POLL: Do you support the passing of current health reform legislation?

[mzmolly]

Just getting a feel for where DU is on the Sunday HC vote.

[Mz Pip]

1. A cautious Yes

from me.

Anything that is making the Republican this crazy makes me think it is probably a good idea. I don't believe the opposition to this is all some reverse psychology smoke and mirrors kind of thing.

I think they really want this to fail, not because they think it will make things worse, but because it will make things better. Can't have that going into the mid-terms.

[mzmolly]

2. LOL. I understand! Seeing Boehner's orange face turn green while he was speaking about reform

earlier, made my day. ;)

[Turborama]

4. They want this to fail because they want President Obama to fail

Regardless of the consequences. They are terrible when they win and even worse when they lose.

[thotzRthingz]

6. you are dead wrong... I would like nothing more than to see OBAMA succeed on everything he ran on...

and this CORPORATE WELFARE sort of bailout (under the guise of HCR)... is one of the very things which he ran AGAINST!

edited to add:

I don't know who "they" are... but I am a registered INDEPENDENT who supported, worked for, and voted for DEMS in both 2006 and 2008, including OBAMA (from the git-go, way before the "supposed anointed Hillary" lost her lead)!

[Turborama]

10. Mz Pip and I were referring to Republicans, not you

ETA If this bill fails, so will Obama's Presidency. If anyone thinks differently, they haven't been paying attention.

[thotzRthingz]

12. thanks for the clarification... as I do NOT support the current HCR Bill, and I openly criticize

Obama for his shortfall on promises made... I thought I too (like other "detractors") would be included in wanting him to fail. To the contrary, I would like for him to serve a 2nd term (and bring the Bush administration's WAR CRIMINALS to justice... among many other things).

[Mz Pip]

19. that's really the

bottom line with the Republicans. They want him to fail. They want to use that failure to run against him in 2012. And nothing works better for the opposition like the failure of a major policy decision.

I doubt HCR would even be a topic of discussion if McCain had won in 2008. We'd be running up the debt with other things - a war with Iran, trains, planes and automobiles the military does not need - and TAX CUTS!

[Turborama]

26. Yep, John Boehner said as much right after the election results came in

I can't find a video of it but I remember clearly his first reaction was that the Republicans will do everything in their power to make sure President Elect Obama fails. Limbaugh made a similar announcement and the Republican propaganda machine that is Faux news have done/are doing everything they possibly can to make this come true.

With regards to your comments about McCain, you are absolutely correct. We would be in the middle of a war with Iran right now and quite possibly be looking at a Palin presidency if the pressure and stress of being POTUS made his health take a turn for the worse. They MUST not win in 2012 by making President Obama fail, the horrific consequences for the US and the rest of the world are unthinkable.

[Mz Pip]

29. It's true

There is more at stake here than just HCR and that is why I am willing to support this bill. If HCR goes down the Republicans will smell blood in the water and be even more emboldend to obstruct anything and everything the Democrats would propose. They will fillibuster court appointments, just for a start.

I try to look at the big picture, beyond just HCR. A loss here would impact more than just HCR and for those who don't feel it is enough, just imagine what you'd be getting when the Republicans take over.

[GreenArrow]

54. Trouble is, if the bill passess

so ends Obama's Presidency. They should have either left the issue alone, or at least tried to pass real -- people centered, as opposed to industry centered -- bill. They painted themselves into a corner on this one, with the result that Republicans will be energized and Democrats will be deflated and disillusioned.

If I were voting, it would be a strong NO. "Better than nothing" is not an adequate selling point.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

16. My thoughts exactly. I'm worried, but I DO think it is better than nothing.

At least I hope.

[thotzRthingz]

3. with a robust public option (in lieu of single payer)... not only NO, but HELL NO!

[mzmolly]

5. Reid is talking a vote on the PO

soon, thankfully. :hi:

[Mz Pip]

7. that's how I look at this

It's a start and the momentum will build for a PO, but only after this initial firefight.

We will never, never, never have any chance of a PO if we can't get this small step through. it will fall into the dustbin of history only to possibly be revived a couple of decades down the road when the debt caused by the lack of HCR starts hammering the shit out of us.

[mzmolly]

8. I do agree.

:hi: This bill is a stepping stone.

[thotzRthingz]

9. well... the HOUSE already passed it, and he has 50+ votes already... give me one good reason

that it is NOT being included, via reconciliation? I'm too skeptical to take him at his word (after more than a year of fighting this battle, only to have him, Pelosi, and Obama STAB the public option in the back)!

[mzmolly]

13. I'm not going to debate with you in this thread. I can only make assumptions

that Reid doesn't have all the votes for a PO at this time? You are free to assign a bizarre, nefarious motive to Democrats if you like.

[thotzRthingz]

15. re: "I'm not going to debate with you in this thread. I can only make assumptions"

fair enough (and I hope you're right, but I can't trust Reid anymore... he'll need to EARN that trust through a plethora of penance... starting with a robust public option)

[gateley]

11. Yes. It's a corporate handout but there is SOME good, it's getting the ball rolling.

This doesn't have to mean the end. It's a start. The world's longest journey...

[ericinne]

14. I hate this poll

It should have the option:

Yes it's a necessary beginning to life saving, universal reform, but, it's too bad the bill has parts that are nothing more but corporate hand outs.

I think that's where my vote would be.

[gateley]

17. I think most of our 'yes' votes carry that sentiment. A yes, BUT... nt

[mzmolly]

20. The poll is based upon the current

legislation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Unfortuantely US history is clear on this

so it is the beginning of the fight.

[Mz Pip]

22. You can't make it

to the finals if you don't win that first game. (sorry for the silly NCAA basketball analogy) but it's really true with this.

If this goes down, there will not be a second game. At least not in my lifetime.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Social Security stunk to high heaven in 1935

and medicare wasn't that stellar in 1965.

As to your argument... SCHIP is just ten years old and it has been improved already... and I am sure a few Republicans are kicking themselves over it, since it was their bright idea. Proving they can have a good one at least once a generation.

Again, US History is damn clear on this. For many complex reasons that elude most Americans, who know little of their own country's history, as much as I'd like single payer now, and I am all in favor of it... not on the first round.

[OHdem10]

21. Grudgingly, I am supporting with a whole heap of hope that once

it is law, the Senate and House will begin to make some
improvements.

[grahamhgreen]

38. But they could do it in deem and pass, yet they are not.... not even allowing state single-payer

[RainDog]

23. NO. if Stupak gets his way.

if dems give in to Stupak they are giving up the rights of half the population in this country because of an organization that shields pedophiles.

there is NO way around the truth of this matter.

this organization, via the Stupak mouthpiece, is trying to cram its religion down the throats of women. The catholic church needs to get the fuck out of women's panties (and children's) and deal with their followers.

they may not FORCE their RELIGION DOWN OUR THROATS.

it's like legislative rape.

[mzmolly]

24. I don't believe the Stupak

rumor.

[Lorien]

28. Why do you think that it's just a rumor?

We've been sold out at every turn so far.

[mzmolly]

31. Unnamed sources, from unreliable sources

primarily. I will await confirmation.

[RainDog]

34. the source that is known is from Dkos

are they okay or not okay now?

lol.

I'm joking with you, btw.

[mzmolly]

42. Today Waxman said they don't think we'll need Stupak

and his crew. I hope they're right. :hi:

[RainDog]

30. he's such a sleaze bag, I don't put anything past him. n/t

[mzmolly]

32. He seems very wormy

that's for sure.

[gleaner]

25. No, I don't think it is a good bill ...It won't help anyone. n/t

[Lorien]

27. No. For these reasons:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7956377&mesg_id=7956377

Plus the fact that the mandates and lack of a public option will destroy the Dems in the next several elections. I's rather not have a repeat of the past eight years (though in most ways little has Changed); still-the Right gets more batshit daily, so we can't afford to allow them to take it all back. But this bill gives Progressives no reason to vote for the Democratic party. There are no price controls, no increased access to health care, no assurance that claims will ever be paid...it really is just another trillion dollar wealth transfer. The status quo sucks, no doubt about it, but it's like someone asking you "would you rather die by drowning or by burning"?

And no, this bill is not a "foundation"; it's the final deal.

[Mz Pip]

33. If this doesn't pass

there will be no reform, at all, probably within our lifetimes. It will become the third rail of politics. No one will want to touch it.

[Lorien]

35. Nonsense. The people can and should demand what they need

there isn't a time limit, though I'm sure the WH would like you to believe that. Beside, giving away billions to the wealthy and giving us nothing in return for it isn't "health care reform"; it's a scam with decent advertising.

[G_j]

39. from the start, I've felt like we were being blackmailed.

(for lack of a better term)

not enough votes..
the core reasoning we were bludgeoned with endlessly,
until there was next to nothing of what is really needed to turn things around.

not enough votes..

countless people will die,

congress will never deal w/ HC for another decade, if this bill fails.

the skyrocketing premiums will bankrupt us if we don't do something,

over and over and over

it's like a hostage situation,
and it's real,

I love Dennis Kucinich and I have learned to trust him over time.
Even he had to cry uncle.
Because it IS a hostage situation.

There are lives involved, but they made sure to include poison pills, and status quo profits. and in the end, we probably will be f#@&ed even worse, but there are some good things that will help some people.

Right from the start (& not a good one) single payer was left outside the gate.
I'm so angry, I could go on with the most vile and profane description of what I really think of most of these people.

uncle? I voted undecided

they don't care what I think at this point anyway,
nothing to do but pray for the best.

But WE tried, heroically!

we did everything we could.

[HillbillyBob]

40. to paraphrase a lady I knew a long time ago

"They could had done it right and made everyone happy (or at least us progressives relatively happy), but they had to piss it away"

We need to primary these selfish self serving so called conservatives, insteat we are goin to get 94 over again.

[notheyrejustwrong]

36. Small measured steps will get you there eventually

if you try to jump too far, you can fall on your ass


Yes, the insurance companies get 30 million new customers,
but they are being forced to operate on a smaller margin.
They are going to have to spend more money on each customer.

Passing this legislation is an important FIRST step and it is the right thing to do.

With all due respect to my breathren on the far left (and to me, far left is a term of endearment)
I love ya, but we've heard your objections, we agree with a whole lot of what you're saying, but we believe that it is more important to get our foot in the door, and then improve it with a SERIES of subsequent health care legislation.

Please believe me that I say this with the utmost respect for your views and especially your passion:
It's time to stop trashing the bill, help us pass it, and then get started on making the improvements that we all agree need to be done.

It's better to have 100% of a nickel than 0% of a dime.

Support for bill after being signed by The President: 65%
Public Option passed by Midterms.
One other significant improvement
House net loss: 8-10 (and don't be surprised if we gain seats. Yep, I said it )
Senate net loss: 2-3 (and or maybe +1)
Seven months is a long time in electionland, especially when you have a big influx of cash from the recovery act. Most of the money for the recovery act gets spent in 2010.
Seven months of steady positive monthly economic indicators (although unemployment numbers HAVE to come down to low 8s)

Flame away commies!:)

[mzmolly]

45. Thanks for the post.

I like this "It's better to have 100% of a nickel than 0% of a dime." :hi:

[upi402]

37. The starved will eat tainted food scraps

no option for me to vote. we're starved for good government. It's sick that THIS is all we get.

[mzmolly]

41. Thanks for all the votes.

We're about 60/40 in favor so far. :hi:

[LWolf]

43. No. nt

[begin_within]

44. I'm extremely saddened to see how many DUers are supporting corporate welfare.

[City Lights]

46. I'm holding my nose as I type, "yes." nt

[thotzRthingz]

47. if this POLL's exact wording were used on FREEPER websites... would the results be upside down?

IOW:

1. the DEM community (not talking only DEM politicians here) essentially wants Obama to succeed (sometimes, IMO, to a great degree of fault)... thus these results (60% in favor)

2. OTOH: the REPUKE community (not talking only CON politicians here) essentially wants Obama to succeed (most often, if not always, to a great degree of fault)... thus their results would be more like: 80% - 99.99% in opposition

just-a-thot

[FredStembottom]

48. Desperate Yes.

I say Yes on the faint hope that something in the bill's hundreds of pages gets health insurance for the increasing number of friends and family that are going "naked" right now.

Very. Faint. Hope.

[thotzRthingz]

49. Here's hoping, along with you... however, we must also face the facts:

If this abortion-of-corporate-welfare / HCR bill passes: I also hope that those "naked" you've mentioned will be among the covered (although I seriously doubt the AFFORDABILITY of such coverage). But if they are adults, with preexisiting conditions, they'll still have to wait FOUR YEARS before they can apply for coverage. Then too, some NINE years out... there will still be about HALF of the current number of UNinsured who will remain UNinsured.

There are currently some 50 MILLION UNinsured along with some 25 MILLION UNDERinsured (with many of those soon to be PRICED out of their coverage, thus joining the UNinsured) ... according to Wendell Potter and others.

Bottom-line for me? Give us a ROBUST PUBLIC OPTION NOW! There's really no good reason to wait... the HOUSE already passed a public option, and there are 50+ Senators who would support it. So why the HELL are Obama, Reid, and Pelosi so opposed to passing it now?!

The above said, here are some additional FACTS:

19 March 2010
Fact Sheet: The Truth About the Health Care Bill

<<<... scroll down for the HTML table version of 18 MYTHS vs 18 TRUTHS, example follows...>>>

MYTH: This is a universal health care bill.

TRUTH: The bill is neither universal health care nor universal health insurance.

Per the CBO:
Total uninsured in 2019 with no bill: 54 million
Total uninsured in 2019 with Senate bill: 24 million (44%)

click below for a PDF of this fact sheet:
http://static1.firedoglake.com/1/files/2010/03/mythfactshcr-1.pdf

- source: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill

[FredStembottom]

56. I am aware of much of what you say....

...still .... Today, I have this tiny, fragile hope that this rotten step leads to better things.

It's something for there to simply be a Democrat victory for the first time in years. I use the Freeper insult "Democrat" not to be a snot but to fit the right modifier to the word "victory". This clearly is just a victory for a lot of folks who call themselves "Democrats". Nothing D or d democratic happened here.

But it's a football nation and all the mis-guided celebrating over a win.... well it's good to have some energy back - might embolden many more Democrats to begin the long walk home to real Democratic values.

[DailyGrind51]

51. This really is the best we can do right now, considering the opposition.

[kenny blankenship]

55. "this is the best I can do for you" "this is the best deal you're going to get" Sounds familiar

Damn I KNEW I'd heard that voice before.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

52. "the passing of" is delightfully ambiguous

[kenny blankenship]

53. Truly it died a thousand times before being lowered into the grave.

[mzmolly]

57. So far, 211 votes and about 60/40 in favor of passage.

:hi:

[Yo_Mama]

58. I don't support it

I think we need reform, but this bill is not true reform, and I think it will stop true reform (for a few years).

Those few years will be costly in terms of lives and money.

I also believe that there is widespread support for true reform, and that this is an opportunity being wasted.

So no, I cannot support this bill, although I truly support health care reform.

[mzmolly]

59. Welcome.

:hi:

[Owl]

60. Absolutely YES.

[Motown_Johnny]

61. k