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Anyone seen the Baader-Meinhoff Complex?

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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 01:56 PM
Original message
Anyone seen the Baader-Meinhoff Complex?
It is a German movie about the formation of the RAF in West Germany now better known as the Baader-Meinhoff brigade.

They were a brutal guerrilla and terrorist group but this film shows that they were basically pushed into violence by the German govt. and police.

The first big scene of the movie shows the Shah of Iran visiting Germany and being protested peacefully by German human rights activists.

In front of the activists stood pro-Shah Iranians dressed in imperial black suits carrying big pieces of timber with their backs to the German activists and on the other side of the street were the German police. All of the sudden the Iranians turned around and ran back to the activists and began beating them with the timber.

When the activists began defending themselves the German police came over and started beating them too.

That was just the beginning of the brutality.

Also the German govt. was still full of fascists and Nazis left over from the war as well as the business class so I can see this environment contributing the group's founding.

This film is great and very interesting. I'm not sure you'll see anything like it made here.

It really touches on subjects that Hollywood wouldn't delve into too deeply. Hollywood does movies that are political but nothing like this that criticizes the political system as smoke and mirrors.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry, those spoiled brats tried to kill me
I have seen the fictional movie you refer. The Shah was a pig though. Savak was in that crowd.
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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm not singing their praises but I can see why...
This group was formed and became so radicalized.

What's your story with them?
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Bombing of V Corps HQ @ the IG Farben Building Frankfurt am Main FRG
We smoked where the bomb went off. One GI killed. Hell the Frankfurt Ski Club met there. Another thing of weird happenstance; On 29 December 19 1975 I was flying back to the States for the first time in years. I was going to LEX via Pittsburgh with a layover at LaGuardia. I ran into a friend of mine from my small home town (weird) early in the morning. We went into the bar by the TWA terminal. We had a drink and talked about how odd it was to run in to each other in New York. It got odder, We both left and caught different flights. Back in KY I was surprised to find terrorist had set off a bomb in a locker at that part of the TWA Terminal. No one, to my knowledge, has ever been charged in this terrorist act which killed 11 people and wounded 74. I have always felt this was a RAF hit. It had their MO. I would be again be surprised if very many people even knew of this since it is never talked about by the MSM. Those people, RAF. were murderers, of the worst sort and should never be romanticized. Would be nice if shit like this never happened but it did. Later, RFL
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Operation Gladio false flag bombings blamed on B-M
Don't know your situation. I was in Italy when several of the bombings that were blamed on Red Brigade and B-M groups. Over the last few years, Italian courts now reveal that the RW quasi-governmental groups (e.g. Operation Gladio) had actually done the bombings and blamed them on these far left groups.

I was just lucky not to have been in the wrong train station at the wrong time. The closest I have come was hearing two bombs, one a controlled demolition in the UK.

Have not seen this movie. Will keep an eye out for it.

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Just bear in mind that the existence of false flags doesn't mean all flags are false
It is true that false flag operations can and do occur in almost any long-running conflict, and are just as much a form of terrorism as the genuine examples. But to believe that they are always the most likely explanation (as some people do - not that you are saying this at all - is just as stupid as to believe they are impossible.

I have been right on the scene of a terrorist explosion - the only reason I didn't get blown up was because I had paused to smoke a cigarette before entering a train station and was not in the direct line of the blast. It was a car bomb parked in front of the entrance I was headed towards and only 25 feet away. As I hit the ground I fully expected my life to end right there. Scary shit.
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. It means you can't trust anyone, not really.
I agree that the default assumption (not a false flag) is usually the case. Certainly the case with most of the UK and French ones with proximity. The one in the UK was IRA; also in London for The City bombing (though roughly a mile away), same for one in Warrenton, a bit closer to one in the Paris Metro. None anywhere near as close as your experience.

Also know from the 60's about "agitators" of uncertain origin trying to cause confrontation and violence. Pretty good eye for that in the US, no so good elsewhere. Mostly try to keep a low profile. Only, once by chance teargassed in Europe.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. True, but then life is all about balancing probabilities
I've also had a few close calls with purely accidental risks, like drowning or being close to a lightning strike. For that matter, I suffer from vertigo so I don't even trust myself when it comes to cliffs and the roofs of anything higher than a single-story building. What're you gonna do :shrug:
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. IF they were anything like they were portrayed ....
in the movie, they were flat out scumbags ...

VERY poignant movie, and I was left with ZERO appreciation for them ...
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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. same here but it did make me see why the RAF existed...
I'm not saying they were heroes.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've always been amused by the Red Army Faction sharing its
acronym with the Royal Air Force.

(Not that it has anything to do with this.)

thanks - I'll keep an eye out for it.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. My College-Age Daughter Loved It
I think it's on Netflix "Watch Instantly." Will have to add it to the queue.
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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I watched it on HBO or maybe Starz...
I forget which one.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I saw it recently on Showtime or HBO.
Interesting.

Moritz Bleibtreu plays Andreas Baader. They pack a lot of bombs and stuff into the movie and don't really take sides, they just show what happens. I remmeber hearing the names on the news when I was a kid here in the US, because the names were "funny" but didn't know that they were socialists trying to keep the leftover Fascists from taking over again.


Bleibtreu plays the Sultan Malikshah in one of my favorite movies: THe Keeper:The Legend of Omar Khayyam. IMNSHO, a movie that EVERYBODY should see!!
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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. at that time the German govt was full of ex-Nazis...
Even down to the local level. That's not exaggerated by any means.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Nation had an article on the Baader Meinhof gang recently.
Edited on Mon Mar-22-10 03:13 PM by Jim__
It was written by an Italian, Diego Gambetta, who makes some comparisons between the Baader Meihof gang and the Red Brigades. There are some interesting insights into the people involved. An excerpt:

On April 20, 1998, Reuters in Cologne received a letter mailed from Chemnitz, near the border between Germany and the Czech Republic. It read, in part: "Nearly 28 years ago, on May 14, 1970, the RAF was born in a liberation action. Today we end this project. The urban guerrilla battle of the RAF is now history." A bizarre coincidence: April 20, 1998, was the 109th anniversary of Adolf Hitler's birth.

The typewritten letter was anonymous and eight pages long--conciseness seldom being a virtue of violent extremists, even in the throes of dissolution. It was authenticated by the police on the basis of its style and paper. (Both had been used in previous communiqués by the group.) It also bore the group's emblem, a five-pointed star, with "RAF" (Rote Armee Fraktion, or "Red Army Faction") inscribed over a drawing of a Heckler & Koch submachine gun, a German-made weapon used by the military of the very state against which the RAF had declared war. The group had also been dubbed the Baader-Meinhof Gang by the media, after two of its main protagonists, Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhof. (The press spotlighted Meinhof because she was a well-known journalist before she went underground.) As Stefan Aust explains in Baader-Meinhof, the Gang had intended to adorn its emblem with the image of a Kalashnikov, the Russian assault rifle and symbol of liberation movements around the world. Instead, it made a mistake that stuck.

By the time the letter arrived at the Reuters Cologne bureau, the RAF's weapons had already been silent for seven years, since its assassination in Dusseldorf, on April 1, 1991, of Detlev Rohwedder, the head of the agency overseeing the privatization process in the former East Germany. A year later, in a letter mailed to Agence France-Presse, the RAF announced that it was suspending its guerrilla campaign and in return was asking for the release of its jailed comrades. This decision, the letter said, was due to a change of strategy after the fall of the Berlin Wall and disintegration of the Soviet bloc. It was also a response to the latest moves by Justice Minister Klaus Kinkel, who had indicated that the authorities might consider releasing RAF members.

The state kept its promise. It even released Irmgard Moeller, a member of the original Gang, despite American opposition and the lack of any signs of repentance on her part. Forty-seven years old when she left prison in 1994, Moeller had been serving a life sentence for participating in the 1972 bomb attack on the European headquarters of the US armed forces in Heidelberg that left three GIs dead. She was also a survivor of the infamous night of October 17, 1977, when her RAF comrades Baader, Gudrun Ensslin and Jan-Carle Raspe died in Stammheim prison in an apparent coordinated suicide. Moeller was found with several stab wounds in the region of her heart. Contrary to the official account of the night, she maintains they were not self-inflicted and that there was no suicide pact.

more ...


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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. The press reported that the police shot first. Would our press say such things?
I don't believe they even care anymore. It is just about keeping the corporations happy. And the corporations need a friendly smiley form of fascism.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Great movie, I was left with impression that Andreas Baader was a
sociopath who was in it for his own fucked up reasons. I've read that from his interviews he seemed pretty ignorant and could not really articulate what he supposedly stood for.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. My wife and I saw it here in German last year
She is a social worker, and brushed shoulders with some of this kind of people during her days as a social worker
in Berlin, including one of the the lawyers who defended them a few years later.

Some of them started out as frustrated, sincere social reformers, some of them were outright violent in their own right.
But they were, as it turned out, both isolated in their own little sub-culture and manipulated by some powers in the East,
for whom they were very convenient. My wife lived in Germany through this period, and I narrowly escaped getting blown up
by a bomb they set off at the Frankfurt airport. I just don't feel any of them were heroes. One of them who survived and
did his time now comes on the talk shows, and while he doesn't repudiate their cause, he now is of the opinion that they
whipped themselves into a frenzy of violence that was no longer under control. Instead of a political movement, they became
a violence movement where the violence became more important than their reason for committing it. That's when they started
to lose. That's the tragedy I think the film tried to explore.
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texasleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. Good movie.
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