Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Fact Sheet: The Truth About the Health Care Bill

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
CornerBar Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:32 AM
Original message
Fact Sheet: The Truth About the Health Care Bill
Fact Sheet: The Truth About the Health Care Bill
By: Jane Hamsher Friday March 19, 2010 8:58 am


The Firedoglake health care team has been covering the debate in congress since it began last year. The health care bill will come up for a vote in the House on Sunday, and as Nancy Pelosi works to wrangle votes, we’ve been running a detailed whip count on where every member of Congress stands, updated throughout the day.

We’ve also taken a detailed look at the bill, and have come up with 18 often stated myths about this health care reform bill.

Real health care reform is the thing we’ve fought for from the start. It is desperately needed. But this bill falls short on many levels, and hurts many people more than it helps.

A middle class family of four making $66,370 will be forced to pay $5,243 per year for insurance. After basic necessities, this leaves them with $8,307 in discretionary income — out of which they would have to cover clothing, credit card and other debt, child care and education costs, in addition to $5,882 in annual out-of-pocket medical expenses for which families will be responsible. Many families who are already struggling to get by would be better off saving the $5,243 in insurance costs and paying their medical expenses directly, rather than being forced to by coverage they can’t afford the co-pays on.

============

Myth:



1. This is a universal health care bill.

Truth:



The bill is neither universal health care nor universal health insurance.

Per the CBO:

Total uninsured in 2019 with no bill: 54 million
Total uninsured in 2019 with Senate bill: 24 million (44%)

Myth:



2. Insurance companies hate this bill

Truth:



This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.
The original Senate Finance Committee bill was authored by a former Wellpoint VP. Since Congress released the first of its health care bills on October 30, 2009, health care stocks have risen 28.35%.

Myth:



3. The bill will significantly bring down insurance premiums for most Americans.

Truth:



The bill will not bring down premiums significantly, and certainly not the $2,500/year that the President promised.

Annual premiums in 2016, status quo / with bill:

Small group market, single: $7,800 / $7,800

Small group market, family: $19,300 / $19,200

Large Group market, single: $7,400 / $7,300

Large group market, family: $21,100 / $21,300

Individual market, single: $5,500 / $5,800*

Individual market, family: $13,100 / $15,200*

Myth



4. The bill will make health care affordable for middle class Americans.

Truth:



The bill will impose a financial hardship on middle class Americans who will be forced to buy a product that they can’t afford to use.
A family of four making $66,370 will be forced to pay $5,243 per year for insurance. After basic necessities, this leaves them with $8,307 in discretionary income — out of which they would have to cover clothing, credit card and other debt, child care and education costs, in addition to $5,882 in annual out-of-pocket medical expenses for which families will be responsible.

Much more here:
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. How were you able to post this with only 13 posts under
your belt?
As far as I'm concerned, FDL jumped the shark when they aligned themselves with Norquist. Their credibility is shot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CornerBar Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Are there any points from Jane
that you can factually refute?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. We don't need no stinkin' refutation!
We have innuendo and smears and that's all we need, you low post count person, you. Don't think you can go around factmongering here without us calling you on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. tee hee
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. She has not supported her assertions with fact
You've got to be a blind follower to think someone's word alone is enough to have to be refuted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It was posted yesterday by a long time DUer. But attacking the messanger isn't a great
way to debate the facts. Do you care to discredit it point by point with references?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. I'm sure they don't since they can't. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dupe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Slam Sheet, not Fact Sheet.
This is nearly as distorted as the crap the teabaggers are posting on other sites.

It's pure propaganda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Speaking of teabaggers...
:think: Pepperoni?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Finally! Someone who can refute this crap! I await your detailed analysis with great anticipation!
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's been done already. When something is posted and reposted
several times, the original refutation stands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Finally! Someone who can refute this crap! I await your links with great anticipation!
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. The delay discourages me not at all! Still waiting for your links with great anticipation!
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. For my patience is as great as my anticipation! Bring those links! Refute this crap!
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. to paraphrase Colbert,
the facts seem to have an anti-current-health-insurance-bill bias.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. +1 (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Do you have any sources to refute the OP?
We do already know the bill was crafted from barn yard scrapings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. of course they don't.
this is the Democratic equivalent of bush's war frenzy leading up to the invasion of Iraq.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Most you don't need to. It's all straw men and "yeah, but."
The first "myth" is "universal coverage." Who is saying this bill is universal coverage? Who? Jane doesn't document this. No one is. So that's a straw man.

Down further, she says a "myth" is that the bill bends the cost curve. In order to debunk that myth, she has to show that it doesn't bend the cost curve. But she only shows that not all cost-curve bending ideas weren't used. In other words, yeah, the bill DOES bend the cost curve, BUT it could have done more. Well, no shit. The bill does bend the cost curve, though, and so that's not a myth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Please point out what is not correct. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. how can one know what the costs for ind and family coverage will be in 2016
does that fit with the CBO analysis?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Naturalist111 Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
35. You are correct Sir
there are no facts here. Only voicing her opinions as statements. This has been posted several times. I thought there is a rule about re-posting same content by same author?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. This is the 3rd time this has been posted in the last 24 hours.
The first time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7955578

The second time got locked because the poster used some banned terminology involving cheerleaders and drones.

While DU reminds us that good citizens check for dupes, I don't mind kicking this back to the top, since I think it's important. I'll go get it from where it sits a couple of pages back.

I don't care how many of Obama's fans are pissed off at FDL and other sites for publishing content that is not complimentary to the current administration; I like truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Stuff gets posted and reposted constantly here..
It usually takes about a week for anything halfway interesting and topical to stop getting reposted..

Most folks aren't on all the time and once something rolls off the front page it disappears pretty fast..

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CornerBar Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. Can anyone
who disputes the facts posted by Jane Hamsher put aside the silly talk and just do a point by point factual refutation? I looked at the other thread on this and did not see anyone tackle the issues she raises on that thread either. What's going on here?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Perhaps you should spend more time over there.
Enough is debunked on this crazy thing to show it can't be trusted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CornerBar Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. For example?
Let me see some examples.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Go to the original thread. Spamming GD is against the rules.
There's no need to repeat here what's covered there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
21. i'm for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
23. Another unrec for a FDL link. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
24. knr. Thanks for posting this. I missed the initial postings, so I
appreciate that you are continuing to inform those of us who check in more sporadically.

Welcome to DU's fractured and contentious site, (was going to say "community", but that would imply more cohesiveness).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. Hmmm. Let's see. Hamsher or Dean and Krugman et. al. Tough choice? NOPE Pass the bill.
Jane Hamsher did a marvelous job during the trial of scooter libby. Unfortunately she has jumped the shark and her 15 minutes are up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
32. .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
34. K & R
Edited on Sun Mar-21-10 11:08 AM by SlingBlade
In spite of the usual suspects and their typical objections :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC