Obama has secured his place in history with this bill

[TwixVoy]

I have to admit until today I was bitter as I expected the dems to once again cave in to right wing nuts.

Although this is not perfect it will likely secure Obama's place in history among the ranks of Roosevelt and his New Deal.

I suspect that just like many at the time of the New Deal it won't be widely understood how the system has been saved until 10-30 years down the road when we look back at history.

Few presidents accomplish this level of national reform for the betterment of society.

The bitter question of "Where's the change?" of yesterday is no longer so devoid of answer tomorrow.

My only concern is that this nation of idiots isn't blind to this come the November election.

[malaise]

1. Pelosi also deserves a lot of credit here n/t

[Coexist]

2. yes. she does.

[HipChick]

+100

[CBR]

4. Yes. I absolutely agree! nt

[bluesmail]

30. Absolutely! EOM

[Oregone]

3. "secure Obama's place in history among the ranks of Roosevelt and his New Deal"

People really need to be a little more rational about this.

Like the bill, hate it, or think its the lesser of two evils, this is reaching.

[Dappleganger]

5. Can you at least TRY to contain your disdain for at least a day??

[Skittles]

8. it is indeed reaching

[Oregone]

9. Thats not quite relevant to my comment

A good deal of "pass the bill and fix it later" people can be found here, and they are in the lesser of two evil camps. Well, even those in favor of its passage, I would assume, think its silly to compare this to FDR & the New Deal.

Its just silly, and being silly doesn't help one's political cause.

[TwixVoy]

6. No, it really isn't

Had reform not occurred health care in the country would literally have completely collapsed. In just a few years time millions less would have been able to obtain health care, and hundreds of thousands more would have died for lack of it. It also would have likely crashed the economy and ushered in a 2nd great depression.

If anything this is even MORE revolutionary than the New Deal.... like the New Deal it offers complete reform, BUT also heads off the cluster fuck before it happens.

[Oregone]

12. "MORE revolutionary than the New Deal"

:rofl:


Oh come on now

[TwixVoy]

14. You lack foresight my friend

You clearly have NO idea what kind of train wreck this country was in for had this legislation not been passed.....

[Oregone]

18. I have an idea

And yes, this will avert such a disaster in the short term, but without addressing many of the fundemental issues with health insurance in America.

New Deal...come one now. Toot the horn but reel it in a bit.

[TwixVoy]

20. Future legislation will deal with those parasites

This was simply spraying the bug spray on the ground.... the next step is leading the for profit roaches to it.

[Oregone]

27. Right. Sure

This reform did everything it could to preserve them and not "disrupt" the structure unsensibly (per Obama)

[TwixVoy]

28. The roaches won't come if they know it's poison

In a few years time the for profit health care roaches will no longer be needed, and legislation making them completely obsolete will be easily passed.

[Oregone]

29. They aren't needed now

But everyone still has to pay a massive premium to have them involved.


To suggest this is a first step towards eliminating them and socializing the industry seems incoherent with the reform. Thats not the roadmap that would of produced this, IMO.


To each their own.

[TwixVoy]

31. Again you just can't see the big picture or look down the road

You will see. Wait until 2014 my friend.

[Oregone]

32. Im actually looking forward to the Bohner Revolution of 2032 when we take back the White House

And then implement Cuban Style Care. Itll be great. Super 5D chess.


But what we know today, the idealogical foundation of this bill seems to hinge on privatization and making capitalism works, rather than vanquishing it in that sector.

[girl gone mad]

54. It is pretty silly.

You might as well be comparing Bush to FDR for passing Medicare Part D.

[Cal Carpenter]

7. I agree

I think this really is just another convoluted mediocre piece of legislation.

All the propaganda and divide and conquer crap gets everyone all whipped into a frenzy but, at bottom, this doesn't make our system much different or better than it already is, not for the people who need help the most.

And on top of it, it solidifies the insurance companies more than anything else. It surely doesn't reduce their power.

I'm sort of amused but also terribly appalled at all the hyperbole around here. As far as D vs R goes, sure, its a 'win' fwiw.

There is a time for hyperbole, imo, and this ain't it. :shrug:

[ChicagoSuz219]

10. Not even close...

This is HUGE!

[babylonsister]

11. Then you're going to hate this...

The measure of a politician, however, is not how long he or she lasts in office, but what he or she accomplishes while there. The establishment of a system of universal health care is the sort of achievement that will last for decades. If it passes, Obama will go down in history along with Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson as the key architects of the American welfare state. Those members of Congress who back him will be a part of that history, and those who vote no will be left behind. If reform goes down in flames, members of the Democratic Chicken Caucus may or may not buy themselves another term in office. But to what end? Homeless shelters aren’t filled with former members of the House of Representatives. Anyone who loses this seat, whether over this bill or despite it, will still be fine. The millions of Americans who need health insurance won’t be unless the bill passes. Nobody campaigns for office saying they want to come to Washington to duck the hard issues. Now’s the time for members to live up to their word.

Matthew Yglesias: Playing The History Card
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-03-15/playing-the-history-card/full

[Oregone]

15. Yes, its hyperbole

So now the "welfare" state is characterized by outsourcing to the inefficient private industry?

Come on now. Its reaching.

Do you HONESTLY think this will improve people's social mobility and general human condition as much as FDRs New Deal reforms?

Come on now...be honest.

[TwixVoy]

16. It is setting the stage

for future reforms. Social Security, for example, had to be amended over 20 times after passage.

This is the seed of fixing a problem this nation has had for over 100 years.

[Oregone]

21. Setting what stage for what future?

Social security seems a lot like a socialized service from its idealogical origins to its implementation.

This highly contrasts that with inefficient private industry. Just what direction is the nation going in and on what stage is this progress set?

Most of the New Deal was about reigning in the destruction of capitalistic private industry and promoting the welfare of individuals through socialistic government run services in their favor. Is this in that vein?

[TwixVoy]

23. You lost me on your right wing style attack of social security

No wonder you can't see how this is similar to the New Deal.... you're one of the social security haters.

[Oregone]

24. Huh? I attacked social security?

"Social security seems a lot like a socialized service from its idealogical origins to its implementation."

I like socialism. Thats a complement.

[babylonsister]

19. I don't know what it will or won't do, or what it will even look like

in 10, 20 years. Hopefully a shell of this, with more improvements for everyone. But I also am very happy that I'm not as pessimistic as you are. I can live with this, and will encourage these folks to build on what we already have which, before today, was nothing, for decades.

So I'm a happy camper today.

[Oregone]

26. Fair enough

And I didn't reply to "piss on the parade", just encourage realism.

[LibDemAlways]

47. Comparing Obama and this corporate giveaway to Roosevelt's

domestic accomplishments is just plain ridiculous and laughable.

[goclark]

53. All the media that I have listened to in the last hour have

said it's not a reach at all -- they are comparing him to FDR as I type.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Doing this during an economic meltdown and two wars is what makes it so amazing

President Clinton couldn't do it under much better circumstances.

This was a huge deal.

Don

[Swamp Rat]

25. Excellent point

:applause:

[Contrary1]

17. Except maybe in Texas, where they'll vote to keep his name out of the history books.

:rofl:

[liberal_at_heart]

22. Isn't that what all politicians are after? Glory and legacy.

[LibDemAlways]

33. Between now and November Americans will hear the terms

"flawed bill," "mandate," and some variation of "ObamaCare" used in a very negative context many thousands of times by Republicans. One thing the R's are good at is staying on message and hammering it home. The party in power generally suffers losses in the midterms anyway. This year those losses will be magnified by negative public reaction to this bill. Perhaps Obama actually believes that this bill is going to win him favor among the American people. Perhaps he doesn't care one way or the other. The insurance company execs will certainly sleep well knowing they are in for many more $$ from indentured consumers. The only real losers will be the poor saps who won't be covered for at least three more years, and then will be forced to give their hard-earned dollars to a bunch of crooks with a horrible track record. Call it progress if you want. I'm not celebrating.

[TwixVoy]

34. If you bothered to do your research

you would be aware there is immediate funding to the tune of several billion dollars to help provide health care for those without until the exchanges activate in 2014.

[liberal_at_heart]

37. oh so when an uninsured person has an operation for $30,000

the government is going to send them a check for $30,000? I doubt it. Poor sap will probably do good to get a check for $200 from our government.

[TwixVoy]

40. In 2014 that person will

What you describe is the status quo. This bill fixes the exact issue you describe. Sorry it won't happen tomorrow, but at least we have a date now.

[liberal_at_heart]

42. yeah, okay. I'll believe it when I see it.

[LibDemAlways]

48. The social security "death benefit" payable to the deceased's

next of kin is currently a whopping $255. So I would imagine your figure is about right.

[LibDemAlways]

41. Show me where in the bill it guarantees immediate access to

affordable health care for the presently uninsured. I'm not talking about the temporary buy into a high risk pool for people with pre-existing conditions. I'm talking about affordable health care for the masses who cannot currently afford it.

[Political Heretic]

36. Yeah, what you are saying is not accurate, and that doesn't help opponents of this insurance gift.

People will be lumped into a catch-all group so that those who are not covered until 2014 still have insurance access.

Let's at least get the objections right, ok?

[LibDemAlways]

38. Isn't that group reserved for those with pre-existing conditions? I meant

people who simply can't afford the coverage now so they go without. In three years they'll be mandated to buy coverage without any guarantee that they'll be able to afford the premiums (even with some sort of subsidy), deductibles, and co-pays. This bill doesn't eliminate the very real problem of medical bankruptcies either. Really crappy excuse for "health care reform."

[Political Heretic]

35. I agree. He's secured his place in history alright.

[yodoobo]

39. One of the finest moments in our nations history

I am proud for Obama tonight.

[GreenArrow]

43. "the system has been saved"

And therein lies the problem.

[LibDemAlways]

44. Yep. Americans love their health insurance and will express their

"gratitude" at the ballot box this November to those who made sure the system is extended to all by mandate. As a poster here said a couple of days ago, "It makes me all tingly."

[leftstreet]

51. Obama really IS like FDR after all

:rofl:

[Toasterlad]

45. He Sure Has.

[Smashcut]

46. ROFL.

[tigereye]

49. it's about damn time - it's not perfect but it will create more protections

Impressive to see our Dems speaking and also to see the fear-mongering and socialism blather of the Reps.

[Xenotime]

50. This will be a wonderful time in America.

Change will be felt from sea to shining sea.

[LWolf]

52. Maybe, but it's certainly not a good place. nt