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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:12 PM
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Rahm Emanuel's assumption that progressives would support whatever the White House wanted vindicated

Has Rahm's Assumption about Progressives been Vindicated?
by Glenn Greenwald
March 18, 2010

Politico's Ben Smith yesterday suggested that one important aspect of Rahm Emanuel's health care strategy -- to ignore the demands of progressives on the ground that they would fall into line at the end no matter what -- has been vindicated. Smith points to a new poll showing near-unanimous support for the bill among liberals as well as the fact that not a single progressive member of the House (not even Dennis Kucinich) will oppose this bill even though the prime progressive objections were ignored. Smith's argument unsurprisingly provoked immediate objections from numerous progressives -- Paul Krugman, Markos Moultisas, Chris Bowers -- who argue that in the wake of Scott Brown's election, Emanuel advocated a drastically scaled-back version of health care reform because he believed the original, larger version couldn't pass. If (as looks highly likely) the current bill passes, then, they argue, Emanuel will have been proven wrong -- not vindicated.

Assuming that Emanuel really advocated for a scaled-back version (that's from anonymous royal court intrigue reports, so who knows?), this objection (as Smith acknowledges) is true as far as it goes -- but it doesn't go very far at all, because it doesn't really have anything to do with Smith's "vindication" argument. The "vindication" Smith sees has nothing to do with Emanuel's advocacy for a "scaled-back" bill, but is about a different point entirely: namely, Emanuel's assumption that there was absolutely no reason to accommodate progressive objections to the health care bill because progressives (despite their threats) would automatically fall into line and support whatever the White House wanted, even if their demands were ignored. Is there really any doubt that Emanuel was right about this point? Indeed, Markos himself essentially acknowledged these progressive failures last night on MSNBC.

For almost a full year, scores of progressive House members vowed -- publicly and unequivocally -- that they would never support a health care bill without a robust public option. They collectively accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars based on this pledge. Up until a few weeks ago, many progressive opinion leaders -- such as Moulitsas, Howard Dean, Keith Olbermann and many others -- were insisting that the Senate bill was worse than the status quo and should be defeated. But now? All of those progressives House members are doing exactly what they swore they would never do -- vote for a health care bill with no public option -- and virtually every progressive opinion leader is not only now supportive of the bill, but vehemently so. In other words, exactly what Rahm said would happen -- ignore the progressives, we don't need to give them anything because they'll get into line -- is exactly what happened. How is that not vindication?

What's not debatable is that this process highlighted -- and worsened -- the virtually complete powerlessness of the Left and progressives generally in Washington. If you were in Washington negotiating a bill, would you take seriously the threats of progressive House members in the future that they will withhold support for a Party-endorsed bill if their demands for improvements are not met? Of course not. No rational person would.

The problem here is two-fold: (1) nobody (certainly not Emanuel) ever took the progressive threat seriously -- because nobody believed they would really oppose the bill even if they got nothing -- and it thus had no credibility and they were ignored; and worse: (2) nobody will ever, ever take progressive threats seriously again in the future, because they know that progressives will do what they did here: namely, get in line at the end and support what the Party wants even if none of their desired changes to a bill are made.

Amazingly, one now finds posts on the front page of Daily Kos (not by Markos) demanding that progressives repeat this behavior on every bill in the future: "whatever that final position is, it will then be the job of the progressive to evaluate it strictly on the merits of what it is, rather than what it could have been. And if what it is, is even incrementally better than what we have right now, then it should be supported." That sounds exactly like the rationale of capitulating Democratic officials of the last two decades, not what the blogosphere was ostensibly devoted to promoting. Why would anyone in Washington -- surrounded by powerful lobbyists and people whose threats are actually credible -- ever take seriously or listen to a person who thinks and behaves this way (I'll support anything you want even if you ignore me, as long as I get a single crumb), and even proudly announces it in advance? They never would listen to such a person -- and they don't -- because that's the sure path to self-imposed irrelevance.

Please read the full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/03/18-9

---------------------------------------------------------

Progressive Caucus to Decide Whether to Be a Power or a Punk: Weiner Makes it Plain
By: Casual Observer
September 9, 2009

"All of the protest letters in the world don’t add up to much if you don’t finally stand up and vote No on something the President and Nancy want,” Weiner said. “There is clearly a sense that progressives in Congress are easily rolled.”

“If the Congressional left can’t pass even something as modest as a watered down public option, then frankly I don’t think anyone is going to take the left very seriously later on in this Congress,” Weiner continued. “When Blue Dogs talk, there are fewer of them but they have more influence than when progressives talk.”

Said Weiner: “You can only shake the saber so often before someone expects you to use it.”

Can it be said any plainer that that? NY Representative Anthony Weiner knows that House progressives can decide their own destiny right now. They can stand up and hold their ground on the public option, or they can surrender to pressure and spend the rest of this congress doing…whatever it is that hapless losers do in congress (i’m guessing it involves getting kicked around by Blue Dogs, Republicans, their party leadership, and their president on every issue between now to the end of the session).

If House progressives don’t stand together now, how will they be able to say or do anything for the remainder of this congress without being met with gales of laughter? And the laughter won’t just be in Congress. It will echo everywhere from Rahm’s White House to their own districts back home. And, of course, their many friends in the D.C. media.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7977

Glenn Greenwald noted in an update:

"Weiner, however, is one of those House members who is now voting for the final bill even after vowing unequivocally that he'd vote NO if it did not include a public option. Whether he's doing the right thing is a separate question; what's clear is that he's the author of his own powerlessness for exactly the reason he himself so eloquently described just five months ago."



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. The sad truth
"nobody will ever, ever take progressive threats seriously again in the future, because they know that progressives will do what they did here: namely, get in line at the end and support what the Party wants even if none of their desired changes to a bill are made."

"There is clearly a sense that progressives in Congress are easily rolled."

In other words: If you are progressive, you don't have representation and you never will.

(Unless we ruthlessly root out the Blue Dogs regardless of the pukes-are-worse extortion)
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. It seems so, though only about half of DU
seems to be waving pompoms for the Insurance profiteers bill. The rest of us still demand a public option without mandates, at minimum. Except no bait-and-switch substitutes!
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rahm has said, and Obama seconded, that they dont need or want Progressive support
The HCR was an in your face to those who were asking for Medicare For All or a viable Public Option.

He's getting HIS HCR passed, without Progressive support.

He doesnt want us around.

Sure, he didnt complain when we donated to his campaign.
He didnt complain when we were knocking on doors or phone banking for him.
He didnt complain when he got elected from the fruits of our hard work.

But he and Rahm did start complaining when WE raised objections to:
his continuation of the Patriot Act,
his surge in another war, his continuation of another, and the apparent beginning of yet another,
his continuation of DADT
his failure to repeal DOMA
his taxing of Union benefits
and on and on and on

Now that we know our place in the Obama Administration, under the bus with the rest of the fucking retards, we will be sure to respond accordingly. In the lead up to November 2010 and 2012, please do not expect:
Union Support
Progressive Support
Grassroots Movement
GLBT Support

We will keep our money, time, and effort to ourselves. Good luck in November
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Those are all inconvenient truths
that you won't see refuted with any kind of factually based arguments.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Many of us no longer wish to be where we aren't wanted.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. His assumption that we'll just fade away without demanding
an expansion of this terrible bill is unwarranted.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I intend being a burr under the saddle of any Congressman who doesn't support Grayson's Medicare buy in bill.

I'm already contributing to opponents of Blue Dogs and other conservative scum in the primaries. I'll be contributing to viable opponents of GOP dead wood after the primaries.

I don't think I'm alone, either.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. You aren't alone, as much as the DLC and the MSM would like you
-and the rest of us-to believe otherwise.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. How is an "expansion" of this bill possible with more Republicans elected to Congress in 2010 ....
Edited on Fri Mar-19-10 01:35 PM by Better Believe It
because of this bill and even higher unemployment?

I hope this insurance industry bill can still be stopped.

If not, the public might demand the repeal of mandatory insurance, the excise tax on insurance premiums and a Medicare buy-in or Medicare for All during the 2012 election.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. More Republicans in Congress is far from a done deal
Once HCR passes, people might begin to see who the real enemy of progress on the issue was all along. They might surprise you this year and go against history by refusing to let Congress pass into the hands of the disloyal opposition.

I do know a lot of people are disgusted with their incumbents. Whether or not they throw the baby out with the bathwater and defeat good Democrats is anyone's guess right now.

One thing I am not going to predict is this year's election. Too many things are happening too quickly for anyone to predict it.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. DLC assholes catering to the corporations & the most moderate to right-wing Dems
Edited on Fri Mar-19-10 01:39 PM by LaPera
DLC Emanuel, caring only what brings in the corporate money and looks good for reelection....Rahm says fuck what's right, or that it's the liberals who want true health care reform, a true option for people to have instead of just the insurance corporations outrageous premiums, practices & policies.

Tens of millions of progressives, liberals helped put Obama into the White House so that corporate Rahm can just advocate ignoring progressives?

NO! But Rahm believes so, and believes he has all the liberals in his back pocket and can shut them up anytime at will!
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. So far Rahm has been pretty effective using his "sharp elbows" against liberals while pandering to .
conservatives.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. It's doubtful it's just sharp elbows
Backroom deals were made with Big Pharma and AHIP -- do you think they would suddenly *stop* doing those deals, especially as they are so desperate to shove this POS down the american taxpayer's throats?

This thing is going to wind up costing us much more than we've been told. Because *somebody* is playing santa behind closed doors to get votes. Giveaways for a *legacy*.

Guaranteed.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Perhaps a few sharp kicks to the groin? Along with threats of primary opponents, no funding,

removal from committee assignments, etc.,
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. fuckin retards
ain't got no where else to go except to Nader. Sad, very sad..
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. Suck on it, donut heads!
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. Did anyone ever really think any differently?
Even Dennis Kucinich came to the conclusion that it is just plain dumb to stand with the Republicans and deny health insurance coverage to 30 million Americans.
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