Here is MY problem with today's "Centrist" Democratic Party:

[bvar22]

"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.---FDR

That is the Political Party I joined 44 years ago.
My problem is, I haven't changed.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. "---Paul Wellstone

[Ken Burch]

1. Oh, you're one of those old stick-in-the-mud types who think the Democratic Party

should actually represent the non-wealthy.

How hopelessly outdated of you.

:sarcasm:

[ananda]

2. I so relate!

nt

[bc3000]

156. I relate too. I used to be a republican.

And I don't really think I've changed much either but apparently now I'm a liberal.

Of course if I go live in Europe I will be a conservative again without changing my political views. The other first world countries seem to be able to have both conservatives and common sense.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mod mom]

82. Sounds good to me!

[Cleita]

112. +1

[defendandprotect]

121. Notice that we might think the LEFT is unions, women and liberals...????

But Trumka is standing with this health care deform disaster ---

and haven't heard one "ouch" from women yet!!

Despite so much dismantling of women's programs and reproduction rights!!

Why hasn't the government taken on the responsibility of protecting and keeping

women's clinics open?

[JDPriestly]

126. You got it, jonathon. The New Deal Party.

[Octafish]

4. That's my problem, too.

The nation's been on a rightward tear since November 22, 1963.

Poppy Bush, on his inauguration, laid down the wood: "We have more will than wallet," signalling his intentions for social spending. During the Rodney King riot in LA, Poppy said the riot was proof of "the failed Great Society" programs his party had dismantled. Later, when the S&Ls were looted by his cronies, Poppy found a trillion to bail out the system. When the public refused to support a war to "liberate" Kuwait, Poppy lied America into thinking he was going to attack Saudi Arabia and turn WMDs on America. In sum: a blueprint for his dim son to follow.

[glitch]

11. "when the S&Ls were looted by his SONS and cronies"

please forgive the small edit, I believe Neil and Jeb both made quite bit on that little "proof of concept" con. (or maybe it was Marvin and Jeb -- I know one of them gave Jeb a $300,000 loan that was never repaid. How may of us could use a $300,000 gift, raise your hand :hi:)

[bvar22]

25. Neil Bush was on the board of Silverado Savings & Loan,

and that was "proof of concept", though it was nowhere close to a Trillion Dollars.
I believe it was closer to $55 Billion.

[Lasher]

65. The ultimate cost of the crisis is estimated to have totaled around $160.1 billion,

about $124.6 billion of which was directly paid for by the US government - that is, the US taxpayer, either directly or through charges on their savings and loan accounts<1>—which contributed to the large budget deficits of the early 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis

The S&L crisis was a clear warning of a larger catastrophe to follow. We are suffering now because we failed to heed this warning. And there will be another meltdown because we are doing nothing to restore New Deal precautions that prevented these catastrophes.

[Jackpine Radical]

79. Yeah, but back in those days a billion was still worth something.

[defendandprotect]

122. Whole S&L Theft & Embezzlement magilla was more like $600/$800 billion . . . .

or more . . .

That was Mario Cuomo's figure at the time --

[Lasher]

194. Maybe so, I was just sharing what Wikipedia has to say on the subject.

Cuomo might be a better source, I don't know.

[Political Heretic]

5. We should form a think-tank: Project for the OLD American Century

:P

[Jackpine Radical]

80. Paleoliberals, Arise!

[upi402]

6. All hail the Uniparty

there's no opposition to corporatism and I wont be silent

[bvar22]

7. "ALL Hail the Giant Invisible Hand of the Market Place!"

"The Giant Invisible Hand WILL Save Us ALL!"

"All we have to do is sacrifice the Working Class to appease the Giant Invisible Hand!!!"

And people say the Democrats are Anti-Religion.

[glitch]

12. and the advantages of government ownership to use that hand to loot your neighbors.

all hail the taking of State!

[readmoreoften]

29. Hey! It's the other way around! The Invisible Hand uses the State to secure your repression!

You put your chocolate in my peanut butter!
You put your peanut butter in my chocolate!

[upi402]

47. and we sell the combo on our TV n/t

[glitch]

109. Lol either way when it's the exact same people who own both the market and the state

Only what they produce is inedible.

[gimama]

8. I'm with You!

:yourock:
great OP

[Individualist]

9. K&R

[stray cat]

10. Maybe the voters other than yourself have changed - these guys win the election

so clearly overall the constituents are choosing their representatives

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. Or maybe they are told to "vote for the D". It's better than the other

option. Two elections I have voted for the D and then questioned if that is what I received.

[laughingliberal]

35. +1 nt

[ChiciB1]

85. I Too Have Voted "D" And Sit And Wonder So Much Of The Time...

I'm one who totally agrees with the OP! As a longtime "Boomer" Democrat, not one who "sold out" and became a YUPPIE like many, I ask myself all too often... What Happened?? What HAS Happened??

I bear some responsibility for going along with the "status quo" because I THOUGHT I was doing the CORRECT thing! But, as my father who introduced me to politics AND the Democratic Party used to tell me about various other things, "THAT'S what you get for THINKING!" Not necessarily speaking about politics though!

A SAD state of affairs that makes so many of us want to just up and LEAVE, or better yet just GIVE UP! I've been at the cross roads of this decision too many times in the past tens years! Even though I FIRMLY believe this all started before the past ten years, there HAD been thoughts that "we could overcome" but I'm not of that mind much anymore!

Obama, and THIS Democratic Party have made me even more bitter and cynical than I EVER thought I would be!! Sure, I was inflamed and cynical during BFEE, but now THIS, with OUR Democratic Party AND a Democratic POTUS... well put a cherry on top of it!! I await the next THREE years, but will it get better?? From what I've seen, I'd have to VOTE NO!

I "suppose" anything "could" happen, but HOPE isn't a word I use anymore! My HOPE withered a long time ago!!

[truedelphi]

162. I can't remember exactly who on this board explained to me

"It's one thing when your sworn enemy smacks you around and oppresses you. But when a friend or family member does it, it is far less acceptable."

Readin' day and night about fifteen months ago when bedridden with bad back, I ran out of reading material. Stumbled upon my son's HS book on Che Gueverra, and found his discussions of tyranny very pertinent.

Basically in Banana Republics, according to Che, when people tired of the CIA chosen tyrant, the CIA would back off their support for that person, and either kill him, or throw their support to a hand chosen, more pleasant candidate. Someone who would adhere to the same agenda as before, but with a smiling face, a pleasant and personable demeanor.

This, Che said, was the "negotiated solution."

And it is what we are up against now. We have no real media to parse any of Obama's statements out of the WH. No one to read the riot act to the man. Just a media intent on telling us about what ever teen celebrity died of an overdose, or Tiger Woods' mistresses.

If the likes of Cronkite or Murrow were in power, then we'd have a better Health Care Reform bill.

But our media gives us the "choice" of either supporting this industry-sponsored financial coup d'etat or the Neo Nazi Tea Baggers who are scaring the pants off us, as they knock a man with Parkinson's to the ground and taunt him.

Neither side will do right by us. But at least one side will smile when they take the last dollar out of our hand, rather than spitting at us. or so we say as we go into self-comfort mode.

[ChiciB1]

170. Cronkite & Murrow Were Great Voices "For The People" & From My

generation I heard Dan Rather speak up loudly! Even though he's still around today, AND still working at his trade, THEY really put him on the back burner too!!

Bob Dylan wrote that song... "Blowin' In The Wind" and I say "when will they EVER learn" from the same song!

Actually Jackson Browne has written some fantastic political songs too, and I so wish we had more of that going on today! Jackson is probably my ALL time favorite!! But Dylan, Baez and people of that time wrote some very good stuff, and many were out there WITH us as we made our voices heard!!

Today, we have TEA-BAGGERS! I realize time does change, we can't go back, but for all that it's worth, we MUST HAVE EQUALITY in some way TODAY!! Where it will come from, or when it will begin for "we the people" seems yet to be seen!

There IS ANGER brewing, and I say we need to keep shouting out, NOT rolling OVER or following some Pied Piper!! I'm NO Rat, I'm a human being who CARES what happens to a once great country!

I'm climbing down from my podium now... enough for today!

[truedelphi]

192. I forget the name of the film, but there is a wonderful documentary abt the

Hard times people faced in South Africa, before the apartheid was ended and how much music was part of their struggle. "Shambala" or something like that (I think)

A great and glorious film, and your mentioning the great musicians of the political decades made me think about it.

We do need new folk music. And new rockers. All to carry on the message. "Rage against the Machine" "System of A Down" are good, but there must be others.

[defendandprotect]

193. Ending the myth of corporate "personhood" is one place to begin . . .

http://www.freespeech.org/

upper left - petition

[defendandprotect]

183. Very nice post . . . would just pick up one point . . .

it's not just a right wing corporate-press . . .

for decades we've had CIA "journalists" -- and we now have what

seems like total penetration of the Pentagon into our "free press."

"The myth of a free press died with the assassination of Pres. John F. Kennedy"


Btw, Carl Bernstein did a lot of reporting on our CIA press . . . Rolling Stone

still carries the article, I think. When he began there were 400 of them --

Later, 1,200 -- Congress has never gotten around to barring CIA from our press!!

[truedelphi]

191. Much agreed, and thanks for including your remarks. It is very important to

get people to realize that the press has been infiltrated with the CIA missions. And a reporter doesn''t necessarily have to sign on as CIA - they simply have to "respect" the atmosphere of today's news room and not question or insist on covering stories unless specifically assigned.

[treestar]

91. You have to take that into account

It's reality.

Until there are enough Greens or Progressives (something that won't happen by scolding current Democrats that they should be molding their constituents into those) you have to deal with an uncomfortable fact: 48% of this country's population are still Republicans. Real Republicans.

You don't have to do as you are "told." You can vote for the Greens. If the end result puts actual Republicans into office, you take responsibility for that. Reality.

[liberation]

140. Percentages are a funny thing...

... barely half of the people who can do vote in the USA.

That 48% of the people you claim, is really closer to less than 24% of the population. There is 50% of the people out there who simply do not vote, nor care. And I can't say I blame them...

I don't quite get the twists and turns that those defending, what amounts to electoral black mail, have to come up to justify the hubris. Heck even the "love or leave it" is disingenuous, since you are going to blame those who leave for the hubris of those who love it. Oh, well...

[defendandprotect]

185. Love your post . . . but just want to say many do care, but have no confidence

in the Democrats any longer and don't bother coming out to vote --

The populist messages do increase the numbers who come out, however . . .

At least, that's the way I understand it --

And, of course, right wing propaganda does work!

300,000 "Democrats" in Florida voted for Bush in 2000!!

[defendandprotect]

184. DLC/Rahm have been collecting ....

DINO's to run against even liberal/progressive incumbent Dems!!

[Kalun D]

17. Changes

What has changed is the corporate grip on the television, 90% get their "news" from it.

The constituents choose their representatives based on what the corporate owned television tells them to think.

The prime example is Obama himself, portrayed as a progressive, turns out he's really a DLC corporatist.

Talking the working class talk a mile a minute on the corporate TV, Walking the corporate walk at 100 mph in reality.

It's only going to get worse, the vote machines are privately owned. Now there's another indication the dems are on the take, they haven't reversed ANY of the voting problems. And the S.C. just ruled that there will be no limits on corporate cash to buy politicians. So the white house and congress are going to become corporate whore houses even more than they are already.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. And 50% of Americans don't vote at all

which is way low on a worldwide scale.

[rhett o rick]

50. Ask a so-called "centrist" what they believe in and they will refuse to tell you.

That's because they would expose themselves as the republicans they are.

[hulka38]

60. They believe in what their leader believes in

and must continue to hold onto that belief under any circumstances lest their leader become weak.

[Bette Noir]

81. Or they run as liberals and govern as conservatives.

As soon as Mr. President appointed Rahm, I knew we were screwed.

[treestar]

90. + 1 zillion!

The purveyors of this type of post think it is the job of leaders to mold people's thinking - and at that, to their particular perspectives. They need to become the demagogues themselves (that they want our current elected representatives to be) and see if that sticks.

[liberation]

137. LOL...

Nobody choses having to chose between the lesser of two evils by choice.... nice try though.


What is next, telling us to eat shit because 100 billion flies can't be wrong? LOL

[defendandprotect]

182. You understand 2000, 2004 and computer election theft and you still say that?

America is a liberal nation -- and for decades votes have gone in the
opposite direction!

Was there ever a "Southern Strategy" or was there only election steals?

[OHdem10]

13. Music to my ears!!!!

Centrists are kinder gentler Republicans.

[bvar22]

16. "Centrists" are by definition.....

...almost Republicans.

[rhett o rick]

49. I believe most so-called "centrists" are republicans that are ashamed of their party so they

came under our tent.

[bvar22]

103. Our "Centrist" President IS...

...endorsing Republican Arlen Specter for the Democratic Senate seat in Pennsylvania.
The only thing Specter changed was the letter after his name.

[liberation]

164. Our centrist president also thinks Reagan was a swell guy...

... and he couldn't run fast enough to distance from his pastor, once it was shown what an unashamed liberal the fellow was.

Our centrist president keeps taking all sorts of abuse for the right with a bright smile, while his chief of staff goes around calling liberals "retarded" funny thing though, those liberals are part of the president's base, the far right is not.

Our centrist president stands fast by the previous admin and the controversial conservative members of his administration, but dumps the few liberals he has working for him the minute the GOP says anything remotely incriminatory.

Our centrist president thinks that right wing ideas and suggestions should be taken into account, while at the same time he is proud to admit he considers liberal proposals as not being worth of inclusion due to their lack of "practicality."


Yeah, for such a "centrist" guy. Mr. Obama has a penchant to err *always* towards the right. Doesn't he?

[Odin2005]

157. Centrist = Kinder, gentler corporatist.

[Odin2005]

15. America is a Single Party Corporatist State. The ruling party just has 2 wings.

One throws bones to the religious nuts, the other gives the little guy a few table scraps.

[laughingliberal]

36. Exactly. nt

[Kalun D]

18. K and R

K and R ++++10

[KittyWampus]

19. Over the last several weeks, I don't think I've seen you post a single Action Item. Not one thread

on something proactive. Not on Health Care. Not on electing Progressives.

I can think of quite a few liberal elected Democrats in Congress.

If you want more, why not stop complaining on the internet and do something in real life?

You have the nerve to post Wellstone's picture, he was all about getting involved.

Constantly typing negative crap on DU is the polar opposite of what Wellstone was about.

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. I am guessing 44 years ago this poster was 18.

Which would now put his age at 62. Perhaps he has spent those 44 years working for the party. We don't get to decide, just because we don't like somebody's post, that they are not politically as pure...er...I mean active as us.

I strongly disliked Kerry, and posted about it as often as I could here, on DU, during the primaries. That doesn't mean I wasn't pounding the pavement and knocking on doors for him. He was our only option. Funny how many of the people I worked with were either Dean or Kucinich supporters...who were also called the "biggest complainers" on this board at the time.

This is a place the politically active should be able to come and voice their (what you see as) negative comments.

[havocmom]

23. +1

Thank you. That SO needed to be said.

[laughingliberal]

38. +10,000 Perfectly stated. nt

[KittyWampus]

44. You strongly dislike Kerry but he is one of the most Liberal senators we've got. Further, I"M not

the "Puritst" who has spent weeks endlessly posting negative threads on DU.

I don't like the HCR Bill much and would prefer more direct solutions to the Health Care Issue but I don't need to trash the Democratic party, Obama and Democrats day after day.

Looking for pro-active thread from the daily-bitchers on DU is pointless. Maybe I should just accept that fact. Some people just love to wallow in the negative and enjoy trying to spread it around.

DU'ers are free to post endlessly negative threads on DU without ever offering suggestions for positive change and I'm free to point out that trend.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. That's not what I am down on you for. Point out what you want, but

you don't get to decide who is politically active based on posts on a message board. And...I will take Howard Dean over John Kerry to this day. How unfortunate that he is one of the "most liberal" senators we've got. It doesn't say much for us. And whether you like it or not I will continue to hold our politiicans' feet to the fire (or "complain" as you put it).

Take care.

[ChiciB1]

87. Holding "Feet To The Fire" WOULD Be Considered Being ACTIVIST!

At least that's how I look at it! I'm so tired of others calling "liberals" various types of names or people to be ignored that when I see the calling out, it ONLY shows me that certain persons want to keep wearing "blinders!"

Just because we disagree and/or call out those in the Democratic Party who have done something OPPOSITE to what they DECLARED they would do, DOES NOT, I repeat DOES NOT make one a "lesser" activist!

While I have wanted to "give up" many, many times, I'm STILL here, and I'm still making MY POINT OF VIEW known!!

And if ANYONE here thinks that the YEARS AND YEARS of activism so many of us have given should be taken so lightly, then I'm sorry that one is UNABLE to see WHY we feel OFFENDED!! We have worked hard and long for "we the people" and so much of it has been FRITTERED away in a short period of time!

That we would WANT that OUR President and OUR Congress Critters REPRESENT us, "we the people" isn't something that I, nor many here take lightly! Our IRE and disappointment turns to GREAT DEPRESSION a great deal of the time! HOWEVER, we HAVE been in the trenches for many years, and we GET THIS??

What a shame that we should be called THE ENEMY!!

Those who put themselves on a pedestal have further to fall, something that seems like an obvious thought to me! I feel like I'm on the BOTTOM rung of a ladder and the climb is MUCH harder than it ever was, and now I'm older and the climb isn't so nimble!!

[defendandprotect]

125. Agree -- and every time we start to see some truth here at DU, it's met this kind of display!!

An attempt to silence!!

[ChiciB1]

139. And These Comments Are "Why" Many Have Left DU, Which Is Something

shouldn't WANT to do!! I've been around here for many years and have tried to be understanding of other points of view. I've tried NOT to be vicious or nasty when someone disagrees with me, HOWEVER I am appalled by how many and how ugly so many attacks have become!

The phrase "we can agree to disagree" seems to have gotten lost and actually faded from any real debate here!

Click on GDP at any given hour and the SAME names appear over and over and you instinctively KNOW you don't even want to join in the debate! Mainly because it's NOT a debate! I'm not going to define what I feel they are because it's pretty useless anyway.

Don't they realize they are driving people away?? And just typing this I'm almost expecting one of them to say... "don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

Why was this country founded in the first place?? Was it because EVERYONE believed the KING OF ENGLAND?? I don't think so!

[liberation]

163. ... because they truly think that for every liberal that leaves, two moderate conservatives

are going to take his or her place.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

95. -->

[ChiciB1]

171. My First Thought Would Be This... Be Careful For What You Wish For...

But then, I STILL lose!! I'll be there for the REVOLUTION when it comes!

My next question... WHEN WILL THE REVOLUTION COME???
:shrug:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

174. Perhaps you could elaborate.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

196. My point: Look where Kerry is.

[defendandprotect]

124. Are we "trashing" Obama when we point out he's done what Cheney did . . .???

When Cheney held secret White House meetings with the Energy Industry did we disdain him?

When Obama makes side deals in private with insurance companies and Big Pharma should we

think he's on sacred ground because he has a "D" after his name?

Where's the outrage?

Where's the outrage for keeping these wars going?

Where's the outrage for a year of pretense when Obama had already assured the insurance

companies that 'THERE WOULD BE NO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH PROGRAM'---??????????????????

[onpatrol98]

68. Well, said!!!

:yourock:

[BumRushDaShow]

69. Except that 44 years ago, one had to be 21 to vote (26th amendment, 7/1/71)

:P

[glitch]

110. Voting isn't the only way to support a candidate.

I stumped for McGovern before I could vote as did many other kids in my high school. :P

[tekisui]

118. Excellent post, great points.

I don't like the health care bill in it's current form, yet I have called my Congressman and told him to pass it. The complainers, like you said are often the ones who are interested and motivated. They are upset because they pay attention and are involved.

[bvar22]

27. You have no idea who I am, or what I do, or what I have done.

Why does it bother you so much that I would post a direct quote from FDR?
I consider posting quotes from FDR to be something very positive for the Democratic Party.
Do you think that quoting FDR and Wellstone is an attack?
You don't like the comparison with today's Democrats?

I believe quoting them is a helpful reminder of who and what the Democratic Party SHOULD be, and am calling other "Democrats" to live up to their examples and Proud Liberal Values.

I had the honor and privilege of campaigning for Wellstone in Minnesota shortly before he was killed in 2002. I took the photo that appears in my post at a Democratic Labor Day rally on Harriet Island in St Paul one month before his death.

You don't know Paul.
I know Paul.

[readmoreoften]

31. She's a bully. What audacity to accuse other people of doing nothing. Idiotic.

I have no idea of what people do offline. It really pisses me off that these D-party rightwingers have the audacity to act like folks online who disagree with them are never in the streets. Only folks who AGREE WITH THEM are in the streets. Yeah, right.

[Occulus]

61. And check it out- in effect, she's saying that *quoting FDR* is

attacking Democrats.

That says a lot more about Kitty than it does about the OP, and none of it is good...

[defendandprotect]

127. DLC wants to rid government of anything New Deal, plus liberals/progressives . .

we're simply in the way of Corporate-Democrats!!

[rhett o rick]

160. Ask her and other so-called "centrists" what issues they support. They wont answer.

Because most are republicans in Democrat clothing.

[laughingliberal]

39. Well said!

What a loss it was when we lost Wellstone.

[ChiciB1]

173. I Loved Paul Wellstone & Remember HOW He Won His First Election

running around his state asking "where" his opponent was! Seems like it was a person whose name started with a B, but the name slips my mind right now! It will come to me!

Then they came for him... ON MY BIRTHDAY!

I'm still mad as hell!

[ChiciB1]

175. Okay... I Cheated... Did Google... Rudy Botswitch!! nt

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

51. Yes tell us the "good" Democrats that you appreciate. Maybe Ben Nelsen or Mary Landrieu

or Blanch Lincoln. Am I getting warm?

[sabrina 1]

53. I've read many of his/her posts and I agreed with

most of them. They are very appropriate imo for a Democratic Board. In any of his posts that I have read, he has been espousing Democratic Party principles.

Maybe the problem is you don't agree that this country has a right to a Health Care system that benefits the people more than the corporations?

Or maybe you disagree with holding war criminals accountable? Maybe you agree with the escalation of wars for oil?

And what actions do you suggest we engage in, now that we worked so hard to get a Democrat in the WH and a majority in both houses of Congress?

I know many people on this board will be working to elect real Democrats and rid this party of the DLC/Blue dog infiltrators. If that's what you mean, I agree. I'm starting with DLCer Jane Harman who badly needs to go, supporter of wars, spying on the American people (until it happened to her), Corporate Wealth Care and not holding war criminals accountable. Even though it's not my district, I'll be working for Marcy Winograd. Meantime, I see nothing wrong with discussing what is wrong with what the current crop of Democrats are doing so that we can choose better Democrats in the next election.

[bvar22]

57. Try again!

"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."---FDR

If THAT offends you, that is YOUR problem.

[Odin2005]

158. I miss Paul!

:cry:

[readmoreoften]

30. Why do you assume that OTHER PEOPLE do NOTHING offline, while you're some kind of fucking saint?

I bet I do more for social change in a month than you've done your whole life. If you have time to whine on the internet, why wouldn't other people? :crazy:

[dana_b]

32. K&R

great post!

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dflprincess]

46. He doesn't attack Democrats

he attacks centrist sell outs whose loyalties lie with the corporations who fund them.

Comparing the sorry state of today's Democratic party to what is was and reminding us what it should be is proactive.

[Puglover]

86. It's their favorite way of trying to shame

people who disagree with them. Trying to tell them or the rest of DU that they do nothing but post on the internet. How the fuck do they know what other posters do or don't do? There was a thread yesterday and the OP was screaming that they were so sick of the do nothings that just bitch on the internets. It was completely and utter bullshit however it had tons of recs. Go figure.

My ignore list (which I never ever used before this bullshit started) if full of these types. It makes DU much MUCH more pleasant.

[ChiciB1]

88. I KNOW THEIR NAMES, But Have NEVER Used The "Ignore" List.

Simply because of the fact that if people WANT to attack, they CAN!! And if they do, I wonder if it doesn't say MORE about THEM, than I!!

Many, here have been "running off" many long time Du'er's because of these types of replies. I know quite a few people who have left, and I MISS them!

If this is what DU is to become, I wonder how many more will leave!

[treestar]

92. +1000

Wellstone might well have voted for this bill, too. He was realistic, and was not about molding people to fit his ideas but just taking his part in the politics of the time.

[bvar22]

106. Here is a "Pro-Active" "Action Item" post from this week:

We don't have to eat the whole Shit Pie to get the good crumbs!

1)KILL this 2800 page labyrinth of trap doors, loopholes, and indecipherable legalese that fundamentally enshrines the For Profit Health Insurance Industry as the gateway to Health care in the US.

2)Break out the best pieces of the bill.

3)Offer them as individual, short, simple Stand Alone Bills.
This would cover Pre Existing Conditions, Rescission (Dumping), and other regulatory reforms.

4)Force them to the floor for Up or Down Roll Call votes.
Let the Republicans OPPOSE these easy to understand and popular reforms.
Suddenly, the Republican Party is NOT "Opposing the Government Take Over of Health Care",
they are FORCED to Support the Health Insurance Industry practice of Dumping Sick Americans.
Its ALL in the framing.

5)Raise the upper limit for Medicaid the same way.

5)Offer an incremental expansion of Medicare to the unemployed in the 50 -65 group NOT as Health Care Reform, but as Emergency Aid to this vulnerable and virtually un-employable age group.
.
.
.
Voila...the door to Medicare for ALL is WIDE OPEN, and achievable in lass time than the "Exchange" is scheduled to open.


I believe the House was already successful at passing a revocation to the Health Insurance Industry Anti-Trust exemption in a simple, Stand Alone Bill.
The Republicans in The House didn't DARE try to stop it.
Using THIS blueprint, The Democratically Controlled Congress could implement many of the GOOD pieces, and avoid the Terrible ones....if "they" wanted to.

But the Democratic Party ALREADY KNOWS this.
The PROBLEM is the "wants to" part.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7943395

Can't get more "Pro-Active" than THAT!

[scentopine]

138. Ahahahah - you beat me to it. Well I hope I disambiguated the work stream (below) -nt

[scentopine]

136. LOL! Good use of the term "Action item". If I may translate for non-DLC members...

you are socializing the idea of self-actualization by proactively assigning ownership to empower a best of breed paradigm shift. Bringing c-level corporate resources into the mix leverages DU as a force multiplier to upsell centrist core knowledge. You are enabling key players for participation in an integrated solution to performance management.

Hope this helps.

[liberation]

146. LOL Zing....

Freudian slips are funny that way.

Well played ;-)

[liberation]

143. So what have you done?

[inna]

145. Are you capable of making an argument without resorting to ad hominems?

Apparently, not, and that's a shame.

You always attack the messenger. It's a very poor debate tactic and it reflects badly on you, not on those you're attacking.

[rhett o rick]

159. Let me get this straight. YOu are complaining about a poster's complaining?

But you never stick around to complete the discussion. You just come on by and drop a turd-bomb and move on.

[leftstreet]

21. K&R

[jannyk]

22. Huge K&R!!

[amborin]

24. K&R

[Karmadillo]

26. K & R.

nt

[xchrom]

28. Recommend

[WillyT]

33. Me Too... K & R !!!

:patriot:

:kick:

[readmoreoften]

34. There's nothing "centrist" about them. They're a straight-up right wing corporate entity.

New Democrats: Political Right
Republicans: Far Right
Tea Bagger: Far Right Extremists

I'm not yielding the term "centrist" or "moderate" for union-busters, abortion rights capitulators, insurance backroom-dealers, and other such creatures. They're the Nixon Republicans of yesterday and I'm done with letting them slide this country further rightwards by calling themselves the "center."

[upi402]

37. +1

and keeping my powder dry for the DLC ouster coming after this HC"R" vote.

[Individualist]

45. +1

[Lorien]

48. I think Teabaggers almost defy description. "Batshit crazy mofos" maybe, or

"Racist, fascist, hate crazed Zealots" ....heck, I'm sure there are more creative descriptions out there. ;-)

[liberation]

147. ... and yet at the same time, the teabaggers are the useful idiots to these so-called "centrist"

Apparently, that is the new DLC approach to this mess: equate those on the left who don't support this bill due to the fact that it does not provide enough reform, with those on the far right who oppose any hint of reform. In that sense, the teabaggers are the proverbial useful idiots for these so-called "centrist."

And there is nothing "centrist" or moderate about people who advocate corporate interests to prevail over the interests of individual citizens, there is nothing "moderate" about advocating the escalation of a senseless war, there is nothing "moderate" about performing the biggest transfer of wealth in recent history...

[chill_wind]

62. You are so very right on!

eom

[laughingliberal]

40. K & R nt

[Hippo_Tron]

52. So long as working class people vote on "social issues" no such party will ever exist

The DLC, Blue Dogs, Conservadems, etc. were all reactions to the fact that working class white people (a key part of the New Deal Coalition) decided that keeping black people from having equal rights was more important than their own economic interests. Subsequently they also decided abortion, gays, etc. were also more important.

There will never be a working class party so long as a substantial portion of the working class votes based on these issues and can't be persuaded otherwise. The natural strategy at that point is to start courting upper middle class voters who don't like the religious wrong. And of course that is naturally going to lead to a less working class friendly platform.

[pattmarty]

83. So you're advocating "dumping" the working class? What the fuck............

.........that is needed is for US to convince these "teabagger" types that they really are all around better off with liberals, financially and socially. Ya still need actual votes in this country to get elected and we need to do a hell of a lot better job of convincing a lot of poor whites to vote their wallets and self interest. That's why the Republicans can't win with just their "upper middle class voters" they need to propagandize the poor and working class to get enough votes. What the fuck do you really think Fox "news" is for?

[Hippo_Tron]

104. The white working class dumped us

And at this point many of them are unpersuadable christian fundies or that would never even consider a Democrat unless we radically changed our stances on social issues. Furthermore you have the types that actually think Republican tax cuts benefit them. When you have someone who makes 30 grand a year protesting the "death tax", how in god's name do you think that person will ever vote Democratic?

[pattmarty]

141. You have to educate somehow. How do you think the GOP and Fox............

...........did it? In both their cases they "educated" them by scaring them with "Mexicans" and "Negroes and actually convinced them that tax cuts were going to help them. Believe me, I was and am "working class" and ALL are not teabaggers by a long shot. The teabaggers are exactly like the Brownshirts of the 30's a small very vocal and sometimes violent MINORITY. Because if they truly left as you say, the Dems wouldn't be winning shit. So the working class is just like the left in that they keep voting Dem even though since the 60's they are also getting constantly fucked.

[Hippo_Tron]

151. We try and "educate" them all of the time, it doesn't work

How did Howard Dean do when he tried to explain to guys with confederate flag decals on their trucks that they should vote for him because they need health care too? And we are winning quite a bit with a coalition that consists largely of blacks and hispanics as well as upper-middle class white people. The fastest growing Democratic strongholds are in places like Northern Virginia, which has some of the wealthiest counties in the country. These people are social liberals and used to be moderate Republicans but aren't anymore because they don't like the far right. But they also probably aren't fond of anything that is too economically populist because they don't benefit from it.

[pattmarty]

165. Right. That's why the Democratic party is in the fucking mess..............

...........that they are. They strayed from their base and will be left with what the Republicans have now. Everybody else will stay home. Things will continue to get worse, education, continued widening of the economic division between rich and poor. Yep, nice country. In about 20 yrs the people will be so fucking uneducated and poor your Virginia will look like Juarez.

[Hippo_Tron]

176. Once again, THEY LEFT US

Nobody conspired to start moving the party toward the economic center to get voters in Northern Virginia while the white working class were still in the party. They left the party in first in 1968, in bigger numbers in 1980 over integration and other social issues and other than move backwards on these issues, the Democratic Party had NO CHOICE but to start appealing to more affluent voters.

Howard Dean and many others have tried to point out to these people that they need to stop voting Republican because of social issues. THEY DON'T LISTEN!

[pattmarty]

179. Well, you now truly have "Republican lite". I won't be the only person...............

................that would normally vote Democratic staying home in November. The reason they lost the un-losable Kennedy seat is they were perceived of having huge majorities in both houses with a President that promised change and not a goddamn thing was getting done. That and the clusterfuck of a health "reform" bill that took 14 months will fuck them up big time in November. And I WILL have no qualms saying to people "I told you so".

[Odin2005]

161. Classist Garbage.

[pattmarty]

166. Yes it is.

[Hippo_Tron]

177. Nothing classist about it

The simple fact is that the working class is divided into two parties when it needs to be consolidated into one party if there will ever be a party that has a platform similar to FDR's New Deal. Blacks and Hispanic working class voters tend to vote Democratic and White working class voters tend to vote Republican. This isn't to say that there aren't white working class Democrats, there certainly are. I met about two dozen of them yesterday at a political event. But there simply aren't enough of them to have a working class friendly party and too many of them are un-persuadable due to social issues for the Democrats to try and appeal to them. Until this changes, Democrats are going to keep focusing on places like Northern Virginia because that's how they can win.

Oh and if you think I'm implying that affluent voters aren't socially conservative as well, that is not what I'm implying. I simply say white working class voters, because they were the key part of the New Deal Coalition that gave Franklin Roosevelt the support he needed to advocate for policies that the OP discusses. Presumably affluent people who are economically and socially conservative aren't people we are trying to appeal to.

[pattmarty]

180. Your theory is gonna fall flat when the blacks & hispanics in your...........

............"dream coalition" don't fucking show up in November either. You have to give them something if you want to keep them voting for you and the party isn't giving them shit either. So the Democratic party will consist of rich "elitist" white people and the Republican party will consist of rich "elitist" white people with a few low class racist slobs. Good fucking luck in November.

[Dinger]

55. Damn, I Miss Wellstone

May I borow your picture and sig line? Pretty please?:)

[bvar22]

113. Absolutely!

Here is the whole quote:
"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

The photo is my own, and you are welcome to it.


Some other great Wellstone quotes:

"When we all do better, we ALL do better"
(One of my favorites)

"Above and beyond the question of how to grow the economy there is a legitimate concern about how to grow the quality of our lives."

"I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

[Dinger]

115. Thank You bvar22!

There should be a book of Wellstone quotes. "Chicken Soup For Wellstone Democrats"?

[Dinger]

56. Another Kick, And Rec # 58 : )

[ihavenobias]

58. # 62. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

59. That is the Political Party I joined 40 years ago. My problem is, I haven't changed. I'm

now called a leftist.

[earth mom]

63. That's the world I thought I was living in too. It's been a very rude awakening.

Especially when the dems are the ones stabbing us all in the back! :grr:

[Hubert Flottz]

64. "Centrist" DemocRats hate America just like the GOP does.

They are in politics for what they can get out of it for themselves, not for the good of their country.

It's a good thing our government employees in the military aren't such unpatriotic, self serving, cowards as these "Centrist" DemocRats.

Maybe these bad apple Centrists need to form a Centrist party and stop rotting the democratic party to the core.

[Vinca]

66. Good post. I just started reading a Bob Woodward book about

the 1996 election (Clinton/Dole). After the 1994 Republican takeover of Congress, Clinton intentionally tracked to the right as a "New Democrat" and blamed the loss of the Congress on the lefties. It makes me ill.

[pattmarty]

84. I have to say this because of all the "Clinton worshipers" here at.........

............DU. Bill Clinton was a smart, shrewd douchebag politician. I am so fucking tired of hearing about the "economy". I don't give a fuck about how many blowjobs he got (or any other politician gets for that matter) what I give a shit about is fucking RESULTS. The last President to product results for the working class was LBJ. Jesusfuckingchrist, Nixon was more socially liberal than Clinton, Carter or fucking Obama.

[bvar22]

114. Poor Bill.

His title as "Best Republican President EVER" is in mortal jeopardy.

[pattmarty]

142. You're right, after a year it ain't looking good for him to hold the title.

[western mass]

67. PROBLEM is using terms like "Centrist" rather than "corrupt"

The problem with the Dem Party (and the GOP for that matter) isn't ideology, it's corruption.

There's nothing "centrist" about being on the take. Being on the corporate payroll, and part of the government-lobbyist revolving door, doesn't have anything to do with "liberal" or "conservative."

[defendandprotect]

128. Corporate-Democrats . . .

are simply pre-bribed and pre-owned by corporations --

Until we overturn the mythical "personhood" we're going to be under corporate control.

MOBILIZE . . .

http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left/Petition

[daleanime]

70. I'm so there....

:fistbump:

[defendandprotect]

129. Liberals/progressives have to stick together as voting bloc . . .

MOBILIZE . . .

http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left/Petition

[Solly Mack]

71. k/r

[democracy1st]

72. K & R

[madrchsod]

73. neither have i.....

the democratic party has been sold out to the highest bidders.

at least i do`t have to waste my time and money on the presidential campaign. i`ll worry about my local elections from now on.

[SlingBlade]

74. K & R We Progressives Didnt leave the Party

The party cheated on us with the right wing

[defendandprotect]

130. The difference between corporations/elites and us is that they are organized ...

and we aren't --

Whatever we do we have to do together as a voting bloc --

MOBILIZE . . .

http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left/Petition

[NorthCarolina]

75. When possible, vote for Liberal/Progressive primary challengers to DLC "New Dem" and

Blue Dogs. That's what I plan to do.

[Echo In Light]

76. k/r

[pleah]

77. K&R

[fascisthunter]

78. kick (nt)

[scentopine]

89. What is a centrist? Reagan republican? Or something even worse?

Centrist
–noun
1. (esp. in Obama Admin) a member of a political party who empathizes with the need for corporations to make profits without the encumbrance of principals, morals, ethics, civil law or criminal law;

2. a politician who holds a smug composition of academic purity; takes path of least political resistance; deferential to wealth and power; conservative; moderate; realist.

I will argue they are worse than the extreme right wing whose intentions are crystal clear - this fact makes it easy to fight against the right wing. The centrists triangulate with real-time sentiment then stab you in the back the minute there is a small person gain for themselves. They are unprincipled predators. Centrists are armed with Ayn Rand and MBAs and they attach themselves to a host to feed. They are incapable of surviving on their own.

Like NAFTA, Energy deregulation, banking deregulation - health care is the next big transfer of wealth from the 90% non-rich to the 10% rich. The centrists have put themselves at the center of this transfer of wealth - like the old New York toll collectors.

We need a new political party.

[treestar]

93. There is a socialist party

It has failed to get voters to vote for it in significant numbers.

[liberation]

148. And there is this thing called intellectual honesty... look it up if you are unfamiliar with it.

So let me see if I get the MO of you guys:

Step 1. Scare any voter on the left that unless they vote Dem they GOP gets in
Step 2. If the Dems do not win, blame it on those on the left who dared not vote Dem. Go to Step 1
Step 3. If the Dems win, as soon as the people on the left start requesting actual deliverables from the Dems, tell them they can vote someone else and to stop bugging Dems with responsibility and demands for concrete results. Go to step 1.



Rinse repeat...

[Individualist]

94. Centrist is a label DLC/NDC hides behind.

The only thing worse than a neocon is a neocon enabler.

[nightrain]

96. knr. The traditional Democratic values have been corrupted by greed.

[dembotoz]

97. post almost brings tears to my eyes.

so true
so very true

and isn't is hightower whose book title was something like
The only thing in the middle of the road is a yellow line and a dead armadillo.

[L0oniX]

98. K & R

[asdjrocky]

99. Keep saying it.

[Agony]

100. Kick & Rec nt

[pundaint]

101. Yeah but we hire a damned scary military - Who needs butter when we got all these guns?

[defendandprotect]

131. MIC is the sacred cow bankrupting our Treasury . . . and Dems refinancing war 3 years!!!

[grantcart]

102. Since all we have to do is to reissue FDR speeches I look forward to your announcement

of candidacy to the House of Representatives.

[defendandprotect]

132. First, the very idea that being inside government creates change is inane . . .

And Howard Zinn certainly made that clear in his many discussions --

that CHANGE actually comes from pressure by citizens working outside of government.

If you at all understand the Senate and the House . . . you see that the people from

the first were underrepresented and remain direly underrepresented today.

You also note that the Senate is the conservative/right wing branch intended to keep

progressive action at bay in the interests of the elites.


Secondly, the concepts of the New Deal are embedded in FDR speeches --

so is the very spirit of democracy and social concerns.

And, anti-corporate concerns ...

but it would be difficult to expect FDR's anti-corporate blastings of the right

to be appreciated much by the DLC and Corporate-Democrats!

Let's be honest about that, at least!!

[liberation]

149. This is like the 100th time I have seen this intellectually bankrupt counterargument used in DU

You haven't run for office either, therefore you do not pass the requirements you are trying to shovel down other people's throats. Therefore, you should apply your own standard and shut it already.

Or what is good for the goose is selective and optional for the gander coming up with it?

We do not have to run for fucking office in this country to open our mouths regarding what we think of the performance of our elected officials. It is called a free democratic society, in case you are having trouble understanding what this country is.

[Individualist]

105. K&R

[Jim Sagle]

107. Fuckin' A.

:headbang:

[Eyerish]

108. A-fucking-men!!! K&R

[Cleita]

111. Right on!

FDR's party is the one I joined too, not the DLC's party.

[gtar100]

116. By the standards expressed by FDR, we are failing

They seem to me to be self-evident truths. But instead, they are treated like a poison pill by a lot of people and what seems like the majority of business owners. Instead of the above, they simply go by "the right to do whatever I want, regardless of who it hurts".

We were truly fortunate to have a man of such character as FDR at that time. We apparently are not so lucky this time around.

[defendandprotect]

134. That's why corporatism is fascism . . .

Right now with Obama making private deals with insurance companies and Big Pharma --

having assured them that 'THERE WOULD BE NO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE PROGRAM' long ago ....

I'm wondering why we're even electing a Congress?

We were supposed to support and protect the New Deal -- but right wing propaganda was stronger --

and their money bought so much of government and our elected officials -- that Americans were

confused by disinformation. That's still going on.

Plus, computer voting may have been the basis for the alleged "Southern Strategy"???

The computers began coming in during the mid-and-late 1960's . . . just about the time we were

passing the Voting Rights Act!

Was there ever a Southern Strategy or were there only computer steals?

Rethink Humphrey/Nixon -- difference of 100,000 votes?




MOBILIZE . . .

http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left/Petition

[The Hope Mobile]

152. +1 nt

[tekisui]

117. knr!~

[ILFightinDem]

119. K&R - n/t

[defendandprotect]

120. Put it this way: If this is now a "Centrist" party...where do liberals/progressives go now?

[stuart68]

123. The problem with rights

is that some think they will not need to contribute to get these rights. Rather, we need to remove impediments for people so they have these opportunities. Look at Habitat - you have an opportunity for a good house, however you MUST contribute to the next person's.

[Greyhound]

133. today's "Centrist" Democratic Party are Republican'ts without the guts to

go take their own party back.

[defendandprotect]

135. Well, with two Republican parties, where do liberals/progressives go now that Obama has tossed ...

us out?


And I sure don't hear any Democrats protesting what Obama said--!!



Meanwhile, the main difference between the elites/right wing and us is that they

are organized and acting together -- we aren't --


MOBILIZE . . .

http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left/Petition

[Karmadillo]

155. Well, for some of us, it's probably a time of trying to figure out what to do next. There's

nothing like power when it comes to politics and those of us left of center clearly have none at this point. Whether it's trying to revive the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party (reanimate Paul Wellstone?) or something else, we need to start thinking and acting outside the coffin. There's nobody riding in on a white pony to save us, so we better start saving ourselves. Blah, blah, blah and I could go on, but it's not like I have a clue.

[defendandprotect]

181. Notice the tender loving care the rw anti-abortionts got from Obama today . . .

Vs what liberal Kucinich got the other day ... i.e., nothing!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul


First step seems to be to end myth of corporate personhood ....




PS: Keep in mind it's taboo to discuss 3rd parties here as an alternative to Dems . . .
can get you bounced!

[Karmadillo]

186. That's not a good sign for the next three years. This isn't Obama placating the right

because he's being pushed there against his will. This is Obama being Obama. Makes me think we won't see NAFTA reform, but we will see Social Security "reform."

[defendandprotect]

187. Obama has already indicated not planning amending trade agreements . . .!!!

Agree with you re Social Security -- and Medicare --

Elites/Corporates have long been after those programs --

and, sadly, looks like Obama is going to help them.

Look at what he is doing to public education!!! Supporting charter schools,

attacking teachers -- another wide opening to destroying unions.

Teachers' union is one of the largest, if not the largest!

[Overseas]

144. That has been my problem for a long time too. When progressive action becomes the most pragmatic

once again, such as after the Bush Crash and Bush Bailouts, after the Bush Gang torture and war profiteering, I get excited to have a 21st century FDR candidate. Progressive and pragmatic are the same thing and can be argued from solid democratic economic grounds.
-- Using bailout money to strengthen the majority is economically beneficial to all, not just the bonus grubbers. Even a cursory review of the Bush Gang years would indicate their neglect of our national infrastructure. Millions of jobs rebuilding, right off the bat, could have been pragmatically defended-- the income will allow our people to pay their mortgages and keep their homes.
-- Medicare for All as the bottom line safety net would have been easy to defend. Especially after the Bush Bailouts were foisted upon the new administration. They bailed out big finance-- we need to help our people. We all knew way back then that private health insurance had blown the triggers of decency off their hinges ages ago, since stomping out national health insurance back in the 90's. I could picture a Ross Perot style-- "They told us they could do better. Leave it to the wisdom of the private sector. Well lookie here-- what did they do-- Increase their premiums and Reduce their Coverage and Increase their Profits."
-- And it would have sent a very pragmatic message-- corporations can no longer so brazenly rip off millions of our citizens. There is a place for regulation in a "free market" system, especially after the triggers of decency have been blown off their hinges and our fellow citizens are going bankrupt paying for medical emergencies. I thought it would be very pragmatic to just take a clear look right off the bat. "One Sixth of the Economy!" = What percentage of the American people are suffering? Clearly dieing early. 37th in the world for national health security.
-- With the planet clearly suffering from the effects of industrial pollution, and those effects crossing national boundaries, how we handle our own greening becomes a national security issue, part of our national defense to reduce international antagonism in a world of increasingly limited resources and destabilized climatic systems. Therefore, naive me assumed adding millions of greening, retrofitting, public transit and regional micro-farming to the infrastructure jobs would have been doubly pragmatic-- Our president goes to Copenhagen with millions of greening jobs underway, demonstrating our commitment to reducing our national carbon footprint, and we have millions of desperate fellow citizens back to work and spending their money in local communities, keeping those towns alive.

But I was going Grand Pragmatic -- what would be best for the nation and the most of us.

Forgot about the immediately pragmatic need of every elected official for more campaign funds. We saw glaring examples of votes lining up with the cash, and didn't have enough national dialogue centered on that fact. In spite of the months and months of pulling effective cost controls out of the bill to "make it appeal to Republicans" and get a 1% bipartisan vote. That interval could have been more productive if we had a more robust free press, but ours is dominated by privatizing conservatives who have profited handsomely from the status quo. And we knew that already too.

By taking the time for the Bipartisan Gestures, we allowed fellow citizens' desperation to be swept up into a right wing fever, instead of catching them right off the bat with a clear examination of the country our democratic president had inherited, and a no-holds barred bailout like Medicare for All to demonstrate our democratic pragmatism immediately. Emergency bailout with a determined rollout by summer of 2010. We could have preempted the fear-mongering experts whose handiwork we'd already seen in the McCain Palin Country First rallies.

We allowed the Democratic party to be seen as desperately negotiating with the 29% Party. The GOP Grand Obstructionist Plutocrats who had driven the country into a ditch already. Pretending they were the party of fiscal discipline when they hadn't been since Reagan's soaring deficits and Bush's Reconciled Tax Cuts for the ultra-rich in a time of war. Couldn't even have a Used to Be discussion-- Republicans Used To Be interested in fiscal discipline but we're coming off of Bush Gang rule and Cheney who said Deficits Don't Matter.

Republican popularity was very very low. I called them The 29% Party for a while last spring. That also affirmed my view that millions had voted Democratic Party because they wanted change that benefited more than the top 5%. So I was ready for Single Payer, and millions more green jobs-- that would unite the young and older in our party. And conscientious greening would also be a way to rebuild our international stature after the disgraceful abuses of power of the Bush Gang.

So I was hoping we'd grab the democratic agenda more proudly, after it had been systematically crushed, defunded and culturally depopularized for decades, and prove its practicality in the doing.

So I feel like I've had a year of naive dreams being crushed one by one.

And the deeper political understanding that a lot of what those friends whose views seemed too extreme at the time were saying has actually come to pass.

[Raksha]

167. Very articulate post, and I agree with you 100%.

The most progressive solutions *ARE* the most pragmatic. I've known that for a while now, and I don't think I'm alone.

[Overseas]

189. We're definitely not alone. We voted in the millions for Democratic Change.

Millions of people cast votes for the party of FDR.

But I guess we just didn't have enough cash to overcome corporate buying power. Bipartisan gestures seemed to have been utilized to provide cover to retain those priorities. To shore up campaign cash.

But sad to think that had Democrats taken their mandate to heart and pushed through the best public bailout of Medicare for All, they wouldn't need as much campaign cash because millions would rush to the polls in thanks for being free of the terror of medical bankruptcy.

[bvar22]

169. Excellent post!

The Democratic Party Leadership has produced a miracle.
Their mishandling of HCR has resurrected a DEAD Political Party and given them credibility for opposing this bill.
The Republican Party (the 29%ers) has gotten virtually everything they wanted in this bill without taking any Political risk.
The year long drama of the Democratic party giving away issue after issue to the Republicans gained them exactly NOTHING.

[Overseas]

190. Thank you. It certainly has been mystifying

trying to figure out a non-cynical goal of the bipartisan gestures and pretending that the reckless party still made any sense at all. At the very least, enabling their revisionist history babbling has been very annoying. How dare we allow Bush Gang darlings to brag so freely about their greatest failures.

But the answer is that we don't. Our right wing dominated media does that.

But I keep looking for the bright spots and appreciate those. And spring is here again.

[swilton]

150. Definition of 'national security' is key here

To centrists and the DLC ilk it only is defined in terms of the military - which is so interesting since not many of them have served (Evan Bayh, Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, etc., etc.)

[defendandprotect]

188. And the "national security state" is a very dangerous environment for democracy/freedom . . . !!!

We are all enslaved now to the corporate MIC --

In act, when Ike first planned to discuss this before his departure,

he included "Intelligence." It was Military Industrial Intelligence Complex.

The next time he got the draft back, "intelligence" had been removed.

He added it back in again -- removed again!

Ike wasn't the first nor last president to be betrayed by the CIA/MIC .....

[RedCloud]

153. May every day be the fifth of November, bvar22

[colsohlibgal]

154. Centrist = DINO

It's just like this; the republicans now sit just the slightest, for now, to the left of Hitler, centrists just walk that back a bit left, just want to go along with screwing the middle class a bit less.

The republicans make a bunch of crazy noise but the reason we're not getting the change we were promised is middle of the road waffling by too many "democrats", chief among them Obama.

The people are going to have to turn this ship around ASAP and that will take supporting honest to goodness progressives in primaries against DINOs.

The other thing is a sticky wicket....Obama has been Mr. Centrist but above all else we don't want to have a wing nut president take over in 2013 and be able appoint maybe 2, or more, Supreme Court Justices. I'm on record wanting a liberal challenger to Obama unless he quickly does about a 180 turn, but we're all going to have to play this by ear for awhile - above all we want to change the balance of power on the court.

[Cary]

178. Ridiculous. Just utterly and wholly ridiculous.

We have a huge success. You should be enjoying that success, after the lost decade we just went through.

The future is wide open. There's plenty of room on this bandwagon for you and it's a much better place than you're in right now.

[UrbScotty]

168. Why don't you DO SOMETHING about it?

[Cary]

172. Here is my problem with you. . .

If you could muster a practical reality that would give a rational path to your agenda, I would be interested. There are only two practical realities that I see at the moment, and one of them (Republicans and "conservatives") is completely unacceptable to me. The other practical reality offers me hope of further progress.

What do you offer? If you have anything practical to offer I don't see it.

[bvar22]

195. Here is my problem with you:

Continued support for a political party that has drifted so far to The Right as to be unrecognizable as the "Party of FDR" is suicide for the Working Class.
You may call that "practical reality".
I call it Short Sightedness.