Chomsky: Health Bill Sustains The System’s Core Ills

[Hissyspit]

http://rawstory.com/2010/03/noam-chomsky-health-bill/

Chomsky: Health bill sustains the system’s core ills

Monday, March 22nd, 2010 -- 10:17 am

Despite its flaws, I'd have 'held my nose' to pass reform, renowned intellectual tells Raw Story

He’s a hero of many progressives, but his enthusiasm for the passage of health care reform legislation this weekend was fairly muted.

In an interview with Raw Story, world-renowned scholar and political critic Noam Chomsky reluctantly called the bill a mildly positive step, but cautioned that it wouldn’t fix the fundamental problems with the nation's troubled system.

"The United States’ health care system is so dysfunctional it has about twice the health care costs of comparable countries and some of the worst outcomes," Chomsky told Raw Story. "This bill continues with that."

The decades-long critic of corporate power alleged that premiums won't stop rising as the package is designed in no small part to funnel money into the pockets of the health care industry. "The bill gives away a lot to insurance companies and big pharmaceutical corporations," he said.

MORE

[cali]

1. I may be the only person on DU who simply doesn't care what Chomsky thinks

[Rowdyboy]

2. Trust me, you are not alone....

[Mudoria]

79. Definitely not the only one

[Arctic Dave]

5. A lot of of people do. So your lone voice is just that.

[Lerkfish]

12. Even someone you don't like can be right about something.

In this case, he's correct that the core problems of health care affordability are not addressed adequately nor cured.

[cali]

13. I don't dislike him. I just don't find him compelling.

[Lerkfish]

16. but compelling or not, do you think he is incorrect?

which was my main point.

[cali]

22. nah, I tink he's right here. I just don't count him as a voice I put any weight

on re this topic

[nashville_brook]

17. i don't find Newton's Principia compelling

but damn if it doesn't hold the end of my couch up.

[sabrina 1]

46. Lol! ~ n/t

[eridani]

60. DUzy!!

:toast: :beer:

[Political Heretic]

64. fuckin' brilliant.

LOL

[leftynyc]

14. Same here

He's one of the perpetually cranky.

[EFerrari]

29. All that thinking and studying and activism must really get to him.

lol

[Moochy]

54. ROFL

:rofl:

[L0oniX]

57. LOL

[readmoreoften]

73. All those massacred pregnant women with their blood in the streets, slaughter in East Timor,

Blackwater torturing teens in Afghanistan, investigating all that for a living... yeah, I'd be cranky too.

[EFerrari]

77. Speaking of the massacres in East Timor, looks like the same forces

will enjoy American funding again. Blair must be proud!

EXCLUSIVE…Journalist Allan Nairn Facing Possible Arrest in Indonesia for Exposing US-Backed Forces Assassinated Civilians

In Indonesia, investigative journalist Allan Nairn is facing possible arrest for exposing that US-backed Indonesian armed forces assassinated a series of civilian activists last year. Since Allan Nairn broke the news of the assassination program on Democracy Now! on Friday, the Indonesian press has been buzzing with the allegations. A military spokesman told the Jakarta Globe that the military is considering legal action against Nairn. Earlier today, Nairn issued a public challenge to the Indonesian military to arrest him so that he could face off with the military in open court.


http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/24/exclusivejournalist_allan_nairn_facing_possible_arrest

[ljm2002]

26. "dog, I hate stupid" n/t

[kenny blankenship]

32. I know, I laughed too.

[cali]

37. so if one doesn't admire Chomsky, one can't be intelligent?

I don't know enough about the field of linguistics to comment on his work, but I don't find his social or political commentary particularly insightful. And his prose is turgid.

[ljm2002]

38. Fair enough, I was being snarky...

...it was irresistible, that's all.

Chomsky's PhD thesis and subsequent work revolutionized the fields of linguistics and computational linguistics. Not voice recognition, but sentence structure and parsing -- the so-called "deep structure" of language syntax. I don't keep up with it these days so cannot say whether his findings have been superseded, but it wouldn't matter, he has had a huge influence.

Anyway the reason I replied is this: if you don't care about his opinions one way or another, why make it an issue? Obviously lots of other people find his analyses useful. This thread has Chomsky's critique of the bill / now law, and the first reply is you, saying how much you don't care what he thinks. If it's just a style thing then I don't think you would have bothered to interject. Your post implied disapproval, i.e. "Who cares what he says anyway".

He is wordy, that is true. And he does have that dry, analytical approach peculiar to academics. I can see he might be irritating. But he is a very well respected voice on the left, he is very knowledgeable, and his analyses are often correct and always well reasoned. Avoid him if he annoys you, certainly. You can't like everyone. Not sure why you were resorting to potshots, that's all, and reacted in kind.

[Political Heretic]

63. What does this statement mean:

"but I don't find his social or political commentary particularly insightful"

Can you elaborate on that? What areas do you find lacking, or take issue with? What have you read of his published works?

Is this more of a general disagreement with the conclusions of leftists, or something specific about Chomsky.

And just for pure curiosity if you were asked to recommend someone to replace Chomsky or instead of Chomsky for consideration, who would you recommend and why?

PS - no absolutely not, it is not the case that one's intellect is determined by one's admiration of anyone else. Just making that clear, even though I wasn't the one you were responding to.

[ShamelessHussy]

41. and you'd be the only one revealing their brand of ignorance

since only caring about what folks think who agree with you, is not the path a wise person walks.

reminds me of one of my favorite quotes...

Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself...

[sabrina 1]

44. Don't worry, you're not. So many liberal thinkers

have been tossed under the infamous bus on DU as soon as they dare to speak the truth and don't blindly support a bill has more Republican ideas in it and fewer Democratic ideas, than any bill Republicans might have passed, that on this progressive blog, it would be a surprise to see support for a real liberal Democrat.

It's been interesting watching who is 'in' and who 'out' over the past few weeks. All depending on whether you're cheering for the team, or not. 'You're either with us or against us'.

I'm sure Chomsky would appreciate your rush to denigrate him as fast as you could. He would thank you for demonstrating much of what he has said about the two party system.

[Political Heretic]

62. Why not? Might be a more interesting question.

He says, like many - even you I think - that he would have voted for it, in the "its not perfect but its better than nothing" spirit.

So it can't just be because he doesn't agree with you.

And given his level of insight, it be interesting to know why you don't value his analysis. Even more interesting, who's analysis do you value?

[omega minimo]

72. He doesn't care what you think either

[wtmusic]

3. It's a minor miracle this bill made it through Congress

but it's a start.

[Echo In Light]

4. "This bill continues with that."

[WCGreen]

6. You know life would be a little bit less dour for you Norm if you

could for once look at the bright side...

Just once...

Come on, we know you can smile.

Someone saw you smile back in 1956.

[Echo In Light]

9. It's Noam, not Norm, incidentally

[WCGreen]

11. I know that...

Just woke up and Cheers was on...

[readmoreoften]

74. Gosh, reporting about US torture and genocide really has made him a Mr. Sourpuss, huh??!!

You'd think he'd do something productive, like hang out on the intertubes and tell people to cheer up.

[EFerrari]

24. Noam Chomsky has great sense of humor. Try watching any of his lectures.

Or his interview with Howard Zinn by Amy.

:)

[WCGreen]

7. You know life would be a little bit less dour for you Norm if you

could for once look at the bright side...

Just once...

Come on, we know you can smile.

Someone saw you smile back in 1956.

[Hissyspit]

18. He's a scholar, an academic, and a theorist. It's his job.

He's not a talk show host.

[WCGreen]

19. If I'm not mistaken, Chomsky is a linguist...

I don't know, this was the most far reaching addressing of a perceived problem that has been taken on in my adult life and I am little bit happy about it...

I can at least wait until tomorrow to start pointing out all the problems that are left unsolved.

That is all I am pointing out...

[Hissyspit]

28. Understood.

Yes, he is a linquist.

He did say this - Noam Chomsky: As flawed as health care bill is, I'd hold my nose and vote for it because it's superior to status quo. http://is.gd/aT7Ci

[WCGreen]

33. That's good...

I've always admired Mr.Chomsky. Larry King use to have him on his late night talk show fairly regularly. That's when i learned about him, delivering the NYT at night driving around in my car back in the 80's...

[readmoreoften]

75. Um. Yeah. A linguist is a type of scholar, academic, and theorist.

By the way.

[WCGreen]

8. Sorry about that Chief....

.Would you believe an Albanian made me do it....

[wtmusic]

10. That mouse of yours might need a little WD40, WC. nt

[Lionel Mandrake]

15. Chomsky is right, as usual. ... nt

[Lyric]

20. God, that Chomsky.

Such a Freeper.

:eyes:

[Echo In Light]

34. lol

[L0oniX]

58. ROLF

[Xithras]

21. Watch out Chomsky, I hear the bus coming...

n/t

[Lorien]

23. It must be a MASSIVE bus, there are millions under it now. nt

[L0oniX]

52. Centrist and DLC bus drivers?

They really need to stop giving out those bus driver licenses in Cracker Jack boxes.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Chomsky: Pro mandates!

Hm... guess that title wouldn't get quite the same reaction. :P

"The mandate to purchase insurance has been a central qualm of progressives and conservatives opposed to the effort. Chomsky, while admitting it’s a boon to insurance companies, called it a "step toward universality," asserting that "without some kind of mandatory coverage, nothing is going to work at all.""

[Flaneur]

27. I agree with Chomsky. The bill sucks, but seeing it defeated would be worse.

On the one hand, I want universal health care, and this doesn't get close to that.

On the other hand, I didn't want to see the Party of No emerge victorious, with Obama and the Dems weakened.

[abq e streeter]

30. exactly my sentiments

[EFerrari]

31. Hey, Hissyspit. Have you seen this interview Amy did with Howard and Noam?

It's gorgeous. As an opening, Amy asks them if they were going to run in the Boston marathon that day. lol

Of the four friends, Noam is the only one left now. But, at least we have a lot of video. :hi:



http://www.democracynow.org/2007/4/16/in_rare_joint_interview_noam_chomsky

[leftstreet]

47. Hey, thanks for posting that!

Missed it.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

48. My pleasure!

:hi:

[ShamelessHussy]

50. mega dittos

;)

bookmarked :toast:

[L0oniX]

51. I don't expect any DLC ass kissers and centrist buss drivers to like him...

and that makes it even more of a good reason to listen to him and at least contemplate what he has to say. Any friend of Howard Zinn is worth taking a listen to as well imo ...and I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of what I have to say about Noam or Zinn either!

[EFerrari]

55. Their families used to vacation together. Oh, boy, to be a fly on that picnic table.

:)

[Echo In Light]

35. .

[Odin2005]

36. I see the fanboys are throwing Noam under the bus.

[awoke_in_2003]

53. I suspected...

that was the "bump" i heard. Not many here could hold a candle to Chomsky's creds.

[Unvanguard]

39. ...but he would have voted "yes." And that's the important thing. n/t

[malaise]

40. I love Chomsky

but I'm glad the bill passed.

[MisterP]

42. "Despite its flaws, I'd have 'held my nose' to pass [any charade at] reform"

THAT's America's problem, not Stacks flying into IRS buildings or Palinoids and Teabaggers chanting "lynch him." we're okay with labeling a damaging bill progressive if it has a few bones--or even just loophole-packed "regulations"--because we can't tell left from right: we're politically colorblind, but insist that we're Rembrandt.

[branders seine]

43. now instiitutionalized in perpetuity?

a greed-driven corporation bagman, skimming money off the top of every transaction between you and any health care provider. Forever and ever, Amen. Hallemafuckinlujah.

[upi402]

45. k/r n/t

[Roland99]

49. Any chance of getting mandates removed and premium price controls in place?

I'm thinking not.

[Moochy]

56. Are you a canadian prime minister?

If so then right after we reform NAFTA.

Otherwise... Real Soon Now ™

[Roland99]

59. When will then be now?

Soon.

[Political Heretic]

61. This statement is the most important of all:

"There should be headlines explaining why, for decades, what's been called politically impossible is what most of the public has wanted," Chomsky said. "There should be headlines explaining what that means about the political system and the media."

[EFerrari]

65. Oh, that cranky Chomsky with his observations and stuff.

LOL

Boom, there it is. :)

[Swamp Rat]

67. I second that Boom

:hi::hug:

[EFerrari]

68. Hola, hermanito.

:hi:

[readmoreoften]

76. +1

[laughingliberal]

66. "The United States' health care system is so dysfunctional..."This bill

continues that"

I think that about sums it up.

[upi402]

69. Beck has a huge audience and Chomsky has a spotty few

Sometimes I think America deserves to fall like this.
Anyhow, I feel the same as Chomsky and Moore, so I'm in good company but without a lifeboat.

[Solly Mack]

70. I so enjoy reading Chomsky.

[omega minimo]

71. .

[depakid]

78. Pretty hard to disagree with most of what he has to say

At the end of the day, Democrats had to have something politically to wave around- whether it addresses the root causes of the problems or not- otherwise the whole deal would have been a thorough disaster come next fall.

Democrats blew another golden opportunity to distinguish themselves from the some of the most "popular" elements of the corporate right and retake their former position as the party that does the peoples' work -but given the conflict aversion in the administration and the corruption among members of the Senate, cutting their losses and running wasn't worst outcome.

Perhaps in flirting with that worst outcome, the administration and congressional leadership will learn something for the next round of reforms.