Mandate + No Cost Control = Monkey Wrench in the works?

[shotten99]

Just brainstorming why a mandate could be a good thing:

How can they justify forcing anyone to buy health insurance which they wouldn't be able to afford
or which wouldn't cover ailment "X" in question?

I doubt any judge of any school of thought would tolerate that a scenario of cancer patient X
facing a mandate to buy insurance which wouldn't cover and/or would bankrupt the patient.

My first thought is that this would wreck the insurance industry leading to the only sensible
replacement in a single payer system. I'm not an expert, however.

[ixion]

1. = FUBAR

As usual.

[Warpy]

2. That's what will force Congress to loosen Medicare eligibility

if not now, then later when we're in crisis again.

That depends on us, though, and our ability to keep Republicans out.

[frazzled]

3. You're right about one thing ...

You're not an expert. You're not even close.

In fact, your example of a cancer patient being forced to buy insurance doesn't even make it into the semi-rational category. I suppose you support the cancer patient who has no health insurance. Go figure.

Epic fail.

[shotten99]

4. WTF?

Bullshit. What do you think is going to happen when someone's policy comes due and there are no cost controls in place?

[frazzled]

5. There are cost controls

They can't charge you more because you have (or have had) cancer under this bill. End of story.

[Missy Vixen]

6. They can charge you more on the basis of age

THIS is where the insurance companies will continue making their money, seeing as how the whole reason for the urgency of health care "reform" is the fact that millions of Baby Boomers will age off of health insurance and onto Medicare over the next 20 years, and there is insufficient population numbers to keep the profit rolling in.

You might want to read up a bit on what's in the bill. I'm sure you'll find it illuminating.

[frazzled]

7. Far less than the current age penalty

Currently, insurance companies are charging 55-65 year olds 7x the premium of a younger person. This law caps that number at 3x.

Game over.

[Missy Vixen]

8. "Game over", huh?

Do you have any idea how much that is per month? Oh, wait. That's secondary to the win.

The last quote: $1400 per month.

We can't afford it.

For millions of Americans, this is the true "game over".

[frazzled]

9. You'll get a subsidy if you can't afford it

You'll still be better off than you would be with NO health care reform. Not only will the premium be less, but you will be able to get government assistance to pay for it.

Look, you seem to be hidebound and determined to find a fault with this law (not bill, LAW). While I know it's not perfect, your arguments against it don't hold up against the status quo. It's a step forward, and your "facts" aren't working to prove it isn't.

[Missy Vixen]

10. We'll see about the "subsidy"

Those of you who seem to believe this is nothing short of the Second Coming fail to take into consideration that insurance PREMIUMS do not equal CARE. We will have deductibles, co-pays and prescription drug costs on top of our premium payments. I might also add that $1400 per month (the cost to enroll in Washington State's high risk pool,) equals our mortgage payment.

We did not enroll in COBRA because $900 per month was more than we have. If you think the average American has $900 in their pockets each month for health insurance, you need to take a hard look at the cost of living and wages.

>You'll still be better off than you would be with NO health care reform.<

This remains to be seen.

>Look, you seem to be hidebound and determined to find a fault with this law (not bill, LAW).<

You seem to be determined to pull things out of mid-air to support your argument.

>It's a step forward, and your "facts" aren't working to prove it isn't.<

My "facts" are our real-life experiences. Evidently, you seem to believe they don't exist. They exist for us and fifty million other uninsured people around the country, especially those between 40 and 65 with pre-existing conditions. It's a hell of a thing to wake up each morning and pray neither of us gets sick or injured.

[Missy Vixen]

11. Keep hanging your hat on "subsidy".

We're over 40. We both have pre-existing conditions. The last figures we got from the Washington State high-risk pool: $1400 per month. It's a second mortgage payment. It would work well, if we wanted to live in our car. I might also add that we do not qualify for COBRA anymore; that was only, oh, $900 per month. Of course, that brings up the topic those who are deliriously happy over last night's proceedings do not want to discuss: Insurance premiums do not equal the cost of care.

>Look, you seem to be hidebound and determined to find a fault with this law (not bill, LAW).<

I live in reality. Daily. You don't. The refusal to cap premiums, throwing us a bone re: eliminating "pre-existing conditions" but charging more for age, etcetera -- those over 40 are going to discover we're not getting much at all in the way of subsidies or coverage.

>While I know it's not perfect, your arguments against it don't hold up against the status quo.<

My arguments are based in fact in our situation, and the situation all face who are over 40, have pre-existing conditions, and do not currently qualify for Medicare.

>It's a step forward, and your "facts" aren't working to prove it isn't.<

It's a step forward for those who haven't checked out exactly what is and is not offered.