I had a VERY interesting talk yesterday about the HCR bill --

[Hell Hath No Fury]

with the my new tenant upstairs.

She is a lifelong Dem, very politically active and aware. In fact she is going to Sacramento today to protest the cuts to the budget and to support our teachers.

So we were talking about the healthcare bill -- she mentioned that she has forwarded a MoveOn action email to me. She said she supports the bill vigorously and her (equally liberal) sister was against it -- she thought her sister was nuts.

I thought for a second and then leapt in by telling I her I had serious reservations about the bill, and mentioned a few of the things that I felt were problems with the bill.

This politically aware member of MoveOn did not know that the bill was not universal coverage and left out tens of millions of Americans, she did not know the ban on refusing policies to adults with preexisting conditions does not go into effect until 2014 nor the details of the high risk pool that was the interim solution, she did not know that the subsidies did nothing to help cover the cost of the actual health care people were now going to be getting.

She was utterly surprised by what I told her, and was not a happy camper with the news. I told her I would sent her an email with a few links to some good sites that evaluted the bill, and left the conversation at that.

I was a little shocked by this, and it made me realize there are going to be a whole lotta other Lylas out there, surprised at what this bill does and does NOT do.

And it is going to be quite the rude awakening. :(

[lunatica]

1. So, understanding the way our government works

I ask in all sincerity, do you wish the bill had not passed? Do you really think that one step forward is bad? Forget that we could have had the perfect bill because that was never going to happen. Not with the health insurance industry pouring millions, if not billions into congressional pockets and anti health care reform advertising and the teabaggers being mobilized by hate and fearmongers into screaming disrupters in every way possible. Do you remember last summer during the Town Hall meetings in Democratic enclaves? And let's not forget the absolute wall of concerted effort on the part of the Republicans to obstruct every single thing the Democrats tried to do and their stated objective of breaking Obama.

Do you think the perfect health care bill was going to have a snow ball's chance in Hell of every passing?

As a Progressive who's been disappointed many many times I can tell you that one step forward is a victory.

[Javaman]

2. Not being able to speak for the OP...

But I think the point the OP was making was not about supporting the bill or not, but about people who choose to be woefully ill informed about important topics.

Although, I'm not delighted with the bill, I'm still glad it passed. I just hope now that it doesn't get forgotten and that the changes that need to be made don't get lost in the shuffle of "moving forward".

Many people support bills due to popular support without actually reading the bills themselves. This is what I like to call window shopping democracy.

Part of being a progressive is knowing not just the bills but the contents as well.

Following the popular voice is no better than the moronic tea baggers who spout off talking points.

A well informed democrat will always beat a repuke. Talking points and carrying signs will only get you so far, unless of course, screaming matches are your game.

[Fumesucker]

4. I've been following this debate pretty damn closely on DU..

And I still am reading totally conflicting accounts of what the bill will and won't do, the amount of conflicting information has been overwhelming and still don't know who or what to believe. I've tried reading the actual bill and all I got for that was a headache and a feeling of intense frustration.

Not to mention that there seem to have been changes in the bill right up to the last minute.

[lunatica]

9. The majority of Americans are 'window shopping Dems or Reps'

Most people aren't interested in politics except to throw the baby out with the bathwater rhetoric or they think nothing the government does affects them. The politicians know this which is why progress is incremental at best. Add that to the corruption which has been laid bare in the last few years and it's not hard to understand how it was possible for Bush to take the country backwards in such giant strides.

Yesterday was a victory for Democrats. Not perfect by any standards, but it was a move in the right direction. When was the last time that happened?

We will have to fight for every move in the right direction. It's always been so.

[Javaman]

12. I called yesterday: the imperfect victory

this wasn't a matter of the perfect being the enemy of the good, this was the good being the enemy of the okay.

yeah, we won a major political fight yesterday, but at the cost of watering down a bill to it's bear essence of what we actually need.

That said, I will do what I can to make sure the health care conversation hasn't ended in a push to "move forward".

I will give my support to the bill, but my main mission still hasn't changed. And that is to give all Americans health care via a public option.

The door has been opened. That's a big thing.

And as a result, if the passage of this bill allows more progressives to be elected in November, great!

My task, becomes that much easier.

If not, then myself and the people who wish to make sure everyone gets health care via a public option, goes on.

[lunatica]

14. The fight for progress goes on as it always has

Even if we had won exactly what we wanted the Republicans would fight it again and again. Just like they're fighting to keep gays from having the most basic human civil rights. Just like they're fighting to make abortions illegal or to dismantle the New Deal. This small victory hasn't stopped any of that.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. Exactly my point.

It appeared this woman had only listened to what the WH talking points were on the bill, trusted them, and done little to delve further into details (the devil is always the details) of the bill.

One thing DU has taught me over the years is there is always more to find out about any issue than the official story.

We always need to dig deep for the Truth.

And we will have years of hard work and diligence to stay on top of this Health Care Beast.

[amborin]

20. the WH talking points....

it's scary that so many people still fall for them

i mean, after campaign promise after campaign promise was willfully abandoned, how could anyone....


the sad thing is: so many people are working hard, have little time, listen to the cable news, etc....and don't have time or energy to get the facts

[Hell Hath No Fury]

23. I used to be that person --

True blue Dem who bought everything that came out of a Dem WH and a Dem candidate's mouth.

And then Bill Clinton happened to me.

And then I found DU.

My eyes are opened and there is no going back for me. And that's a good thing.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

8. I am only noting --

that many people who support the bill may be supporting a bill they actually know little about.

As for that one step forward, if the step is in the wrong direction it can be a big problem.

And I think this bill is going to create a big problem in the near to long run.

[optimator]

3. amazing how many think this is free universal socialized health care

everyone is in for a surprise when they find out it is mandated corporate tyranny.

[Robb]

5. LOL

[prolesunited]

7. Yes, that's exactlly what it is

So what happens when the world doesn't come to an end

[no limit]

6. Dont worry about it, the democrats were smart enough to put this off till 2014

so it wont affect them in 2012. Obviously for most here that's all that matters.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. Yes, that is a deeply cynical move on their part --

and it kind of disgusts me. :puke: They are playing with peoples LIVES for fucks sake.

[Donnachaidh]

13. lots of those Lylas right here

:shrug:

[laughingliberal]

17. Anyone here who has not seen the flaws in the bill yet are those who prefer not to see

Wonder how much help they'll be when we try to get the bill amended?

[Donnachaidh]

18. not much at all, I'd wager

Of course, if they get caught in any one of the traps (financial loopholes, pre-existing loopholes, etc) you'll hear great gnashing of teeth and wailing.

But until then it will be all Tiger Beat and *We won, you suck*....

[progressoid]

21. I was thinking the very same thing.

Ya beat me to it.

[helderheid]

15. In my experience, the members of MoveOn really should be members of PDA

http://pdamerica.org

[Hell Hath No Fury]

19. Many of us are. :)

PDA is a great group.

[laughingliberal]

16. It illustrates exactly the flaw in the poll showing only 3% of liberals oppose the bill

People have been out living their lives and listening to talking points and have little idea of the problems with the bill. I'm guessing most liberals would be very worried about it if they knew the details. All they've heard is there are millions more who will be 'covered' and the insurance companies can not deny people for preexisting conditions and your insurance can't be canceled if you get sick. I wonder how many know the level of 'coverage' most people will be getting from their 'bronze' plans.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

22. Like I said --

it is going to be a seriously rude awakening for a lot of people. :(

The first person who can't afford real care while "insured" --

The first person who can't afford the premiums even with a subsidy --

The first person with a preexisting condition who tries to get insurance in 2013 --

The first person who files bankruptcy due to medical bills while under the new law --

The first person whose non-subsidized private insurance premium goes up more than they can afford --

There's gonna be a whole lot of ugly out there. :(

[kenny blankenship]

24. Spreading THOUGHTCRIME

you know what they'll do to you, right?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. I'm ready for'em! :D

I have an undergroud lair all ready to go, filled with fantastic furniture and a really cool juke box.

[Name removed]

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