to provide a product that the customers want as cheap as they can. The cheap part is the real issue. Our system has a lot of opportunity for corruption and abuse no doubt, but I don't think a majority of businesses are doing that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Yeha that is why I got taken to the cleaners by two

small businesses over IP.

Ethics my ass.

The environment in this country can be summarized in one phrase...

Zero sum game.

[gtar100]

138. The unintended consequence of unregulated capitalism and the hoarding of money by a minority.

What else are we to do when real opportunities are so expensive? A very solid educational system available to everyone worldwide is the long-term, foundational solution to these issues. How else can the thoughtful, intelligent people of this world gain the upper hand over those who are here only to exploit life for their own personal aggrandizement?

[blindpig]

140. Naw

Our economy is based on ripping off the labor of workers, all else is secondary or derivative. Though one must say that anyone base enough to do such a thing is certainly capable of other crimes.

[TankLV]

143. You mean all those PENIS ENLARGEMENT ads are all a scam?!!!

I was just going to go out and by some...

After all, when 24 inches is not enough, ya gotta do SOMETHING!!!