So I have to know: Are "progressives" still willing to sit on their hands in November

[Gman]

and turn Congress over to some of the most absolutely vile of human beings on the face of the planet? Are progressives willing to sit on their hands and allow those that called Rep. Lewis the N word, or yelled homophobic slurs at Rep Barney Frank to control Congress? Will progressives turn over Congress to the hate that we all saw and watched on CSPAN over the weekend? Are progressives willing to let teabaggers have it all?

Or will progressives understand that the work on fixing and enhancing health care reform and banking reform and other very important legislation is an ongoing work in progress and support the Democratic Party?

[Texasgal]

1. Not this progressive...

I'll be in the trenches trying to secure our future. :dem:

[ixion]

2. LOL

"Pick us, we suck a little bit less than the other guy!" :rofl:

What a tired excuse. I'll be working for REAL CHANGE!

[cali]

3. I don't think my dem rep or senator suck at all.

not even a little bit.

[ixion]

7. good for you.

[karynnj]

16. You've got great ones!

I have a Republican representative, whose family has been in NJ politics for hundreds of years.

[MineralMan]

22. Nor mine. Betty McCollum, Al Franken, and to a lesser extent

Amy Klobuchar. In November, we'll replace Michele Bachmann with a Democrat, too.

[Threedifferentones]

94. I am sick and tired of the Democratic party.

The only things in Washington I am more sick and tired of are Republicans and the idea that they are the only other choice. Those things got HCR that wastes money on the assumption that insurance companies must profit or the system is flawed, EVEN IF THOSE INSURANCE COMPANIES CAN'T CUT IT WITHOUT FEDERAL HELP.

I will work my ass off for 3rd party candidates because that is what the future requires.

[MUAD_DIB]

21. How will ou do that? Vote Green?

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

24. I thought you were trying to find a way to move out of the USA.

How will you work for change if you do that?

[Renew Deal]

37. I want other people to vote for Democrats. But can you please stay home!

PLEASE!

[ecstatic]

58. And your post is a great example of why it takes so long for us to get things done

and why certain things may NEVER get done. Fairweather fauxgressives ---hopefully you'll be irrelevant soon (if not already). The rest of us who live in reality will keep fighting for REAL progress.

[sabrina 1]

90. Me too! n/t

[daleanime]

4. So we not worth listening to....

you just want to know it we'll follow orders?

[Lerkfish]

81. seems to be the message of the day -- some are taking this bill as a mandate

to tell progressives to shut up.

[sabrina 1]

89. As if they could do that! Lol!

I'll be working to help change Congress so that we can actually call it a Democratic Congress again.

Lists are available of those who fought to kill the PO and those who are up for re-election will have challengers. I hope to be able to help real Progressives get elected in November by supporting real Democrats in the primaries.

Also no money to the DNC or any of their pacs. Donations directly to candidates, like Marcy Winograd who will be fighting the DLC Machine within the party, Rahm et al, to unseat Blue Dog, War Monger, DLCer Jane Harman. The Democratic Party, including members of Congress, are supporting the Blue Dog, so people like Winograd who is a great liberal candidate will need a lot of help.

One DLCer at a time. It will take time I know, but when the party has a majority of real Democrats representing the people, then we will get some real Health Care Reform rather Insurance Reform.

[daleanime]

98. Like that would happen!

:hippie:

[whatchamacallit]

5. Guilt this!

:eyes:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. Who said anything about sitting on hands?

I always vote -- I never sit out an election. And, as always, I will vote for my most progressive option on the ballot. Some times that is a Democrat (as in Boxer), but sometimes it is not. :shrug: I will also be supporting Progressive/Liberal condidates in other races across the country in any way I can.

[Iggo]

63. Nobody did.

He's making it up.

[Fading Captain]

8. Hell no. And watch what they do in August, too

The whorporate dems are gonna get primaried.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. I'll be voting for the most Progressive, anti-war, candidates on the ballot.

Even if I have to them in. But, I'm not going to waste my votes on merely "not as bad" candidates.

[Echo In Light]

10. +1000

[ncliberal]

11. +1. nt

[Tippy]

17. You don't care about keeping Democrats in the majority?

[galileoreloaded]

19. Please define "Democrat"?? Your version. n/t

[Tippy]

34. I know I am a Progressive Liberal

I let others define them selves with their votes, but if their votes are not exactly what I want, I will vote for the lesser of to evils because I know what we will get in return....A Bush, Palin, etc. etc. etc. and I sure don't want that...What the hell good is principles then?

[galileoreloaded]

54. Principles are just that. I don't practice conditional ethics, but I understand those who do. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. If they want to stay in the majority they have to earn votes, not demand them.

It's their job to convince the people to vote for them. We aren't obliged to vote for them if they fail to do so.

[Tippy]

33. The fact of the matter today givew or take one or two

We have 435 Representatives in Congress and apx 82 are Progressive ...435 minus 82 leaves 353....my point is we must elect more progressives, many more to be exact, but until we do get enough are we going to give the majority to the Republicans. What we MUST DO is work together and recruit progressives if we fail to get enough we should not, stand on our individual principles and hand the election to Republicans.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Obviously, your principles and mine differ.

I'm not "giving" the Republicans anything. The Democrats in the administration are doing that.

The candidates are obliged to go to the voters for their votes. I'm under no obligation to vote for candidates I disagree with because I disagree with them less than other candidates. If the Democrats want my vote they can have it, but I'm not about to waste it on candidates I that are "not as bad".

I'm no longer willing to play the "work within the system" game because the system is corrupt.

I've been a Democrat since 1965, but I owe it no fealty, nor my vote.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[Tippy]

70. Here is one of my favorite quotes

"I've always said that in politics, your enemies can't hurt you, but your friends will kill you."
Ann Richards

And here is one I don't want to see happen

"We will lose on legislation. But we will win the message war every day, and every week, until November 2010. Our goal is to bring down approval numbers for Pelosi and for House Democrats. That will take repetition. This is a marathon, not a sprint."
-- Rep. Patrick McHenry (R-NC), quoted by the National Journal, on the new Republican strategy.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

74. One of mine.

"The Fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will applaud the Fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The Liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty for turning you in to the Fascists."

SDS saying.

[Karmadillo]

100. That about sums it up. Thanks for posting.

nt

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

91. I think that's exactly what the commenter cares about.

It's become clear that we have an awful lot of pretend 'democrats' in Congress, the kind that fought to kill the PO eg, and who vote for war funding consistently etc. They need to go, and I think the commenter plans on working hard to get rid of them. I agree and will be doing the same thing.

You don't care about having DLC Dinos infiltrating the Democratic Party, making it impossible to end these wars and stop torture, and spying on the American people, not to mention holding war criminals accountable? Bailing out Wall ST and Private Insurance? Or maybe you can join us and start working on getting some real Democrats in Congress which would make it easier to get some real change regarding war etc.

[bigwillq]

26. ....

:thumbsup:

[Mari333]

68. [phone]

[Political Heretic]

79. We're done being bullied by the politics of fear.

It's amazing how great the center is at that right-wing bullshit.

[readmoreoften]

96. +1. If you want to save us from the Right, stop appeasing the right and start fighting them.

Be 1/4 as boldly Left as Bush was Right and I'll vote for them. I'll take my "retarded" vote elsewhere, thanks.

[dkf]

12. Any obstacle to a public option must be primaried and booted out.

Obama's hand must be forced or he must be out too.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. Progressives will not. People who only claim to be progressives will.

Elections are never a choice of lesser evils, but a choice of the greater good.

[Bryn]

14. Not this Progressive

I cannot wait to vote Blanche Lincoln OUT! Halter IN! She's my senator here in Arkansas.

[FredStembottom]

15. There is only one way to bring Progressive change to this country...

.... primary threats to overly comfortable, likely corrupt Democrats.

Just a couple of successful primary challenges to the worst of the DINOs can make hundreds of other Democrats remember that there is a D by their names.

And central to this one-and-only possible way of getting Progressive reform is to re-group after the primaries and vote straight-line Democrat.

In this country, only a majority party has any power at all.

[Toasterlad]

47. If You Continue To Vote For Democrats Regardless Of Their Position, They Have No Incentive To Change

The only way to get more progressives is to refuse to vote for anything else. It's that fucking simple.

[FredStembottom]

51. I agree.

In the primaries.

Same thing.

Only once we have more Progressives elected there will still be a party _in power_ for them to be a part of.

And don't gloss over what I said before: just two or three primary wins by real Progressives will make dozens more fearful enough to act like Democrats - that is: Progressives.

[Toasterlad]

75. Primaries, Schrimaries

If the Democrats know that they have your vote in the general no matter who they throw up there, THEY HAVE NO INCENTIVE TO OFFER A CREDIBLE PROGRESSIVE CHOICE. Real progressives like Dennis Kucinich get marginalized precisely because the Democrats have been able to go "Republicans! Boo!" and get the sheep to toe the party line.

The Democracts have offered absolutely NOTHING but "lesser of two evils" for over 30 years. That will never change as long as people are willing to "hold their nose" and vote for whatever.

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

[damntexdem]

18. No, it hurts my fingers too much. I guess I'll go campaign for Dems.

And against the GOP scumbag who purports to be my 'representative' and who voted against HCR at every turn.

[demodonkey]

20. I'm running for PA Democratic State Committee -- IN MAY. So are a lot of other progressives. nt

[newspeak]

27. I'll be voting for any progressive on the ballot

Damn, too bad I'm not in your state, I'd vote for you!

[demodonkey]

55. Thanks anyway, keep up the good work in your state! :-) nt

[Raineyb]

28. Why do people always blame the voters as though the politicians

are entitled to their votes? You have it exactly backwards. The politicians better get working to show the people that there's more than a dime's worth of difference between the parties. And it better be bloody memorable since the corporations will be allowed to dump huge amounts of money into commercials pushing their preferred candidates.

[Toasterlad]

48. [phone]

[treestar]

84. This meme makes sense at first, but then think about it

You're always going up against the other voters.

You can vote for the Socialist Worker's Party but it just has to be big enough to have a chance at winning something or it ends up a vote for the Rs. The Rs could say the same - there are people who waste their vote on the Libertarian party and end up as a vote for the Ds.

The only way to deal with this reality is perhaps to use the third party votes on lower level offices and keep voting D for the higher offices. This kind of thing goes nowhere from the top down.

[paulk]

29. I don't know, really...

I haven't seen this level of apathy amongst my liberal friends out here in the real world since 1999.

I've had a difficult time even getting anyone interested in voting in our contested Senate primary here (Romanoff vs Bennet).

People have been so disillusioned by the last year (bank bailouts, afghanistan, health care reform - and the continuing crap economy) that they've stopped paying attention.

It's quite troubling, actually.


----------

The argument that the Democrats are the lesser of two evils might work this fall - but it's getting old. It's always the same argument, election after election. Many of the people I know bought into the idea of real change - and they're not happy.

[newspeak]

32. maybe that's the problem with our two party system

Over one hundred years ago, the two parties were playing the "good cop, bad cop" game--nepotism was rampant, robber barons, corruption-and some of the people got kinda of tired of the same shite. California and Wisconsin both were influenced by the progressive movement. Other countries have various parties, and the people are represented by party percentage in the parliament. I'm kind of feeling jealous about now-we basically only have two choices, and sometimes, the choices become "the lesser of two evils" which really doesn't help anyone, accept the monied interests.

We have no obligation to support those who we believe defends the status quo against the majority of the American people. I believe voting is a civil responsibility and obligation--I've been voting since I was nineteen--but I will vote for the candidate that best represents mainstreet (instead of wall street), the one who best represents workers, communities, education and the needy over interests of corporations. And, who has a more sane approach to global diplomacy without (oil) corporate interests.

And, I agree with you--"the lesser of two evils" is getting old--it's still evil.

[dembotoz]

41. get out and vote yes--get out and work???

10 minutes some tueday yeah that is not problem--the polling place may even have a bake sale--ymmmmmm.

Question becomes then what about the time between now and then.

Will i fork over the XXX number of dollars to join the local party this year?
will i attend the next local party meeting tommorrow night???
Will i march in the 4th of july parades with the local party--I live in a very rw area--we are used to being booed when we march--am rather nervous this year about party memeber safety--especailly in one of the parades were alcohol seems to have folks pretty reved up before the parade starts. I ALWAYS march--usually with my youngest kid-who is now 14....
Will i spend my free time after work and weekends doing lit drops and such leading up to nov. Actually i do know on this one--yes pj if you run again and you are reading this I will be there....

to vote is obvious
it is the rest of the stuff.

[Oregone]

30. I haven't thought about it. I don't really give a damn

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

35. Do as I say or the puppy gets it! nt

[laughingliberal]

36. I think it's going to come down to what happens between now and then

I think if they see some progress in their lives they will come out to vote. If not, they will think it does not matter, anyway. I think if they keep seeing loophole riddled legislative attempts at reforms of Wall Street and other industries, they're not coming out.

[Prism]

38. The thing about Barney Frank is . . .

I really wish people would get half as worked up about the LGBT issues he supports as when a Republican calls him the f-word. Oh, absolutely, calling someone a fag is utterly vile. People get all in a froth when it happens. Worst thing ever.

But ask for support and pressure for DADT repeal and other gay-related topics that would tangibly improve millions of LGBT lives, and you could sell the silence and shushing sounds around here on the futures market.

Easy outrage is easy.

That said, I'll be voting in November because Barbara Lee is my representative and I adore her.

But no money and no legwork from me for other districts or candidates. This party doesn't deserve it. Oh, you want phone calls and canvassing? Maybe you should go ask all those centrists, moderates, and right-leaning independents you seem to like so much. When you spend a year calling me an asshole, it takes some fortitude to come asking me to give you a hand. Newp.

Plus, the gayTM is very closed at the moment.

[QC]

40. +1

[laughingliberal]

43. +1000

Nobody likes feeling used.

[Toasterlad]

46. I Wish BARNEY FRANK Would Get Half As Worked Up About LGBT Issues As He Should

He's a tepid advocate.

[Prism]

49. Oh, I know

Barney Frank isn't my favorite person, mainly because of the hand he had in the current financial collapse. His fingerprints are all over that one. He made shitty D.C. financial policy a bipartisan effort, and he's just a touch too close to the establishment when it comes to fierce advocacy of our issues (I'm thinking of his reactions last summer to the DOMA debacle in particular).

I just think the disconnect is jarring when people rise up in outrage because a Republican called a Democrat a fag, but when work, pressure, and support are required to actually help millions of LGBT people, those same outraged types start clearing their throats and explaining how they have other things to do.

[Toasterlad]

50. Agreed.

[Juche]

39. I don't think as much, no

Supposedly progressives getting organized for MA cut the loss of Coakley in half in just a few days of work.

But no, I think many dems are starting to realize (again) how dangerous/idiotic the opposition is and how important it is to keep them out of power.

[Toasterlad]

44. What Could Possibly Make You Think This Garbage Legislation Would Change Any Thinking Person's Mind?

I'm voting for true progressives this November, and in 2012. That's not "sitting on my hands". That's working to prevent future corporate giveaways like the fiasco that was just signed into law.

[western mass]

45. Thanks for the DLC party line

We'll see if progressives and liberals fall for it again.

[EFerrari]

53. "There was no mistaking that invitation."

lol

Sheesh, someone needs to take the DLC to charm school. Quickly.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Never. There is DLC scum to remove from office.

Personally, in November I'll be fine with voting for the likely candidates. And of course I'll help others in areas that have DLC Scum and other forms of half Republican hybrids to replace with actual liberal Democrats.
And about the sudden popularity of holding Barney Frank up as a banner, let me tell you this so you can tell your friends. Those ignorant fools screaming slurs on the steps of Congress are not half as offensive as educated politicians who make use of a sweeter lexicon as they explain why God wants them to maintain and expand discrimination against GLBT people. Understand that such politicians stand with the screaming fools in word, and most importantly, in action and in political position. You and your right wing friends need to understand that you are not 'with Barney' you are with the ones screaming at him, when you oppose equal rights for all. The President stands with the screamers, and he himself uses harmful and reductive language, just as they do. The larger vocabulary he uses does not alter nor mitigate his message, and it is the same as the man shouting slurs at Barney.
Chew on that. Add some " " for flavor.

[LWolf]

56. I never planned to "sit on my hands,"

and voting my conscience is not the same as "turning Congress over to" whatever enemy you perceive.

I have every intention of voting.

For every left-of-center candidate I can.

[TransitJohn]

57. This thread is flamebait.

Mods, why don't you lock it? This is not good for Democratic unity.

[TransitJohn]

59. flamebait

n/t

[timtom]

60. Hell no!

I will support and vote for every progressive I can.

[Individualist]

61. Bullying is such an effective tactic.

:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[grahamhgreen]

62. YES! Out of Iraqistan, end rendition, get us the public option, prosecute war crime, something real

[Greyhound]

64. Not sitting on anything, working to get the hell out of here before this shit

gets really ugly. You've pretty well sealed your fate and I intend to watch from a safe distance.

[ThomWV]

65. Show me a Primary Challenger and see what happens

[Citizen Kang]

66. I'll still vote

I'll vote for the most progressive candidate in the Democratic Primary. If he/she does not win the primary. I'll vote third-party.


I'm convinced now. There are only two wings of the Corporate Party of America. I'm not going to play their game anymore.

[Mari333]

67. Love the Green Party myself

[Hell Hath No Fury]

69. I reregistered today as a Green.

I have been a Dem since 1979. :( But, the time has come for me to move on. I'll vote for the D when it is someone I can truly support. I'll come back to the Dems as a Party member when (if?) they start represented liberal policy again.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[backscatter712]

71. Progressives, no. "Progressives", yes.

Methinks they doth protest too much.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. delete posted in wrong place.

[Mari333]

73. good one.

[BlooInBloo]

77. Well, the self-proclaimed "true progressives" still haven't taught us our lesson...

So I assume nothing but more teabagger affiliation from them until they're satisfied. Which means forever, presumably.

Thankfully people like Kucinich and Chomsky jumped off their idiot-boat.

(Though I am a bit distressed that I can't rip on Kucinich with the same gusto as I used to. Ah well... the sacrifices we all make...)

[Political Heretic]

78. I'm eager to support and work for those who support and work for me.

If you are worried that somehow that won't be enough to get establishment Democrats re-elected, I'd say that is both telling and tragic.

[Feron]

87. I completely agree.nt

[Zenlitened]

95. Good post.

:thumbsup:

[Lerkfish]

80. well, feeling kinda chipper, aren't we?

I find your post needlessly castigating.

nothing gets people on board with your more than being condescending and nasty to them .....

remember we voted in your president. There aren't enough centrists to do it on their own.

[mitchtv]

82. I have made my donation list`

Boxer, Jerry Brown,Gavin Newsome, Steve Pougnet(Dem challenge to Mary Bono). Nothing to DNC or it's sisters, DSSC, DCCC. They never help our locals,plus Kaine is a 'phobe

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[branders seine]

85. what progressive planned to sit on their hands?

I plan to work and vote for every progressive on the ballot.

[eridani]

86. What I am working on is insurgent Dem candidacies, period

Congressional Candidate Larry Kalb Calls Health Insurance Reform Bill a "Mixed Bag"


* FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE *

Contacts:
Larry Kalb Sharon Abreu
1-360-927-2729 1-360-376-5773
larry {at} kalbforcongress.com sharmuse {at} kalbforcongress.com
______________________
TUESDAY, MARCH 23, 2010

A VICTORY FOR THE MOST NEEDY
BUT ALSO A VICTORY FOR "POLITICS AS USUAL"

BELLINGHAM--Larry Kalb, candidate to replace Rick Larsen in Washington's Second Congressional District, declared today that the Health Insurance Reform legislation passed Sunday was a "mixed bag." Kalb understands why it passed because it "helps a lot of people ", but he claims that it also shows Congress is still "in the pocket of special interests."

"I'm delighted to see that children can no longer be denied coverage and that insurance plans will no longer carry arbitrary annual and lifetime spending limits", said Kalb. "There are many good things about this legislation, but it falls far short of reforming a broken system. This is a victory for health insurance companies and their lobbyists. It perpetuates Wall Street Medicine by forcing 32 million more Americans to buy into overpriced insurance plans. The insurance companies win. They don't care whether the premiums are partly subsidized by the government. They just gained 32 million new customers. Unfortunately, this is a massive taxpayer giveaway to the very industry that has caused the healthcare cost calamity."

Kalb stated that the bill does very little to bring healthcare costs into line. "Affordability is a huge issue for most Americans as well as many businesses, and many will have no choice but to pay the penalty which is lower than the premium." Nor does it greatly advance the cause of "equal access, equal care", a cause Kalb has been championing for years. "This reform at the very least needs competition from a low overhead, non-profit public plan. That's what the people want. Bills running thousands of pages will always do the bidding of special interests. Rep. Alan Grayson's refreshingly simple 4-page bill will allow any American to buy into Medicare at actual cost. It will fit in perfectly with the insurance exchanges and could actually be implemented soon, without the huge delay entailed in the current legislation. Why is Rick Larsen not among the co-sponsors of this bill?"

"Medicare for All is really the bare minimum we need," said Kalb. Every poll ever taken shows more Americans support a Medicare-For-All system than oppose it. And, 80% of we Democrats support it. "When I am in Congress, I will fight for quality health care for all. Every voter in my district, in fact every American, should have the same quality health care coverage as the members of Congress already enjoy.

[Tailormyst]

88. I will be voting for progressives who share my views on issues

I will be working for and donating to progressives who share my values. If you don't like my answer, then tough.

[L0oniX]

92. So I have to know: Are Dino and DLC ass nuggets going to continue to only serve the rich?

[JackDragna]

93. No, but here's what I'm willing to do.

I'm willing to vote for candidates who will actually represent liberal interests and vote for them. The Democrats don't deserve my vote for being the best of two bad options.

[ibegurpard]

97. you broke it, you bought it

[upi402]

99. Let the 'new dems' and DLCers who fucked the party up, fix it

I'm donating and volunteering to get bluedogs out in the primaries, but that's it. i'll vote and that's it.

[Moochy]

101. as usual the dlc's scummy minions have more influence here than is obvious

Fuck the DLC, Fuck Al From, Fuck Rahm Emmanuel, and fuck all the would-be opt-in DLC apparachniks here with hand puppet jobs.