I am not celebrating the health bill yet

[murdoch]

We've been down this road before. With Bill Clinton, and with the bill from months ago.

I don't even know what is in this bill different than one that failed in the Senate months ago. Other than Obama passed some presidential decree or whatever and Stupak is now voting for the bill.

When Obama signs his name on the bill, then it's done for me. I'm tired of being jerked around.

Maybe they did this on purpose. Everyone is tired of being jerked around and so forth. Only the tea baggers spitting at congressional representatives and insulting the black or homosexual ones they see with epithets seem to be emotional about this. The bill is 5% of what I want it to be but 5% is better than nothing. Hopefully nothing too awful has been added to it since the time it was in the Senate. It's hard to imagine we have to fight this much to get so little. But at least a few more people will be getting health care now. The poor, mostly darker population of the country will be getting the shaft as usual - it's the American way.

P.S. Other people have told me that the Senate has nothing to do but I still won't believe it to be the truth until Obama signs it. I am tired of being jerked around.

P.P.S. *And* when the Republicans gain control of some branch of government in the future, and due to Democrat toadying to them they will, we will have to fight just to keep the crumbs given out in this bill.

[Bicoastal]

1. Chill, Obama's signing it on Tuesday.

[ixion]

2. It's a piece of crap. What's to celebrate?

[WeekendWarrior]

5. Please tell us all how that's so

You keep saying it over and over, but I've never really heard you say WHY it's a piece of crap.

Now, granted, it has a lot of crap in it that needs to be fixed, but without a bill to fix, we'd have absolutely nothing. Nothing.

And I guess that's what you want, right? The same insurance fiasco we've had for years?

I can't imagine that you want anything else because, let's face it, at this point in time, anything other than this bill is a fantasy.

[gateley]

8. No kidding. And over and over. nt

[ixion]

11. See post #10

[leftstreet]

9. We haven't had an 'insurance fiasco,' we've had a healthcare fiasco

The insurance fiasco is the fucking storm we're heading into

[WeekendWarrior]

12. Complete and utter bullshit

But please, do explain.

[leftstreet]

14. You first

:beer:

[WeekendWarrior]

19. You're the one complaining

about a storm. Tell us all about it.

[ixion]

10. Actually, I've stated my objection several times. In answer to your question, though...

My problem with it is simple:

It elevates insurance companies to the level of quasi federal entities with the power of the IRS to enforce, and mandates the purchase of a crappy pseudo product from a FOR PROFIT company as requisite terms for legal citizenship.

Despite whatever concessions may be in this piece of legislation, that mandate is a poison pill that no sugar coating will fix.

[WeekendWarrior]

16. Sorry

but while I don't love the mandate, I've been living under a mandate that requires me to have insurance since I was sixteen years old -- insurance from a for profit company under the threat of heavy fines if I don't comply. Do I love it? No. Is it the end of the world? Definitely not.

Putting aside the dream of single payer or a public option -- either of which I support -- what would you have rather done than pass this bill?

We had two choices -- continue with what we're currently living with or get some reforms for pre-existing conditions, etc., and have a great starting point for improvements in the future -- just as medicare has been improved over the years.

So are you saying you'd rather leave things as is?

Apparently you are.

[ixion]

21. The whole car insurance analogy doesn't hold water, sorry

and NO I'm not for leaving things as they are, but gentrifying a corrupt system was most definitely not a bright idea by any stretch.

[WeekendWarrior]

23. Why doesn't it hold water?

I keep hearing that, but nobody really explains why they say that.

Where I live, I can't work, I can't go to the store, I can't survive without a car. And public transportation costs as much as owning a car and is extremely unreliable. But if I want to drive a car, I have to get mandatory car insurance.

Tell me how this is any different.

[ixion]

24. You can choose not to have a car, as I did for more than a decade

that is the simple difference.

[WeekendWarrior]

26. No, I can't choose to not have a car

I need one to survive where I live. If you want to actually open your eyes and look at the world REALISTICALLY, most people need cars. So it's not really a choice.

I'm sorry, but your argument for shooting down our one and only chance at any kind of reform is pretty friggin' weak.

[ixion]

30. You have chosen where to live

so that's no excuse. And even so, you can still do it.

Sorry, no dice.

And there is NO reform in this bill. Your level of expectations of what constitutes reform is naive and laughable, at best.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. Could you expand on that?

HOW have you been mandated since you were 16 to buy private insurance under threat of heavy fines? I know of NO system that exists that would make that so.

Is it part of your employment? If so, what KIND of employement? Does that employement offer crap wages, to go along with the mandatory insurance (as will be the case for MILLIONS of people). What are your deductibles and co-pays like? Do you have low premiums, so you have to live with outrageous out-of-pocket expenses, which in reality keep you from ever seeing a doctor?

What makes it work for YOU?

Please, share your insight, or I'll call it BULLSHIT.

[WeekendWarrior]

25. If I want to survive

I need a car. I need it to work, I need it to get to the store and buy food, I need it to take my kids to the doctor. Without a car I have to rely on public transportation, which costs about the same as owning a car. So there's not really any choice involved.

Insurance is mandatory in my state.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. CAR INSURANCE???

Oh, nevermind......

:eyes:

[WeekendWarrior]

28. Thanks for the expansion on your -- well, on nothing. nt.

[tkmorris]

29. Bad analogy. Your auto insurance is to protect OTHER people

And you can, and many people do, opt out of having it.

[gateley]

18. No, I wasn't asking why you feel this is a bad bill (I think most of us agree

with you in varying degrees). I'm honestly at a loss as to what you hope to accomplish, what you hope to get from us, by posting your feelings in threads that are in a celebratory vein. Do you want us to agree with you? And if so, what good would that do? If it makes you feel better to do it, then by all means knock yourself out. I don't really need to understand your motivation, I just need to stop reading your posts on this subject.

[leftstreet]

3. 'It's hard to imagine we have to fight this much to get so little'

Yep

[Skittles]

4. and groveling for votes for this

what a fucking circus

[leftstreet]

7. and groveling when you have the majority

:rofl:

[Skittles]

15. gawd, leftstreet

trying to depress me more? I WILL KICK YOUR ASS.

[leftstreet]

17. hehe

Here, have a beer

:toast:

[Cleita]

6. Fighting over bones.

The aristocracy threw us a few after they made us sit, shake hands and roll over. Now we will shut up while they keep figuring out ways to funnel all the assets in the world economy their way.

[Kalun D]

13. And you never will either

cuz this isn't a health bill

this is another corporate giveaway

like the $700 Billion crooked banker giveaway

the multi billion defense appropriations for the crooked defense contractors

now it's the "health" insurance companies turn

just in time for $Billions in bonuses.

[laughingliberal]

20. The Senate does have something to do. They have to pass the reconciliation bill

They have given the House assurances they will. If they don't we're stuck with that awful Senate bill without the few mitigating fixes in the reconciliation bill.