There is no Left

[blindpig]

To be a little more specific, no effective Left. The Democratic Party is not Left except in the most relative way, the left wing of the Money Party. Left means opposition to Capitalism. Left means communists, socialists, anarchists. Yeah, there's Bernie Sanders, calls himself a socialists, but where is his socialism when the rubber hits the road? As for the 'Progressives', know them by their acts, not their mealy-mouthed excuses.

The only time that working people got anything from the government, which is and has always been the tool of the ruling class, is when that ruling class has feared the working class. Specifically during the Great Depression, when people were striking left and right, people were rioting, and commies, socialists and anarchists were in the vanguard.
Be assured, the New Deal wouldn't have been anything to write home about without the pressure which was largely inspired by those organizers.

Those organizers were brutally suppressed in the post WWII anti-communist craze. That whole in the leadership of working people has yet to be closed. Until we organize around bedrock principles and act in accordance to those principles the ruling class will never take us seriously and will continue to treat us like stupid sheep. Grow some canines.

[Max Stein]

1. But can't we embrace

the center in an ever rightwards drifting plantation?

Serfin' USA

[BurtWorm]

12. Embrace the center?

What's to embrace there? It's an amorphous, unlovable blob.

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. It looks like Max got to embrace

...a pizza.

[BurtWorm]

25. Those are a lot more concrete.

:spray:

[walldude]

19. Welcome to DU.. and we could embrace the center

If we wanted to live in a right wing world. The point is there are supposed to be two sides a right and a left and the center is the compromise. Problem is the right has gone off to la la land and the left has moved towards the center. Which leaves us no left at all, which means every decision is based on MONEY. Greed, it's the engine that moves us.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

8. wtf?

What is wrong with you?

That's incredibly rude

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Because telling people to "grow some canines" is polite?

What the fuck is wrong with YOU?

[leftstreet]

23. More civil than 'balls' I should think

:-)

[leftstreet]

3. K&R

:applause:

[inna]

40. +1

:applause:

[Bicoastal]

4. I can't truly be "Left-wing" without being a communist or an anarchist?

I didn't sign up for that shit. Guess I'm a centrist.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FiveGoodMen]

6. Hardly even on DU!

I'm beginning to think that a lot of those on the supposed left (going back to the 60's) were just going through a fashion phase.

Look how many are happy to sacrifice everything to corporate rule just so they can say that their team won!

Makes me wonder how many actually stood for any sort of principles in the first place.

[maxsolomon]

7. when there is a crisis the debate will move left

we are not in a REAL crisis - yet. like a no-more-oil-to-get-the-food-to-safeway crisis. we were getting there when gas was $4/gallon but the lampreys of the capitalist oligarchy just bled us until we started to notice, then backed off.

[kenny blankenship]

39. We are in the process of wiring a trillion dollars to AHIP to make sure they are insulated

from our unfolding catastrophe. (with more to come you can be sure)

They're all getting their golden parachutes while the getting is still good.

[bobbolink]

9. I fully understand your anger, but please don't bash Bernie. He is doing the best he can in a bad

situation. He put some very good things in that bill, and, while we all wish it was a better bill, Bernie has a conscience, unlike so many others (including the hallowed Kucinich), and he is doing what he can in whatever way he can to try to help people.

Reasonable people can disagree. Reasonable people can see both sides of this, and to bash someone with as much integrity as Bernie Sanders is misplaced anger.

The DLCers got us into one hell of a pickle, and that is not Bernie's fault.

[el_bryanto]

10. As a moderate liiberal, I do decry the absense of an American Left Wing

An effective one, anyway. Because it naturally limits the range of options that can be debated. We as a nation essentially have blinders on; we can only look to the middle and the right - and that's a shame.

Now if there was an effective Left I'd be arguing with it constantly - but those would be arguments I'd like to have.

Bryant

[lib2DaBone]

11. What is lacking today is a means to organize...

Our fathers fought bloody wars for the 40 hour work week, paid overtime and an asbestos-free workplace. They fought for everything.. the govenment gave them nothing.

Today, Corporations have managed to kill the unions, and college kids will dare not demonstrate, (other than their tuition is too high.)


Our MSM has also discouraged any disent..( other than the right-wing controlled Tea-Bags)... on which they cover every breath and nuance that Dick Armey tells them to.

In other words, the situation is perfect. Exactly what the Big Corps intended to do... wreck the middle class.

[anonymous171]

14. Fuck the commies and their vanguard.

Anarchists are cool though. Too bad they are all angsty teens now. Back in the day they used bomb Wall street when things got tough. Now they just chuck bricks through pet store windows.

[blindpig]

29. ya know, at one time I thought like that

but here's the thing, what have the anarchists accomplished? The reds do have a proven track record, certainly not perfect but the best to date. I think the situation is too dire, the time too short, to choose predilection over necessity.

[Hannah Bell]

15. kick. it's a train wreck out there. & people sit & take it.

[Echo In Light]

22. .

[Peregrine Took]

16. The Democratic party will only respect us when we stop doing their bidding.

Until then they know we will always "cave." Its what we do. ("Where ELSE are they going to go????")

[Starry Messenger]

17. k & r

[gulfcoastliberal]

18. Remember that ultimately it is the international elites at the top of the pyramid. k&r

See the Carroll Quigley video I just posted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x444782

edit to add: please recommend it if you liked it so we can get more views - thanks!

[Odin2005]

32. Quigley! +1

[Cal Carpenter]

21. Good luck with this thread

I'm learning that despite the near-obsessive nature of their political interest (I can say that because I share it) there are a lot of people here whose basic understanding of social and economic theory is dangerously limited. I'm afraid that may make for an ugly thread.

But you are right about the left. There is nothing truly 'leftist' about the Democratic party - saying this isn't some moral judgment or 'bashing' or whatever, it's just basic theory. Any intellectually honest student of economic theory knows this.

And the relativism is the most dangerous part. The real world ain't relative - there is a truth. It's just difficult to look at, especially given what we were brought up to believe.

Sigh.

Sorry to be so cryptic. I'll check back on this one later :)

[Lagomorph]

27. Concentrating wealth was quite popular when...

...they had big dreams to fulfill, information superhighways, unlimited cheap, clean energy, yada, yada, yada...

Now that our economic base has contracted, the organism which backs their wealth, everybody is scrambling to secure THEIR piece with something other than sub-prime derivatives.

The elite continue to try to motivate us with fear, rather than appeal to our intelligence. For all the trillions we've invested into our country, they would have us believe we have accomplished nothing, that it will all come crashing down around us if they don't get another five hundred billion.

We've built so much infrastructure that it is draining our wallets just to maintain it, let alone advance.

[blindpig]

33. well...

so far it's been a hell of a sight better than last time I posted something like this.

We are getting a crash course in economics, whether we like it or not, and that has a lot to do with it.

[Political Heretic]

24. Solidarity.

[kctim]

26. Psst

The communist, socialist, anarchist opposing capitalism left you describe has NEVER existed in the United States. Sure, a number maybe equal to the teabaggers have always been around, but they are irrelevent.

[blindpig]

28. So sad,

you really don't know any history, do you?

Google William Z Foster, get a clue. Or try these:

http://depts.washington.edu/labhist/cpproject/grijalva.shtml

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2005/is_n1_v32/ai_21186994/

http://fosterhall.blogspot.com/2009/07/history-of-communist-party-of-united.html

[kctim]

30. Yes, sad indeed

not because you have proven your point, but because I do know history. Do you really believe all those people were devote communists and socialists? That the majority of those people would have been a part of it under normal conditions?

I'll give you that stripped down versions of some of their ideas have made it into our govt, but to suggest their numbers today would be relevent would be like saying the teabaggers are going to dictate the outcome of the next election.

[blindpig]

31. Watch it....

You might be a prophet.....it is not TB strength but rather the appearance of strength, courtesy the msm, but none the less.

What are 'normal conditions'? The period which all yearn for, 1950-1973, was not normal, it was a historical anomaly. Depressions, recessions, the rich riding roughshod, those are normal under capitalism, it is the nature of the beast.

Things like relief for the unemployed, social security, government work for the unemployed were lifted directly from the communists/socialists program. so was health care for all....

[New Dawn]

36. Thanks for sharing these links.

[inna]

41. Thanks for those links, and for your OP!

:thumbsup:

[David Zephyr]

34. I get your point, but there is a Left with a proud tradition.

Politicians are politicians. They are not activists.

It was abolitionists, suffragettes, union members, the Wobblies, anarchists, civil rights "agitators", environmental activists, feminists, GLBT activists, anti-war mobilizers, socialists, immigrant organizers and more -- all of whom were always outside the electoral system - who made change happen in this nation.

And The Left has always found betrayal by those we work to elect. The "pigs" do wind up standing like humans as Orwell wrote all those many years ago.

That's why I like the Primary Process.

We don't have a parliamentary system in the United States (I wish we did), but we are stuck with two corporate controlled "parties" with their "lawmakers" who do their bidding.

But there is a Left in this Nation. I've been part of it my entire life.

The Democratic Party is not a leftist party. As Howard Zinn once said, it's the "safety valve" for when the preferred corporate party goes to far in excess. It's the default fall back party so that the angered masses can feel they've gotten a change for the better.

I've attended to national conventions of the Democratic Party as a voting delegate on the floor. In both instances I participated in the counter conventions in the evening sponsored by The Nation and other Leftist organizations than attend the cocktail smooze parties thrown by oil companies and such.

There is a Left. And it's a alive. We drive the Democrats in office crazy because we hold their feet to the fire and remind them of the promises (or lies) they made when campaigning.

[blindpig]

42. I agree

Sometimes a bit of hyperbole helps to make a point.;-) But let's go back to that adjective, 'effective' and apply it to politics...I understand that there are a lot of brothers and sisters working on the local level to mitigate the effects of capitalism, particularly upon those most vulnerable, immigrants, the unemployed. The UE still fights the good fight. But it's going to take a mass movement for us to get their attention, to get things done. Then things will get interesting, in the Chinese proverb sort of way.

[Tashca]

35. No organized left.

I know...I know....that is by design.

When we see words like (communists, socialists, anarchists) the average person immediately disengages from the conversation. We have been fed a line for so many years about how ineffective and destructive these things are. Like I said...this had been by design because this thinking is not conducive to capitalism. In fact it is seen as a threat to capitalism.

I think times are changing though....people are starting to ask questions and I think that is a good thing.

[unkachuck]

37. "...no effective Left."

....you're absolutely correct....and we need to look no further than to what we've just witnessed....

....only in the most primitive, backwards, fascist states, would a person be considered 'fanatical' and 'radical' for espousing Universal Healthcare....

[Egalitariat]

38. We're about to pass one of the biggest bills in history without even voting

How much more effective do you want? You're never going to get everything you want. We're running the show right now and we're telling the Republicans how much they like it.

I'm pretty happy with that.

[blindpig]

43. Who is 'we'?

Unless you consider capitalist monoliths 'we' your statement makes no sense.

[blindpig]

44. Kick

just to give the red baiters another shot.

[dajoki]

45. The left has been missing for at least thirty years n/t

[IndianaGreen]

46. K&R

I was too late to rec this.

:kick: