So what happens when they Swiftboat our candidate next year?

[KurtNYC]

Has anything changed? It worked last time so they will do it again (and again and again). It won't be vietnam because, aside from Gore, none of them went, but it will be something.

And it doesn't have to be as concentrated as the Swiftboat campaign was -- just a slow steady drip of nonsense that will be impossible to answer to since the Democrats don't have any major media outlets. CNN will have the accusers on and run their ads over and over in the name of "discussing" it. A $40,000 media buy becomes $20million worth of airtime for lies.

John Kerry admits it was a major mistake not to answer to the attack right away. But without any television media outlets how will we answer to it next time?

I think we need 2 things -- one a pre-prepared counter-attack: thousands of americans ready to flood the phones and email when CNN or whoever gives airtime and credibility to lies. The candidate themself needs to call CNN and demand to be put on the air while they interview these liars. If they won't put the call on air then they need to go to the studio and pound on the glass, call a press conference right on the sidewalk outside of Fox News or CNN or whoever it is that will host the liars this time.

2 - a pre-emptive strike on the credibility of CNN and the rest. People hate being told who to vote for and they hate lies. We need to make sure that more people can see through the agenda of the media owners so that their bias is obvious. Americans hate injustice and they love the underdog. Those are maxim that can work to our favor when the MSM starts slinging their lying mud again.

[liberal N proud]

1. It is my hope that our candidate, whom ever it is has balls enough to stand up to it

And call out a lie when it first hits the airwaves and not let them get away with running the airwaves with the bullshit.

[jobycom]

6. Balls are for playing games. I hope they have brains.

Standing up to it only hurts. The moment you start denying the charges, you've changed the focus of the campaign to a defense of yourself, which is what the Republicans want. Suddenly the Sunday morning pundits are talking about how credible your denial is and asking why it is that you have to talk about it everywhere you go.

Edwards has shown some creative ways this year to deal with it, with his Coulter Cash gimmick. He turned the attacks into a joke, and linked the association of her insult to his fundraising. That's one tactic, but I don't know if it will work on the more baldface tactics, like the Swiftboaters.

Whatever it takes, I don't want to see our candidates waving their damn balls around. There is oo much testosterone in our federal government already. I want to see them using their brains.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Has anything changed? Yes and no.

Yes, it has changed because the element of surprise is gone. We can expect it and prepare accordingly.

No, if we don't do anything about it when we know it's coming.

[jobycom]

3. Whadymean, next year? Hillary's "pro-war" stance, Edwards's house, Obama's madrassa...

Gore's electric bill...

The clock is already ticking. We can't even fight it here at DU.

[KurtNYC]

11. this is the part where the MSM defines the Dem candidates in unflattering terms

I agree with you that it is going on right now but swiftboating is part of their second phase.


The MSM/GOP playbook:

Phase 1: during the primaries, define each of the candidates as some version of a phony or hypocrit or both. Basic goal: whittle away the candidates base(s), suppress loyalty among supporters.

Phase 2: when the front runner is established, tailor and concentrate the framing efforts on them. Swiftboating used the alleged peers of Kerry to slander his name -- it was very specific. The goal of phase 2 is separate the candidate from their base.

American politics are all about who stays home versus who comes out and votes. That is why phase 3 is suppress and manipulate the vote. Gore is about to win in Florida... just stop counting the votes (!), stop the count at some point where you are ahead. Kerry going to win in Ohio...shut the computer off.

I think in a sense 2004 was like Bush had very high negatives, he had suppressed his OWN base by not being conservative on spending and isolationism, to the point where they just had to try and run Kerry's negatives up. But it looks like Kerry won Ohio anyway (or would have). And one thing the GOP has done well and unanswered is to get their maximum absentee voting.

[jobycom]

18. Good analysis. Thanks! nt

[BonnieJW]

4. WE HAVE THE BLOGOSPHERE!

I don't think it was as powerful in 2004 as it is today. It's this powerful today because of 2004. Can you imagine the backlash if our candidate is smeared? Can't get on TV? Who cares!!! It will be out on the blogs at the speed of light along with so many replies and so much dirt on the oposition they will need a shovel to see daylight again.

[stubtoe]

5. They'll switftboat, that's for sure. But I'm thinking that fewer rabid RW's will be left to care.

The media will pump it out, like bilgewater. But who will be willing to listen anymore? I think the Republican Party is moribund and getting more so as the war grinds on and the scandals pile up.

That's the optimist part of stubtoe talkin'.

[KurtNYC]

14. It is aimed at us

as another poster pointed out they are making a lot out of Hillary supposedly being "pro-war" -- that is aimed at her base and Democratic voters in general.

[Bitwit1234]

7. Pass the damn law....the Fairness Doctrine

Equal airtime and no lies...proof has to be presented.

[RedStateShame]

8. Which Republican would do that?

The one who's flip-flopped on every issue and is connected with a not-so-popular church, the former mayor with mob ties who let 9-11 happen on his watch between wives, or the Bush-hugging ass who proved just how "safe" Baghdad is? Maybe the guy that made it a point to discuss the Jews' history of money handling?

What could be fabricated about our candidates that's worse than the plain truth about theirs?

[Atman]

9. I wish just ONE of them would have the 'nads to say "These people are liars."

"They lied about John Kerry, they lied about Bush's National Guard service, and of course, they lied us into the biggest foreign policy screw-up in the nation's history...why anyone believes a word they say is beyond me."

Just one of em. Even better if ALL the democrats said it every chance they get.

.

[Buzz Clik]

10. "If"? It's not even a matter of when. It's happening NOW.

http://capitolhillcoffeehouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9517

This is typical.

And the responses thus far?

[AndyTiedye]

12. That's Why We Need GORE as our Candidate

Anybody but Gore will get swiftboated and will never be able to get their message heard.
That means we lose.

Gore has been able to go around the MSM to get his message out.

[Virginia Dare]

22. What makes you think Gore couldn't get swiftboated?

before the swiftboating happened, everybody said Kerry was untouchable.

I myself was delusional about the whole thing when it happened, I figured it would die a quick death, but the corporate media, whose charge was led by FAUX News, made a huge and rousing success out of it.

Gore is not currently running for anything, thus he's on a honeymoon with the press at the present time. You'd see that change in a hurry if he announced tomorrow, I guarantee it. They would drag out every tired RW meme ever uttered about him. Never say never.

[AndyTiedye]

24. The Other Candidates Have No Way to Fight Back Against Swiftboating

Once our candidate's message is drowned out by the swiftboaters, it's all over.

Gore has been able to get his message out despite the Repiggie "News" media,
so he may not be as vulnerable as the others.

[elocs]

13. As Sean Connery said in "The Untouchables", the Chicago Way:

"You wanna know how you do it? Here's how, they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way..."

No more Mister Nice Guy (or Gal). No more "I'm so noble I am above this". This is politics, not tiddley winks and it is not for the faint of heart. We do not have to make up anything because there is so much true and honest, live ammunition out there.
Don't just win the election--clean up. Then we need to hold ourselves as to as high of a standard as we want to hold the Republicans, otherwise the reign will be short.
The Neocons got smug with power. Really, let's not do that.

[mnhtnbb]

15. Depends on the candidate. Edwards probably least likely

to be targeted because he's been through it. The house/haircut won't get traction.

[WI_DEM]

16. We don't sit around for a month ignoring it, but fight back immediately!

[gauguin57]

17. Um ... we all yell, "I know you are, but what am I?"

All I know is: If they try to Swiftboat Hillary, they don't know who they're effing with.

Bill Clinton got a blow job in the White House from a chick half his age, and he managed to hang on, stay in office, and wind up running all over the world, as an eminence gris, with a REPUBLICAN ex-president happily at his side. He's beloved by millions, and gets a standing ovation everywhere he goes (even on the Rachel Ray show last week, for cryin' out loud). All this, after being a naughty, naughty boy.

Bill knows how to fight back.

They try to Swiftboat Hillary, and the Big Dog will knaw off their nuts.

[KurtNYC]

19. the Big Dog says "Every time they attack you it gives you a chance to

get YOUR message out." I wish more Dems would seize those chances.

[Virginia Dare]

20. Agreed, in terms of countering the swiftboaters...

the Clintons are best equipped to handle it hands down.

[sandnsea]

21. Not putting major money into the answer

He answered and says he answered. He says the mistake was not understanding that the media would run with the lies and that they would need to invest a major amount of ad money to counter the media. That's a different thing than not answering at all, which is just not true.

It would also help if Democrats learned how to be an echo chamber instead of a shooting gallery.

[zulchzulu]

23. I think people will be burned out by swiftboating with the war going so badly

It will be our duty to make sure that the Swifties 08 are YouTubed and that all other media channels hammer away at how complicit the mainstream media is with the corporate interests that will want nothing done with the environment, healthcare or control on the military industrial complex.

There will be 20% that will support whoever the Repug is no matter what. That's a given. I just think that a good Democratic campaign will hammer back at the Swifties 08 immediately if not sooner...like Harkin says with his relection strategy that has given him 7 terms, attack the motherf&8ers first. Boot on the neck before they can even get up...