Why aren't you a radical?

[mdmc]

You know that only radicals would ever vote for David Cobb or Ralph Nader. Especially in a swing state. We are not radicals at DU, we are big tent Democrats.

My question to DU is this - why aren't you a radical? It could be phrased other ways, like why do still have faith in the democratic party? Or why do you support {insert cool Dem name here} when they support the drug war, or Iraq war, or free trade (or whatever progressive issue you cherish)....

Most of my buddies have given up on mainstream politics. They have turned to social groups, like www.clearwater.org , little league, www.riverpool.com , the church, local anti-poverty groups, soup kitchens, community art groups, NORML, Code Pink, or Women in Black to sow their political activities in.

They always ask me why I am still active in the Dem party (especially since the local Dem party in all very conservative).

For me it is simple. County Legislature Chris Eauchis (supports universal health care and solar energy - even created a solar car club at our high school) and NYSCD #22 and #19 - Maurice Hinchey and John Hall! These guys are way too cool for school and make me proud to be a Dem.

On the 2008 tip I guess I gotta go Kucinich. I like Edwards campaign enough, but it seems like everyone is running to be Hillary's VEEP, including Edwards. So I figure I'll support Kucinich and hope that the progressives can somehow influence Clinton.

So what about you? Where do you find your hope and inspiration within the big tent?

[Coyote_Bandit]

1. Politics

is inherently practical. Not idealogical. It is all about what works.

[mdmc]

2. elect-ability

the great Satan, lol :)

[ThomCat]

6. Tell that to the neo-cons. They changed the political landscape

to make their sick fantasies seem acceptable. They didn't give a damn about practicality, and they took over government for most of the last 26 years.
x(

This is why our country has swung so far to the right. Only the left gets timid and insists on compromising and giving ground to the other side.

[Coyote_Bandit]

21. Perhaps

idealogy was nothing more than a practical tool for the neo-cons to assume power. For them that was a practical aspiration. Idealogy was nothin more than a marketing tool used to motivate voting behavior.

The religious right in particular has been manipulated to support the neo-con agenda. Meanwhile most of the goals of the religious right have been largely ignored. Some of the things they have long opposed (lotteries and gambling for instance) have become quite common.

Idealogy is also a tool used to divide and conquer opponents. Something about a house divided....

[ThomCat]

23. Nice words, but not very practical.

Ideology guides actions. Ideology determines intent. If you don't have any ideology at all then you don't believe in anything.

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

You can dis "ideology" but the right has absolutely proven that standing for something gives you power. Moderates rarely take a stand for much of anything.

Moderates are essential, but you need the radicals to determine what the moderates are trying to achieve. You need people standing up for the goal at the far end so that the moderates don't think their little compromises are the goal.

[Coyote_Bandit]

32. Ideology

has its place and theoretically defines a broad set of values and guiding principles. Problem is that exists in theory. And sometimes values are sacrificed and compromised to achieve practical ends. Machiavellian isn't it?

Ideology guides actions? Sorry. I have to disagree. There is no better test of the values, priorities and vision than than how money is obtained and used. That is a very practical test.

Intent is implied by the circumstances and consequences of conduct. Only the person engaged in such conduct possibly comprehends the intent of such conduct. Even then, there are often motivating and contributing factors that go unrecognized.

[TahitiNut]

44. Indeed. After all, look at the GOP. What would have happened if they were extreme ideologues?

Whoops! :blush: Bad example. :dunce:


I'll never understand how blind centrists can ignore the elephants in the room.

[Radical Activist]

3. Its easier for a radical to get elected as a Democrat

than run as a Green a complain about how unfair the system is after each loss.

I'm supporting the former Alinsky-style community organizer and civil rights lawyer for President. The last thing we need is another Clinton.

[ThomCat]

4. I am a radical.

I believe that we should have healthcare for everyone.

I believe that we should tax the rich far more than the poor.

I believe that large corporations are the greatest evil in the world today because they exist solely to suck the wealth and resources out of every available situation, and they have the wealth and power to twist laws to their own benefit.

I believe that it's a crime that we're opening our borders to "free trade" and the movement of capital while trying to slam down fences to block people.

I think that cleaning and protecting the environment and expanding civil rights should be two of our biggest priorities.

I think we need constitutional amendments guaranteeing equal rights for women, and guaranteeing privacy.

I think corporations should be prohibited from getting involved in politics.

[PreacherCasey]

7. people (life, in general) over money = radical

guilty

[TheBaldyMan]

28. that's not radical TC, that's plain common sense n/t

[ThomCat]

29. I happen to think so too, but we keep hearing that these goals

are impractical, unrealistic, flights of fancy, etc. Apparently, these are all really radical concepts.
:shrug:

[illinoisprogressive]

5. I have long grown out of my radical stage that got nowhere.

After you live life awhile you learn that being angry and radical is like a mouse on a wheel. You go round and round and get nowhere.
I finally learned to get smart and effect change from within. I worked for the government and social service. I made a difference and lives better. Being radical I did nothing but, make me miserable.
If you want to make a difference and change you learn to work within the system and to make changes and differnces a little at a time.
I have long believed in the democratic party. since i was 12. I always disliked business and republicans.
My personal hero is FDR. I discovered him indepth in my 20s and it made a difference in my outlook and mood. I realized that you can make change more effective by working with and not against.
That is one reason I support who I do. I get that FDR feeling from him.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Cause I Consider Extremist Idealism To Be Far More Dangerous Than Practicality.

It's like refusing to undergo treatment for fatal cancer because the treatment doesn't also cure tooth decay, heal scars, clear acne and relieve back pain, and standing on extremist idealistic principle declaring that until there is a cure for the fatal cancer that treats EVERYTHING ELSE, you refuse to undergo the treatment. Pretty ignorant and dangerous line of thinking in my opinion.

[ThomCat]

9. We absolutely need radicals because

it's the radicals on both sides that determine where the moderates are. Moderates, by definition, possition themselves half way between the radicals on each side. If we don't have radicals anchoring the left, then our moderates keep moving right.

Moderates need radicals to define how far we can see and how far we can try to reach. Then the moderates can compromize to try to achieve some of that. But without radicals, moderates are just people who don't really stand up for anything.

[dave_p]

10. I thought we were

DU seems pretty radical to me. Sometimes it does the big tent thing too. That's ok.

Community groups are great, but if government is run by inhuman creeps you know somebody somewhere's getting screwed badly, whether it's in the next state or half a world away.

Taking care of the neighborhood just isn't enough. Change needs to be national and to extend to dealings with the rest of the world. That's why sometimes you need to be inside the tent.

[saltpoint]

11. I like Petula Clark AND Lou Reed.

Where does that leave me?

[EFerrari]

13. LOL!

:rofl:

Counting Crows?

[saltpoint]

15. I'm the chief beneficiary of our frequent exchanges today, sfexpat2000.

Counting Crows works for me, too. Also I was shocked very pleasantly to hear how polished and sure-footed the Goo-Goo Dolls were when they opened for a Kerry rally in Tampa in 2000 -- a few days before the election.

I'll take the Dead doing "Uncle John's Band," the Rachmaninoff 2nd piano concerto, Janis Joplin with "Me & Bobby McGee," The Who's "Behind Blue Eyes," Laura Nyro's "Captain for Dark Mornings," Livingston Taylor's "Lost in the Love of You," Duke Ellington's Paris concerts, and anything Joni Mitchell has ever recorded.

The firebelchers in political circles think I'm too tame and the old school adepts think I'm too wild.

I love Irish setters. That is more definitional than any of the political labels.

[EFerrari]

16. If we are the new center, then the kids will be fine Cheers.

[saltpoint]

19. -- -- Ah. That is a good dog. I can tell.

:hi: :thumbsup:

[mdmc]

39. Goldens and Yellow Lab people unite

NOW!
:)

[EFerrari]

12. I am a radical if by "radical" you mean someone who tries to live

their values and not cave to that day's news bite or that day's talking points.

And yes, I push back when the Democrats seem to me to cave on issues that are important to me.

For these times, that is radical. And that's fine with me.

No label can equal the harm of a government that has slipped loose of the slender democracy we had in the first place.

It's ironic, though, that those of us who defend human rights and social justice are called "radicals" when the real radicals are in the Oval Office, unelected and so far, above the law.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. OK. Private businesses, even very large private businesses, should be allowed to exist.

The larger, the most closely watched, of course.

Un-radical enough fer ya?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. I'm not a radical - I'm an Anarchist.

I've been a Democrat since 1966, usually hold my nose and vote for the Dem as the lesser of two evils. But, on occasion the nose holding is just too painful.

[tavalon]

18. I am extremely left

but I am also pragmatic. I caucus with the Democrats because we are under a two party system and the other party is far more corrupt than this party and most if not all of their points of view are from the right. Were multiple parties to become viable, I suppose I would be a socialist green. That is not where we are so I stick with the group in which I can have the most say.

[NNN0LHI]

20. I am a radical pragmatist n/t

[EFerrari]

24. Well, duh.

:rofl:

[murloc]

22. I am what I am.

As are all of us.

Its kinda like asking why someone is gay. They are because thats what they are.

I don't support a candidate or position because its radical or not. It support it because I agree with the position or person.

[EFerrari]

25. "I am what I am." Isn't that what Satan said in "Paradise Lost"?

:evilgrin:

[murloc]

26. lol yea I guess he did

But so did Popeye :)

Hopefully, Im somewhere in between lol

[EFerrari]

27. Or maybe Milton's Satan was an early democrat.

:rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

30. I'm a free radical

:D

[Blue_Tires]

36. "Too many free radicals. That's your problem. "

James Bond: "Free radicals," sir?

M: Yes. They're toxins that destroy the body and the brain, caused by eating too much red meat and white bread and too many dry martinis!

James Bond: Then I shall cut out the white bread, sir.

M: Oh, you'll do more than THAT, 007. From now on you will suffer a strict regimen of diet and exercise; we shall PURGE those toxins from you!

James Bond: Shrublands?

M: You got it!

[Rainscents]

31. I'm radical!!!

Don't mean, I don't have brain to figure out how to vote! I voted for Gore and Kerry!

[Madspirit]

33. I'm a Radical

Have been since the Viet Nam war. I'm actually a Social Democrat. I just know that it's NOT armchair politics. It's a real world and real people have to live in it. This country is full of poor, unemployed, disenfranchised, homeless, hungry and uninsured. I think of THEM when I vote being as I am unemployed and uninsured and I have been homeless and hungry. Voting third party is what armchair philosophers do...who have never been hungry.
Lee

[Kelly Rupert]

34. Because I'd rather fix the world than get my kicks bitching about it. nt

[MisterP]

35. because I weep for the wealthy?

because MLK and Gandhi are scary OUTSIDERS? (which is why Blacks can't vote and India's still British--their radical evil scared off the imaginary Security Moms of the 40s and 60s)
because a little (well, a big) war continuance is okay, as long as both parties get a cut?
(all this is in complete sarcasm, I assure you)

[pnwmom]

37. I am suspicious of "true believers" of any stripe.

Life is more complicated than any of the radicals on the left or the right seem willing to acknowledge.

[LSK]

38. 30 Something Dems, CSPAN, Right now

Kendrick Meek, Tim Ryan, Debbie Wasserman Schultz kick ass!

[Edweird]

40. Dude... ...I'm like........totally radical.......for sure.

Seems like the more I think I know the more I find I don't
Every answer opens up so many questions
Anarchy sounds good to me then someone asks, "Who'd fix the sewers?"
"Would the rednecks just play king of the neighborhood?"
How many liberators really want to be dictators?
Every theory has its holes when real life steps in
So how do we feed and make room for all the people crowded on our earth?
And transfer all that wealth from the rich to those who need it?
Where do ya draw the line?
Where do ya draw the line?
I'm not telling you I'm asking you
Ever notice hard line radicals can go on start trips too?
Where no one's pure and right except themselves
"I'm cleansed of the system." ('Cept when my amp needs electric power)
Or-"The Party Line says no. Feminists can't wear fishnets."
You wanna help stop war? Well, we reject your application
You crack too many jokes And you eat meat
What better way to turn people off than to twist ideas for change
into one more church that forgets we're all human beings
Where do ya draw the line?
I'm not telling you I'm asking you
In Toronto someone blew up a cruise missile warhead plant
10 slightly hurt, 4 million dollars damage
Why not destroy private property when it's used against you and me
Is that violence? Or self-defense? You tell me.
Where do ya draw the line
I'm not telling you I'm asking you

Where do you draw the line, by The Dead Kennedys

I don't think of Nader voters as radicals, more like a$$holes that enabled this disaster for the past 6 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamish_Five

[mdmc]

42. Thanks for the lyrics

:kick:

[jollyreaper2112]

41. I'm a radical moderate

So fuck you for disagreeing with me though I really don't care one way or the other.

[mdmc]

43. thats not nice

wow

[mdmc]

45. joementum rocks!

:toast: to the radical moderate!