Every paycheck I pay Federal tax which mostly goes to Private Corporations.

[Winterblues]

When our highways are repaired or built, it is done by Private Contracters, and the list goes on and on. I am Mandated to pay taxes that go directly to Private Corporations.. How is that different from being Mandated to pay for Private Insurance?

[ixion]

1. and that's okay because...

:shrug:

[Winterblues]

6. Because a healthy country/society is a good thing

Whether it is infrastructure, education, or citizen's health. It all adds up to a healthy society. The entire purpose of government (the people) is to maintain the Health and Welfare of the Nation...

[ixion]

7. That is the purpose, on paper, but in practice

that is most certainly NOT their motivation.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. But if you don't like the way the government is spending the money

You can "vote the bums out" come election time. Unless you are a major stockholder, you have no vote against the CEO of Humana.

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. You're right. The money should come from the taxes we already pay

We don't need another tax when one will do the trick. Single payer is the best option, as you pointed out so clearly.

[Donnachaidh]

4. still trying to put lipstick on that pig of a mandate, huh?

good luck with that :rofl:

[Fumesucker]

5. You write a check to XYZ Corporation when the government tells you to?

I did not know that.

/Johnny Carson

[Winterblues]

8. That is more Direct Democracy instead of Representative Democracy but it will have to do for now.

In a Representative Democracy we give our Representatives the right to make decisions for us and direct our money toward whatever cause/project they deem fit. In this case we pay directly, or choose not to and forfeit money through increased taxation. Either way you would be Mandated to pay. Whether by the Direct route or through payroll taxation. You will still pay. That is the price for a healthy society..

[Fumesucker]

11. You don't appear to understand the concept of direct democracy..

It doesn't have anything to do with writing personal checks to corporations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy

Direct democracy, classically termed pure democracy,<1> is a form of democracy and a theory of civics in which sovereignty is lodged in the assembly of all citizens who choose to participate. Depending on the particular system, this assembly might pass executive motions, make laws, elect or dismiss officials, and conduct trials. Direct democracy stands in contrast to representative democracy, where sovereignty is exercised by a subset of the people, usually on the basis of election. Deliberative democracy incorporates elements of both direct democracy and representative democracy.

[Hello_Kitty]

13. Not even close.

Direct or representative democracy has to do with how laws are made. And whichever type of system you have, no one forces you to vote.

[Lorien]

9. Those contractors send bids to the government. The best bid wins the contract

If the bid to fix a highway included $37 million for the contractor while labor and materials only cost 1.7 million I doubt that they would get the contract. That's what they are now demanding of the people; we aren't paying for health CARE; we're paying ten times as much for health INSURANCE. We pay for the profits of a middle man.

Let me make this more simple to understand:

I am self employed, so I buy my own insurance

Over the past 12 years or so I have paid my insurance over $78,000.00 in premiums. I have also paid tens of thousands out in deductible costs, since my deductible is 12k.

Over the past 12 years I have submitted roughly $45,000 worth of claims. The insurance has paid out $200.00 of the claims submitted. The rest either went to the deductible or was denied.

So, for the price of a decent home I have received exactly $200.00 worth of services in 12 years. Does that sound like it's on par with other contracted services out there? In the UK or Canada they pay for health CARE, not the profiteering of a middle man.

[Myrina]

12. "the best bid wins" aaahahahahahahaaa ...

... file that under 'Millions upon Millions missing in Iraq/Halliburton'.

[Lorien]

14. That's the best you've got? You can't reply to the substance of the post?

Typical.

[Myrina]

16. I just did. Look at the examples of 'low bid federal contracts'.

Get back to me when you have some facts.

Typical. Tool.

[Luminous Animal]

10. Oversight and competitive bidding.

Of course, it doesn't always work (the defense department is one giant black hole of tax payer dollars) but I've filled out enough GSA RFPs to know that it works in many cases.

[BattyDem]

15. True, but the highways are a "single payer" system

Their creation and repair is funded through our taxes, but the amount we pay is based on our income. I have no problem with the government hiring an outside contractor to do the job because they will (hopefully) get the best deal and ALL of us will benefit from the outcome. EVERYONE has equal access to the highway system, no matter how much they paid in taxes. It doesn't matter if you drive a $100,000 sports car or a $1000 piece of crap - you can use the highway, just like everyone else.

An individual mandate to buy private insurance is a bit different. Everyone will be expected to pay the same prices, but the coverage you end up with will be based on how much you can afford. Yes, there will be subsidies, but does anyone believe the government will subsidize a "gold" plan? Even with insurance, getting actual care will depend on your ability to pay the deductibles and co-pays. As usual, those with the best plans will have access to a large pool of providers and care, while those with lesser coverage get a much smaller choice. What we end up with is tax-payer money going directly to corporations (who have no competition in the marketplace and can "fix" prices because they are not bound by anti-trust laws) to pay for a multi-tiered system where some will have great access and care, while others won't. :-(


Mandates wouldn't be a problem if there were cost controls, competition, independent oversight and equal access for all. HCR doesn't do that. Yes, there are some good things in the bill that will help a lot of people. I'm glad it passed, but I want something better. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't the end of the fight, it's just the beginning.